Restaurants with NO nutritional facts

Lochlyn_D

Ask fot the ingredients list of what you want, punch that into food.com and get the value for yourself.

dbmata

What's your opinion on eating from restaurants that don't have nutritional facts? I have a place near me that is targeted to people with a healthy lifestyle; serving salads, wraps, smoothies etc. but they have yet to make a nutritional facts sheet. I really want to eat there again but I'm hesitant because I don't know the facts. Is this being too anal? And even outside this specific place, there are so many places that don't have the facts. Should you save these meals for cheat days only? I am on track with my diet but I don't want to restrict myself too too much.

I think there is a law ( if you are in the US) where they have to release the nutrition facts if you ask.

Currently in CA and NY restaurants with 20 or more locations (aka chains) must have calorie info on the menu. In 2014 this will be nationally. But again, only for chains with 20 or more locations. McDonalds has put calories in all stores because of this.

Could you cite the federal law? I've not read one that says that. Talk about nanny law.

It's not a federal law, it's state law.

"In 2014 this will be nationally."

Which state is named Nationally?

dbmata

Google it. This is my understanding of the law in CA.

Where did you go to law school?

Citations go a long way to lending creedence.

danimalkeys

What's your opinion on eating from restaurants that don't have nutritional facts?

All for it, because it usually means it's not a chain, and it won't be crap food.

If I'm ordering foie gras, it's not because I want to make sure it fits my macros or something similarly stupid. I have no problem with being responsible for myself, and knowing that what I order I may have to deconstruct if I want to log, and I don't need to be babied by a restauranteur playing at nutrition guru with their added data.

Furthermore, when I have my restaurant, if someone asks one of my staff for that data, I'll show them the door. I'm not here to tell you how to eat, I'm here to feed you.

on the flip side, sometimes people will ask because they might have a food allergy. like if you fry in peanut oil, that might not be good for someone with a peanut allergy. I have a friend who is allergic to shellfish. He ordered fries and forgot to ask if they fried the shrimp in the same oil. He found out after his lips swelled up that indeed, they did fry the shellfish in the same oil! Other customers might have sodium restrctions or things like that, would you turn those people away if they ask how much salt is used? You wouldn't be in business long...

Let's be real here, people are asking nutrition data, and not ingredient list. While your comments have value, they aren't relevant.

Additionally, it is the responsibility of the diner to know what they can and cannot eat, as the restaurant staff cannot figure that out for them. It is also responsibility for the diner to ask if any of their known allergens are in the dish. I can't eat walnuts, so I ask if there are walnuts in the food. I don't ask for a recipe card. Asking for an ingredient list is asking for trade secrets, and any restaurant offering those up won't be in business long. That's basic business.

As for your rather ambiguous and relatively silly question: "would you turn those people away if they ask how much salt is used?"
No, that's their choice, they are adults (generally, and often with today's society only in age and body size.)
I would not sit there and say, oh we use 2500mg for X, and 180mg for Y. Too much liability.
A realistic response is: It's salty, it's not salty. This has the least amount of salt on the menu. Etc.

Again though, if you're looking for an AHA seal, go to Marie Callender's. With great dining comes great responsibility.

Asking if you use nuts, or fry in oil used for shellfish, etc, is definitely the customer's responsibility, I don't disagree. But, when they ask that, they are not asking for your secret recipe, nor are they asking for the secret recipe when they ask how many calories the seafood special has. Nutritional info doesn't mean we want the entire ingredient list, just what the common nutritional values are- fat/protein/carbs/sodium- so we can be responsible for ourselves.

dbmata

Google it. This is my understanding of the law in CA.

Now, I tried to do your citation work for you. I failed. There is no federal law that I can find that another poster claims exists.

I did find the CA version, which is fine, people expect nannyism from CA and NYC, and that wasn't in question. However, to aid you in the future, here is a link you can use for citation when you speak as an expert about it:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1420_bill_20080903_enrolled.html

This is a very simple language explanation of the CA law. I'll now kick back and wait for a cite of this supposed federal law. I have a problem with a federal law, because it's ridiculous, I have no problem with the CA law, because CA voters are kooky and they want silly ineffectual stuff all the time.

I think this is a good quote related to the food labeling law in CA.

"Caloric menu labeling has no impact on consumers' eating habits. In other words, this was a politically correct that is ineffective," said Carl's Jr. CEO Andy Puzder at a Congressional hearing.

HardcoreP0rk

almost every restaurant I patronize has no nutritional facts available

NadiaMW

That's true I could always ask how they cooked everything. Thanks!
And I went on their FB page and suggested they get a nutritional menu!

Ohnoes

I think there is a law ( if you are in the US) where they have to release the nutrition facts if you ask.

not really. i used to own/run a restaurant like the one described and we were not required to provide calorie counts or nutritional breakdowns. i happily shared ingredients and proportions with customers, and helped people work out their weight watchers points etc. but it was in no way required by the state. ive only ever seen calorie counts on fast food menus.

ETA: i see i am repeating what has already been said, but just wanted to throw in my personal experience. i was asked, several times, to provide calorie counts etc but it would have been very impractical for most menu items, as we made everything from scratch and to taste. fresh baked bread made and cut by hand is harder to measure than a machine sliced factory loaf! sometimes the tomatoes were sweeter for the soup, so we salted accordingly, etc etc.

NadiaMW

You could probably estimate to the best of your ability, and ask the waiter was they use when they cook it (like any oils) to make sure there's not too many hidden calories. You could also request that they start posting nutritional information - after all, since they're into making healthier foods, it shouldn't be too much to ask. You could be totes casual about it - ask it they have one, and when they say no, just be all "That's okay, but it would be totally awesome if you did in the future."

That's true I could always ask how they cooked everything. Thanks!
And I went on their FB page and suggested they get a nutritional menu!

craigmandu

That's true I could always ask how they cooked everything. Thanks!
And I went on their FB page and suggested they get a nutritional menu!

Good for you. I don't usually fret over a place I'm "trying" if they don't have nutritional facts.

But truth be told, I tend to frequent places that do, only because it makes me feel like they have a handle on serving sizes, and prepare their meals the same way "most" of the time. It is really only a guide.

Good Luck in your eating!

GeeGirl82

I wish it was listed on all restaurant's webpages because I always check there first before going out. The first and last time I guesstimated, I ended up with a 750 calorie chicken wrap at Applebees. Never again.

dbmata

Asking if you use nuts, or fry in oil used for shellfish, etc, is definitely the customer's responsibility, I don't disagree. But, when they ask that, they are not asking for your secret recipe, nor are they asking for the secret recipe when they ask how many calories the seafood special has. Nutritional info doesn't mean we want the entire ingredient list, just what the common nutritional values are- fat/protein/carbs/sodium- so we can be responsible for ourselves.

You ever work in a kitchen before? If not, then it probably seems reasonable to expect calorie counts.

I can tell you the numbers given at any place other than a hardcore quickserve or fastfood restaurant will be so wildly varied as not to even matter. You cannot do any analysis with bad data.
Asking if there is shellfish in something is fine and reasonable, asking for an ingredient list is not.

In the resturant environment you have limited resources, limited time, and high requirements on available resources. Every minute spent on nutritional info, and ensuring it is adhered to will take away from the development of an innovative menu, and clean environment. This will simply stifle creativity in order to create basically the plated equivalent of lunchables.

The 20 location gate is silly too. So, you make 19 in your chain, form a shell company, change the name marginally, and do another 19. Loophole, engaged.

dbmata

Google it. This is my understanding of the law in CA.

Now, I tried to do your citation work for you. I failed. There is no federal law that I can find that another poster claims exists.

I did find the CA version, which is fine, people expect nannyism from CA and NYC, and that wasn't in question. However, to aid you in the future, here is a link you can use for citation when you speak as an expert about it:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1420_bill_20080903_enrolled.html

This is a very simple language explanation of the CA law. I'll now kick back and wait for a cite of this supposed federal law. I have a problem with a federal law, because it's ridiculous, I have no problem with the CA law, because CA voters are kooky and they want silly ineffectual stuff all the time.

I think this is a good quote related to the food labeling law in CA.

"Caloric menu labeling has no impact on consumers' eating habits. In other words, this was a politically correct that is ineffective," said Carl's Jr. CEO Andy Puzder at a Congressional hearing.

Are you talking to me? I think you are. Change your attitude because your being an *kitten*.

What I said it's that my understanding in CA is that if a chain has 20 or more they have to post nutritional info. So, I don't know where you come off calling out my credentials and all. I never claimed to be a lawyer. I said, it is my understanding of CA law. I live in CA, so I am aware of the law and I have read about it in the past.

Calm down

Speaking to you, and the other legal scholars. You're out because I did your work for you. Now I'd like to see this supposed federal law that the nannyists begged for.

Ohnoes

You ever work in a kitchen before? If not, then it probably seems reasonable to expect calorie counts.

I can tell you the numbers given at any place other than a hardcore quickserve or fastfood restaurant will be so wildly varied as not to even matter. You cannot do any analysis with bad data.
Asking if there is shellfish in something is fine and reasonable, asking for an ingredient list is not.

In the resturant environment you have limited resources, limited time, and high requirements on available resources. Every minute spent on nutritional info, and ensuring it is adhered to will take away from the development of an innovative menu, and clean environment. This will simply stifle creativity in order to create basically the plated equivalent of lunchables.

yes, this is a better version of what i was trying to say.

NadiaMW

Ask fot the ingredients list of what you want, punch that into food.com and get the value for yourself.

Thanks that is what I plan on doing!

danimalkeys

Asking if you use nuts, or fry in oil used for shellfish, etc, is definitely the customer's responsibility, I don't disagree. But, when they ask that, they are not asking for your secret recipe, nor are they asking for the secret recipe when they ask how many calories the seafood special has. Nutritional info doesn't mean we want the entire ingredient list, just what the common nutritional values are- fat/protein/carbs/sodium- so we can be responsible for ourselves.

You ever work in a kitchen before? If not, then it probably seems reasonable to expect calorie counts.

I can tell you the numbers given at any place other than a hardcore quickserve or fastfood restaurant will be so wildly varied as not to even matter. You cannot do any analysis with bad data.
Asking if there is shellfish in something is fine and reasonable, asking for an ingredient list is not.

In the resturant environment you have limited resources, limited time, and high requirements on available resources. Every minute spent on nutritional info, and ensuring it is adhered to will take away from the development of an innovative menu, and clean environment. This will simply stifle creativity in order to create basically the plated equivalent of lunchables.

The 20 location gate is silly too. So, you make 19 in your chain, form a shell company, change the name marginally, and do another 19. Loophole, engaged.

Any kitchen uses recipes. The nutritional data doesn't have to be calculated for each person's meal, it can be calculated based on the recipe, well ahead of time. This is what goes into our jambalaya. Based on that, a serving has this nutritional value. If you order a steak and baked potato, they are serving a steak that is a consistent portion size, along with a generally consistent potato size. You know a 12oz strip has certain nutritional values, a baked potato has certain values, you can provide that to your customer.

dbmata

You ever work in a kitchen before? If not, then it probably seems reasonable to expect calorie counts.

I can tell you the numbers given at any place other than a hardcore quickserve or fastfood restaurant will be so wildly varied as not to even matter. You cannot do any analysis with bad data.
Asking if there is shellfish in something is fine and reasonable, asking for an ingredient list is not.

In the resturant environment you have limited resources, limited time, and high requirements on available resources. Every minute spent on nutritional info, and ensuring it is adhered to will take away from the development of an innovative menu, and clean environment. This will simply stifle creativity in order to create basically the plated equivalent of lunchables.

yes, this is a better version of what i was trying to say.

For example, when on the sautee station, you know what generally dictates the difference between using a 1oz ladle of oil, or a 2oz in most sit downs? Whichever ladle is closest to your hand. You're working 7 different things at once, you're on autopilot. This dish got a 1oz ladle in the nonstick pan, the same dish on the other side of the cook top got a 2oz.

That's common, and it goes from there. That alone is a 250kcal difference if we're talking olive oil. If the dish is 1000 kcals, that's a difference immediately of 25%.