Is your Rep Speed really an important factor in building muscle?
BarbellApprentice
Posts: 486 Member
I did not write this. Just passing along...
There’s so much confusion about this essential muscle building principle, that I wanted to dive in an take a closer look…
I bet you are confused right now about at least one of these questions...
“Should I be training fast?”
“Should my reps be explosive?”
"What is tempo?"
“What tempo should I use?”
“Should I vary my tempo?”
“How often should I vary tempo?”
“How much rest between sets?”
Don’t worry… it all comes down to this. There are 5 things you need to know...
5 things you need to know about tempo:
1) Light weights WILL make you weak.
2 ) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
3) If your goal is to constantly build muscle, you must vary tempo often. This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
5 ) If you’re training for hypertrophy(building muscle) Time Under Tension(TUT) is something that you MUST be aware of and optimize.
(These will all be explained below)
As you probably know, the body contains different muscle fiber types. For the sake of this article, lets keep it simple and say “fast twitch (IIa/IIb)” and “slow twitch (I)”.
The body uses Type II muscle fibers for anything requiring fast response, or heavy loads. If you throw a how bunch of weight on a bar, or lift your refrigerator, your body is going to use these muscle fibers.
If you’re lifting your beer to your mouth, or curling your arm to apply your hair gel, your body is using slow twitch fibers.
Fast twitch fibers may also sometimes be referred to as “high threshold” because of the simple fact that it takes a little more to get them to work. They’re not working unless you’re doing something fast, or heavy. Remember: fast and heavy are really the same thing as far as your muscles know! Muscles only know tension...
“Low threshold” fibers are the slow twitch fibers and are much less likely to grow. They’re really intended to perform simple, basic activities and things that are more endurance based. For instance, any sets that last longer than two minutes.
Now that you have a very basic understanding of how muscle work, I will tie in how this all applies to you, and explain the 5 points above.
1) Light weights WILL make you weak.
Using light weight too often actually slows the speed of neural firing and will slow the speed of muscular contraction. The end result is a weaker you. This is also what happens when you do cardio.
2) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
Many of you are familiar with the training method of “super slows”, pioneered in the 1990’s and known for creating obscene amounts of lactic acid, which many people believed correlated with muscle growth. Lactic acid is awesome but slow training may not be all is chalked up to be.
The logic was to increase TUT and therefore increase muscle growth. Well, could be effective, but will also make you weak as a kitten because of the same reasons mentioned above.
If you want to increase TUT, you are much better off using slow eccentrics (negatives) and maintaining explosive concentrics.
3) If your goal is to constantly be building muscle, you must vary tempo often.
This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
It is advantageous to change the rep tempo of your workouts every 3-6 weeks at minimum. More advanced athletes can changed it weekly or even daily. Some great examples for hypertrophy are 4010, 6010, 4111, 4021.
What does 4010 mean in a weight room?
4 is the eccentric portion or the negative.... 4 ONE THOUSAND, 3 ONE THOUSAND, 2 ONE THOUSAND, 1 ONE THOUSAND.
0 is the bottom portion in a stretched position. No pause, just touch, contract and go.
1 is the concentric or lifting portion. After ensuring the working muscle is engaged first, explode up.
0 is the contracted position. Get to the top, control the transition but never stop moving.
4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
You are actually 150% stronger on the eccentric phase of most lifts, than you are on the concentric. Eccentrics are also known to cause greater micro trauma to the muscle and the more muscle damage means your body must synthesize more protein to repair it!
But keep it mind that everything should be varied and periodized. Even a good thing can be overdone and in this case it is quite easy to do.
5) If you’re training for hypertrophy (building muscle) Time Under Tension (TUT) is something that you MUST be aware of and optimize.
The optimal amount of time under tension for building muscle is something that is very important to note and keep track of. If your sets are too short, you’re most likely building strength and doing little for building muscle. If they’re too long, you’ll be training a different set of muscle fibers and you wont be growing optimally.
From my experience, a forty second set is the optimal amount of TUT to build muscle. What does this mean?...
My favorite tempo is 4010, (five-second repetition) and eight reps per set (forty-second TUT). Try to stay around this TUT as often as possible.
Getting up to sixty seconds is also very acceptable and effective. Any less than thirty seconds and you’re likely building more strength than muscle. This is the amount of time a set lasts from the instant you begin moving a weight, to the time it stops. Optimal time under tension range for hypertrophy is thirty to sixty seconds a set.
It is also important to note that this TUT range is meant to refer to complete muscular failure or exhaustion within this time. This does not mean you stop a set that you could have easily extended well beyond sixty seconds just because the time range was up. If this is the case, its time to up the weight. Try to keep the weight as heavy as possible within this range.
Extended sets are an excellent way to take a muscle from perceived point of failure with a given weight, decrease the weight and continue the set. In this case, the extended TUT is very advantageous because there are numerous points of perceived muscular failure!
There’s so much confusion about this essential muscle building principle, that I wanted to dive in an take a closer look…
I bet you are confused right now about at least one of these questions...
“Should I be training fast?”
“Should my reps be explosive?”
"What is tempo?"
“What tempo should I use?”
“Should I vary my tempo?”
“How often should I vary tempo?”
“How much rest between sets?”
Don’t worry… it all comes down to this. There are 5 things you need to know...
5 things you need to know about tempo:
1) Light weights WILL make you weak.
2 ) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
3) If your goal is to constantly build muscle, you must vary tempo often. This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
5 ) If you’re training for hypertrophy(building muscle) Time Under Tension(TUT) is something that you MUST be aware of and optimize.
(These will all be explained below)
As you probably know, the body contains different muscle fiber types. For the sake of this article, lets keep it simple and say “fast twitch (IIa/IIb)” and “slow twitch (I)”.
The body uses Type II muscle fibers for anything requiring fast response, or heavy loads. If you throw a how bunch of weight on a bar, or lift your refrigerator, your body is going to use these muscle fibers.
If you’re lifting your beer to your mouth, or curling your arm to apply your hair gel, your body is using slow twitch fibers.
Fast twitch fibers may also sometimes be referred to as “high threshold” because of the simple fact that it takes a little more to get them to work. They’re not working unless you’re doing something fast, or heavy. Remember: fast and heavy are really the same thing as far as your muscles know! Muscles only know tension...
“Low threshold” fibers are the slow twitch fibers and are much less likely to grow. They’re really intended to perform simple, basic activities and things that are more endurance based. For instance, any sets that last longer than two minutes.
Now that you have a very basic understanding of how muscle work, I will tie in how this all applies to you, and explain the 5 points above.
1) Light weights WILL make you weak.
Using light weight too often actually slows the speed of neural firing and will slow the speed of muscular contraction. The end result is a weaker you. This is also what happens when you do cardio.
2) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
Many of you are familiar with the training method of “super slows”, pioneered in the 1990’s and known for creating obscene amounts of lactic acid, which many people believed correlated with muscle growth. Lactic acid is awesome but slow training may not be all is chalked up to be.
The logic was to increase TUT and therefore increase muscle growth. Well, could be effective, but will also make you weak as a kitten because of the same reasons mentioned above.
If you want to increase TUT, you are much better off using slow eccentrics (negatives) and maintaining explosive concentrics.
3) If your goal is to constantly be building muscle, you must vary tempo often.
This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
It is advantageous to change the rep tempo of your workouts every 3-6 weeks at minimum. More advanced athletes can changed it weekly or even daily. Some great examples for hypertrophy are 4010, 6010, 4111, 4021.
What does 4010 mean in a weight room?
4 is the eccentric portion or the negative.... 4 ONE THOUSAND, 3 ONE THOUSAND, 2 ONE THOUSAND, 1 ONE THOUSAND.
0 is the bottom portion in a stretched position. No pause, just touch, contract and go.
1 is the concentric or lifting portion. After ensuring the working muscle is engaged first, explode up.
0 is the contracted position. Get to the top, control the transition but never stop moving.
4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
You are actually 150% stronger on the eccentric phase of most lifts, than you are on the concentric. Eccentrics are also known to cause greater micro trauma to the muscle and the more muscle damage means your body must synthesize more protein to repair it!
But keep it mind that everything should be varied and periodized. Even a good thing can be overdone and in this case it is quite easy to do.
5) If you’re training for hypertrophy (building muscle) Time Under Tension (TUT) is something that you MUST be aware of and optimize.
The optimal amount of time under tension for building muscle is something that is very important to note and keep track of. If your sets are too short, you’re most likely building strength and doing little for building muscle. If they’re too long, you’ll be training a different set of muscle fibers and you wont be growing optimally.
From my experience, a forty second set is the optimal amount of TUT to build muscle. What does this mean?...
My favorite tempo is 4010, (five-second repetition) and eight reps per set (forty-second TUT). Try to stay around this TUT as often as possible.
Getting up to sixty seconds is also very acceptable and effective. Any less than thirty seconds and you’re likely building more strength than muscle. This is the amount of time a set lasts from the instant you begin moving a weight, to the time it stops. Optimal time under tension range for hypertrophy is thirty to sixty seconds a set.
It is also important to note that this TUT range is meant to refer to complete muscular failure or exhaustion within this time. This does not mean you stop a set that you could have easily extended well beyond sixty seconds just because the time range was up. If this is the case, its time to up the weight. Try to keep the weight as heavy as possible within this range.
Extended sets are an excellent way to take a muscle from perceived point of failure with a given weight, decrease the weight and continue the set. In this case, the extended TUT is very advantageous because there are numerous points of perceived muscular failure!
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Replies
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The point about TUT as a determinant of appropriate load is interesting. Good for my accessory lifts which aren't programmed as strictly as my main lifts (5/3/1).0
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If you're trying to prioritize hypertrophy then yes, TUT is going to be a big bang for the ATP buck.0
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I’ll try and be constructive but most of this is not very good is incomplete and is far too general. I think you have to remember the general audience here on MFP, this is far too complex for most. Not to mention that an “article” referencing bar-speed should not leave out load / intensity. I guarantee that somebody lifting 95% to 100% 1RM is not moving the bar slowly or without intensity, despite the fact that the bar is probably moving somewhat slow; Intensity and Tempo kind of go hand-in-hand.
First, the load (light / moderate / heavy) is really dependent upon the goal of your training. If somebody is just working on improving strength & stability, a recommended load is going to be 50% - 70% 1RM, depending on the individual; obviously 50% is very light. Additionally, there is much research available about low-intensity loads (<50%) being very effective in increasing muscle and strength (not maximal strength). Dr. Schoenfeld is probably the most current researcher to help publicize this work. Lastly, there are training methodologies that utilize Dynamic Effort lifting to maximize rate of force production, these loads are often “lighter”.Light weights WILL make you weak.
This is probably mostly true, though it’s not unheard of for a 2-sec concentric depending on training goal / purpose.2 ) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
Tempo is incredibly goal dependent and should only change and as the program or exercise prescription demands. Here is a general rule of thumb.3) If your goal is to constantly build muscle, you must vary tempo often. This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
4/2/1: Strength & Stabilization
2/0/2: Strength Endurance & Hypertrophy
**the # of sets, reps, intensity, and quantity of exercises are the main difference between SE & Hypertrophy**
As fast as can be controlled: Maximal Strength / Power training
- Something more for Plyometrics and Olympic Lifts
- Maximal Strength exercises (i.e. Squat, Bench) Should have a brief pause at the base of the eccentric.
**The above tempos are for general application and not all-encompassing by any means, as certain things like paused-reps even with max loads can be used but those are very specific and definitely not needed by most beginners. To get more granular than this is not overly important for most people, though I'm sure there are applications for some.
Heavy Eccentrics can be very good for strength & hypertrophy but not great for most beginners.4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
1. You need a good spotter so you don’t get hurt.
2. Greater injury potential, not good for in-season athletes, debatable for off-season athletes
3. They are harder to recover from, more draining
4. If a subject such as “eccentric” lifting is going to be introduced then it would be sensible to also discuss training frequency of eccentrics. Coincidentally. “Iron Radio” has a really good Podcast and recently discussed this topic.
Running a marathon would be a better example of slow-twitch muscle fibers.The body uses Type II muscle fibers for anything requiring fast response, or heavy loads. If you throw a how bunch of weight on a bar, or lift your refrigerator, your body is going to use these muscle fibers. If you’re lifting your beer to your mouth, or curling your arm to apply your hair gel, your body is using slow twitch fibers.
- 100-meter sprint: Fast Twitch dominant
- 5K: Slow Twitch dominant
While things like total TUT have their merits, if you’re sitting in the gym focused on tracking your TUT you’re probably less focused on the exercise which isn’t productive. In the grand scheme of things, to be strong and in-shape focusing on this is probably not overly important. It is at most, probably more of a hypertrophy thing, so if somebody is seriously into bodybuilding then it’s important. Something that just wants to be strong and in-shape, it’s of lesser relevance. Focus on what's most important and everything else will fall in-line.
My comments are not my own "bro-science" but largely based on the principles set by the National Academy of Sports Medicine.
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »I’ll try and be constructive but most of this is not very good is incomplete and is far too general. I think you have to remember the general audience here on MFP, this is far too complex for most. Not to mention that an “article” referencing bar-speed should not leave out load / intensity. I guarantee that somebody lifting 95% to 100% 1RM is not moving the bar slowly or without intensity, despite the fact that the bar is probably moving somewhat slow; Intensity and Tempo kind of go hand-in-hand.
First, the load (light / moderate / heavy) is really dependent upon the goal of your training. If somebody is just working on improving strength & stability, a recommended load is going to be 50% - 70% 1RM, depending on the individual; obviously 50% is very light. Additionally, there is much research available about low-intensity loads (<50%) being very effective in increasing muscle and strength (not maximal strength). Dr. Schoenfeld is probably the most current researcher to help publicize this work. Lastly, there are training methodologies that utilize Dynamic Effort lifting to maximize rate of force production, these loads are often “lighter”.Light weights WILL make you weak.
This is probably mostly true, though it’s not unheard of for a 2-sec concentric depending on training goal / purpose.2 ) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
Tempo is incredibly goal dependent and should only change and as the program or exercise prescription demands. Here is a general rule of thumb.3) If your goal is to constantly build muscle, you must vary tempo often. This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
4/2/1: Strength & Stabilization
2/0/2: Strength Endurance & Hypertrophy
**the # of sets, reps, intensity, and quantity of exercises are the main difference between SE & Hypertrophy**
As fast as can be controlled: Maximal Strength / Power training
- Something more for Plyometrics and Olympic Lifts
- Maximal Strength exercises (i.e. Squat, Bench) Should have a brief pause at the base of the eccentric.
**The above tempos are for general application and not all-encompassing by any means, as certain things like paused-reps even with max loads can be used but those are very specific and definitely not needed by most beginners. To get more granular than this is not overly important for most people, though I'm sure there are applications for some.
Heavy Eccentrics can be very good for strength & hypertrophy but not great for most beginners.4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
1. You need a good spotter so you don’t get hurt.
2. Greater injury potential, not good for in-season athletes, debatable for off-season athletes
3. They are harder to recover from, more draining
4. If a subject such as “eccentric” lifting is going to be introduced then it would be sensible to also discuss training frequency of eccentrics. Coincidentally. “Iron Radio” has a really good Podcast and recently discussed this topic.
Running a marathon would be a better example of slow-twitch muscle fibers.The body uses Type II muscle fibers for anything requiring fast response, or heavy loads. If you throw a how bunch of weight on a bar, or lift your refrigerator, your body is going to use these muscle fibers. If you’re lifting your beer to your mouth, or curling your arm to apply your hair gel, your body is using slow twitch fibers.
- 100-meter sprint: Fast Twitch dominant
- 5K: Slow Twitch dominant
While things like total TUT have their merits, if you’re sitting in the gym focused on tracking your TUT you’re probably less focused on the exercise which isn’t productive. In the grand scheme of things, to be strong and in-shape focusing on this is probably not overly important. It is at most, probably more of a hypertrophy thing, so if somebody is seriously into bodybuilding then it’s important. Something that just wants to be strong and in-shape, it’s of lesser relevance. Focus on what's most important and everything else will fall in-line.
My comments are not my own "bro-science" but largely based on the principles set by the National Academy of Sports Medicine.
2 of the 5 points clearly state that the goal is hypertrophy/building muscle. So you really just typed all that to say that if someone has a different goal then these points might not be as useful. Yea, that is a given, but thanks anyway.
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I dislike some of the absolute statements in this article but I'm in for now as this should hopefully turn into a good discussion.
You can achieve significant hypertrophy without significantly varying rep tempo, so in that regard I disagree with the claim that you must constantly vary tempo.
If the claim is that you must vary tempo in order to maximize growth potential then I'd be interested in seeing info on that.0 -
Sounds like too much thinking. I'm just going to dummy up and lift the weight-1
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The part that I find interesting and somewhat complex is that if you intentionally vary tempo in an effort to manipulate TUT you are potentially then reducing total training volume (by that I mean total poundage) and intuitively one would think that you could negatively effect hypertrophy if this is taken too far.
It's sort of a similar discussion to intentionally reducing rest time to increase metabolic stress. Cutting rest short could lead to increased metabolic stress but in doing so you're potentially chopping total training volume which leads to less mechanical tension.
It's probably a fairly complex interaction between factors signaling hypertrophy but in practice, manipulating those variables effects the other variables so in that sense I doubt it's clear cut.0 -
I believe Layne did a Vlog that covered this topic. Will see if I can find it.
Also, tagging to read the details.0 -
BarbellApprentice wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »I’ll try and be constructive but most of this is not very good is incomplete and is far too general. I think you have to remember the general audience here on MFP, this is far too complex for most. Not to mention that an “article” referencing bar-speed should not leave out load / intensity. I guarantee that somebody lifting 95% to 100% 1RM is not moving the bar slowly or without intensity, despite the fact that the bar is probably moving somewhat slow; Intensity and Tempo kind of go hand-in-hand.
First, the load (light / moderate / heavy) is really dependent upon the goal of your training. If somebody is just working on improving strength & stability, a recommended load is going to be 50% - 70% 1RM, depending on the individual; obviously 50% is very light. Additionally, there is much research available about low-intensity loads (<50%) being very effective in increasing muscle and strength (not maximal strength). Dr. Schoenfeld is probably the most current researcher to help publicize this work. Lastly, there are training methodologies that utilize Dynamic Effort lifting to maximize rate of force production, these loads are often “lighter”.Light weights WILL make you weak.
This is probably mostly true, though it’s not unheard of for a 2-sec concentric depending on training goal / purpose.2 ) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
Tempo is incredibly goal dependent and should only change and as the program or exercise prescription demands. Here is a general rule of thumb.3) If your goal is to constantly build muscle, you must vary tempo often. This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
4/2/1: Strength & Stabilization
2/0/2: Strength Endurance & Hypertrophy
**the # of sets, reps, intensity, and quantity of exercises are the main difference between SE & Hypertrophy**
As fast as can be controlled: Maximal Strength / Power training
- Something more for Plyometrics and Olympic Lifts
- Maximal Strength exercises (i.e. Squat, Bench) Should have a brief pause at the base of the eccentric.
**The above tempos are for general application and not all-encompassing by any means, as certain things like paused-reps even with max loads can be used but those are very specific and definitely not needed by most beginners. To get more granular than this is not overly important for most people, though I'm sure there are applications for some.
Heavy Eccentrics can be very good for strength & hypertrophy but not great for most beginners.4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
1. You need a good spotter so you don’t get hurt.
2. Greater injury potential, not good for in-season athletes, debatable for off-season athletes
3. They are harder to recover from, more draining
4. If a subject such as “eccentric” lifting is going to be introduced then it would be sensible to also discuss training frequency of eccentrics. Coincidentally. “Iron Radio” has a really good Podcast and recently discussed this topic.
Running a marathon would be a better example of slow-twitch muscle fibers.The body uses Type II muscle fibers for anything requiring fast response, or heavy loads. If you throw a how bunch of weight on a bar, or lift your refrigerator, your body is going to use these muscle fibers. If you’re lifting your beer to your mouth, or curling your arm to apply your hair gel, your body is using slow twitch fibers.
- 100-meter sprint: Fast Twitch dominant
- 5K: Slow Twitch dominant
While things like total TUT have their merits, if you’re sitting in the gym focused on tracking your TUT you’re probably less focused on the exercise which isn’t productive. In the grand scheme of things, to be strong and in-shape focusing on this is probably not overly important. It is at most, probably more of a hypertrophy thing, so if somebody is seriously into bodybuilding then it’s important. Something that just wants to be strong and in-shape, it’s of lesser relevance. Focus on what's most important and everything else will fall in-line.
My comments are not my own "bro-science" but largely based on the principles set by the National Academy of Sports Medicine.
2 of the 5 points clearly state that the goal is hypertrophy/building muscle. So you really just typed all that to say that if someone has a different goal then these points might not be as useful. Yea, that is a given, but thanks anyway.
You can build muscle (hypertrophy) without hypertrophy specific training variables. You should do some research on this stuff before you quote it. Additionally, if you're going to discuss Temp you must discuss intensity / load as they are related.
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Good video from Eric regarding the topic of TUT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRevyyFM82w
Still need to read the OP in more detail though
lol. Probably should do that before posting more vids. 0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »BarbellApprentice wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »I’ll try and be constructive but most of this is not very good is incomplete and is far too general. I think you have to remember the general audience here on MFP, this is far too complex for most. Not to mention that an “article” referencing bar-speed should not leave out load / intensity. I guarantee that somebody lifting 95% to 100% 1RM is not moving the bar slowly or without intensity, despite the fact that the bar is probably moving somewhat slow; Intensity and Tempo kind of go hand-in-hand.
First, the load (light / moderate / heavy) is really dependent upon the goal of your training. If somebody is just working on improving strength & stability, a recommended load is going to be 50% - 70% 1RM, depending on the individual; obviously 50% is very light. Additionally, there is much research available about low-intensity loads (<50%) being very effective in increasing muscle and strength (not maximal strength). Dr. Schoenfeld is probably the most current researcher to help publicize this work. Lastly, there are training methodologies that utilize Dynamic Effort lifting to maximize rate of force production, these loads are often “lighter”.Light weights WILL make you weak.
This is probably mostly true, though it’s not unheard of for a 2-sec concentric depending on training goal / purpose.2 ) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
Tempo is incredibly goal dependent and should only change and as the program or exercise prescription demands. Here is a general rule of thumb.3) If your goal is to constantly build muscle, you must vary tempo often. This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
4/2/1: Strength & Stabilization
2/0/2: Strength Endurance & Hypertrophy
**the # of sets, reps, intensity, and quantity of exercises are the main difference between SE & Hypertrophy**
As fast as can be controlled: Maximal Strength / Power training
- Something more for Plyometrics and Olympic Lifts
- Maximal Strength exercises (i.e. Squat, Bench) Should have a brief pause at the base of the eccentric.
**The above tempos are for general application and not all-encompassing by any means, as certain things like paused-reps even with max loads can be used but those are very specific and definitely not needed by most beginners. To get more granular than this is not overly important for most people, though I'm sure there are applications for some.
Heavy Eccentrics can be very good for strength & hypertrophy but not great for most beginners.4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
1. You need a good spotter so you don’t get hurt.
2. Greater injury potential, not good for in-season athletes, debatable for off-season athletes
3. They are harder to recover from, more draining
4. If a subject such as “eccentric” lifting is going to be introduced then it would be sensible to also discuss training frequency of eccentrics. Coincidentally. “Iron Radio” has a really good Podcast and recently discussed this topic.
Running a marathon would be a better example of slow-twitch muscle fibers.The body uses Type II muscle fibers for anything requiring fast response, or heavy loads. If you throw a how bunch of weight on a bar, or lift your refrigerator, your body is going to use these muscle fibers. If you’re lifting your beer to your mouth, or curling your arm to apply your hair gel, your body is using slow twitch fibers.
- 100-meter sprint: Fast Twitch dominant
- 5K: Slow Twitch dominant
While things like total TUT have their merits, if you’re sitting in the gym focused on tracking your TUT you’re probably less focused on the exercise which isn’t productive. In the grand scheme of things, to be strong and in-shape focusing on this is probably not overly important. It is at most, probably more of a hypertrophy thing, so if somebody is seriously into bodybuilding then it’s important. Something that just wants to be strong and in-shape, it’s of lesser relevance. Focus on what's most important and everything else will fall in-line.
My comments are not my own "bro-science" but largely based on the principles set by the National Academy of Sports Medicine.
2 of the 5 points clearly state that the goal is hypertrophy/building muscle. So you really just typed all that to say that if someone has a different goal then these points might not be as useful. Yea, that is a given, but thanks anyway.
You can build muscle (hypertrophy) without hypertrophy specific training variables. You should do some research on this stuff before you quote it. Additionally, if you're going to discuss Temp you must discuss intensity / load as they are related.
^ This is what I was getting at and Eric's video will cover this.
I'm currently of the opinion that rep tempo isn't something the majority of people really need to focus on provided that you're managing load/volume etc.
So just for example if you try to manipulate tempo artificially I would argue that you're forcing yourself to use lower loads. So you're reducing total training load by doing that.
Pretty sure Eric covers this in the video, I watched it a while ago which is probably what lead me to disregard tempo to begin with.
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »BarbellApprentice wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »I’ll try and be constructive but most of this is not very good is incomplete and is far too general. I think you have to remember the general audience here on MFP, this is far too complex for most. Not to mention that an “article” referencing bar-speed should not leave out load / intensity. I guarantee that somebody lifting 95% to 100% 1RM is not moving the bar slowly or without intensity, despite the fact that the bar is probably moving somewhat slow; Intensity and Tempo kind of go hand-in-hand.
First, the load (light / moderate / heavy) is really dependent upon the goal of your training. If somebody is just working on improving strength & stability, a recommended load is going to be 50% - 70% 1RM, depending on the individual; obviously 50% is very light. Additionally, there is much research available about low-intensity loads (<50%) being very effective in increasing muscle and strength (not maximal strength). Dr. Schoenfeld is probably the most current researcher to help publicize this work. Lastly, there are training methodologies that utilize Dynamic Effort lifting to maximize rate of force production, these loads are often “lighter”.Light weights WILL make you weak.
This is probably mostly true, though it’s not unheard of for a 2-sec concentric depending on training goal / purpose.2 ) Slow concentrics WILL make you weak.
Tempo is incredibly goal dependent and should only change and as the program or exercise prescription demands. Here is a general rule of thumb.3) If your goal is to constantly build muscle, you must vary tempo often. This is one of the best known ways to recruit different muscle fiber types (IA, IIA, IIB)
4/2/1: Strength & Stabilization
2/0/2: Strength Endurance & Hypertrophy
**the # of sets, reps, intensity, and quantity of exercises are the main difference between SE & Hypertrophy**
As fast as can be controlled: Maximal Strength / Power training
- Something more for Plyometrics and Olympic Lifts
- Maximal Strength exercises (i.e. Squat, Bench) Should have a brief pause at the base of the eccentric.
**The above tempos are for general application and not all-encompassing by any means, as certain things like paused-reps even with max loads can be used but those are very specific and definitely not needed by most beginners. To get more granular than this is not overly important for most people, though I'm sure there are applications for some.
Heavy Eccentrics can be very good for strength & hypertrophy but not great for most beginners.4) Heavy eccentrics WILL make you strong, AND big.
1. You need a good spotter so you don’t get hurt.
2. Greater injury potential, not good for in-season athletes, debatable for off-season athletes
3. They are harder to recover from, more draining
4. If a subject such as “eccentric” lifting is going to be introduced then it would be sensible to also discuss training frequency of eccentrics. Coincidentally. “Iron Radio” has a really good Podcast and recently discussed this topic.
Running a marathon would be a better example of slow-twitch muscle fibers.The body uses Type II muscle fibers for anything requiring fast response, or heavy loads. If you throw a how bunch of weight on a bar, or lift your refrigerator, your body is going to use these muscle fibers. If you’re lifting your beer to your mouth, or curling your arm to apply your hair gel, your body is using slow twitch fibers.
- 100-meter sprint: Fast Twitch dominant
- 5K: Slow Twitch dominant
While things like total TUT have their merits, if you’re sitting in the gym focused on tracking your TUT you’re probably less focused on the exercise which isn’t productive. In the grand scheme of things, to be strong and in-shape focusing on this is probably not overly important. It is at most, probably more of a hypertrophy thing, so if somebody is seriously into bodybuilding then it’s important. Something that just wants to be strong and in-shape, it’s of lesser relevance. Focus on what's most important and everything else will fall in-line.
My comments are not my own "bro-science" but largely based on the principles set by the National Academy of Sports Medicine.
2 of the 5 points clearly state that the goal is hypertrophy/building muscle. So you really just typed all that to say that if someone has a different goal then these points might not be as useful. Yea, that is a given, but thanks anyway.
You can build muscle (hypertrophy) without hypertrophy specific training variables. You should do some research on this stuff before you quote it. Additionally, if you're going to discuss Temp you must discuss intensity / load as they are related.
Neither I nor the article stated that you can't build muscle with something other than hypertrophy training. If you are going to participate, you need to stay away from straw men.0 -
Also, for the purposes of full disclosure. The article is by Ben Pakulski. He is an IFBB pro, so that is the realm/context here. Yes, he is hitting some very complicated and in depth topics as bullet points.
The points may not apply (or not as much) if you are more focused on performance (powerlifting, oly lifting, etc.). Also, the points may not apply for beginners who have not built a foundation.
0 -
I'd also have to agree with SS here. I've been in bodybuilding for the last 30 years and throughout my hypertrophy training, I've never really had to worry about tempo.I dislike some of the absolute statements in this article but I'm in for now as this should hopefully turn into a good discussion.
You can achieve significant hypertrophy without significantly varying rep tempo, so in that regard I disagree with the claim that you must constantly vary tempo.
If the claim is that you must vary tempo in order to maximize growth potential then I'd be interested in seeing info on that.
If there is more info, please post it for reading.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
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BarbellApprentice wrote: »Also, for the purposes of full disclosure. The article is by Ben Pakulski. He is an IFBB pro, so that is the realm/context here. Yes, he is hitting some very complicated and in depth topics as bullet points.
The points may not apply (or not as much) if you are more focused on performance (powerlifting, oly lifting, etc.). Also, the points may not apply for beginners who have not built a foundation.
The points may not also apply to hypertrophy in advanced competitors (what I'm getting at is that Ben may not have any evidence to back these claims up).
I don't have a horse in this race so to speak, so obviously I don't aim those comments at you since you're just posting the article.
Right now though I'm not convinced that he's correct.
I'm going to re-watch the video by Schoenfeld as he's pretty damn up to date on current hypertrophy research.0 -
I'd also have to agree with SS here. I've been in bodybuilding for the last 30 years and throughout my hypertrophy training, I've never really had to worry about tempo.I dislike some of the absolute statements in this article but I'm in for now as this should hopefully turn into a good discussion.
You can achieve significant hypertrophy without significantly varying rep tempo, so in that regard I disagree with the claim that you must constantly vary tempo.
If the claim is that you must vary tempo in order to maximize growth potential then I'd be interested in seeing info on that.
If there is more info, please post it for reading.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The printed info I have is in PDFs which is not the easiest to share..
If you care to listen to more info..
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ben-pakulski-podcast-muscle/id725296816?mt=2
I would start with episode 008 Muscle Expert Ben Pakulski & Dr Jacob Wilson How the Structure the Perfect Workout for Growth0 -
BarbellApprentice wrote: »Also, for the purposes of full disclosure. The article is by Ben Pakulski. He is an IFBB pro, so that is the realm/context here. Yes, he is hitting some very complicated and in depth topics as bullet points.
The points may not apply (or not as much) if you are more focused on performance (powerlifting, oly lifting, etc.). Also, the points may not apply for beginners who have not built a foundation.
The points may not also apply to hypertrophy in advanced competitors (what I'm getting at is that Ben may not have any evidence to back these claims up).
I don't have a horse in this race so to speak, so obviously I don't aim those comments at you since you're just posting the article.
Right now though I'm not convinced that he's correct.
I'm going to re-watch the video by Schoenfeld as he's pretty damn up to date on current hypertrophy research.
I got ya SS.
Ben is very scientific/data driven, but that does not mean he is correct. He had Brad on an episode of his podcast, but I can't recall the topic.
I do not have a horse in this race either, I just think it is an interesting topic.0 -
Well that got over my head in a hurry...0
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BarbellApprentice wrote: »BarbellApprentice wrote: »Also, for the purposes of full disclosure. The article is by Ben Pakulski. He is an IFBB pro, so that is the realm/context here. Yes, he is hitting some very complicated and in depth topics as bullet points.
The points may not apply (or not as much) if you are more focused on performance (powerlifting, oly lifting, etc.). Also, the points may not apply for beginners who have not built a foundation.
The points may not also apply to hypertrophy in advanced competitors (what I'm getting at is that Ben may not have any evidence to back these claims up).
I don't have a horse in this race so to speak, so obviously I don't aim those comments at you since you're just posting the article.
Right now though I'm not convinced that he's correct.
I'm going to re-watch the video by Schoenfeld as he's pretty damn up to date on current hypertrophy research.
I got ya SS.
Ben is very scientific/data driven, but that does not mean he is correct. He had Brad on an episode of his podcast, but I can't recall the topic.
I do not have a horse in this race either, I just think it is an interesting topic.
It's definitely a great topic. I don't care for Ben so much having read some of his facebook posts and seen how he conducts himself (using his physique to claim he is correct rather than debating the information at hand). Combine that with some nutritional things he's posted that pretty much go far against things that Aragon, Krieger, Lyle, Helms, and others post, and it sort of makes me lose faith in his position on things.
But that still doesn't mean he is incorrect.
I would also question how much the addition of pharmacological assistance *ahem* interacts (if at all) with these variables.
At any rate, if the claim is that rep tempo is an important variable to manipulate I would just like to see what data he's using to support that claim.
I'm going to listen to that Brad/Brett video tonight, they'll probably go over the relevant data.0 -
BarbellApprentice wrote: »BarbellApprentice wrote: »Also, for the purposes of full disclosure. The article is by Ben Pakulski. He is an IFBB pro, so that is the realm/context here. Yes, he is hitting some very complicated and in depth topics as bullet points.
The points may not apply (or not as much) if you are more focused on performance (powerlifting, oly lifting, etc.). Also, the points may not apply for beginners who have not built a foundation.
The points may not also apply to hypertrophy in advanced competitors (what I'm getting at is that Ben may not have any evidence to back these claims up).
I don't have a horse in this race so to speak, so obviously I don't aim those comments at you since you're just posting the article.
Right now though I'm not convinced that he's correct.
I'm going to re-watch the video by Schoenfeld as he's pretty damn up to date on current hypertrophy research.
I got ya SS.
Ben is very scientific/data driven, but that does not mean he is correct. He had Brad on an episode of his podcast, but I can't recall the topic.
I do not have a horse in this race either, I just think it is an interesting topic.
It's definitely a great topic. I don't care for Ben so much having read some of his facebook posts and seen how he conducts himself (using his physique to claim he is correct rather than debating the information at hand). Combine that with some nutritional things he's posted that pretty much go far against things that Aragon, Krieger, Lyle, Helms, and others post, and it sort of makes me lose faith in his position on things.
But that still doesn't mean he is incorrect.
I would also question how much the addition of pharmacological assistance *ahem* interacts (if at all) with these variables.
At any rate, if the claim is that rep tempo is an important variable to manipulate I would just like to see what data he's using to support that claim.
I'm going to listen to that Brad/Brett video tonight, they'll probably go over the relevant data.
That kind of interaction from Ben is unfortunate. Yea, I have heard some of his nutritional ideas that kind of raised my eyebrow. He is an IFBB pro, so the pharmacy assistance is a given .
I will poke around and see if I can find more supporting data that Dr. Wilson has produced or that Ben references. Yes, anecdotal support only goes so far.0 -
BarbellApprentice wrote: »BarbellApprentice wrote: »Also, for the purposes of full disclosure. The article is by Ben Pakulski. He is an IFBB pro, so that is the realm/context here. Yes, he is hitting some very complicated and in depth topics as bullet points.
The points may not apply (or not as much) if you are more focused on performance (powerlifting, oly lifting, etc.). Also, the points may not apply for beginners who have not built a foundation.
The points may not also apply to hypertrophy in advanced competitors (what I'm getting at is that Ben may not have any evidence to back these claims up).
I don't have a horse in this race so to speak, so obviously I don't aim those comments at you since you're just posting the article.
Right now though I'm not convinced that he's correct.
I'm going to re-watch the video by Schoenfeld as he's pretty damn up to date on current hypertrophy research.
I got ya SS.
Ben is very scientific/data driven, but that does not mean he is correct. He had Brad on an episode of his podcast, but I can't recall the topic.
I do not have a horse in this race either, I just think it is an interesting topic.
It's definitely a great topic. I don't care for Ben so much having read some of his facebook posts and seen how he conducts himself (using his physique to claim he is correct rather than debating the information at hand). Combine that with some nutritional things he's posted that pretty much go far against things that Aragon, Krieger, Lyle, Helms, and others post, and it sort of makes me lose faith in his position on things.
But that still doesn't mean he is incorrect.
I would also question how much the addition of pharmacological assistance *ahem* interacts (if at all) with these variables.
At any rate, if the claim is that rep tempo is an important variable to manipulate I would just like to see what data he's using to support that claim.
I'm going to listen to that Brad/Brett video tonight, they'll probably go over the relevant data.
This video may have been the start of the Fred Hahn wars.
0 -
BarbellApprentice wrote: »Neither I nor the article stated that you can't build muscle with something other than hypertrophy training. If you are going to participate, you need to stay away from straw men.
Then what is the point of your article? To provide a fourth of the information relevant to the subject matter? Straw-men? I'm all about having an educated conversation here, provide some good educational resources other than a Podcast.0 -
mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »BarbellApprentice wrote: »BarbellApprentice wrote: »Also, for the purposes of full disclosure. The article is by Ben Pakulski. He is an IFBB pro, so that is the realm/context here. Yes, he is hitting some very complicated and in depth topics as bullet points.
The points may not apply (or not as much) if you are more focused on performance (powerlifting, oly lifting, etc.). Also, the points may not apply for beginners who have not built a foundation.
The points may not also apply to hypertrophy in advanced competitors (what I'm getting at is that Ben may not have any evidence to back these claims up).
I don't have a horse in this race so to speak, so obviously I don't aim those comments at you since you're just posting the article.
Right now though I'm not convinced that he's correct.
I'm going to re-watch the video by Schoenfeld as he's pretty damn up to date on current hypertrophy research.
I got ya SS.
Ben is very scientific/data driven, but that does not mean he is correct. He had Brad on an episode of his podcast, but I can't recall the topic.
I do not have a horse in this race either, I just think it is an interesting topic.
It's definitely a great topic. I don't care for Ben so much having read some of his facebook posts and seen how he conducts himself (using his physique to claim he is correct rather than debating the information at hand). Combine that with some nutritional things he's posted that pretty much go far against things that Aragon, Krieger, Lyle, Helms, and others post, and it sort of makes me lose faith in his position on things.
But that still doesn't mean he is incorrect.
I would also question how much the addition of pharmacological assistance *ahem* interacts (if at all) with these variables.
At any rate, if the claim is that rep tempo is an important variable to manipulate I would just like to see what data he's using to support that claim.
I'm going to listen to that Brad/Brett video tonight, they'll probably go over the relevant data.
This video may have been the start of the Fred Hahn wars.
Fred unfortunately (fortunately?) blocked me on FB. I never followed him either, I just trolled him a few times in some of Brad/Alan's posts and he removed me. So now when I go into those 1000+ reply threads where Fred inevitably shows up, the flow of the conversation is all jacked up.
All I see is Brad and Alan owning Fred with no posts from Fred.
LOL0 -
I'd also have to agree with SS here. I've been in bodybuilding for the last 30 years and throughout my hypertrophy training, I've never really had to worry about tempo.I dislike some of the absolute statements in this article but I'm in for now as this should hopefully turn into a good discussion.
You can achieve significant hypertrophy without significantly varying rep tempo, so in that regard I disagree with the claim that you must constantly vary tempo.
If the claim is that you must vary tempo in order to maximize growth potential then I'd be interested in seeing info on that.
If there is more info, please post it for reading.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Tempo is a really just a small component of training. I'm hoping to have time to listen to Brett and Brad's video posted above because Brad is a very well-regarded practitioner and researcher in his field. Is that Eric Helm in the video above? I've read a couple pieces of his research and he's very good too, I've never seen a picture of him though so I wasn't sure.0 -
One for (studies cited). One says it is a crock. Like with most things, it is easy to get far down the rabbit hole in a hurry.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/time-to-grow.html - They reference a study done with cats, so you know it is good.
http://www.t-nation.com/training/is-time-under-tension-a-crock0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
I'd also have to agree with SS here. I've been in bodybuilding for the last 30 years and throughout my hypertrophy training, I've never really had to worry about tempo.I dislike some of the absolute statements in this article but I'm in for now as this should hopefully turn into a good discussion.
You can achieve significant hypertrophy without significantly varying rep tempo, so in that regard I disagree with the claim that you must constantly vary tempo.
If the claim is that you must vary tempo in order to maximize growth potential then I'd be interested in seeing info on that.
If there is more info, please post it for reading.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Tempo is a really just a small component of training. I'm hoping to have time to listen to Brett and Brad's video posted above because Brad is a very well-regarded practitioner and researcher in his field. Is that Eric Helm in the video above? I've read a couple pieces of his research and he's very good too, I've never seen a picture of him though so I wasn't sure.
Yes that's Eric. He's one of my favorites and I've learned a crap ton from him.
Sara and I will be interviewing him sometime in the near future.0 -
BarbellApprentice wrote: »One for (studies cited). One says it is a crock. Like with most things, it is easy to get far down the rabbit hole in a hurry.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/time-to-grow.html
http://www.t-nation.com/training/is-time-under-tension-a-crock
It is absolutely easy to get dissuaded by research because you can often find research that supports both sides of the coin. One of my professors taught to look at the larger body of evidence and what does it say, look at the results of the studies, and also look at the details of the study to see all the details and outliers in those studies. Also, the studies also have to be read and communicated within context of the audience being addressed. With bodybuilders you're talking about a different animal of trainee versus somebody that wants to get into the gym and add a little mass. Then there's experience in itself. Is it better to setup a stop-watch in front of you while you squat (for example) and make sure you're squatting for 60-seconds? Or is it better to make sure you're correctly getting to depth and firing out of the hole with as much controlled intensity as you can muster?0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMDvXGq9qCU
This discussion has been closed.
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