Mindful Eating vice Calorie Counting
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The problem is not calorie counting, it's your attitude toward it. If you want to view it as a "jail" and "slavery" then, guess what? That is what it becomes for you. I choose to view it as a liberating tool that literally allows me to have my cake and eat, it too. I can eat what I want within certain parameters and still maintain a happy, healthy weight. Plus it's totally user-friendly, and completely FREE.
Know what I see as slavery? Being a slave to one's own impulses, and being perpetually bombarded with "portion distortions" with no way to counter them. With counting calories, I am in control of my body, not the other way around.
Change your attitude, and everything else will get so much easier. Stop thinking of it as something you HAVE to do, versus something you CHOOSE to do every day, for your own health and self-esteem.0 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »The problem is not calorie counting, it's your attitude toward it. If you want to view it as a "jail" and "slavery" then, guess what? That is what it becomes for you. I choose to view it as a liberating tool that literally allows me to have my cake and eat, it too. I can eat what I want within certain parameters and still maintain a happy, healthy weight. Plus it's totally user-friendly, and completely FREE.
Know what I see as slavery? Being a slave to one's own impulses, and being perpetually bombarded with "portion distortions" with no way to counter them. With counting calories, I am in control of my body, not the other way around.
Change your attitude, and everything else will get so much easier. Stop thinking of it as something you HAVE to do, versus something you CHOOSE to do every day, for your own health and self-esteem.
Nice way of looking at it. "Free" doesn't always equate to comfortable, not right way anyhow.
Random sidebar: I clicked on your profile because I was mesmerized by muscles in your profile pic (you rock btw) and I took a peek your food diary. It made me sad because.....KROGER! We don't have Krogers here. I lived in TN for a short period of time and my parents lived there up until quite recently and Kroger is huge there. Almost everything I by is cheaper at Kroger. They haven't made their way up North unfortunately. /randomwhining.0 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »The problem is not calorie counting, it's your attitude toward it. If you want to view it as a "jail" and "slavery" then, guess what? That is what it becomes for you. I choose to view it as a liberating tool that literally allows me to have my cake and eat, it too. I can eat what I want within certain parameters and still maintain a happy, healthy weight. Plus it's totally user-friendly, and completely FREE.
Know what I see as slavery? Being a slave to one's own impulses, and being perpetually bombarded with "portion distortions" with no way to counter them. With counting calories, I am in control of my body, not the other way around.
Change your attitude, and everything else will get so much easier. Stop thinking of it as something you HAVE to do, versus something you CHOOSE to do every day, for your own health and self-esteem.
Nice way of looking at it. "Free" doesn't always equate to comfortable, not right way anyhow.
Random sidebar: I clicked on your profile because I was mesmerized by muscles in your profile pic (you rock btw) and I took a peak your food diary. It made me sad because.....KROGER! We don't have Krogers here. I lived in TN for a short period of time and my parents lived there up until quite recently and Kroger is huge there. Almost everything I by is cheaper at Kroger. They haven't made their way up North unfortunately. /randomwhining.
Random sidebar reply: We don't actually have Kogers here in AZ, either. We have Fry's, which is a sister company of Kroger, and all their generic stuff is Kroger brand. Same thing I guess, if you don't want to nitpick. What do you have, Meijer's?
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AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »The problem is not calorie counting, it's your attitude toward it. If you want to view it as a "jail" and "slavery" then, guess what? That is what it becomes for you. I choose to view it as a liberating tool that literally allows me to have my cake and eat, it too. I can eat what I want within certain parameters and still maintain a happy, healthy weight. Plus it's totally user-friendly, and completely FREE.
Know what I see as slavery? Being a slave to one's own impulses, and being perpetually bombarded with "portion distortions" with no way to counter them. With counting calories, I am in control of my body, not the other way around.
Change your attitude, and everything else will get so much easier. Stop thinking of it as something you HAVE to do, versus something you CHOOSE to do every day, for your own health and self-esteem.
Nice way of looking at it. "Free" doesn't always equate to comfortable, not right way anyhow.
Random sidebar: I clicked on your profile because I was mesmerized by muscles in your profile pic (you rock btw) and I took a peak your food diary. It made me sad because.....KROGER! We don't have Krogers here. I lived in TN for a short period of time and my parents lived there up until quite recently and Kroger is huge there. Almost everything I by is cheaper at Kroger. They haven't made their way up North unfortunately. /randomwhining.
Random sidebar reply: We don't actually have Kogers here in AZ, either. We have Fry's, which is a sister company of Kroger, and all their generic stuff is Kroger brand. Same thing I guess, if you don't want to nitpick. What do you have, Meijer's?
Nope, the big one's here are Cub Foods (huge, bad produce,) Rainbow (similar to Cub but smaller usually,) Lunds and Byerly's (good stuff, super expensive.)
Believe it or not the best deals on GOOD produce around here is Whole Foods and the local co-op, which is strange because they jack the prices on pretty much everything else. I usually go to 3 different grocery stores to complete my list. Luckily they are all close to home
**Ugh you caught me before my edit "peak" ewe.0 -
People go on about 'can you do this for the rest of your life' and 'its a lifestyle change' and seem fine with that statement - but can you really imagine logging for the rest of your life? Logging is a tool, and imo far better and sustainable 'tools' are to learn how to mindfully eat and to adapt your environment/practices to make that easier. Logging for some amount of time may do that - but it is by no means necessary to do for everyone, especially in the long run.
People seem to be confused with what mindful eating it. Mindful eating is not eating whatever you want. It's well, being mindful.
Anecdotal: I logged as accurately as possible for about 18 months - 12 months of initial weight loss and then the rest when bulking/cutting. I rarely log anymore and have no issues maintain or even cutting weight. I also have no issues getting enough protein (the macro I care about) as I am 'mindful' of what I am eating in the day and do a sort of mental calculation to make sure I am getting enough. When I need/want to cut more aggressively and/or dial my macros in more, then I do log.
I do plan on logging for the rest of my life, if it proves sufficiently helpful. I need some help staying focused (just my personality), so a little added obsessiveness is useful. I'll plan to experiment with just relying on a weight range on the scale and adjusting if I go above it, and I may take some days off from logging, but if needed I can stick with this long term.
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You might be able to do both... my thoughts are that you could prepare a meal with a certain number of calories - you are allowed to eat the whole thing BUT you have to eat it slowly... and if you think "Maybe I should stop" even before you are done, just stop.
Say for example you have 1500 calories for a day. You say to yourself - each meal is a max of 500 (you could set different number though if you want and obviously that might not be your actual calorie goal). Then you can pre-package 500 calorie meals, and eat 3 times a day. If you don't finish, you stop eating and put it back in the fridge.
If at the end of the day, you're pining for a snack, you pull out the leftovers and have that. If there's none left, you remind yourself about eating mindfully and that your body doesn't need a snack even if you want one.
That might work for a little while. I imagine this kind of plan will need to become more flexible as time goes. You might have to change it every month or so.
So... you kind of only have to calorie count once a day while learning portion sizes.0 -
I am also a proponant of intuitive eating but I do count calories. I plan my day ahead on MFP and then, when I'm eating (only when I'm hungry), I chew slowly and really taste the food. I only eat food I REALLY like. By the time I have eaten my favorite part of the meal this way, I usually find I don't feel that strongly about eating the next thing I have logged because I'm not hungry anymore because it took me so long to eat the first thing and since I really enjoyed it, I don't feel desperate for something sweet, salty or whatever. The next time I'm hungry, I eat something I didn't earlier (again in a mindful way). This makes the food I've planned for the day go farther and sometimes I find I didn't need to eat it all and I have some calories left over because each time I eat I am really satisfied. Combineing. both methods is really beneficial for me.0
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You need a blood glucose meter (mine was ~$15, plus a giant pack of test strips for $10). The studies have used 7 weeks of blood sugar testing to train you, so you might need more test strips than that.
Hummmm... interesting comment. When you put it that way, I think I would rather log then stick myself with a sharp object several times a day. But that is just me.
Yeah, I have a doctor who thinks it might help me re-identify what hunger feels like, so I eat more and stop losing weight. I haven't made it over the finger-pricking hump. And, AFAICT from their studies - it won't make me stop losing weight until I have a BMI around 20, which is lower than my doc wants me to be.
However, if my BMI gets that low - I'll poke myself 20 times a day until I learn.0 -
You might want to check out "The Thin Woman's Brain: Re-wiring the Brain for Permanent Weight Loss" to understand those mixed hunger signals- is it actual hunger, or just an emotional response to something else? Discovered it while browsing Amazon a couple weeks ago and it is like nothing I've ever read (believe me, I've read more weight loss books than I can count). Explains how to reprogram the brain to eat mindfully and not "like a piranha" (as the author describes her eating habits). Smart and funny. Highly recommended.0
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I suggest trying calorie counting for a while as, like others have said, this will get you used to portion control and will make you more aware of how much you are consuming through lots of practice.
I am a big believer in mindfulness as it has really helped with my anxiety, but it to be successful you do need practice! It's not just about knowing when you've had enough, but being aware and present in your body so that you can exercise self control even when you're not sure about the signals. Try looking up some mindfulness exercises online and practicing the techniques.
What I've started doing as well is having one day per week (Sunday) that I don't log, but rather than taking this as a 'cheat day' this is my day to practice mindful eating and utilize what I know about serving sizes and healthy choices. If I'm still meeting my goals after doing this a while I can try doing Saturday and Sunday and hopefully transition to more days once ive reached my goal good luck! 0 -
prettykitty1515 wrote: »The vast majority of people who are the correct weight do not count calories.
If you can't count calories, find foods that fill you up. Every person is different. I can eat one large avocado with slices of tomatoes for lunch, and I'm done. Or, I can eat a portion of pasta that has the same calories as the avocado and tomatoes, and feel famished. I also have no control over how much junk food I can eat, so I don't keep it in my house.
This assumes that people eat because they are physically hungry. That's not the case for emotional eaters much of the time (or they simply perceive themselves as hungry regardless), so filling up seems unlikely to work. My issue was never physical hunger and I struggled with emotional eating (and still do from time to time).
Similarly, lots of people are exposed to "junk" food outside of their house. I never kept it in mine when I was fat (I keep ice cream there now, without problem). However, I ate plenty of it at work, where it is usually freely available. There are also, of course, stores.0 -
I tried "mindful eating" when I started running. I lost zero pounds.
So I decided to try calorie counting for a month. And do it right. Meaning I weighed every single thing that went into my mouth and stuck to my calorie goal no matter how much I wanted to eat something else. So I committed for the month.
After that month was over I had lost 7lbs. It works and it really wasn't as bad as I was making it out to be. It really only took 5 minutes a day. So I stuck with it. I find that when I stick with calorie counting and logging, I lose weight. When I don't, I gain weight. I'd be an idiot to not keep calorie counting.0 -
I'm losing without counting calories. I do sometimes ignore hunger if I don't think I should be hungry, though. I also don't make an attempt to eat the same number of calories per day. On days I'm not very hungry I eat light, that way when I have one of those days when I want to eat everything in site, I can eat a little more (not everything though!).0
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NoelFigart1 wrote: »I can't eat the right amount to have a healthy body weight by eating according to hunger, so I count calories.
There are people whose appetites are great at fueling them exactly when they need to. That's awesome. There are also people with 20/20 vision. Also awesome.
Just not me.
Yep, this.
Now, I don't think this means that one MUST count calories. I lost in the past by focusing on meal composition and portion size and excluding other eating, and not counting. Although I count now, it's largely out of interest and to fit in somewhat more indulgent foods from time to time, to help make it more sustainable, but otherwise I do the same thing.
What I do know is that I can't rely on hunger signals, but I can teach my body when to be hungry pretty easily and then rely on habit plus my idea of the right amount/composition to eat.
I don't think eating to hunger alone will ever work for me and I've stopped thinking it should. I'm actually skeptical that that's how most humans work. We have not existed throughout human history eating when hungry from a menu of endlessly available foods, after all. Even apart from scarcity, which was more often than not an issue, we ate according to custom and tradition--a specific number of meals per day, given amounts often, certainly rather traditional composition. Our current ability to just eat what we want when we want with no restrictions and often no social enforcement of norms (I'll eat by myself in my car or whatever) is pretty unusual, after all.
My current eating to habit and mealtime really isn't much different than how I grew up or how I think most people have traditionally eaten. It's hardly a real restriction.
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herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »The number of people who make the assumption that calorie counting is the only method of regulating calorie intake is baffling to me.
Calorie counting is a great awareness tool that works really for some people. Most people should do it for at least the short term while they also build on better food habits.
If you do not like calorie counting you should strive to develop habits around food that allow you to not have to track calories. But this is not the same thing as "just eating mindfully".
You may need to learn better food selection habits. You may need to keep to a specific meal distribution, you may need to limit snacking, you may need to spend time re-learning hunger signals, you may need to develop better environmental management about food, you may need to seek assistance with this.
But it is absolutely not true to claim that calorie counting is the only way and it's equally absurd to suggest that you must calorie count or you will fail.
You simply have not yet acquired the necessary habits you need to succeed.
You are correct. However, given that 90%+ of the people asking for advice have no clue about nutrition, a regulated, pretty fool proof system like calorie counting is going to be far more effective than educated guesswork, simply because most people do not as yet have the education.
We can worry about running when we've mastered walking.
Issue is, its not fool proof, at all. It's not about running after you master walking. Its about learning better habits.
Great. They can learn those while they lose weight by counting calories.
It isn't foolproof, but it's going to be far more effective than estimates when people simply don't know what a reasonable estimate is. Long term, reasoned estimates backed up by weekly weighing are probably a better idea for most people.
You can also learn while not counting calories.
No one is saying that calorie counting may not be a useful tool. The point is - everyone is not doomed to failure if they do not count calories, as seemed to be the implication earlier.
This...
"Long term, reasoned estimates backed up by weekly weighing are probably a better idea for most people."
is different than initially stated and I do not necessarily disagree with it. It also can be done without logging/tracking - but logging initially will give better estimates.0 -
I HATE HATE HATE being a slave to calorie counting...it somewhat makes me more food obsessed.
I can relate to this. When I started seriously counting calories I also started to develop an eating disorder. I'd practically count grains of rice. If I couldn't figure out the calories for a dish, I might choose to not eat at all.
It also took me a long time to recognize that this actually was an eating disorder. Eating disorder? I'm a 40 year old guy, isn't that something only cheerleaders get? Well, no.
I have seen some people on the thread say that you just need to embrace counting, that it's great because you are in control... Just do better. And while that might have worked for them, it isn't going to work that way for everyone. Telling me not to obsess about my calories is like telling an anorexic person to just enjoy a sandwich. It's not that easy.
So, I tried being just "mindful" and that was a disaster. I simply ate too much. The sad truth is, counting is really important. People like us need to figure out a way to do it without triggering unhealthy behaviors.
I have made a lot of progress. I have begun to recognize what activities bring out my worst tendencies, and I avoid them. I like to cook, but now I cook much simpler dishes that are easier to figure out calorie counts for.
I found it very stressful when I could not know EXACTLY what I was getting when I ate out. Is that 500 calories? 600? 800? What kind of oil did they use? You can never figure all that out. I have learned to settle for getting close enough. MFP has a huge database and if I guess that I had a cup of marinara and 4 oz of pasta and 1 tablespoon of olive oil when I am out at a restaurant, I'll put in whatever seems reasonable, that will have to do.
I also set my MFP weight loss goal as high as I can, 1.5 lbs/week. If my count is off a little, if I eat a little more than my target... or a little less... it's OK as long as I am still negative week over week. It's been working well so far, I am averaging just under 1.5 lbs/week for over 70 days, and not driving myself crazy in the process.
You'll figure out something that works for you. Good luck!0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »The number of people who make the assumption that calorie counting is the only method of regulating calorie intake is baffling to me.
Calorie counting is a great awareness tool that works really for some people. Most people should do it for at least the short term while they also build on better food habits.
If you do not like calorie counting you should strive to develop habits around food that allow you to not have to track calories. But this is not the same thing as "just eating mindfully".
You may need to learn better food selection habits. You may need to keep to a specific meal distribution, you may need to limit snacking, you may need to spend time re-learning hunger signals, you may need to develop better environmental management about food, you may need to seek assistance with this.
But it is absolutely not true to claim that calorie counting is the only way and it's equally absurd to suggest that you must calorie count or you will fail.
You simply have not yet acquired the necessary habits you need to succeed.
You are correct. However, given that 90%+ of the people asking for advice have no clue about nutrition, a regulated, pretty fool proof system like calorie counting is going to be far more effective than educated guesswork, simply because most people do not as yet have the education.
We can worry about running when we've mastered walking.
Issue is, its not fool proof, at all. It's not about running after you master walking. Its about learning better habits.
Great. They can learn those while they lose weight by counting calories.
It isn't foolproof, but it's going to be far more effective than estimates when people simply don't know what a reasonable estimate is. Long term, reasoned estimates backed up by weekly weighing are probably a better idea for most people.
You can also learn while not counting calories.
No one is saying that calorie counting may not be a useful tool. The point is - everyone is not doomed to failure if they do not count calories, as seemed to be the implication earlier.
This...
"Long term, reasoned estimates backed up by weekly weighing are probably a better idea for most people."
is different than initially stated and I do not necessarily disagree with it. It also can be done without logging/tracking - but logging initially will give better estimates.
Let me be clear: I think that the vast majority of novel visitors to this site, who are considering weight loss for the first time, or even after multiple attempts, who have little if any knowledge of nutrition, will absolutely and unconditionally fail if they don't count calories.
The reason is they are simply not yet equipped to understand what reasonable eating is. As such, following a competence model, where conscious competence means being constantly aware of exact intake by calorie counting, is going to increase their chances drastically. Once they get to unconscious competence, where they know what they're doing without having to think about it, the crutch that is calorie counting will not be needed. Some people may never reach this stage.
I still disagree.
You're claiming that the vast majority of people who have little nutritional knowledge has two choices:
1) Count Calories
or
2) Fail.
You're assuming that calorie counting is the only vehicle that could possibly allow someone to regulate their eating behaviors.
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I could simply site the low carb community as one example of people who have had some degree of success without counting calories.
Now obviously I take issue with some of the claims made by the low carb community but it's been an effective approach for people without counting anything.
Precision Nutrition has a non tracking model that I've used with clients as a general framekwork with success as well.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »The number of people who make the assumption that calorie counting is the only method of regulating calorie intake is baffling to me.
Calorie counting is a great awareness tool that works really for some people. Most people should do it for at least the short term while they also build on better food habits.
If you do not like calorie counting you should strive to develop habits around food that allow you to not have to track calories. But this is not the same thing as "just eating mindfully".
You may need to learn better food selection habits. You may need to keep to a specific meal distribution, you may need to limit snacking, you may need to spend time re-learning hunger signals, you may need to develop better environmental management about food, you may need to seek assistance with this.
But it is absolutely not true to claim that calorie counting is the only way and it's equally absurd to suggest that you must calorie count or you will fail.
You simply have not yet acquired the necessary habits you need to succeed.
You are correct. However, given that 90%+ of the people asking for advice have no clue about nutrition, a regulated, pretty fool proof system like calorie counting is going to be far more effective than educated guesswork, simply because most people do not as yet have the education.
We can worry about running when we've mastered walking.
Issue is, its not fool proof, at all. It's not about running after you master walking. Its about learning better habits.
Great. They can learn those while they lose weight by counting calories.
It isn't foolproof, but it's going to be far more effective than estimates when people simply don't know what a reasonable estimate is. Long term, reasoned estimates backed up by weekly weighing are probably a better idea for most people.
You can also learn while not counting calories.
No one is saying that calorie counting may not be a useful tool. The point is - everyone is not doomed to failure if they do not count calories, as seemed to be the implication earlier.
This...
"Long term, reasoned estimates backed up by weekly weighing are probably a better idea for most people."
is different than initially stated and I do not necessarily disagree with it. It also can be done without logging/tracking - but logging initially will give better estimates.
Let me be clear: I think that the vast majority of novel visitors to this site, who are considering weight loss for the first time, or even after multiple attempts, who have little if any knowledge of nutrition, will absolutely and unconditionally fail if they don't count calories.
The reason is they are simply not yet equipped to understand what reasonable eating is. As such, following a competence model, where conscious competence means being constantly aware of exact intake by calorie counting, is going to increase their chances drastically. Once they get to unconscious competence, where they know what they're doing without having to think about it, the crutch that is calorie counting will not be needed. Some people may never reach this stage.
You have gone from 'you WILL fail unless you log' to 'the vast majority of new dieters who have little nutritional knowledge will fail'. In any event, I am not sure how you can categorically state that these people fail unless they calorie count. You can improve your knowledge about nutrition and your behaviours without logging. In addition, it misses the important emotional/environmental factors that influence whether someone is successful or not.
At the end of the day, adherence will be the key to success. If logging helps adherence, without negative behavioural impact, then it is a great tool. A better tool is education and knowledge - which does not exclusively, or necessarily, come from logging.
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I'm glad I'm not alone. I have struggled for many years with the same dilemma regarding calorie counting and eating mindfully. I have finally found a balance. I am fully committed to calorie counting on MFP because IT WORKS. I have come to accept that MFP is like AA for me. I think I just need to be a lifer because of my emotional eating issues.
In my experience, mindful eating alone does not lead to weight loss. But calorie counting on MFP with a mindful approach makes calorie counting easier. And actually entering what I eat takes away the ability to eat mindlessly.
Here's an example. When I have an urge to eat a can of Pringles potato chips, it helps when I take a moment to log the Pringles ahead of time to see how many freaking calories it would be. Then I adjust to a reasonable amount (say six chips) AND THEN it helps to sit without distraction and eat my six chips mindfully.
And in the past five months, since tracking food on MFP, my urge to binge has gone down significantly.
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