Depression and Weight Loss

68myra

DittoDan wrote: »

Sometimes low fat diets will trigger depression.

that's interesting. i wonder if that is because of the "lower" Omega3 fatty acids..... I have an on/off relationship with supplementing with fish oil for omega 3's. my last psychiatrist recommended it. he was taking it for cardiovascular benefits. i'm not on a low-fat diet, that's for sure, but this might get me back in the habit of taking that supplement! thanks for the idea!

68myra

soulofgrace wrote: »

Thanks Myra. I must admit seeing your response brought weepy eyes for me tonight. I had another family 'eruption' today. I fear I've most likely passed on my depression to my son. But, at least he has a mom who can relate. We will learn together.

Unfortunately my shoulder has continued to keep me up at night. For 6 weeks now, it causes pain no matter what position I'm in, so I am I'll prepared to deal with life's usual stressors. I told my rheumatologist the bright side of my shoulder injury is that it has over shadowed my usual aches and pains.

My two-day Thanksgiving adventure found me drowning my emotions in an extra large serving of pecan pie...mmm. I'm paying for it now with a nice, slow decline back to my pre-Thanksgiving weight. Sigh. But, pecan pie! I'm okay with it. Another bright side...there usually isn't pecan pie at Christmas! I think I'm in for a smooth landing in 2016.

Going to the Ortho on Monday. Probably physical therapy. Next time I will get the stupid step-stool instead of improvising.

Thanks again, and yes, we'll get through these holidays with a little help from our friends! The ones who best understand.

I'm glad my response was well-timed, but i'm sorry you are having family eruptions. i can relate to that too, lol. two peas are we? I have known for years that my youngest could benefit from professional help.... but ... i was really hoping she would mature out of "it"..... now, with the encouragement of her pediatrician, i am researching a firm to give her a "psycho educational evaluation" i feel like holding my breath, but i know better. what will be, will be, and just maybe i'll learn some new skill i can use to help her.
as for heredity..... been there, done that. My oldest daughter is 22, and swears she will never bear her own child, and has, in the past, blamed me for her inherited illness. It is what it is. it is disheartening to realize your child will have struggles that you know all too well (dammit), but i'm glad you see the bright side that you are in a position to understand and give support. I have talked my oldest "down" on several occasions. It is emotionally exhausting, but I'm grateful she reached out to me and that I was able to remain calm and be of help. to me, nothing is worse than feeling helpless, especially when it's your "baby"

anyhow, i've rambled on enough for today. best of luck with ortho and physical therapy! I'm about to add massage therapy to the mix for my hip...... happy birthday to me, LOL

68myra

Psychgrrl wrote: »

No one gets through the holiday season unscathed. Kinda like no one gets through high school unscathed.

What we can do is know this, understand which experiences are most likely to affect us and prepare as best we can. Remembering where the potholes are, makes it easier to avoid them. And not letting the new potholes that we run into derail us from where we know we need to go.

Having faith in ourselves, to know how resilient we are, and to see beyond the immediate discussion so that it doesn't draw us in to negative patterns of behavior. Instead of reaching for more pie, go for a walk/run. That's my strategy.

And there's so much pride in each trigger that's diffused. Each piece of bait that's not taken. Each button pushed that we let not set us off as expected. Other folks may de-volve into their familial destructive patterns, but we can continue to evolve in support of healthier selves.

i appreciate your positive and pro-active attitude! there IS pride in diffused triggers! i shall try my best to focus on the bait i did NOT take rather than focus on those buttons i couldn't (wouldn't?) diffuse.
example: last night i ate at a buffet for dinner and didn't eat any breads or desserts. yay, me!

Psychgrrl

DittoDan wrote: »

Sometimes low fat diets will trigger depression. Try a ketogenic diet.

I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan

Please provide some peer-reviewed sources to support this statement.

shelleygold

Hi Tribe,
I was mulling over my relationship with food the other day and imagined that sooner or later I would have to face reality. The relationship was not working and was very very one sided. Food was not contributing to my well-being and positive growth and development as a human being. It was creating too may unhealthy demands on me and became far too important in relation to other aspects of my life. I would still allow food to be part of my reality, but the "love-affair" had to end as there is no future for me if I let food be my mistress.With food being my passion, I am aware that I could never really remember my boundaries and/or my promise to myself to treat my body with respect. So...I have broken up with food and have changed my attitude. I will eat food as I need to and in accordance with strict and healthy guidelines and teach myself that I am more than my previous eating behaviours and can make new choices. I will probably grieve and mourn the relationship but that process always opens new doors at the right time. Wish me luck group.
Shel, The Single Man

Psychgrrl

Good luck--you CAN do it! Be patient with yourself, breaking up is hard to do.

soulofgrace

Good luck and I hope you can at least remain friends!

soulofgrace

68myra wrote: »

soulofgrace wrote: »

Thanks Myra. I must admit seeing your response brought weepy eyes for me tonight. I had another family 'eruption' today. I fear I've most likely passed on my depression to my son. But, at least he has a mom who can relate. We will learn together.

Unfortunately my shoulder has continued to keep me up at night. For 6 weeks now, it causes pain no matter what position I'm in, so I am I'll prepared to deal with life's usual stressors. I told my rheumatologist the bright side of my shoulder injury is that it has over shadowed my usual aches and pains.

My two-day Thanksgiving adventure found me drowning my emotions in an extra large serving of pecan pie...mmm. I'm paying for it now with a nice, slow decline back to my pre-Thanksgiving weight. Sigh. But, pecan pie! I'm okay with it. Another bright side...there usually isn't pecan pie at Christmas! I think I'm in for a smooth landing in 2016.

Going to the Ortho on Monday. Probably physical therapy. Next time I will get the stupid step-stool instead of improvising.

Thanks again, and yes, we'll get through these holidays with a little help from our friends! The ones who best understand.

I'm glad my response was well-timed, but i'm sorry you are having family eruptions. i can relate to that too, lol. two peas are we? I have known for years that my youngest could benefit from professional help.... but ... i was really hoping she would mature out of "it"..... now, with the encouragement of her pediatrician, i am researching a firm to give her a "psycho educational evaluation" i feel like holding my breath, but i know better. what will be, will be, and just maybe i'll learn some new skill i can use to help her.
as for heredity..... been there, done that. My oldest daughter is 22, and swears she will never bear her own child, and has, in the past, blamed me for her inherited illness. It is what it is. it is disheartening to realize your child will have struggles that you know all too well (dammit), but i'm glad you see the bright side that you are in a position to understand and give support. I have talked my oldest "down" on several occasions. It is emotionally exhausting, but I'm grateful she reached out to me and that I was able to remain calm and be of help. to me, nothing is worse than feeling helpless, especially when it's your "baby"

anyhow, i've rambled on enough for today. best of luck with ortho and physical therapy! I'm about to add massage therapy to the mix for my hip...... happy birthday to me, LOL

Thanks Myra! Two peas indeed! Massage therapy...that sounds wonderful!

shelleygold

Hi Everyone,
Myra and others, the more I learn about depression, the more I move away from focusing on the "genetic" component. I really do not think depression is "passed on" in terms of a gene or in our DNA. I do think that depression can be "contagious" if we do not manage our moods and more importantly the way in which we think, respond to our world and base our choices with insight, awareness and understanding. Depression, in my view (and this is only my opinion) reflects a rigidity in thinking and problem-solving and it is just possible that raising kids under the influence of our own impacts of depression can make it very hard to create for our families, feelings of flexibility, dealing with life as an ever-everchallenging and difficult jungle to negotiate. I know that when I am depressed, I influence the moods of my family and bring down everyone's sense of hope and optimism about how to manage the crap in life. I do NOT do this on purpose and I know that sometimes I simply cannot find a positive or flexible thought if one was hand delivered by Sigmund Freud. But... I have taken responsibility for managing my depression, in part, to model for my family that I can still be fun to be around and offer solutions and suggestions rather than feelings. I know this may sound radical and I know there are biological and physical aspects to mental health which are obviously the business of the medical world and we have to accept that reality. But...the management of depression and anxiety, and the way in which we might considering reducing the impacts on others and even preventing the continuation of the mood disorders, in my opinion, rests to a large extent in how we understand depression and anxiety as how our brains have learned to respond because of the rigidity in thinking. This rigidity was a response to the very difficult and oftentimes painful environments we had to cope with and negotiate. Therefore, the requirement to learn better problem-solving skills, learning to see things in different ways and work hard to make positive steps towards our sense of self-love and acceptance, seem to me to be the best ways to manage the harsh pull on our thinking from depression and anxiety. If our kids think they "got" depression from us...I think we need to explain to them that they might have LEARNED how to deal with our depression but limiting some of their own ways of thinking and responding. The good news is that both we and our children can see the brain as an ever-changing, dynamic organ that can learn new skills and create new ways of thinking and feeling. I remember once staring at a glass that had only some water in it and refusing to see it as half full. My therapist wouldn't let me out of the room until I really got that that was one of two possibilities. It wasn't so much the half full/half empty choice. It was the fact that my brain was only seeing one possibility. Only one. Therefore, my homework was to look at so many simple things that I had always made assumptions about and see if I could create different interpretations and possibilities. A rainy day might be a chance to enjoy a good book. (I used to hate the rain because when we couldn't go outside as kids, we had to deal with some awful stuff that occurred in our house). You get the idea. So...I would suggest to your daughter that if she is concerned that she is not enjoying her life and may be experiencing elements of depression, both you and her can talk about how she is thinking and feeling and maybe even together go and talk to someone about how your daughter might have learned to think and react and more importantly how things can be different.
This way nothing is locked in and everything can be temporary and open to change.
Hmmm wonder if I am sound like I am preaching? Well, I hope not as I mean this with the greatest amount of respect and appreciation for how depression is different for all of us and how we need to look at its symptoms and treatments in many many ways.
Hope I have offered at least a different point of view.
Look forward to some interesting discourse over this.
Fondly
Shel

68myra

Hi Shel,
I find your perspective interesting, and the best part is what i interpret as "internal locus of control". I think the viewpoint you are trying to express is that depression isn't something that an outside influence (genetics) has done to us, and that WE have the power to change our own perspective of how we think and feel about things. To be honest, i wasn't sure which daughter of mine you were thinking about, the oldest at 22 or the youngest at 9. The oldest believes she inherited a propensity for this disease. I will not argue with her on that opinion. she ALSO knows her life is her own and she decides what to make of it. BOY does she demonstrate she knows this. My 9 year old is blissfully unaware, on an intellectual level. We have never made her feel that something might be wrong with her, which is part of the reason I have not yet reached out for help for her either. I have explained that I will take her to someone that will talk with her and see if there is anything we can do that can help her get her schoolwork completed. she DOES know that she has a hard time with focus, and infrequently completes her schoolwork tasks. (homework gets done, schoolwork does not)

As for your opinion, I appreciate that. I see where you are coming from. I still believe there is a genetic component. at least for making this and other related illnesses more "likely"

for instance: i donated eggs to my sister who could not get pregnant with her own. during the process, we had to go to a counseling session. the counselor very professionally explained that if i were an anonymous donor, my eggs would not be accepted. they were only allowing that because it was my sister's request. I assumed, incorrectly, that the reason was my depression diagnosis. the counselor corrected me, saying it was not my difficulty with depression, but the family history of alcoholism that would preclude me from being an egg donor anonymously. nobody in my family of origin is an alcoholic, but.... other relatives, OY VEH.
there is a correlation between depression and alcohol/drug abuse
my sisters and i all have varying levels of OCD as well. it wasn't diagnosed "back in the day", but it is obvious to all of us that our father also has some symptoms of this. we were raised by our mother. me, being the baby of the family had my father around much more than my sisters did because i was a late in life baby for him and he retired from work early. However, for most of his working career, he was traveling extensively, and was simply not home to participate in raising my older sisters. that's not to say he did not have any influence over them, but he just wasn't home on a daily basis. ironically, i have the least OCD behaviors of his three daughters.

at this point, Only GOD knows the real truth, but..... I believe there are a variety of factors that influenced how depression was "expressed" in my personal makeup. Regardless of those factors, I am in control of my life. This old dog CAN learn new tricks (in other words, i agree with you that our brains are flexible) I have been through multiple therapies, as i was diagnosed with depression 30 years ago. most of what i've learned about managing my symptoms has come through trial and error, but i've never given up trying something new i can learn to "feel" (or think) more positively. As far as my oldest goes, she is learning coping skills at a much earlier age than i did. she cannot afford to take medications, and, honestly, the longer she can avoid them, and use other methods of management, the better off I THINK she will be. I am coming to terms with the idea that i might have to live with medication for the rest of my life, but i'm hoping she will not have to. (she doesn't like how they make her feel "numb") as far as my youngest little sweet pea, other than learning better skills to help her focus in school, she desperately needs to learn emotion regulation.... and i am NOT qualified to teach her! it's funny, but not.

neither of them have the factors mentioned above in their past that i do. (i am willing to share what they were if anyone is particularly interested) they are much better off for that. I have great anticipation that they will BOTH get through this learning period and end up with much more stable emotional lives than their mother.


HAPPY SATURDAY to Shel's tribe

Myra

soulofgrace

Thanks Shel for your sharing your viewpoint. I must say I do disagree with your initial premise that depression is not genetic. Do a quick Google on the recent research that reports on a specific gene variant found in Askenazi Jews that predisposes to Schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder and manic depression. I happen to be of Ashkenazi descent and while I do not have those more serious mental illnesses, it's not a huge leap for me to think I am predisposed to mental illness in any form. Further, it makes sense to me that mental illness can have a genetic component in every human. Of course, that's my extrapolated opinion.

Like you and many others here, I have also put years of thought, therapy and research into my personal understanding of this illness. You might think learning of a genetic component would make me worry more. But I think I've always suspected anyway. I feel it in my bones. My illness goes way back to people who fought a much hardér fight so that I could give life a try. I am grateful!

I have no disillusions that a genetic predisposition gives me the golden ticket that allows me to relinquish responsibility for the management of my illness, or responsibility for how my illness affects those around me. I understand what genetic predisposition means. It's like a switch and there needs to be a trigger. I had a trigger. I don't want to be a trigger for someone else.

So yes, I worry that poor behavior management on my part could trigger full blown mental illness or a more mild form of disordered thinking In my kids. Im not passive about it. I do fight the good fight, but I am what I am, and they see me, and love me, with all my faults, no matter what. They see me struggle, but they don't have a complete understanding of what I am fighting. I believe simply knowing something is possible can be the impetus to making it so. This way they will remember how I fought, and they will remember to fight if they need to. They will do their own research, if need be, and I will help. Life is a struggle any way which way you look at it, and we're learning together how to navigate.

So yes, I do agree the brain is fluid, and I have adopted stragies over the years that have profoundly changed my way of thinking and being. I credit Buddhist philosophy, in large part. Also, I am a creative professional and I make my living by seeing multiple solutions to every problem. Knowing where my problem is rooted is always part of the solution. Knowing there is a genetic predisposion gives ground to forgive myself. I can understand that this isn't something I did to myself. This isn't some deficiency I have created within my brain. This illness did not occur because I am "doing it wrong," or because I am weak. Knowing there is a genetic component allows me to forgive, period. This isn't anyone's fault.

Thanks to those who made it through my ramblings.
Have a good day everyone!

kshama2001

shelleygold wrote: »

Hi Tribe,
I was mulling over my relationship with food the other day and imagined that sooner or later I would have to face reality. The relationship was not working and was very very one sided. Food was not contributing to my well-being and positive growth and development as a human being. It was creating too may unhealthy demands on me and became far too important in relation to other aspects of my life. I would still allow food to be part of my reality, but the "love-affair" had to end as there is no future for me if I let food be my mistress.With food being my passion, I am aware that I could never really remember my boundaries and/or my promise to myself to treat my body with respect. So...I have broken up with food and have changed my attitude. I will eat food as I need to and in accordance with strict and healthy guidelines and teach myself that I am more than my previous eating behaviours and can make new choices. I will probably grieve and mourn the relationship but that process always opens new doors at the right time. Wish me luck group.
Shel, The Single Man

Hi Shel,

I broke with Food as a way to self medicate, and am much happier with my new partner, Exercise.

Best of luck!

KK

TheBeachgod

shelleygold

Hi again,
Regardless of the aetiology for our mental health challenges, we got em and it sounds like we are all doing whatever it takes to manage our lives with respect, compassion and intelligence. I guess the debate regarding nature-nurture continues on in laboratories of life (both metaphorically speaking and in actual research areas of science) but at the end of the day, we are who we are and why not make the best of what that is...in every way. I love the movie Inside Out. Have you folks seen it? I think it is a ingenious analogy of how the brain creates meaning from events in our lives and then colours the meaning with the most prominent emotions that tend to be running our own internal consoles. Just a terrific way of describing that our interpretations of reality may already be patterned in us from the early moments of our lives. Who knows if we have a predisposition to these orientations due to genetics, or learned responses or both? Bottom line is that we can learn a lot about the impact of feelings and thoughts and then offer ourselves a bit more control over how we can decide what meaning to give an event and how to make better choices. Since mood disorders are fundamentally feeling based, I like to think that if I can separate my feelings out of what my brain is focusing on, I can get a better reading on what is happening and therefore make more considered, balanced choices. ....On a good day. Otherwise, I get swept away in the feelings that are in charge of giving my life meaning and the rest is history. I am trying to use this way of thinking with eating and asking myself on a regal basis, what is best for my body and how will eating"x" promote my well-being or just make me miserable once the taste-fulfillment is just another memory? I tell myself that my body can either be a refrigerator or a furnace. I use a lot of imagery and then try and see food as fuel rather than a lover. Sounds like hard work. It is. But I am a big fan and keeping things moving when I can.
I love our discussions.
Thanks
Shel

shelleygold

Hey everyone,
I am sorry I have not submitted a post in the past few days. I have noticed a bit of a lull in our thread and imagine that we are all busy with the minutia of our lives. For me, I have found myself working hard to stay present and focused on the tasks in my life. This has been an interesting experience as I have really been confronted with my moods as I have noticed lots of fluctuations in my depression and anxiety. The good news is that I am much more aware of my triggers and what impacts my emotions. I started to read up on another psychological model called Dialytic Behavioural Therapy. have you read about it? The therapy, from what I have read, is designed to help people who have what is loosely called Borderline Personality Disorder which I do not really understand and the criteria doesn't seem to reflect my issues. Different than the criteria for BPD, I would like to think I have insight and some degree of understanding regarding the choices I can make. Yet, I find it so hard to look at the bright side of life and to see hope. I guess this is the impact of Depression and I get that. The DBT approach is useful in that I am learning how to notice my feelings rather than become tortured by them. Meditation and mindfulness has been a great addition to my life and I would recommend both to you as the benefits are great. I have noticed that I can handle more stress and ups and downs. It is not perfect but it is better. MY weight.....well, I think I am worrying about it less.I wonder how you are working on your moods in your lives? Also, how do you decide to let go of your stress and frustration? Do you think it is something that you can manage with effort? I would love to know what positive strategies you have been using lately to manage your moods.
Shel

serasmommy

Realizing that things get worse for me during one week every month, has led to me being able to cope with that darker than usual time a little bit better. Knowing that my hormones will balance out soon has helped. But boy, is it ever dark! Why do all the big events have to happen at the same time? !?!? The Christmas concert I'm doing with the Sunday school children is this Sunday. So this week is stressful from that anticipation and anxiety plus hormonal terror. Argh.

shelleygold

Hey Tribe
I have allowed myself to be distracted by another thread and I am not sure why I found myself in the thick of a debate surrounding the science of weight loss and the importance of considering individual differences and respecting the possibility that not all bodies behave the same way. I certainly couldn't keep up with the "scientists" who can point to objective truths about calories in and calories out etc and measurement variables and on and on. I found myself trying to plead for some type of recognition that we ought not to judge people who struggle with weight loss as mathematically "inept" or even worse, self-deceptive. Do I think of myself as one of "those" people who pretend that they are eating less than they are? Am I one of the "fluffy" people who think my body must work differently than the machines described by the scientists who act like there is no ostensible difference between people so we will gain or lose based on caloric factors. That's it. End of story. I feel deflated and disappointed...and more than anything else confused. So...here is a tip. Be careful about discussions that lead one into the deeper waters of our own truths. Sure we have to face ourselves but I would prefer to do it kindly and with intention, rather than by falling over myself with trying to make sense out of something which I am only beginning to understand. I am not saying there are wrong. I just think I didn't look after myself through the process. So.....I am back here.
Thanks for letting me return.
S

RodaRose

Yes, do this for yourself with kindness and intention.

gothchiq

Yes, it's a big factor for me. I take my meds, and that helps, but it's not magic. Getting out and getting some sunlight every day helps. some fresh air. Meditation helps. Talking to friends helps. And so does making myself work out even if I don't feel like it because then even if it was no fun I accomplished it and I have that to my credit.

mbaker566

gothchiq wrote: »

Yes, it's a big factor for me. I take my meds, and that helps, but it's not magic. Getting out and getting some sunlight every day helps. some fresh air. Meditation helps. Talking to friends helps. And so does making myself work out even if I don't feel like it because then even if it was no fun I accomplished it and I have that to my credit.

I find this very true