Lent
Replies
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cheshirecatastrophe wrote: »I try to follow the traditional orthodox rules of fasting during lent. No animal products, no meat, no oils etc and there are a few days in there that are complete fasts. To us, the point of lent is a fast so you can concentrate on spiritual matters, not simply giving up one item that we enjoy. Since it is a religious fast, I follow the guidelines (as best I can) that are given by my religion
Nonsense. Lent is 40 days of dieting to make up for drinking your bodyweight on Mardi Gras. I'm pretty sure that's in the Bible.
(The U.S. Catholic version of the traditional Lenten fast is for parishes to throw a Friday "Fish Fry" with fried fish, fried tater tots, potato salad, and brownies. Asceticism...ur doin it wrong.)
I'm not catholic, I'm orthodox. There is a difference between the two. I don't follow a Roman Catholic fast, I follow an orthodox one....
Yes, so I was explaining the Catholic version. Was that not clear? 0 -
I thought it was. ;-)0
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I went kosher one year. It was a great experience. I stuck to it for a year, then we moved to a place that's only read about kosher law. No such market in southern Oklahoma.
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I do it every year. I haven given up coffee most years.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Maybe try something completely non food related to keep in the spirit of the fast. I think setting the time aside every day to pray the rosary (or just to pray) would still be in the spirit of lent, and help you focus on the point of it instead of it being a food based thing, which might kind of be whats bothering me about this whole discussion. Lent is a deeply religious thing for a lot of people, its kind of weird to see it used as just an opportunity to give something random up.
Okay, I am going to be too long-winded like always, but I don't think you should assume that people are giving something random up or that it's not religious. That seems really presumptuous. I help with our RCIA program (conversion program for adults) and was just participating in a panel about it on Monday, so have been thinking about it, so here's a summary of my thoughts (from a Catholic perspective).
The requirement is fasting, alms giving, and prayer. You should do all three (I always add some kind of prayer routine, although often the intend is to try and work it in more permanently, and this is separate from the fast or "giving something up"), but often they can fit together. The classic example is give up meat and contribute the savings to charity (when I gave up buying books and music that was part of it). Last year I couldn't do a food-related one (too tied up in dieting) so I did daily mass, which is prayer but also a kind of fast in that I used time I otherwise would have had for other things.
For food-related fasts, I think it's easy in the US to think of fasting as not having a spiritual element and as a result it tends to be a little countercultural and I like it for that reason, but you have to kind of focus to find it. For me that's about remembering why you are doing it.
(snip)
Thanks to both @lemurcat12 and @lesteidel for your thoughts. Last year I did give up social media, except for religious Twitter accounts. I'm considering something like that again as well as I do find myself getting tied in knots about politics and current events. "There is need of only one thing" and all that.
I personally feel drawn to fasting in the traditional sense both because it is personally hard for me -- food is almost like a small g "god" sometimes -- and because it is part of the traditional discipline of lent.0 -
See, fasting is. . .meh. I find it easier to fast than to calorie restrict. (That's probably why I do 5:2!) I don't think much about anything when I'm fasting. Fasting is just. . .not eating. So I'm hungry. It's just not a deal for me until I feel unwell. Maybe I'm wired weird. But if I have just one bite, I need more bites!
To me, a Lenten restriction should be something that you will feel as a sacrifice and that will draw you into thinking about sacrifices made by others, most specifically the sacrifice made on Good Friday, but other sacrifices as well, personal, historical and Biblical.
Sooo. . .I'm thinking Amazon. I'll feel it for sure when I have to go out of my way to the only store in town that sells liquid Splenda instead of buying it on Amazon, or the first time I randomly decide to buy iron on reflective tape to put on my running headlamp and have to go to Jo-Anns for it.
I'm Methodist BTW.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Maybe try something completely non food related to keep in the spirit of the fast. I think setting the time aside every day to pray the rosary (or just to pray) would still be in the spirit of lent, and help you focus on the point of it instead of it being a food based thing, which might kind of be whats bothering me about this whole discussion. Lent is a deeply religious thing for a lot of people, its kind of weird to see it used as just an opportunity to give something random up.
Okay, I am going to be too long-winded like always, but I don't think you should assume that people are giving something random up or that it's not religious. That seems really presumptuous. I help with our RCIA program (conversion program for adults) and was just participating in a panel about it on Monday, so have been thinking about it, so here's a summary of my thoughts (from a Catholic perspective).
The requirement is fasting, alms giving, and prayer. You should do all three (I always add some kind of prayer routine, although often the intend is to try and work it in more permanently, and this is separate from the fast or "giving something up"), but often they can fit together. The classic example is give up meat and contribute the savings to charity (when I gave up buying books and music that was part of it). Last year I couldn't do a food-related one (too tied up in dieting) so I did daily mass, which is prayer but also a kind of fast in that I used time I otherwise would have had for other things.
For food-related fasts, I think it's easy in the US to think of fasting as not having a spiritual element and as a result it tends to be a little countercultural and I like it for that reason, but you have to kind of focus to find it. For me that's about remembering why you are doing it.
The modern tendency is "oh, giving something up is silly, I gave up giving things up, ha, ha" or "why not add something instead," but I think there's something to be said for giving things up. When I pick something otherwise good like coffee to give up (obviously we have a Friday requirement in addition to that and a couple of fast days), the idea isn't that it's something random. It's something that will be challenging and, more to the point, something I'm going to miss regularly. When I miss it I have to think about why I am doing it and if it's something of a crutch I have to fill the need with something else (ideally prayer).
Giving up meat has less of that kind of effect for me (I can go without meat pretty easily, apart from protein goals), but I still like doing it because it's traditional, because I can combine it eating more sparsely, it being a simpler time of year, not celebratory, and because anything that you have to think about every time you eat is significant and can easily make your day more spiritual, even if it's not particularly challenging to actually carry out (its more of a discipline than a sacrifice, like the Fridays requirement are as currently carried out).
In theory, I think someone could say that an association with dieting can work because treating your body more like a gift from God and living in a way more consistent with that, prioritizing health, etc., can be, but like I said before that doesn't really work for me, so I can't have a "fast" that is primarily intended to serve a weight loss goal. It's why I'm not giving up sweets even though I've done that in the past when not trying to lose weight (and I generally think traditionally speaking it's best not to think of Lent as a time for sweets anyway, and certainly avoid them during Holy Week).
My suggestion was specifically because that person had stated they had had issues in the past with using lent for nutritional goals, and you kind of made my point about lent by it being a highly spiritual thing for you. It was a suggestion that is in line with catholic teaching as catholic teaching isn't as strict about rules for fasting as ours are. I was trying to help.
I'm sorry that taking the phrase "I'm not particularly religious but I'm giving up... For lent" That was the original ops words at face value meant that I was assuming about their reason. I simply went on what was said. I don't see why someone WOULD do a Lenten fast of any sort if it weren't for the reasons we do it. Why not just do a regular giving something up? How is it a Lenten fast if the person isn't religious? It isn't. I'm sorry that it seems random to me, but it does. I just don't understand the point of non religious people participating in lent. I'm not saying it isn't a good thing, I just truly don't understand it.
I am truly sorry I upset you though.
The two thoughts were not directed at the same thing. Next time I will try to be more clear.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I try to follow the traditional orthodox rules of fasting during lent. No animal products, no meat, no oils etc and there are a few days in there that are complete fasts. To us, the point of lent is a fast so you can concentrate on spiritual matters, not simply giving up one item that we enjoy. Since it is a religious fast, I follow the guidelines (as best I can) that are given by my religion
My best friend grew up Greek Orthodox, but doesn't follow it entirely now (only during Holy Week, she does a modified version before). She doesn't understand why I kind of envy how they go all out, which is more similar to what used to be done in the West in the past too. (But on the other hand she mocks our current version of a fast, as do I sometimes, and it is encouraged to do more than is required on actual fast days.)
I went vegan one year to kind of get in the spirit, but haven't tried doing that plus no oil. (Although I'm pretty sure there's a weird loophole for shrimp.)
Anyway, good for you!
Oh I wouldn't envy if I were you. I always lose way more than I want to during lent (which is 48 days for us, not 40). Try going raw vegan - yes that's right, about half the days you can't cook, no oil and no access to the convenient vegan stuff because veganism is not common where you live... ah well. And I'm not even religious, but the whole family does it and I do it for support.
But I can understand where you are coming from. The 36 hour water fast days are easier for me that the days when I can eat because I don't have to think about food.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Maybe try something completely non food related to keep in the spirit of the fast. I think setting the time aside every day to pray the rosary (or just to pray) would still be in the spirit of lent, and help you focus on the point of it instead of it being a food based thing, which might kind of be whats bothering me about this whole discussion. Lent is a deeply religious thing for a lot of people, its kind of weird to see it used as just an opportunity to give something random up.
Okay, I am going to be too long-winded like always, but I don't think you should assume that people are giving something random up or that it's not religious. That seems really presumptuous. I help with our RCIA program (conversion program for adults) and was just participating in a panel about it on Monday, so have been thinking about it, so here's a summary of my thoughts (from a Catholic perspective).
The requirement is fasting, alms giving, and prayer. You should do all three (I always add some kind of prayer routine, although often the intend is to try and work it in more permanently, and this is separate from the fast or "giving something up"), but often they can fit together. The classic example is give up meat and contribute the savings to charity (when I gave up buying books and music that was part of it). Last year I couldn't do a food-related one (too tied up in dieting) so I did daily mass, which is prayer but also a kind of fast in that I used time I otherwise would have had for other things.
For food-related fasts, I think it's easy in the US to think of fasting as not having a spiritual element and as a result it tends to be a little countercultural and I like it for that reason, but you have to kind of focus to find it. For me that's about remembering why you are doing it.
The modern tendency is "oh, giving something up is silly, I gave up giving things up, ha, ha" or "why not add something instead," but I think there's something to be said for giving things up. When I pick something otherwise good like coffee to give up (obviously we have a Friday requirement in addition to that and a couple of fast days), the idea isn't that it's something random. It's something that will be challenging and, more to the point, something I'm going to miss regularly. When I miss it I have to think about why I am doing it and if it's something of a crutch I have to fill the need with something else (ideally prayer).
Giving up meat has less of that kind of effect for me (I can go without meat pretty easily, apart from protein goals), but I still like doing it because it's traditional, because I can combine it eating more sparsely, it being a simpler time of year, not celebratory, and because anything that you have to think about every time you eat is significant and can easily make your day more spiritual, even if it's not particularly challenging to actually carry out (its more of a discipline than a sacrifice, like the Fridays requirement are as currently carried out).
In theory, I think someone could say that an association with dieting can work because treating your body more like a gift from God and living in a way more consistent with that, prioritizing health, etc., can be, but like I said before that doesn't really work for me, so I can't have a "fast" that is primarily intended to serve a weight loss goal. It's why I'm not giving up sweets even though I've done that in the past when not trying to lose weight (and I generally think traditionally speaking it's best not to think of Lent as a time for sweets anyway, and certainly avoid them during Holy Week).
My suggestion was specifically because that person had stated they had had issues in the past with using lent for nutritional goals, and you kind of made my point about lent by it being a highly spiritual thing for you. It was a suggestion that is in line with catholic teaching as catholic teaching isn't as strict about rules for fasting as ours are. I was trying to help.
I'm sorry that taking the phrase "I'm not particularly religious but I'm giving up... For lent" That was the original ops words at face value meant that I was assuming about their reason. I simply went on what was said. I don't see why someone WOULD do a Lenten fast of any sort if it weren't for the reasons we do it. Why not just do a regular giving something up? How is it a Lenten fast if the person isn't religious? It isn't. I'm sorry that it seems random to me, but it does. I just don't understand the point of non religious people participating in lent. I'm not saying it isn't a good thing, I just truly don't understand it.
I am truly sorry I upset you though.
The two thoughts were not directed at the same thing. Next time I will try to be more clear.
I will try to explain my side of this. Bear in mind these are my personal reasons and other people will have other reasons.
I'm not religious at all, but I participate in lent every year and fast twice a year (before christmas and before easter). I even attend masses with my family on certain days. It would be disrespectful of me to sit there and munch on a pizza while the rest of the household is eating nothing but salads without dressings. Yes I don't have to fast, but not doing it makes me feel worse.
In addition to that, fasting has a certain atmosphere I enjoy. It gives me a sense of belonging. I live in a place where we're a tight knit minority and religion is a part of our identity and the source of quite a few of our traditions. Yes, I no longer believe, but that does not mean I want to give up years of happy tradition. I want to experience that atmosphere, I want that eager anticipation for easter eve where food feels so special after a long period of deprivation, I want to share a bar of chocolate with my mother like we do every year, I want to go with my sister to orphanage and watch how people's faces light up when we come bearing gifts, I want a lot of things that are purely human, regardless if they're rooted in religion or not.0 -
I am truly sorry I upset you though.
Oh, don't worry about it. You didn't. I'm just too long-winded so the tone probably came across wrong.
I did misunderstand you and thought you were referring more generally to the Catholic (and some Protestant, I guess) practice of giving things up as a kind of fast and that's just why I wanted to explain it can (should, IMO) have a spiritual side.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »And I'm not even religious, but the whole family does it and I do it for support.
I get that. It's related to why my friend still does goes all out for Holy Week and does a kind of modified version (really basically like the Catholic version) the rest of Lent. It's her compromise between her own impulses and family and tradition.0 -
I try to follow the traditional orthodox rules of fasting during lent. No animal products, no meat, no oils etc and there are a few days in there that are complete fasts. To us, the point of lent is a fast so you can concentrate on spiritual matters, not simply giving up one item that we enjoy. Since it is a religious fast, I follow the guidelines (as best I can) that are given by my religion
I'm Orthodox as well, but in my family we do both the regular fasting rules as well as giving up something. Although it's less a matter of "giving up one item that we enjoy" than giving up the things that most tend to distract from spiritual focus - namely, most computer games and fiction books.0 -
I am caveating this to say that this is my belief. I am sharing it. I am not attempting to preach, persuade or otherwise judge those who don't share this belief.
Lent has been completely bastardized; as is the idea of fasting. I don't have a problem with folks who give up meat on Fridays or give up sweets for 40 days or whatever. It's just not the point of lent.
Someone said that fasting, alms giving and prayer are the three requirements during this time and that you should do all three. The mistake is to think that those are three separate things. They're not. You fast and use those resources you would have otherwise used on your food to provide alms. The fasted state provides an avenue for you to be closer to God and presumably, an environment more conducive to prayer.
Make no mistake, hunger is an extremely important part of Lent. It is the physical manifestation of your sacrifice. Hunger makes you think of those less fortunate than you that live with that hunger every day. It makes you appreciate the bounty of God. It makes you realize that our day-to-day focus on food and other worldly things are minor details in the grand scheme of things.0 -
I don't go all out doing big things for Lent but I have given up chocolate for lent for several years now.
It doesn't really help my calorie goal directly as I just eat other calories - but it does give me an experience of resisting temptation and developing self discipline especially in the lead up to Easter, when chocolates are constantly everywhere. ( and I LOVE chocolate
- I think doing this helps me to realise how surrounded by food we are in the first world and how much I take that for granted.
- Obviously it is a first world issue to be able to do this and to see it as even a small sacrifice - someone in a famine in a third world country would not have to resist the temptation of constantly available treat food like I do.
Most years I also do a Lenten study - which isn't really giving anything up ( spare time, perhaps) but of course is part of the spiritual focus.0
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