What are the bad carbs?
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I have wondered about this for a while. I do have a sibling who seems to be more carb sensitive than me, and I came to the conclusion that maybe we did inherit different genes from our parents when it comes to carb tolerance.bizarrefish wrote: »Carbohydrate, consumed in sufficient quantity, will absolutely stimulate weight gain in a way other nutrients do not, due in part to the action on the hormone insulin, which is essentially a handbrake for your metabolism.
Different people seem to be born with different 'tolerances', that is, some can eat more carbohydrate than others and not have any ill effects. Others may start seeing effects in teenagerhood. One possible reason for this diversity is ancestry.
I am not denying personal responsibility, it plays a major role in one's success. However, if someone is unlucky('insulin resistant'), and continues to eat carbohydrate at a level which maintains that condition, telling them to 'just exercise more' is essentially like telling a person eating sleeping pills to 'just stay awake'. They can do it, but their entire body is screaming at them not to. This is suboptimal, as willpower is a finite resource.
When insulin resistance shows up, people start needing to eat less and less and exercise more and more, just to maintain weight, all whilst feeling like they are malnourished. They can also start getting sick with fatigue, depression, things not healing correctly and bad blood numbers.
To say that calories is all that matters is out-and-out wrong and, amusingly, a violation of the second law of thermodynamics - http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9 .
Anyone who has put diesel in a petrol car should be able to appreciate that there is more to a well-running engine than just the number of calories in the tank.
There is some (a lot, in my view) evidence to suggest that the condition of insulin resistance is built up through carb-eating, specifically rapidly-absorbed (high-GI) carbs, such as juices, anything made with some kind of flour and even potatoes.
Carbs less likely to produce this condition include oatmeal.
Calories in the form of different nutrients absolutely have differing effects on the whole body, specifically on the 'calories out' side of the equation. In the grand scheme of things, one cannot control 'calories out', therefore a calorie-centric approach to energy partitioning (fattening and unfattening) is not always going to be of use.
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bizarrefish wrote: »Carbohydrate, consumed in sufficient quantity, will absolutely stimulate weight gain in a way other nutrients do not, due in part to the action on the hormone insulin, which is essentially a handbrake for your metabolism.
Different people seem to be born with different 'tolerances', that is, some can eat more carbohydrate than others and not have any ill effects. Others may start seeing effects in teenagerhood. One possible reason for this diversity is ancestry.
I am not denying personal responsibility, it plays a major role in one's success. However, if someone is unlucky('insulin resistant'), and continues to eat carbohydrate at a level which maintains that condition, telling them to 'just exercise more' is essentially like telling a person eating sleeping pills to 'just stay awake'. They can do it, but their entire body is screaming at them not to. This is suboptimal, as willpower is a finite resource.
When insulin resistance shows up, people start needing to eat less and less and exercise more and more, just to maintain weight, all whilst feeling like they are malnourished. They can also start getting sick with fatigue, depression, things not healing correctly and bad blood numbers.
To say that calories is all that matters is out-and-out wrong and, amusingly, a violation of the second law of thermodynamics - http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9 .
Anyone who has put diesel in a petrol car should be able to appreciate that there is more to a well-running engine than just the number of calories in the tank.
There is some (a lot, in my view) evidence to suggest that the condition of insulin resistance is built up through carb-eating, specifically rapidly-absorbed (high-GI) carbs, such as juices, anything made with some kind of flour and even potatoes.
Carbs less likely to produce this condition include oatmeal.
Calories in the form of different nutrients absolutely have differing effects on the whole body, specifically on the 'calories out' side of the equation. In the grand scheme of things, one cannot control 'calories out', therefore a calorie-centric approach to energy partitioning (fattening and unfattening) is not always going to be of use.
I have a bone to pick with this post, and even a bigger bone to pick with that "study". Either Feinman and Fine somehow forgot how chemistry works, or they are intentionally stating things that are "technically" true on to mislead into an agenda, with some statements being blatantly wrong.. Entropy does not work in isolation in chemistry. Have they intentionally left out the energetic factor?
And what's up with using thermogenesis as a means towards their end? Wouldn't a more logical replacement be to go back to near-zero fat diets and the whole "fat makes you fat" mantra?
I'll stop there... really have no desire to discuss this.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Well no, I don't think they would be bad for you in that case, but I'd say they're still to be eating in moderation, like the other poster said. However, I could still see it as being "bad carbs" since the "good carbs" should make up more of one's diet.njitaliana wrote: »Here are some links to help answer your question:
http://www.nutritionmd.org/nutrition_tips/nutrition_tips_understand_foods/carbs_versus.html
http://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/101/nutrition-basics/good-carbs-bad-carbs.aspx
http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/carbs/simple-vs-complex-carbohydrates.html#b
So I will ask again....
What it I just finished training heavy?
What is I just finished training heavy while bulking?
Would some white bread or white rice be bad for me?
Would some write rice and steak be bad for me since the whole GI rating of the rice chages?
Bumping this because I guess those that are preaching about bad carbs didn't see it.
Why? Am i going to somehow get fat if I eat the same calories of "bad carbs" that I did "good carbs"?
Good and bad is subjective and based on your goals. If you want something that will digest more quickly, you'd opt for a simple carb. Maybe you'd opt for complex carbs in the AM because it keeps you fuller.
And in 40 years some scientist will probably publish a paper discussing the negatives of consuming too many complex carbs vs simple carbs and everyone will thus preach that "bad" carbs are now complex carbs.
Or you are like me and don't have any idea wtf a simple and complex carb is because food is food is food.0 -
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I have wondered about this for a while. I do have a sibling who seems to be more carb sensitive than me, and I came to the conclusion that maybe we did inherit different genes from our parents when it comes to carb tolerance.bizarrefish wrote: »Carbohydrate, consumed in sufficient quantity, will absolutely stimulate weight gain in a way other nutrients do not, due in part to the action on the hormone insulin, which is essentially a handbrake for your metabolism.
Different people seem to be born with different 'tolerances', that is, some can eat more carbohydrate than others and not have any ill effects. Others may start seeing effects in teenagerhood. One possible reason for this diversity is ancestry.
I am not denying personal responsibility, it plays a major role in one's success. However, if someone is unlucky('insulin resistant'), and continues to eat carbohydrate at a level which maintains that condition, telling them to 'just exercise more' is essentially like telling a person eating sleeping pills to 'just stay awake'. They can do it, but their entire body is screaming at them not to. This is suboptimal, as willpower is a finite resource.
When insulin resistance shows up, people start needing to eat less and less and exercise more and more, just to maintain weight, all whilst feeling like they are malnourished. They can also start getting sick with fatigue, depression, things not healing correctly and bad blood numbers.
To say that calories is all that matters is out-and-out wrong and, amusingly, a violation of the second law of thermodynamics - http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9 .
Anyone who has put diesel in a petrol car should be able to appreciate that there is more to a well-running engine than just the number of calories in the tank.
There is some (a lot, in my view) evidence to suggest that the condition of insulin resistance is built up through carb-eating, specifically rapidly-absorbed (high-GI) carbs, such as juices, anything made with some kind of flour and even potatoes.
Carbs less likely to produce this condition include oatmeal.
Calories in the form of different nutrients absolutely have differing effects on the whole body, specifically on the 'calories out' side of the equation. In the grand scheme of things, one cannot control 'calories out', therefore a calorie-centric approach to energy partitioning (fattening and unfattening) is not always going to be of use.
"carb sensitive" in what way? they gain more weight when eating more carbs? in that case it's because they are eating more food than they require to maintain their weight, and carby foods can easily be calorie-dense nad thus easy to over-eat. Or maybe they have diabetes; type 2s on here will quickly chime in about how ALL carbs must be monitored, not just "bad" carbs/sugar.0 -
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Simple ("bad") carbs are usually less nutrient-dense and raise your blood sugar faster (then drop it faster, making you feel hungry again sooner). These are things like candy, white rice, sugar, white flour, crackers, cookies, white bread, fruit juice, regular pasta, and to some extent white potatos (though they do have some redeeming fiber if you eat the skin). These are things it's best to have in moderation.
Complex ("good") carbs are usually more nutrient-dense and raise your blood sugar more slowly, for longer. They usually have more fiber, which (in addition to helping your GI system & cholesterol level) helps you feel more full for longer. These are things it's good to have more of, but keep it in a healthy amount & don't go over your calories for the day ... vegetables of all sorts, whole grains, whole grain bread, whole wheat pasta, and fruits (even though they have fructose, a simple sugar, they also have fiber).
Here's some very simply-stated info about simple & complex carbs.
http://www.kosairchildrenshospital.com/mobile.cfm?id=764&action=detail&ref=39821
And a discussion of empty calories.
http://www.choosemyplate.gov/weight-management-calories/calories/empty-calories.html
But for me, simple carbs are the things that got me ridiculously fast times as a runner. Simple carbs are the ones that spike my insulin to transport amino acids into my muscle cells after weight training and give me a body of someone 20 years younger. I classify them as 'GOOOOOOD'.
When I'm being sedentary, I don't need too much of them and as long as they don't take me over my calorie needs, they are delicious and healthy. I make sure I've met my macro and micro needs first though.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Every single one of your posts has to do with Twinkies or Donuts. What's your obsession with making up stories of how people eat? Then you always say 98 or 99% of the people eat that. I guess I'm in the 1% because it's been years.prettykitty1515 wrote: »
Your obsession with twinkies is showing again.prettykitty1515 wrote: »Twinkies are bad carbs, based on the recommendations of 99 out of 100 diets. And guess which is the one lone diet that tells you that when it comes to carbs, they are all the same, whether they are from Twinkies or veggies?
OK, how about Devil Dogs?
My theory was validated. MFP is the one pro-Twinkie (or pro-Devil Dog) diet.
I can't eat either due to allergies so I'll join you in the 1%.
Nice. I guess it's a party.
Joining the party. I don't eat them either.
I do, however have to have a laugh at the idea of being "pro-Devil Dog" (or Twinkie, or Donut). I'm imagining a crowd, with signs. With pictures. Half the crowd has thumbs up under the images of the snack cakes, the rest has the confections in the middle of those big red circles with the lines through them. The crowd trash talks and hurls insults at each other. A big straw man sits on stage, looking out over the crowd, and smiles.
Count me in. I'd love a Twinkie. But I don't think I've seen one in 10 years plus. And donuts here suck.
So I don't eat them by default.
In that wild crowd, I'm the guy dancing to the invisible bong drums and wearing red Lycra.0 -
I just popped in to agree that Twinkies are gross.0
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Pick complex carbohydrates more often, that's all.
http://www.bellwood.ca/blog/addiction-treatment/carbohydrates-the-simple-and-complex-truth/
The water inflation method is flawed. chia seeds gotta beat them all out and they expand terrifically (insoluble fiber).
The simple vs. complex breakdown is flawed and means very little (as with fruit being a simple carb as normally defined and chips a complex carb). Also, generally-speaking foods are a mix.
I was pleased to notice, when over at diabetes.org in connection with another thread today that they don't go on about simple and complex, which is so commonly misunderstood or misused, but starches and fiber and sugars, which make up the contents of the various carbs in different proportions.
Ideally you should get a mix of these foods types of carbs, a decent amount of fiber, and watch the amount of high sugar, high calorie, low nutrient foods (although in those the calories are quite often largely from fat, not carbs and specifically not sugars).
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prettykitty1515 wrote: »
Your obsession with twinkies is showing again.prettykitty1515 wrote: »Twinkies are bad carbs, based on the recommendations of 99 out of 100 diets. And guess which is the one lone diet that tells you that when it comes to carbs, they are all the same, whether they are from Twinkies or veggies?
OK, how about Devil Dogs?
My theory was validated. MFP is the one pro-Twinkie (or pro-Devil Dog) diet.
This makes no sense.
I don't even know what a Devil Dog is. Seriously, if you think everyone here wants to eat Twinkies constantly, you should see someone about your issue with projection. It's you who apparently thinks that without strict rules you'd eat Twinkies 24/7. And sorry to be a snob, but IMO that means you have poor taste.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Pick complex carbohydrates more often, that's all.
http://www.bellwood.ca/blog/addiction-treatment/carbohydrates-the-simple-and-complex-truth/
The water inflation method is flawed. chia seeds gotta beat them all out and they expand terrifically (insoluble fiber).
The simple vs. complex breakdown is flawed and means very little (as with fruit being a simple carb as normally defined and chips a complex carb). Also, generally-speaking foods are a mix.
I was pleased to notice, when over at diabetes.org in connection with another thread today that they don't go on about simple and complex, which is so commonly misunderstood or misused, but starches and fiber and sugars, which make up the contents of the various carbs in different proportions.
Ideally you should get a mix of these foods types of carbs, a decent amount of fiber, and watch the amount of high sugar, high calorie, low nutrient foods (although in those the calories are quite often largely from fat, not carbs and specifically not sugars).
Absolutely. The whole complex/simple thing should never be used.0 -
girlviernes wrote: »carbs are generally very good. Many healthy world diets have their basis in carbs like rice and pasta. However, you are vulnerable to problems with carbs if you eat very large portions, don't exercise regularly, don't get enough fat, protein, and fiber.
More seriously, OP, this is right on the money.
In a sedentary world like many of us live in, you will want to watch the serving sizes and amount of carbs you eat and be careful to get a good amount of calories from protein and healthy fat and the most nutrient dense carbs like fruits and veggies (and beans and whole grains and starches like potatoes and sweet potatoes and corn are also good, but again just be careful with serving size). Plenty of other carbs are delicious and I would never cut them out of my diet, but I am conscious of how much I'm eating. If you are very active, that might be a reason to eat more carbs, of course--I tend to eat more when I'm exercising a lot.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »prettykitty1515 wrote: »
Your obsession with twinkies is showing again.prettykitty1515 wrote: »Twinkies are bad carbs, based on the recommendations of 99 out of 100 diets. And guess which is the one lone diet that tells you that when it comes to carbs, they are all the same, whether they are from Twinkies or veggies?
OK, how about Devil Dogs?
My theory was validated. MFP is the one pro-Twinkie (or pro-Devil Dog) diet.
This makes no sense.
I don't even know what a Devil Dog is. Seriously, if you think everyone here wants to eat Twinkies constantly, you should see someone about your issue with projection. It's you who apparently thinks that without strict rules you'd eat Twinkies 24/7. And sorry to be a snob, but IMO that means you have poor taste.
Seriously. Butterscotch Krimpets are way better. At least they used to be. Who knows what happened to Tasty Kake when they stopped being local... I haven't had one of those in almost 20 years. Stupid celiac disease.
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I don't eat twinkies or donuts. I do tend to eat more whole grain carbs than simple carbs because I have found that I am fuller longer and feel better with so-called "slow carbs."
However, I also eat cookies (had Girl Scout cookies today:) and fit other goodies in when and where I can, without going over calories. To me what is healthy is not only what is the most ideal diet on paper but the one you are most likely to enjoy and adhere to for the rest of your life.
That may be why 99 out of 100 anti-twinkie diets fail.0 -
emily_stew wrote: »I would like to be added to the list of twinkie-eaters. I've already been accused of eating solely twinkies and being a shill for Big Sugar several times in the last week or two, so I think that makes me one of the cool kids now. Might as well join the dark side. Actually, I don't really like Twinkies, but I'll take a couple of those instead:
Or a donut. MMM donuts.
PS- there's no such thing as "good" or "bad" carbs. The source and amount of carbs a person gets in their diet is dependent on context to make it good or bad (if you can even use those terms), and will also depend on a person's individual goals and needs..
I like biting the side, and then licking the cream out. Mmmmm.0
This discussion has been closed.
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