Starvation mode. Myth or Fact?
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aziapatrick wrote: »I really appreciate all of the advice that has been given, I have lost 20 lbs since 1/5 so obviously I must be doing something right, even without owning a food scale. I completely agree that I haven't given myself enough time before getting concerned and will keep doing what I'm doing, minus a cheat meal (which isn't necessary for me) and review again in a month.
Have you lost 20 pounds in a month! Thats double the recommended loss for most people I don't think you should have any concerns? My advice would basically be your water weight is fluctuating because of the change in diet/activity which will even out in a couple of months, keep up the good work and remember it's a marathon not a sprint, slow and steady wins the race.
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aziapatrick wrote: »Pandapotato wrote: »Is your cheat meal a "go to TGI Fridays and get appetizers, dinner, and drinks?" because that could be A LOT of calories. 3500 cals = 1 lb.
It's a going to the mexican restaurant and eating chips and cheese and fried things, this last time it was also 2 drinks.
Looks like it's time to cut out the cheat meal.
Cutting out the cheat meal is a bad idea...breaks up the monotony and allows the body to recalibrate.
What do you do exercise-wise to break up the routine? Remember that the body recognizes muscle memory and the same workouts will not yield the same results if not changed occasionally.
Most important...be patient and give it time...weight loss is a slow and steady process. It can be frustrating when you don't see the scale move, but you have to figure out what works for you.
Best of luck!
I typically do the same exercises each day but on Saturdays I increase weight and time. For example I started out doing lat pulldowns at 70 lbs each week and now I'm up to 90.0 -
Also congrats on the 20lb loss!!! Feel free to add me if you want!! Good luck on your journey!0
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MomTo3Lovez wrote: »aziapatrick wrote: »It's a going to the mexican restaurant and eating chips and cheese and fried things, this last time it was also 2 drinks.
Looks like it's time to cut out the cheat meal.
Yea, Mexican is an easy 1.5-2k calories per meal.
That plus the sodium in it, you are probably retaining a ton of water from eating it once a week.
Either cut out the cheat meal or at least log it and see what it says and definitely get a food scale and weigh everything .
I only eat once every other week.0 -
An estimate (via health-calc -->http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced) of your actual daily calorie burn (333lb, 32 y/o, female, sleep 7hrs p/night and moderate exercise for 10min p/day + standing/walking for 1 hour total) is equal to a daily burn of 3,494 calories.
Therefore if you were actually eating 1,400 calories per day, in two weeks you should have lost 8.3lbs (with a daily deficit of 2,094 calories).
My advice would be similar to all above:
> First and foremost UP the calories you allow daily allowance. If I were you I would shoot for about 2-800 - 3,000 calories per day until you reach about 270lbs, then re-evaluate and cut another 200 - 300 calories daily until you reach 220lb and so on until you reach your goal, this way you should never really eat below 2,000 calories daily until you are less than 145lb (which may be lower than you would like to go anyway).
> Invest in a scale to weigh your food, this is a MUST as you are evidently eating ALOT more (about 2,000 calories per day more, in fact) than you think
> Record all your meals, including your cheat meals - unfortunately they have calories to
> Weight yourself ONCE a week, there is no need to weight daily - it is a waste of time and you body weight fluctuates on a daily basis
In regards to starvation mode, as an above poster said, it does happen in the severely malnourished. In regards to everyone else, probably not - it's calories in v. calories out.0 -
aziapatrick wrote: »Exercising: You could be right on that part. Prior to me starting this diet on 1/5 I literally did nothing. I was definitely heading in the "My 600 lb life" direction. I now work out 3 days a week and go up on weights and extend time on the elliptical each Saturday morning. I am now up to 16 minutes on the elliptical and 45 minutes weight training.
That's a really good start since you were completely sedentary to begin with. Just keep gradually adding more activity.
You seem very young to weigh as much as you do and to be struggling as much as you are even though you have improved your habits. This makes me wonder if you might have metabolic issues or other underlying health problems. Cheat meals are a controversial issue, and everybody will have a different opinion on how you should handle that. If I were you, I would try not to cheat and give the diet an honest shot for a couple of months. If you do this and STILL don't see any kind of loss, then you will know if you might need to seek out a medical opinion.
I took a peek at your tracker--I think that you are doing a pretty good job. Don't give up yet! Sometimes it takes a while to find the right mix of approaches.0 -
aziapatrick wrote: »That's not what is happening to you. You're weight stuck because you're body is retaining water and adjusting to your new exercise routine; or you aren't logging food accurately. If the exercise is a sudden increase and relatively intense for you, it's the first. If you aren't weighing food and just estimating/eyeballing, it's the second.
Exercising: You could be right on that part. Prior to me starting this diet on 1/5 I literally did nothing. I was definitely heading in the "My 600 lb life" direction. I now work out 3 days a week and go up on weights and extend time on the elliptical each Saturday morning. I am now up to 16 minutes on the elliptical and 45 minutes weight training.
Food: I don't weigh my food. I guess my thoughts on that were most of my meals already have the calories on them (Healthy Choice lunch, Naked Juice, Jimmy Dean Breakfast Sandwich, etc.) mainly the grilled chicken, broccoli, and hummus are eye balled. I suppose I assumed that since I was eating so far below my recommended that I gave myself room for a little error. I feel like there's no way I'm off by more than 200 calories.
labels on food are often wrong. which is why you should weigh food/juices,etc.you weigh liquids in measuring cups(also on the scale can help) and solids on the scale in grams. I have weighed my packaged foods and most of the time there is more than one serving and sometimes there is less which means the calories will be off. food packaging info is just estimated and I was shocked to see the difference once I started weighing it. which you can be off by more than 200 easily,not hard to do with food packaging info(been there done that). I would also up my exercise-weight train 2-3 days a week,do cardio 2-3 days a week and take one day off for rest(or you can get a walk in or something like that).just dont weight train or do cardio back to back alternate between the 2.
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SarahHowells1 wrote: »
> Invest in a scale to weigh your food, this is a MUST as you are evidently eating ALOT more (about 2,000 calories per day more, in fact) than you think
There is no way I'm having a 2000 calorie per day error.0 -
aziapatrick wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Because it's not working. Change the obvious first and worry about the detail later.
The obvious is her not even owning a food scale.
I'm sorry I haven't gotten one but there is NO WAY I'm having an error of more than 500 calories. If you want to attack me about a food scale then please go somewhere else.
without a food scale and weighing/logging/measuring everything then there is no way to know ..
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OP - I browsed the thread..here is your problem.
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Not logging cheat meal
not having a food scale
not weighing/logging/measuring everything.
^ do all this for about three weeks and see what happens.0 -
Not eating enough will cause your body to use up muscle mass for fuel first as it wants to hold onto fat. Losing muscle instead of fat is a cause of yo-yo dieting. The muscle burns more calories to maintain itself. So if you lose muscle, then what will add back later is more fat - and then your maintenance calorie count will be lower than before.
Yes- log it all.
yes - log the exercise.
Set a goal of more like a pound or two a week. MFP will set that calorie goal for you. Then manage the eating and exercise to that target.
You didn't get to the point of wanting to lose 125 pounds overnight and you won't lose it overnight either.
What you have to do is make long term life changes. Making too radical a change makes it less likely that you will be able to stick with it forever. I know. I've fought that fight for years and am finally making all those changes. I'm 80 pound in to losing 220. And it has been 13 months so far. I figure I have 18-24 months to go.0 -
Oops! I somehow missed that you had already lost 20 pounds in the month! That's great!
It really is important to get a scale. You can often find them for a dollar or two at Goodwill or similar stores.0 -
aziapatrick wrote: »I really appreciate all of the advice that has been given, I have lost 20 lbs since 1/5 so obviously I must be doing something right, even without owning a food scale. I completely agree that I haven't given myself enough time before getting concerned and will keep doing what I'm doing, minus a cheat meal (which isn't necessary for me) and review again in a month.
Hmm, I didn't see this. 20 lbs in 1 month is a lot! You are doing something right. A 2 week stall is common.0 -
I have heard from Doctors it does exist. Two weeks is not long enough to give up. You have to work towards your goal daily. Drink plenty of water and log everything even your cheat meal. You may be consuming more than you think in that once every two week cheat meal. Good Luck on your Journey.0
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herrspoons wrote: »I think you have a good plan. You should probably walk away from this topic now though.
Amen to that.0 -
aziapatrick wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Because it's not working. Change the obvious first and worry about the detail later.
The obvious is her not even owning a food scale.
I'm sorry I haven't gotten one but there is NO WAY I'm having an error of more than 500 calories. If you want to attack me about a food scale then please go somewhere else.
You could be out by more than you think.
I'm not saying a number but it's possible.aziapatrick wrote: »I really appreciate all of the advice that has been given, I have lost 20 lbs since 1/5 so obviously I must be doing something right, even without owning a food scale. I completely agree that I haven't given myself enough time before getting concerned and will keep doing what I'm doing, minus a cheat meal (which isn't necessary for me) and review again in a month.
So you went from the scale hardly moving at all to losing 20 lbs in a month? That's approx 5lbs/week. I'd be jumping for freakin joy if I could do that. I can go weeks without seeing a scale move and I exercise 5 - 6 days/week. I don't worry so much about the scale, more about my body comp and size of my clothing.
Further if you say you are doing something right then why would you even ask? Is it validation?0 -
acorsaut89 wrote: »aziapatrick wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Because it's not working. Change the obvious first and worry about the detail later.
The obvious is her not even owning a food scale.
I'm sorry I haven't gotten one but there is NO WAY I'm having an error of more than 500 calories. If you want to attack me about a food scale then please go somewhere else.
You could be out by more than you think.
I'm not saying a number but it's possible.aziapatrick wrote: »I really appreciate all of the advice that has been given, I have lost 20 lbs since 1/5 so obviously I must be doing something right, even without owning a food scale. I completely agree that I haven't given myself enough time before getting concerned and will keep doing what I'm doing, minus a cheat meal (which isn't necessary for me) and review again in a month.
So you went from the scale hardly moving at all to losing 20 lbs in a month? That's approx 5lbs/week. I'd be jumping for freakin joy if I could do that.
Further if you say you are doing something right then why would you even ask? Is it validation?
I originally lost 20 lbs in about 2.5 weeks. Then weight loss stalled. That's why I was asking the question about "starvation mode". When I mentioned the stall to my husband he told me I wasn't eating enough calories and my body was going into starvation mode. So I googled it and what I read was that it was a myth. So I thought I would bring the question about starvation mode here and see what everyone else thought. I'm not looking for "validation". I just had a 2 week stall and was concerned about "starvation mode", hence the title of the post.0 -
It's quite possible that you haven't given your body enough time after eating to tap into your fat stores. Think about it, even though you reduced your calorie intake you're still eating regularity. Your body needs to be trained to access your fat stores, which usually happens after 18 hours of fasting.
How late are you eating dinner usually? Ideally you should give yourself 12 hours between dinner and breakfast for a bunch of reasons, I won't list them but do feel free to google it [search "dinner breakfast 12 hours"]
If, and only if you think you'd be able to do it, I HIGHLY recommend IF (intermittent Fasting) Specifically Brad Pilon's 24 hour version from his book "Eat Stop Eat". He's got a degree in human biology and cites numerous studies throughout his book, and multiple articles reference his book when discussing IF. Basically, he's legit.
24 hour intermittent fasting is just what it sounds like, it's going a full 24 hours (I usually begin around 6 or 7 PM, that way each day I'm still kind of eating, just skipping dinner the first day and skipping breakfast and lunch the second) without eating. You can (and NEED TO) drink plenty of water, as well as coffee and tea (I cheat and add as much as 35 calories of 2% milk and a little bit of sugar to 1 cup coffee) People typically fast 1-2 times per week. There is NO set schedule, do it whenever you like. It's important though, to NOT gorge yourself after your fast is over (you will be tempted to, I promise haha) simply go back to normal eating, of course I recommend eating good healthy whole foods and not Immediately devouring a pizza. I usually have a 500-600 cal meal (my daily is ~2200) with a good balance of macros (think 3 eggs, sauteed spinach and a little mayo on whole wheat toast, followed by a banana) then give myself about 1 hour to take it all in. If I still feel hungry I go for more.
While not fasting you simply eat normally, you CAN go out to eat. You don't even HAVE to count calories (I still do usually though). Because think about it, if you're fasting 2 days a week. You're tapping into your fat stores (like I said, it starts at the 18 hour mark so you're running on your body's stored fat for SIX HOURS each time you fast). In addition, you aren't eating for 2 days out of a week. That's a caloric deficit of whatever your daily "maintenance" calories are (for me: 4,400). Therefore it doesn't really matter how much you're eating when you aren't fasting. Oh one more thing, your appetite will go WAY down!
Caloric restriction is simply the only way to lose weight, we can all agree on that, you will feel hungry especially during your normal meal times, and especially when fasting for the 1st few times, but the hunger WILL pass and about mid afternoon I actually tend to get a kick of energy.
24 Hour IF is NOT by any means for everyone. It works best with men, but there are plenty of women who have done IF successfully. If you are successful though, and can do a couple fasts a week (once the weight is off, and it WILL go I promise, you can drop to 1 fast every other week or something like that, as there are a whole lot of benefits from IF besides just losing weight)
If you think you could do it, as you can tell, I highly recommend it. I can't cover all the benefits of IF in a post though, so here are a couple more good reads including the book which I highly reccomend if this seems like something you'd be interested in. It's really a no brainer, you won't have a problem losing weight if you can stick to it. Best of luck! - David
P.S. I'm guessing there will be a lot of skeptics\critics out there as even my girlfriend is one of them haha, when I told her after the fact that I had just gone 24 hours without eating she was almost furious. I later talked to her about how it's not as bad as it sounds (most people hear "I just starved for a day" when you mention it haha) She eventually tried it, and we came to the conclusion that it is NOT for her.
If you have any questions, ask away, I'll do my best to answer everything.
Huffington Post: Intermittent Fasting: Who's It For? (And, if It's Not for You, What to Do Instead)
Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon
EDIT: I just saw that you lost 20 pounds as well. Good job! But this still counts. For you as well as anyone else looking to lose weight or simply maintaining good health\weight.
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aziapatrick wrote: »acorsaut89 wrote: »aziapatrick wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Because it's not working. Change the obvious first and worry about the detail later.
The obvious is her not even owning a food scale.
I'm sorry I haven't gotten one but there is NO WAY I'm having an error of more than 500 calories. If you want to attack me about a food scale then please go somewhere else.
You could be out by more than you think.
I'm not saying a number but it's possible.aziapatrick wrote: »I really appreciate all of the advice that has been given, I have lost 20 lbs since 1/5 so obviously I must be doing something right, even without owning a food scale. I completely agree that I haven't given myself enough time before getting concerned and will keep doing what I'm doing, minus a cheat meal (which isn't necessary for me) and review again in a month.
So you went from the scale hardly moving at all to losing 20 lbs in a month? That's approx 5lbs/week. I'd be jumping for freakin joy if I could do that.
Further if you say you are doing something right then why would you even ask? Is it validation?
I originally lost 20 lbs in about 2.5 weeks. Then weight loss stalled. That's why I was asking the question about "starvation mode". When I mentioned the stall to my husband he told me I wasn't eating enough calories and my body was going into starvation mode. So I googled it and what I read was that it was a myth. So I thought I would bring the question about starvation mode here and see what everyone else thought. I'm not looking for "validation". I just had a 2 week stall and was concerned about "starvation mode", hence the title of the post.
So where did you read it was a myth? Did you look at more than one source - did you validate any of the information against sources that say the opposite?
This site - as much as it's helpful - is also full of regular people who are not doctors. Some people have done a lot of research and spent so much time figuring out how the human body works. Some people are in the fitness or health fields, but most are not. I am the first to admit I know what works for my body, I have no idea what works for yours which is why I won't pretend to say here's what you should do, I can only give examples of what I do and what I've learned. And if it happens to work for you then that's awesome - if not, onwards and upwards. It's a lot of trial and error.
Bottom line: this site can give completely inaccurate information - sometimes. Some people believe in starvation mode and some don't. Some people only eat Keto and others are Paleo and both will swear up and down theirs is the only way to eat. From what I've seen, it's best to do research that affects your health - or ask questions which you will put into practice for yourself - outside of here too as there's a lot of misinformation. Some good, some honest, some just based on the preferences of individuals.
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I would look again at what you consume in drinks- for example, the Naked Pomegranate Acai Naked 15.2oz contains 62g sugar (AKA 5 tablespoons of sugar). The high sugar amount is insane. I would be very careful with any juice - no added sugar doesn't mean no sugar. 0
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I have the Berry Veggie juice but I only drink half of one with my lunch every day. When you half it, it is only 17 grams of sugar.0
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OP - I browsed the thread..here is your problem.
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Not logging cheat meal
not having a food scale
not weighing/logging/measuring everything.
^ do all this for about three weeks and see what happens.
Truth when people make calories counting thread without actually counting calories. Food scale should be the number one comment to put since you have no idea about eyeballing. Yes you can lose weight without counting but that is more of a guessing game then trying to do Where's Waldo.
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OP - I browsed the thread..here is your problem.
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Not logging cheat meal
not having a food scale
not weighing/logging/measuring everything.
^ do all this for about three weeks and see what happens.
Perfect summary. Also keep in mind, that long term results are never quick. It will take quite a bit of time to get the body you want if you want to do it in a healthy way!
Best of luck!0 -
Oh, it's real, you just haven't been to the right Continent to see how it works.0
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First, my heartfelt congratulations to you for starting this process, and for being determined to carry your plan to your target weight. You can do this, just be patient while you figure it all out. Take all comments as good advice intended firmly but kindly, then apply the obvious corrections without feeling forced. It's a process, not an event, believe me.
A few comments:
I think you do need more calories, and I know that that concerns you, but once you build more precise info on the food and exercise entries, you can make the needed adjustments. What does MFP say you should be taking in every day?
On exercise calories, just use the general guidance in the MFP tools, and maybe adjust down a bit to be sure you’re not “buying” calories on credit!
Eat the calories you earn through exercise, if you want, because you’re still moving forward at the losing pace set up to begin with. You aren’t dieting, and you aren’t required to suffer. You’re transitioning to a normal relationship with food. You need those calories to replace what you burned.
Also: Does it seem that a 128 to 188 ounce daily water intake is high? I'm just asking. Do others have any input?
And, YES! Define and LOG EVERYTHING like a darn scientist. Otherwise the MFP tracking isn't serving you long-term, even if you lose weight. I see the tracking as a way to really nail what works for MY metabolism and body, including how that changes as things progress. So, yes, I’m going a bit nuts researching and building the precise details of my recipes, snacks, sandwiches and exercise activities, but once that’s all in there, I know that it’ll be easy, but especially ACCURATE, going forward. That’s already helped me to look at lower sodium content, because some meals contain half of my allowed amount and I run over nearly every day. For an overweight guy who’s already had a few BP-related issues, that’s good to know! As other have said, take the time to log and track, and don’t accept generics and such- go back and verify EVERY specification yourself. I can’t have certain lunches if I know that I’m gonna have particular dinners, or I’ll blow the day. I know that because I have precise info in my MFP database of meals, recipes, exercises, etc.
I think most who are transitioning to more realistic eating habits have that first week or two where they lose over 1-2 pounds per week. But, you’ll note that MFP has NO selection for target weight loss in excess of two pounds per week. You need time to take the weight off in a healthy way, at a healthy rate, because your body will naturally adjust how it metabolizes your food as it becomes smaller. Plateaus are common after the first few weeks, and I know that’s hard to handle when you want to lose many pounds.
I need to lose 35 pounds, for example, and lost 6 the first week. But that’s not really the best part of that first week. I also did this the first week:
o I used MFP to track what I WAS eating daily, and using the calculator from the site I learned that I was woofing down 1100-1500 calories, MINIMUM, over what was healthy for me as I try to lose. I now eat what the system says, period. That’s amazing, to me.
o I began exercising every day, even a 5-minute walk counts. And I logged it. I feel as though need my mind, habit patterns and metabolism to get “fed” food and exercise as consistently as possible.
o I went to the site and used the system to build and track my personal meals and workouts every day, again focusing on the consistency.
o And, yeah, I lost 6 pounds. Give me a few weeks, and I’ll level off, and I’ll average those pounds into my first month, quarter and year of the transition. It took me years to gradually “get used” to an extra few pounds at a time, and here I am today. If I can average just a pound a week, even three pounds a month – whatever - , I’m good. So long as I am adapting my expectations, emotions and consistent approach every day, week and, month, then I won’t just be thinner, but I’ll be better than ever, from the inside out.
Can you exercise just 20-30 minutes daily? I know that I’m applying my logic to your effort, but I’ve heard that that a good way to “retrain” your metabolism is to “feed” it consistently, both food and activity.
I'd ditch the cheat meal for these reasons:
1. You're probably consuming a day's calories in one sitting. I think consistency of calorie consumption is important, and that your metabolism tends to overreact to extremes. I'm no doc, just thinking here.
2. I think we need to retrain our expectations and emotional connections regarding food, and "cheating" seems like you're assuming that that's still the one enjoyable "like the good old days" meal of the week, like the prior eating patterns still have their psychological grip, you know? Don't fret that you're never gonna have another chance to order a basket of chips again, because once you assert your acceptance that the "good old days" are just starting, then you will be eating a lighter breakfast and lunch, then enjoying a more moderate Mexican meal that's not "snuck" into your plans.
Sorry to ramble on.0 -
Does not log cheat meal, does not weigh food
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aziapatrick wrote: »Pandapotato wrote: »Is your cheat meal a "go to TGI Fridays and get appetizers, dinner, and drinks?" because that could be A LOT of calories. 3500 cals = 1 lb.
It's a going to the mexican restaurant and eating chips and cheese and fried things, this last time it was also 2 drinks.
Looks like it's time to cut out the cheat meal.
You don't cut it out. You just make sure it fits in your calorie quota and you log it.
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WholeFoodHealthy wrote: »Your body needs to be trained to access your fat store...
No, it doesn't.
If you're in a deficit, and have fat stores, your body uses them.
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Here is the difference in measuring your food with cups and weighing your food.
Do this every day with all your foods, measuring and spoon sizes and that for a whole week and you will be shocked how much calories are not logged. Plus your cheat meal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjWPclrWVY 0
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