HDL/LDL/Cholesterol Won't Budge

carolin8282

I've been on the Paleo diet for the last 3 months and just had my cholesterol numbers run:

TC=178
HDL=76
TRG=58
LDL=90
non-HDL=102
TC/HDL=2.3

Doc told me my numbers are excellent. I was concerned because I eat 3 eggs everyday and lots of {healthy} fat (50% of my calories come from fat). I'm shocked that my cholesterol numbers are so good despite the fact that I eat a lot of fat - to me, this confirms that conventional diet advice is way off!

JaceyMarieS

Thanks for all the input so far. Just so you know. I eat quick rolled oats 7 days a week. Oatmeal may be the best diet food ever invented. I eat next to no red meats, and use next to no oils in food prep and rarely if ever eat fried foods. I've added red rice yeast. I don't like fish but I've added a fish oil supplement to Omega 3. I do a lot of weight lifting in addition to the cardio.

I've done almost completely the opposite. I now avoid all grains, including oatmeal. Eat red meat 1-2 times per week and always use oil (coconut, butter/bacon fat) in my cooking. Like you, I've added a fish oil supplement and do 1/2 hours of weight training 3x per week in addition to 30-60 minutes of cardio per week. In addition to normalizing my blood sugar, my lipid panel has improved drastically

total cholesterol was 207 - now 161
HDL was 37 - now 53
LDL was 136 - now 89
Triglycerides was 169 - now 86

LauraDotts

A low fat, high fiber diet will not rectify your lipid panel. A high fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate diet will. I know that is contrary to everything you have ever been taught but google it and you will find many, many testimonies that it is true.

Start with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs&feature=share

MG_Fit

I'm not a medical person by any means. From my experience, it could just be genetics.

Carnivor0us

Take krill oil supplements and consume grass-feed beef. Very favorable fatty-acid profiles.

Mjhnbgff

Your HDL needs to be higher. Other than that, I don't see what is wrong with your numbers. Triglycerides is missing but I assume they're acceptable if your doctor doesn't want to put you on statins. My doctor told me if it gets to 200 then statins are mandatory. I had my cholesterol tested last month and my doctor and I had a very interesting conversation about the results.

He told me that it used to be they'd tell you a cholesterol level of over 200 was bad. Now they look at the ratio of your cholesterol and your HDL. If that ratio falls within a certain range of what they consider normal then there's nothing to worry about. I don't remember my numbers exactly but I do remember that even though my cholesterol is 219, my doctor isn't worried because my triglycerides are very low and the ratio of my HDL to cholesterol is better than average. My HDL level is quite high. The only thing I did to raise it and lower my triglicerides was diet and exercise. If your numbers really are bad and you're eating right and exercising, it could just be genetic. Most of the cholesterol in our bodies is produced by our livers and some people naturally produce a lot of cholesterol. It is my understanding that statins wills shut down cholesterol production in the liver. Obviously, talk to your doctor if you still have concerns.

erinsueburns

Thanks for all the input so far. Just so you know. I eat quick rolled oats 7 days a week. Oatmeal may be the best diet food ever invented. I eat next to no red meats, and use next to no oils in food prep and rarely if ever eat fried foods. I've added red rice yeast. I don't like fish but I've added a fish oil supplement to Omega 3. I do a lot of weight lifting in addition to the cardio.

I've done almost completely the opposite. I now avoid all grains, including oatmeal. Eat red meat 1-2 times per week and always use oil (coconut, butter/bacon fat) in my cooking. Like you, I've added a fish oil supplement and do 1/2 hours of weight training 3x per week in addition to 30-60 minutes of cardio per week. In addition to normalizing my blood sugar, my lipid panel has improved drastically

total cholesterol was 207 - now 161
HDL was 37 - now 53
LDL was 136 - now 89
Triglycerides was 169 - now 86

I am in the same boat as you. The only thing that finally moved those numbers for me was replacing a good percentage of my carbs with healthier fats.

This was my starting point for information:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats-full-story/

Date 5/13/09
HDL 40
LDL 206
VLDL 44
Cholesterol 290
Risk Ratio 5.2
Triglyc. 221

to

Date 10/3/2012
HDL 51
LDL 159
VLDL 19
Cholesterol 221
Risk Ratio 3.1
Triglyc. 93


While those numbers aren't superb, they are really good for me, at one point my triglycerides were over 400 with correspondingly high VLDL numbers. These improvements were from going back to real butter instead of margarine, going back to real half and half instead of nonfat dairy creamer, quitting eating oatmeal and taking soluble fiber supplements, eating meats instead of pastas, using olive oil to cook with. I try to limit myself to 30% carbs and I do around 40% fats, but a large percentage of that is unsaturated fats. I eat ALOT of nut butters and nuts, I eat dark chocolate.

As for supplements;

Soluble Fiber 3Xday
Fish Oil
Slo-Niacin (avoid these forms of niacin: inositol hexaniacinate and nicotinamide)

As far as red yeast rice goes, when you buy it in the states, it has been stripped of the things that made it beneficial so it is a waste of money.

mrmagee3

A couple things:

1. I believe there are legitimate concerns about using blood cholesterol at anywhere but the highest levels as an indicator for disease risk-factors (including CVD), and the science is starting to bear that out.
2. You don't list your triglycerides, of which high levels of blood triglycerides generally coincide with insulin resistance, and are primarily a function of carbohydrate metabolism. Generally, low fat diets are high in carbohydrates, which create issues for people in that state.
3. Statin drugs can lower your blood serum cholesterol, but that lowering does not correlate into increased patient outcomes.

DatMurse

A couple things:

1. I believe there are legitimate concerns about using blood cholesterol at anywhere but the highest levels as an indicator for disease risk-factors (including CVD), and the science is starting to bear that out.
2. You don't list your triglycerides, of which high levels of blood triglycerides generally coincide with insulin resistance, and are primarily a function of carbohydrate metabolism. Generally, low fat diets are high in carbohydrates, which create issues for people in that state.
3. Statin drugs can lower your blood serum cholesterol, but that lowering does not correlate into increased patient outcomes.

wow someone other than me knows this. I know cholesterol ratio still matters though.


OP never came back but he should increase monounsaturated fats

mrmagee3

wow someone other than me knows this. I know cholesterol ratio still matters though.

Yeah, if you got a really whacked out ratio, something is going on that isn't good. Though I think doing a VAP test to determine LDL particle size is likely a better indicator than just raw numbers.

More fat, less carbs. It's a constant recommendation for people who ask me about things.

DatMurse

wow someone other than me knows this. I know cholesterol ratio still matters though.

Yeah, if you got a really whacked out ratio, something is going on that isn't good. Though I think doing a VAP test to determine LDL particle size is likely a better indicator than just raw numbers.

More fat, less carbs. It's a constant recommendation for people who ask me about things.

well it should be increased mono. a hypocaloric diet helps(atleast with fat people)

jennifershoo

Well, first of all, NEVER take statin. Do your own research, but you'll see that drug is dangerous.

Then, eat lots and lots of leafy greens (kale, spinach, lettuce, collards, herbs, etc).
No trans fats (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils). Read the ingredients list on the label.

Psyllium husk (natural fibers supplement) is supposed to lower the bad cholesterol.

lemonmon1

The best thing you can do to lower your LDL is eat more fiber (fruits and fresh greens) and avoid eating animal fat (completely if possible). Onion and garlic are also known to help lower LDL.

To raise your HDL you can eat avocado, nuts (walnuts, pecans, almonds, peanuts, pistachios, and macadamia nuts), olive oil,
Exercising for 20 minutes a day also increases HDL.

I don't remember what my LDL was at my last physical because I never worry about it, but I know my HDL was 60. I don't eat any animal fat and I eat a ton of fiber. I'm working on increasing it more with the good fats as well.

DatMurse

Well, first of all, NEVER take statin. Do your own research, but you'll see that drug is dangerous.

Then, eat lots and lots of leafy greens (kale, spinach, lettuce, collards, herbs, etc).
No trans fats (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils). Read the ingredients list on the label.

Psyllium husk (natural fibers supplement) is supposed to lower the bad cholesterol.

yea? what is more dangerous. high risk heart attack or statin?

DatMurse

The best thing you can do to lower your LDL is eat more fiber (fruits and fresh greens) and avoid eating animal fat (completely if possible). Onion and garlic are also known to help lower LDL.

To raise your HDL you can eat avocado, nuts (walnuts, pecans, almonds, peanuts, pistachios, and macadamia nuts), olive oil,
Exercising for 20 minutes a day also increases HDL.

I don't remember what my LDL was at my last physical because I never worry about it, but I know my HDL was 60. I don't eat any animal fat and I eat a ton of fiber. I'm working on increasing it more with the good fats as well.

saturated fat does little for your "bad" cholesterol.

jennifershoo

Well, first of all, NEVER take statin. Do your own research, but you'll see that drug is dangerous.

Then, eat lots and lots of leafy greens (kale, spinach, lettuce, collards, herbs, etc).
No trans fats (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils). Read the ingredients list on the label.

Psyllium husk (natural fibers supplement) is supposed to lower the bad cholesterol.

yea? what is more dangerous. high risk heart attack or statin?

Bad Cholesterol doesn't give heart attack. It's inflammation of the arteries that does. Work on reducing your overall inflammation by eating anti-inflammatory foods and your cholesterol will be irrelevent.

jennifershoo

The best thing you can do to lower your LDL is eat more fiber (fruits and fresh greens) and avoid eating animal fat (completely if possible). Onion and garlic are also known to help lower LDL.

To raise your HDL you can eat avocado, nuts (walnuts, pecans, almonds, peanuts, pistachios, and macadamia nuts), olive oil,
Exercising for 20 minutes a day also increases HDL.

I don't remember what my LDL was at my last physical because I never worry about it, but I know my HDL was 60. I don't eat any animal fat and I eat a ton of fiber. I'm working on increasing it more with the good fats as well.

That's a myth created by vegetarians / vegans.

mrmagee3

Well, first of all, NEVER take statin. Do your own research, but you'll see that drug is dangerous.

Then, eat lots and lots of leafy greens (kale, spinach, lettuce, collards, herbs, etc).
No trans fats (hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils). Read the ingredients list on the label.

Psyllium husk (natural fibers supplement) is supposed to lower the bad cholesterol.

yea? what is more dangerous. high risk heart attack or statin?

To create that dichotomy, one must have to believe the following things:
1. Increased blood serum cholesterol causes heart attacks.
2. Statin drugs have a beneficial effect on preventing sudden cardiac death.

There is significant scientific evidence from the last 50 years that would lead one to question both of those things.

lemonmon1

The best thing you can do to lower your LDL is eat more fiber (fruits and fresh greens) and avoid eating animal fat (completely if possible). Onion and garlic are also known to help lower LDL.

To raise your HDL you can eat avocado, nuts (walnuts, pecans, almonds, peanuts, pistachios, and macadamia nuts), olive oil,
Exercising for 20 minutes a day also increases HDL.

I don't remember what my LDL was at my last physical because I never worry about it, but I know my HDL was 60. I don't eat any animal fat and I eat a ton of fiber. I'm working on increasing it more with the good fats as well.

That's a myth created by vegetarians / vegans.

It's not a myth, it's a fact. Take it or leave it.

mrmagee3

The best thing you can do to lower your LDL is eat more fiber (fruits and fresh greens) and avoid eating animal fat (completely if possible). Onion and garlic are also known to help lower LDL.

To raise your HDL you can eat avocado, nuts (walnuts, pecans, almonds, peanuts, pistachios, and macadamia nuts), olive oil,
Exercising for 20 minutes a day also increases HDL.

I don't remember what my LDL was at my last physical because I never worry about it, but I know my HDL was 60. I don't eat any animal fat and I eat a ton of fiber. I'm working on increasing it more with the good fats as well.

That's a myth created by vegetarians / vegans.

It's not a myth, it's a fact. Take it or leave it.

It might be a fact that your eating habits have caused your blood results, but that's hardly a fact across the board. High fat (including those high in animal fat) low carb diets are very effective at raising HDL and lowering triglyceride levels. Total LDL is not a good determinant for disease risk factor, as large particle LDL is quite benign. Small particle LDL has a much stronger correlation to negative health outcomes.