HDL/LDL/Cholesterol Won't Budge

leebesstoad

I'm looking for any suggestions for any dietary supplementation ideas people might have above and beyond what I'm currently trying. Here's the situation. Last year at my physical, when I was about at the high point of my weight and worst point of my diet and exercise (or lack thereof), I was at about 200 pounds, my total cholesterol was at 197, my LDL was about 130, my HDL was at 37. This year after many months of exercise, including aerobic and strength training, getting my diet well controlled with good clean eating (no fried foods, minimal fats), my weight was down to about 170, but my total cholesterol was 197, my LDL was about 130 and my HDL was at 37. Nada, zip, zilch. No changes at all. They wouldn't budge. In spite of diet improvement and exercise improvement. The doc doesn't think they are serious enough to consider statins at this time. But we are trying fish oil, a rapid release niacin, and red rice yeast. to see if we can at least move the needle a little.

So does anybody have any other suggestions of things to try diet or supplementation wise that might help even a little?

TIA.

JDBLY11

I would like to know this too. I have similar problems and when I lost weight ( 60 lbs) and started exercising ( walking over an hour several times a week and doing weight machines) last time it did not change.

marsellient

Try plant sterols. I have a similar story: after losing over 30 lb my cholesterol was still high and I really don't want to go on statins. So, I asked for three months. I started fish oil, plant sterols and red rice yeast. Blood tests showed LDL down about half of what the doctor wants to see, but I am trying another three months. I also was able to up the exercise after suffering an injury last summer. I did read that CoQ10 is helpful, as well.
My doctor is convinced that my cholesterol levels are genetic, and was quite surprised that they had come down as much as they had. I'm not really expecting that big a drop again, but we will see.

cwolfman13

soluble fiber...I eat oatmeal at least 5 days per week. Berries like strawberries, blackberries, and raspberries are also good sources. In the veggie kingdom, Brussels sprouts are a good source...I eat them about 2-3 times per week. Also, healthy monounsaturated fats from nuts, nut butters, avocado, olive oil. Keep your long chain saturated fats (red meat and dairy) in check. The less active you are the more important that part is. I'm convinced that limiting my intake of processed foods has helped as well...maybe even more than anything else. I try to get as much nutrient dense, whole foods in my diet as possible...my processed food intake is pretty minimal overall (don't look at yesterday and today though...). I've also eliminated any man made trans fats from hydrogenated oils as well as anything with high fructose corn syrup.

Also, and I have no scientific evidence for this, but I give weight lifting a lot of props for reducing my LDL levels and increasing my HDL levels...I do some cardio, but most of my exercise is in the weight room.

I've completely reversed all of my bad blood work in about 8 months with the above.

socajam

From the Mayo Clinic:

1. Oatmeal, oat bran and high-fiber foods

Oatmeal contains soluble fiber, which reduces your low-density lipoprotein (LDL), the "bad," cholesterol. Soluble fiber is also found in such foods as kidney beans, apples, pears, barley and prunes.

Soluble fiber can reduce the absorption of cholesterol into your bloodstream. Five to 10 grams or more of soluble fiber a day decreases your total and LDL cholesterol. Eating 1 1/2 cups of cooked oatmeal provides 6 grams of fiber. If you add fruit, such as bananas, you'll add about 4 more grams of fiber. To mix it up a little, try steel-cut oatmeal or cold cereal made with oatmeal or oat bran.

2. Fish and omega-3 fatty acids

Eating fatty fish can be heart healthy because of its high levels of omega-3 fatty acids, which can reduce your blood pressure and risk of developing blood clots. In people who have already had heart attacks, fish oil — or omega-3 fatty acids — reduces the risk of sudden death.

The American Heart Association recommends eating at least two servings of fish a week. The highest levels of omega-3 fatty acids are in:

Mackerel
Lake trout
Herring
Sardines
Albacore tuna
Salmon
Halibut

You should bake or grill the fish to avoid adding unhealthy fats. If you don't like fish, you can also get small amounts of omega-3 fatty acids from foods like ground flaxseed or canola oil.

I would skip the canola oil

cwolfman13

Forgot...I also eat a lot of fish...specifically salmon and tuna. I eat salmon and/or tuna 2-3 times per week...I keep my red meat intake to about once per week or so. Lots of fish and chicken. I also cook primarily with olive oil.

leebesstoad

Thanks for all the input so far. Just so you know. I eat quick rolled oats 7 days a week. Oatmeal may be the best diet food ever invented. I eat next to no red meats, and use next to no oils in food prep and rarely if ever eat fried foods. I've added red rice yeast. I don't like fish but I've added a fish oil supplement to Omega 3. I do a lot of weight lifting in addition to the cardio.

I'll certainly look into the CoQ10. At this point, I've certainly been cursing my parents and grandparents. They did this to me. lol. Of course no one in my family has ever had any issue with heart disease either so maybe stressing about the cholesterol numbers isn't really necessary either. But any other ideas are certainly appreciated.

marsellient

Don't forget to look into the plant sterols, too. The research is long time and quite impressive.
Good luck!

MyJourney1960

Thanks for all the input so far. Just so you know. I eat quick rolled oats 7 days a week. Oatmeal may be the best diet food ever invented. I eat next to no red meats, and use next to no oils in food prep and rarely if ever eat fried foods. I've added red rice yeast. I don't like fish but I've added a fish oil supplement to Omega 3. I do a lot of weight lifting in addition to the cardio.

I'll certainly look into the CoQ10. At this point, I've certainly been cursing my parents and grandparents. They did this to me. lol. Of course no one in my family has ever had any issue with heart disease either so maybe stressing about the cholesterol numbers isn't really necessary either. But any other ideas are certainly appreciated.

try old fashioned oats mixed with quick and oat bran (about 1/3 each). that's what worked for me. I would mix it in a big container and every morning take about 3 Tablespoons mix with yogurt or water/milk.

yarwell

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/2/204.long compared moderate with low fat diets, and got better Total/HDL ratios with the higher fat version (33 vs 18% fat). Both were ~17 protein so the higher fat had less carbs.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/5/1025.long found an improvement in Total/HDL ratio by restricting carbohydrates.

http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=415074 concluded that "A low-carbohydrate plant-based diet has lipid-lowering advantages over a high-carbohydrate, low-fat weight-loss diet in improving heart disease risk factors not seen with conventional low-fat diets with animal products."

"Food" for thought.

totalsham

I'm looking for any suggestions for any dietary supplementation ideas people might have above and beyond what I'm currently trying. Here's the situation. Last year at my physical, when I was about at the high point of my weight and worst point of my diet and exercise (or lack thereof), I was at about 200 pounds, my total cholesterol was at 197, my LDL was about 130, my HDL was at 37. This year after many months of exercise, including aerobic and strength training, getting my diet well controlled with good clean eating (no fried foods, minimal fats), my weight was down to about 170, but my total cholesterol was 197, my LDL was about 130 and my HDL was at 37. Nada, zip, zilch. No changes at all. They wouldn't budge. In spite of diet improvement and exercise improvement. The doc doesn't think they are serious enough to consider statins at this time. But we are trying fish oil, a rapid release niacin, and red rice yeast. to see if we can at least move the needle a little.

So does anybody have any other suggestions of things to try diet or supplementation wise that might help even a little?

TIA.

who told you that your cholesterol numbers are bad? they arent.. you are well in normal ranger for your age. Unless you have serious CVD in your family, you are fine.

Edit: only issue i have is your hdl, you need to get that up a tad. and never forget the triglyceride numbers. keep that bad boy down! also, LDL is made of 2 numbers... you need to get to a real doctor and find out the dense ldl number. thats the bad guy.

leonasmith77

Try plant sterols. I have a similar story: after losing over 30 lb my cholesterol was still high and I really don't want to go on statins. So, I asked for three months. I started fish oil, plant sterols and red rice yeast. Blood tests showed LDL down about half of what the doctor wants to see, but I am trying another three months. I also was able to up the exercise after suffering an injury last summer. I did read that CoQ10 is helpful, as well.
My doctor is convinced that my cholesterol levels are genetic, and was quite surprised that they had come down as much as they had. I'm not really expecting that big a drop again, but we will see.

I did the same thing. Plant sterols really helped me keep my cholesterol levels down. Unknown to most people, you can manage bad cholesterol easily by choosing the right types of fat. You need to swap the bad fat with goof fat. There are a lot of cholesterol lowering products available these days, so do make it a point to choose right. One of the products that I'm really excited about is the Flora spread. It's the best alternative to regular oil or butter.

leonasmith77

old fashioned oats can work wonders! It doesn't just keep your cholesterol down, it can also keep you on the right track with your diet.

mockchoc

bump!

JessHealthKick

My dad had success with cutting out all milk from his diet and cutting down on dairy products. Could be a connection to the saturated-fat perhaps?

DatMurse

increase egg, monounsaturated fats, you already weightlift

leonasmith77

Perhaps!

Just so you know, you can get healthier alternatives to dairy products, like Flora, that can lower cholesterol. Hope he gets good results!

DatMurse

I also wanted to let you know. that if you maintain a healthy lifestyle cholesterol is not always an accurate indicator.

Look at the French Paradox.

Avg cholesterol in france is 205 and avg in Colombia is 245. they have lower death of heart disease than countries who have a lower sat fat intake. obviously their cholesterol is higher as well

DatMurse

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1768013/

bring it to your next doctor visit and ask him for his input.

this is a legit study

kdeaux1959

Oatmeal and fiber.

RM10003

Thanks for all the input so far. Just so you know. I eat quick rolled oats 7 days a week. Oatmeal may be the best diet food ever invented. I eat next to no red meats, and use next to no oils in food prep and rarely if ever eat fried foods. I've added red rice yeast. I don't like fish but I've added a fish oil supplement to Omega 3. I do a lot of weight lifting in addition to the cardio.

I'll certainly look into the CoQ10. At this point, I've certainly been cursing my parents and grandparents. They did this to me. lol. Of course no one in my family has ever had any issue with heart disease either so maybe stressing about the cholesterol numbers isn't really necessary either. But any other ideas are certainly appreciated.

My husband has had a lot of success with fish oil in getting triglycerides down, so hopefully that'll work for you. I do wonder if the quick rolled oats are as heart healthy as the non-quick oats, though? I'd think they'd have less fiber, but maybe I'm wrong.

I was lucky enough that my numbers responded really well to changes in exercise and diet (LDL from 119 to 88, woot!), but before they did, one of my doctors was telling me about a test called a cardiac calcium scan--basically it's like a CAT scan of your heart and they can see the level of calcium deposits, which is your real risk factor for heart disease. She said insurance doesn't pay for it, and it costs a few hundred dollars, but it's a way of assessing risk that can help you avoid statins if that's your goal. She had had the test done as her total cholesterol is over 200 despite being very thin, and it showed she had no deposits, so she doesn't personally take statins.

carolin8282

I've been on the Paleo diet for the last 3 months and just had my cholesterol numbers run:

TC=178
HDL=76
TRG=58
LDL=90
non-HDL=102
TC/HDL=2.3

Doc told me my numbers are excellent. I was concerned because I eat 3 eggs everyday and lots of {healthy} fat (50% of my calories come from fat). I'm shocked that my cholesterol numbers are so good despite the fact that I eat a lot of fat - to me, this confirms that conventional diet advice is way off!

JaceyMarieS

Thanks for all the input so far. Just so you know. I eat quick rolled oats 7 days a week. Oatmeal may be the best diet food ever invented. I eat next to no red meats, and use next to no oils in food prep and rarely if ever eat fried foods. I've added red rice yeast. I don't like fish but I've added a fish oil supplement to Omega 3. I do a lot of weight lifting in addition to the cardio.

I've done almost completely the opposite. I now avoid all grains, including oatmeal. Eat red meat 1-2 times per week and always use oil (coconut, butter/bacon fat) in my cooking. Like you, I've added a fish oil supplement and do 1/2 hours of weight training 3x per week in addition to 30-60 minutes of cardio per week. In addition to normalizing my blood sugar, my lipid panel has improved drastically

total cholesterol was 207 - now 161
HDL was 37 - now 53
LDL was 136 - now 89
Triglycerides was 169 - now 86

LauraDotts

A low fat, high fiber diet will not rectify your lipid panel. A high fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate diet will. I know that is contrary to everything you have ever been taught but google it and you will find many, many testimonies that it is true.

Start with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs&feature=share

MG_Fit

I'm not a medical person by any means. From my experience, it could just be genetics.

Carnivor0us

Take krill oil supplements and consume grass-feed beef. Very favorable fatty-acid profiles.

Mjhnbgff

Your HDL needs to be higher. Other than that, I don't see what is wrong with your numbers. Triglycerides is missing but I assume they're acceptable if your doctor doesn't want to put you on statins. My doctor told me if it gets to 200 then statins are mandatory. I had my cholesterol tested last month and my doctor and I had a very interesting conversation about the results.

He told me that it used to be they'd tell you a cholesterol level of over 200 was bad. Now they look at the ratio of your cholesterol and your HDL. If that ratio falls within a certain range of what they consider normal then there's nothing to worry about. I don't remember my numbers exactly but I do remember that even though my cholesterol is 219, my doctor isn't worried because my triglycerides are very low and the ratio of my HDL to cholesterol is better than average. My HDL level is quite high. The only thing I did to raise it and lower my triglicerides was diet and exercise. If your numbers really are bad and you're eating right and exercising, it could just be genetic. Most of the cholesterol in our bodies is produced by our livers and some people naturally produce a lot of cholesterol. It is my understanding that statins wills shut down cholesterol production in the liver. Obviously, talk to your doctor if you still have concerns.

erinsueburns

Thanks for all the input so far. Just so you know. I eat quick rolled oats 7 days a week. Oatmeal may be the best diet food ever invented. I eat next to no red meats, and use next to no oils in food prep and rarely if ever eat fried foods. I've added red rice yeast. I don't like fish but I've added a fish oil supplement to Omega 3. I do a lot of weight lifting in addition to the cardio.

I've done almost completely the opposite. I now avoid all grains, including oatmeal. Eat red meat 1-2 times per week and always use oil (coconut, butter/bacon fat) in my cooking. Like you, I've added a fish oil supplement and do 1/2 hours of weight training 3x per week in addition to 30-60 minutes of cardio per week. In addition to normalizing my blood sugar, my lipid panel has improved drastically

total cholesterol was 207 - now 161
HDL was 37 - now 53
LDL was 136 - now 89
Triglycerides was 169 - now 86

I am in the same boat as you. The only thing that finally moved those numbers for me was replacing a good percentage of my carbs with healthier fats.

This was my starting point for information:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats-full-story/

Date 5/13/09
HDL 40
LDL 206
VLDL 44
Cholesterol 290
Risk Ratio 5.2
Triglyc. 221

to

Date 10/3/2012
HDL 51
LDL 159
VLDL 19
Cholesterol 221
Risk Ratio 3.1
Triglyc. 93


While those numbers aren't superb, they are really good for me, at one point my triglycerides were over 400 with correspondingly high VLDL numbers. These improvements were from going back to real butter instead of margarine, going back to real half and half instead of nonfat dairy creamer, quitting eating oatmeal and taking soluble fiber supplements, eating meats instead of pastas, using olive oil to cook with. I try to limit myself to 30% carbs and I do around 40% fats, but a large percentage of that is unsaturated fats. I eat ALOT of nut butters and nuts, I eat dark chocolate.

As for supplements;

Soluble Fiber 3Xday
Fish Oil
Slo-Niacin (avoid these forms of niacin: inositol hexaniacinate and nicotinamide)

As far as red yeast rice goes, when you buy it in the states, it has been stripped of the things that made it beneficial so it is a waste of money.

mrmagee3

A couple things:

1. I believe there are legitimate concerns about using blood cholesterol at anywhere but the highest levels as an indicator for disease risk-factors (including CVD), and the science is starting to bear that out.
2. You don't list your triglycerides, of which high levels of blood triglycerides generally coincide with insulin resistance, and are primarily a function of carbohydrate metabolism. Generally, low fat diets are high in carbohydrates, which create issues for people in that state.
3. Statin drugs can lower your blood serum cholesterol, but that lowering does not correlate into increased patient outcomes.

DatMurse

A couple things:

1. I believe there are legitimate concerns about using blood cholesterol at anywhere but the highest levels as an indicator for disease risk-factors (including CVD), and the science is starting to bear that out.
2. You don't list your triglycerides, of which high levels of blood triglycerides generally coincide with insulin resistance, and are primarily a function of carbohydrate metabolism. Generally, low fat diets are high in carbohydrates, which create issues for people in that state.
3. Statin drugs can lower your blood serum cholesterol, but that lowering does not correlate into increased patient outcomes.

wow someone other than me knows this. I know cholesterol ratio still matters though.


OP never came back but he should increase monounsaturated fats

mrmagee3

wow someone other than me knows this. I know cholesterol ratio still matters though.

Yeah, if you got a really whacked out ratio, something is going on that isn't good. Though I think doing a VAP test to determine LDL particle size is likely a better indicator than just raw numbers.

More fat, less carbs. It's a constant recommendation for people who ask me about things.