At my wits end, really need some advice.
Replies
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I don't want to get into a huge debate here because I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of people. All I'm trying to say is that OP is already netting under 1200 calories, which most people agree isn't healthy. Therefore, the people telling her to eat less are not offering good advice. So, why not try the alternative - eating more? I agree with you that there isn't science in place to back this up, but there's nothing wrong with giving it a try. Especially when there ARE so many people with personal experiences showing that it has helped them.
Do I think OP could lose weight eating 800 calories a day? Of course. That's basic math. Do I think it would be healthy to do so? Absolutely not. So let's stop recommending it to her.
I used to net 1200 or less a day and yes I was losing weight. Then I increased to 1400+ a day and I'm still losing weight - even faster than I was before! I think they key is to eat more than your BMR but less than your TDEE (and yes, this IS scientifically proven to work). Clearly OP is currently eating under her BMR. All I'm suggesting is that she increase her calories to be above that number, but still less than her TDEE, therefore allowing weight loss. This is why I linked her to the road map thread.
I don't want to insult the OP because I don't think there is purposefully misleading information provided, but the basic math says that the calories consumed are not less than those burned.
You say your rate of loss is faster at 1400+ than at 1200? So you truly believe that there is a point where you could take another bite and it cause an increase in the calorie deficit rather than a decrease? Lots of people have made the claim but no one has been able to demonstrate it under clinical scrutiny.0 -
I was eating less then 1200 calories a day and the weight wouldn't come off. I had to up my calories to not go under 1200 with excercises and the weight starting coming off. Just make sure they are good calories and you should be fine.0
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I don't want to get into a huge debate here because I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of people. All I'm trying to say is that OP is already netting under 1200 calories, which most people agree isn't healthy. Therefore, the people telling her to eat less are not offering good advice. So, why not try the alternative - eating more? I agree with you that there isn't science in place to back this up, but there's nothing wrong with giving it a try. Especially when there ARE so many people with personal experiences showing that it has helped them.
Do I think OP could lose weight eating 800 calories a day? Of course. That's basic math. Do I think it would be healthy to do so? Absolutely not. So let's stop recommending it to her.
I used to net 1200 or less a day and yes I was losing weight. Then I increased to 1400+ a day and I'm still losing weight - even faster than I was before! I think they key is to eat more than your BMR but less than your TDEE (and yes, this IS scientifically proven to work). Clearly OP is currently eating under her BMR. All I'm suggesting is that she increase her calories to be above that number, but still less than her TDEE, therefore allowing weight loss. This is why I linked her to the road map thread.
I don't want to insult the OP because I don't think there is purposefully misleading information provided, but the basic math says that the calories consumed are not less than those burned.
You say your rate of loss is faster at 1400+ than at 1200? So you truly believe that there is a point where you could take another bite and it cause an increase in the calorie deficit rather than a decrease? Lots of people have made the claim but no one has been able to demonstrate it under clinical scrutiny.
You're right, this hasn't been demonstrated clinically or scientifically. And of course I don't believe there's a point like that. I'm not going to pretend to be able to explain this, because mathematically it doesn't make sense. I never said it does.
All I know is that I am now eating 250+ calories more than I used to, and I'm losing weight at the same rate or even more quickly. And yes, I tracked everything CAREFULLY the whole time. I'm definitely eating more now. That's the truth, take it or leave it. You can decide not to believe me, you can say I must have miscalculated, you can say it doesn't make any sense - that's your choice. That's not going to stop me from recommending it to the OP, knowing that it has worked for me and many others (like the person who just posted above me).
We could debate this all day but I won't. Let the OP make her own decision with the information provided.0 -
I don't want to get into a huge debate here because I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of people. All I'm trying to say is that OP is already netting under 1200 calories, which most people agree isn't healthy. Therefore, the people telling her to eat less are not offering good advice. So, why not try the alternative - eating more? I agree with you that there isn't science in place to back this up, but there's nothing wrong with giving it a try. Especially when there ARE so many people with personal experiences showing that it has helped them.
Do I think OP could lose weight eating 800 calories a day? Of course. That's basic math. Do I think it would be healthy to do so? Absolutely not. So let's stop recommending it to her.
I used to net 1200 or less a day and yes I was losing weight. Then I increased to 1400+ a day and I'm still losing weight - even faster than I was before! I think they key is to eat more than your BMR but less than your TDEE (and yes, this IS scientifically proven to work). Clearly OP is currently eating under her BMR. All I'm suggesting is that she increase her calories to be above that number, but still less than her TDEE, therefore allowing weight loss. This is why I linked her to the road map thread.
I don't want to insult the OP because I don't think there is purposefully misleading information provided, but the basic math says that the calories consumed are not less than those burned.
You say your rate of loss is faster at 1400+ than at 1200? So you truly believe that there is a point where you could take another bite and it cause an increase in the calorie deficit rather than a decrease? Lots of people have made the claim but no one has been able to demonstrate it under clinical scrutiny.
You're right, this hasn't been demonstrated clinically or scientifically. And of course I don't believe there's a point like that. I'm not going to pretend to be able to explain this, because mathematically it doesn't make sense. I never said it does.
All I know is that I am now eating 250+ calories more than I used to, and I'm losing weight at the same rate or even more quickly. And yes, I tracked everything CAREFULLY the whole time. I'm definitely eating more now. That's the truth, take it or leave it. You can decide not to believe me, you can say I must have miscalculated, you can say it doesn't make any sense - that's your choice. That's not going to stop me from recommending it to the OP, knowing that it has worked for me and many others (like the person who just posted above me).
We could debate this all day but I won't. Let the OP make her own decision with the information provided.
I had a very similar experience. I felt stalled and frustrated and was netting 1200 calories a day. Now I have increased to 1600 and more recently joined the gym and had my stats calculated properly. With a BMR of 1430 (minimum calories requirement per day) it is no surprise that my body was trying to maintain weight. Realistically, I should have weighed 30kilos if it is as simple as the above posts say. More people struggling with anorexia and eating 700calories a day should not have survived (I am glad they have/did/are surviving) and so on. It is with this extreme you can see how there is some truth in what myself and LaurenAOK are saying.
Can someone link the 'in place of a roadmap' thread please, ASAP? not sure where it is.
Cheers0 -
Can someone link the 'in place of a roadmap' thread please, ASAP? not sure where it is.
Cheers
I linked it in another post but here it is again! http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-20130 -
Here's my take on the matter, FWIW: Metabolic science is still in its infancy. We know a lot about how to lose weight, but there is a lot more that we don't know, especially in the community of individuals who go from a heavy weight down to a lean one. They are metabolically different than people who have never been that big. Because there is such an absolute dearth of information, an over abundance of pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo has risen up from all corners of our society to take its place (and claim the brass ring that comes with supplying bad information.) I think that's why we all have such varying opinions on how to do this and keep it off.
OP, one thing I would suggest: import a couple of days of your food journal and make it public so we can help you in a more targeted manner. It isn't just a matter of calories in vs. calories out because - and this is something for which there actually is an abundance of academic literature - not all calories interact with your body in the same fashion. While it's true that all the calories you eat will be eventually converted to glucose in your liver, eating too much refined sugar and processed food can cause blood glucose to spike. Even if you are exercising as much as you say, these kinds of spikes can do a real number on your liver's ability to metabolize food. Furthermore, if your muscle tissue can't use all the glucose in your blood it eventually gets stored as fat, which could lead to a lot of frustration if you're trying to lose weight. Have you been checked out for insulin resistance? IR can make it very difficult to lose weight, even when it seems like you're doing everything else correctly...and it's incredibly common in women. Just a thought.0 -
Can someone link the 'in place of a roadmap' thread please, ASAP? not sure where it is.
Cheers
I linked it in another post but here it is again! http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-2013
thank you! thought it would be good for OP, should have looked closer - didn't realise you already posted :laugh:0 -
No study has ever found a point at which anyone loses more by eating more. It becomes less efficient to reduce intake at some point (removing 10 more calories might only add 7 to the deficit as metabolism slows) but it never starts going the other way. NEVER.
Thank you! I've been pretty sure that Eat more/Weigh less is bro-science, espoused mainly by highly energetic men (and some women) in their early 20s. If it worked that way for everyone, MFP would be a lonely place.0 -
I was eating at 2000 and losing around 1 and a half pounds to 2 pounds a week right up till I lost around 28 pounds, I then stalled for a week completely, upped my calories to 2600 and lost another 4 pounds in the following 3 weeks. There are several posts a day of people saying they can't lose weight while eating 1200 calories and I have seen many posts of people saying they stalled and then started losing again when they upped their calories by 400-800.No study has ever found a point at which anyone loses more by eating more. It becomes less efficient to reduce intake at some point (removing 10 more calories might only add 7 to the deficit as metabolism slows) but it never starts going the other way. NEVER.0 -
Are you still losing inches? It could just be that you're building muscle. I would try lowering your calories, but still eating full healthy meals! I also attened those same classes and I dont think you should stop! Like you said, they are made so it challenges you differently every time.
Remember that getting a good sleep every night is a important part of a healthy life style
Good luck!
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At a deficit that is impossible, they cannot build muscle on 1100 calories, most people wouldn't be able to build muscle on less than 2500 calories.Are you still losing inches? It could just be that you're building muscle. I would try lowering your calories, but still eating full healthy meals! I also attened those same classes and I dont think you should stop! Like you said, they are made so it challenges you differently every time.
Remember that getting a good sleep every night is a important part of a healthy life style
Good luck!0 -
I was eating at 2000 and losing around 1 and a half pounds to 2 pounds a week right up till I lost around 28 pounds, I then stalled for a week completely, upped my calories to 2600 and lost another 4 pounds in the following 3 weeks. There are several posts a day of people saying they can't lose weight while eating 1200 calories and I have seen many posts of people saying they stalled and then started losing again when they upped their calories by 400-800.No study has ever found a point at which anyone loses more by eating more. It becomes less efficient to reduce intake at some point (removing 10 more calories might only add 7 to the deficit as metabolism slows) but it never starts going the other way. NEVER.
And you are an 18 year old young man! Please don't confuse yourself with everybody else here. Women cannot eat as much as you. Older men cannot eat as much. Older women, even less. Almost no one can eat as much as an 18YO male! If I ate 2400 cals a day I'd be gaining 5 pounds a week.0 -
How can you gain 5 pounds a week if you eat 2400? if you eat that much depending on your weight and height, and if you exercise, you will still have a deficit. my TDEE shows I can eat 2600 to maintain my weight or 2077 to lose one pound a week. I've been eating around 1800-2000 a day and working my butt off and it's working for me!0
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I calculated the TDEE of a 40 year old woman with the same weight and exercise as the OP, their TDEE is 2430 meaning to lose weight they should NOT go under 1400 calories as this is already 2 pounds a week, the OP is in a deficit of 1230 already and contemplating going in more of a deficit, nearing the loss of 3lb a week which isn't healthy, plus trying to get all your nutrients in with 1200 calories would be difficult. If the weight loss has stalled I would recommend trying to lose a pound a week, meaning eating 1930 calories a dayish and continuing with the exercise.
And you are an 18 year old young man! Please don't confuse yourself with everybody else here. Women cannot eat as much as you. Older men cannot eat as much. Older women, even less. Almost no one can eat as much as an 18YO male! If I ate 2400 cals a day I'd be gaining 5 pounds a week.
I was eating at 2000 and losing around 1 and a half pounds to 2 pounds a week right up till I lost around 28 pounds, I then stalled for a week completely, upped my calories to 2600 and lost another 4 pounds in the following 3 weeks. There are several posts a day of people saying they can't lose weight while eating 1200 calories and I have seen many posts of people saying they stalled and then started losing again when they upped their calories by 400-800.No study has ever found a point at which anyone loses more by eating more. It becomes less efficient to reduce intake at some point (removing 10 more calories might only add 7 to the deficit as metabolism slows) but it never starts going the other way. NEVER.0 -
^ Thank you for speaking some sense! :flowerforyou: it would take a surplus of 2500 calories a day to gain that kind of weight which for a female would be around 5000ish calories every day after exercise...How can you gain 5 pounds a week if you eat 2400? if you eat that much depending on your weight and height, and if you exercise, you will still have a deficit. my TDEE shows I can eat 2600 to maintain my weight or 2077 to lose one pound a week. I've been eating around 1800-2000 a day and working my butt off and it's working for me!0 -
It's apparent you don't understand the "eat more to weight less" idea. The point is to individualize your calorie goal so that you eat enough so that you are at a smaller deficit rather than a huge deficit. No one is saying everyone should eat 2600 calories. They're saying eating 20% below your TDEE, whatever that number may be. If you are a 50 year old woman, clearly your TDEE will be lower and therefore your "eating more" will still be a smaller number. Calculators adjust by age, height, weight, gender, and whatever activity level you have.
I was eating at 2000 and losing around 1 and a half pounds to 2 pounds a week right up till I lost around 28 pounds, I then stalled for a week completely, upped my calories to 2600 and lost another 4 pounds in the following 3 weeks. There are several posts a day of people saying they can't lose weight while eating 1200 calories and I have seen many posts of people saying they stalled and then started losing again when they upped their calories by 400-800.No study has ever found a point at which anyone loses more by eating more. It becomes less efficient to reduce intake at some point (removing 10 more calories might only add 7 to the deficit as metabolism slows) but it never starts going the other way. NEVER.
And you are an 18 year old young man! Please don't confuse yourself with everybody else here. Women cannot eat as much as you. Older men cannot eat as much. Older women, even less. Almost no one can eat as much as an 18YO male! If I ate 2400 cals a day I'd be gaining 5 pounds a week.0 -
I was eating at 2000 and losing around 1 and a half pounds to 2 pounds a week right up till I lost around 28 pounds, I then stalled for a week completely, upped my calories to 2600 and lost another 4 pounds in the following 3 weeks. There are several posts a day of people saying they can't lose weight while eating 1200 calories and I have seen many posts of people saying they stalled and then started losing again when they upped their calories by 400-800.No study has ever found a point at which anyone loses more by eating more. It becomes less efficient to reduce intake at some point (removing 10 more calories might only add 7 to the deficit as metabolism slows) but it never starts going the other way. NEVER.
There are also several saying its not so and offering experience in the other direction. The assertion you make is only supported by unproven internet postings. The other position in the debate has unproven internet postings also and has science and studies to back it up. For some reason, every time one of these people who says they will gain weight or stall at a lower calorie intake is placed in a clinical environment and every calorie of food eaten and effort expended is recorded it doesn't happen.
I have made some of my friends who are "trying" to lose weight upset when they asked me what is working so well for me this time (I have had failed attempts to lose in the past). I tell them the truth - this time I am really doing what I say I am doing. When I cut out snacks I really cut them out; I have none at all. This time whenever I go out to get some exercise I run for miles (lately it is usually 5 or more) and I do this 3 times a week. I do some dumb bell work every day. I look them in the eye and say that every plan I have tried in the past would have worked if I were this faithful to it. They often infer correctly that I am also saying that they are not really doing what they say they are doing.
People are more likely to stick to a plan if it is easy; I get that. A smaller deficit is easier. Pretending it is somehow better through mumbo jumbo bro-science rubs me the wrong way.0 -
How can you gain 5 pounds a week if you eat 2400? if you eat that much depending on your weight and height, and if you exercise, you will still have a deficit. my TDEE shows I can eat 2600 to maintain my weight or 2077 to lose one pound a week. I've been eating around 1800-2000 a day and working my butt off and it's working for me!
The poster who posted that is 61 yo, you are 25. BIG difference. Maybe 5 lbs a week is exaggerated, but age makes a difference. Just wait. You'll see.0 -
Here's food for thought:
If you over-eat 20 calories a day, you will gain 2 pounds in one year.
If you over-eat 20 calories a day, you will gain 50 pounds in 25 years.
...... How easy it might be to under or over estimate your calorie intake when you take a few things into consideration...
1) When they say 1 cup of lettuce = XX calories.... do you ever wonder if they placed the lettuce in the cup loosely or packed it in as tightly as possible? The volume is different either way, even though you've used a real measuring cup.
2) Unless you are using a heart rate monitor and an accurate formula .... do you ever wonder if you're burning more or less calories?
And while we're questioning it... there are other factors to consider when trying to lose weight.
1) What about hormones? What if you are insulin resistant and don't know it? What about cortisol? You know the hormone that increases when you're stressed and makes you gain weight whenever you so much as look at food. (Not really, but if you're super stressed then it just makes losing weight that much more difficult).
2) What about sleep?
It seems like you need to be a nutritional expert/chemist/biologist/crazy mad scientist to really know what's going on inside your body. Doctors go to school for years and years to study the human body and they still haven't figured it out.
I don't know the answers, but I think it's interesting that so many people think they do. Just an observation. Good luck and I hope you find the "right" answer soon.0 -
I was eating at 2000 and losing around 1 and a half pounds to 2 pounds a week right up till I lost around 28 pounds, I then stalled for a week completely, upped my calories to 2600 and lost another 4 pounds in the following 3 weeks. There are several posts a day of people saying they can't lose weight while eating 1200 calories and I have seen many posts of people saying they stalled and then started losing again when they upped their calories by 400-800.No study has ever found a point at which anyone loses more by eating more. It becomes less efficient to reduce intake at some point (removing 10 more calories might only add 7 to the deficit as metabolism slows) but it never starts going the other way. NEVER.
There are also several saying its not so and offering experience in the other direction. The assertion you make is only supported by unproven internet postings. The other position in the debate has unproven internet postings also and has science and studies to back it up. For some reason, every time one of these people who says they will gain weight or stall at a lower calorie intake is placed in a clinical environment and every calorie of food eaten and effort expended is recorded it doesn't happen.
I have made some of my friends who are "trying" to lose weight upset when they asked me what is working so well for me this time (I have had failed attempts to lose in the past). I tell them the truth - this time I am really doing what I say I am doing. When I cut out snacks I really cut them out; I have none at all. This time whenever I go out to get some exercise I run for miles (lately it is usually 5 or more) and I do this 3 times a week. I do some dumb bell work every day. I look them in the eye and say that every plan I have tried in the past would have worked if I were this faithful to it. They often infer correctly that I am also saying that they are not really doing what they say they are doing.
People are more likely to stick to a plan if it is easy; I get that. A smaller deficit is easier. Pretending it is somehow better through mumbo jumbo bro-science rubs me the wrong way.
You are missing my point completely, my TDEE is 3600+ (I do intense weight work 6 days a week for 1 and a half to 2 hours each day) and trolleys for 30-90 minutes 4 times a week, this would have made me in a deficit of 1600 calories yet I stopped losing at that huge a deficit? Then by upping my calories to a deficit of 900-1000 I then started to continue to lose weight, I am just stating my point from personal experience, it was not easier for me, I didn't enjoy eating more at that point and it wasn't easier but I still lost more weight by having less of a deficit. I also stated this has happened to A LOT of people who have previously stated that they were losing weight by eating 1200 calories. They then upped it to around 1600-1800 and started losing again. Bodies do not like having exceptionally small amounts of nutrition, so go continue telling 18 year old females to have a net of 800 calories to lose weight is safe 0
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