Advanced Calorie Calculations - check my math

autumnblade75

4 oz of dried oatmeal measured in a measuring cup may well be 6 actual oz. of dried oatmeal. Weigh all the foods that aren't liquid, including your protein powder for your shakes. I think your problem is with the food logging, rather than the TDEE estimation. After that, weight loss isn't linear, you might just need to add a little more patience.

erickirb

RNGRZulu wrote: »

You are right...but that estimate of my BRM is the fixed variable (depends on which model I use). I'm trying to get my total by adding my calories burned from recoding my heart rate....but, calories burned based on heart rate would also be an estimate.

From all I read, going under 1500 Cals is unhealthy. I'm only 173 over that. Is everyone suggesting that I need to eat less and workout more than the 75-90 minutes 5x per week (heavy weight training, HIIT, sprints, spin class)?

below TDEE -25% is unhealthy, if your TDEE was 1800, 1500 cals would be fine.

I will go with a couple things device thinks your BMR is higher than it is and you are eating more than you think you are.

erickirb

RNGRZulu wrote: »

UPDATED Info...

No weight loss this week. In fact, I gained 1.2 lbs. (230 lbs, 6 ft)

Lifting moderately heavy. Good sessions. Had two solid meals per day most days. The other 4 meals were shakes. Most of the cardio was sprint intervals on the TM, Arc, or Elliptical. Spin classes cancelled this week except for today (we just did it ourselves when the leader was delayed).

My average calories eaten per day has been 1757 over the past 7 days.
My average workout has been 461 calories per day.

That's a net intake of 1296 calories.
BMR 2105 (Scooby).

Deficit comes out to avg 809 calories per day.

BMR Workout Eaten Daily Def.
Fri 2105 311 1616 800
Sat 2105 0 1860 245
Sun 2105 804 1697 1212
Mon 2105 639 1889 855
Tue 2105 517 1689 933
Wed 2105 500 2095 510
Thu 2105 459 1458 1106

Weekly Def 5661
Exp. Wt Loss 1.62

I should have lost 1.6 lbs, I gained 1.2 = gross of 2.8 lbs in the wrong direction.

Going to monitor my H2O intake and keep a clean weekend. See where I am Monday morning. Might be retention. Going to take the weight down a bit, add more reps and get more supersets/circuit-style training.

again if Scooby has your BMR at 2105 your deficit is more than 809 as you don't calcualte your deficit from BMR!!! ignore BMR for anything other than an input that is used to estimate TDEE. You shoudl look at your intake of 1757 vs. your TDEE of X the deficit would be X-1757, this issue it you may have ate more than the 1757 you think you did and your TDEE may be lower than X, due to an over estimation of BMR and or activity level.

StaciMarie1974

Bottom Line (according to me, take it for what its worth) if your Polar Loop shows you burning 3200 per day you can ignore all the other computer generated #s. Even if its 'off' (even the best trackers can't claim 100% accuracy) then you should still be losing at 1600-1800 calories.

Are you using a food scale for everything solid? Such as the shake/powders? If not, how calorie dense are they? Though in reality even if your calorie intake was underestimated and calorie burn was overestimated, you'd need to be way off to explain no weight loss.

Have you had thyroid, etc. checked to rule out medical issues? Do you think you have a very low level of muscle/lean body mass? If so that could make your actual BMR lower than the mathematical models assume. Last though, though I don't have personal experience, some report better results by changing up their macros or what they eat. Maybe avoid the shakes for a while, go with real food (weighed on a scale). Can't hurt to try at this point perhaps?

RNGRZulu

Thanks...

I don't think I have relatively low lean body mass. I'm a bigger guy and I lift 5 days a week. I don't want to be a big guy though. I only lift now to maintain lean body mass while my body is (theoretically) losing overall mass.

I weigh all of my solid protein on a kitchen scale ... Except hb egg whites and yogurt. I will have to get another scale for work to measure the vegetables I have for lunch and the oatmeal that I sometimes have for breakfast. I suppose I should weigh the banana I eat rather than measure them. Powder I measure out per the nutritionals on the back label (use the barcode scan).

If I'm under-estimating, I'd have to be waaaaaay off though.

QuilterInVA

You probably are off enough to keep you from losing. If it isn't liquid it should be weighed.

ahoy_m8

Agree with everyone commenting that there seems to be a BMR vs. NEAT misunderstanding and you really don't know your energy intake unless you weigh everything. Especially cereal and powders.

I'll add another observation, because I do get the whole spreadsheet tracking thing. Any energy calculation is highly, highly variable with weight change, and weight fluctuation <> fat change. (Most of us are using a ratio of 3500kcal:1lb, high dependency there. And potential to be highly wrong without visibility into water change vs fat change.) After only 11 days, I would expect wildly ranging results (meaning standard deviations approaching value of variables). One way to moderate the deviation is to use 7-day running average weight. I use a 28-day average to account for menstrual fluctuation. Longer average periods reduce the water weight "noise" but require patience and the long view. It's still a fragile equation, highly dependent on minute weight variation.

You can, however, assess your TDEE pretty accurately if (1) your exercise is consistent week-to week, (2) you are patient, and (3) you weigh everything that crosses you lips. Except water. Best of luck!

RNGRZulu

erickirb wrote: »

I think you do not understand what BMR means. Are you saying BMR is maintenance - exercise? If so that is not the case. Not sure what you think the BMR of 2845 means or how you calculated it.

Def not adding LBM in a deficit that large 1613 cal deficit (3298-1685) I am guessing water retention due to water intake and change in exercise. You should def not be eating less than TDEE -25% and you are doing TDEE-50%, keep this up and when you do lose a large % will be from lean muscle, not the fat you want to lose.

You said you weigh/measure food? Are you weight all solids and measuring liquids, or do you measure some solids? measuring solids could put you off 10-35%.

Ok, I'm trying. From what I understood, TDEE is total daily energy expenditure, calculated based on BMR + calories burned though other activities. Sometimes I see it as BMR x 1.55 or some other "factor". I've been using my activity monitor, subtracting my BMR then taking my workout calories out of the equation. Since that goes up and down depending on the day, I should get an average NEAT (non exercise activity thermogenesis).

My average BMR (Harris Benedict, Mifflin St Jeor, Katch McArdle) is 2054.

So if I am creating a deficit through workout and intake that is at least 500 Cals per day...I should lose 1lb per week.

That's the issue...do I need a deficit against BMR or against some other number? Average "maintenance calories" from those models is 3184. Average "Calories to lose weight" (20% deficit) from those models is 2547.

That would create a 4476/week caloric deficit...getting me 1.3 lbs of weight loss per week.

I'm creating a 8000 calorie per week deficit and I gained weight. Even if I were off by 50% on my measurements (output and intake) resulting in 4000 calorie deficit...I should still be losing over a pound per week.

ahoy_m8

Google "Lyle McDonald squishy fat and whooshes" and give it 3-4 weeks before drawing conclusions.

erickirb

RNGRZulu wrote: »

erickirb wrote: »

I think you do not understand what BMR means. Are you saying BMR is maintenance - exercise? If so that is not the case. Not sure what you think the BMR of 2845 means or how you calculated it.

Def not adding LBM in a deficit that large 1613 cal deficit (3298-1685) I am guessing water retention due to water intake and change in exercise. You should def not be eating less than TDEE -25% and you are doing TDEE-50%, keep this up and when you do lose a large % will be from lean muscle, not the fat you want to lose.

You said you weigh/measure food? Are you weight all solids and measuring liquids, or do you measure some solids? measuring solids could put you off 10-35%.

Ok, I'm trying. From what I understood, TDEE is total daily energy expenditure, calculated based on BMR + calories burned though other activities. Sometimes I see it as BMR x 1.55 or some other "factor". I've been using my activity monitor, subtracting my BMR then taking my workout calories out of the equation. Since that goes up and down depending on the day, I should get an average NEAT (non exercise activity thermogenesis).

My average BMR (Harris Benedict, Mifflin St Jeor, Katch McArdle) is 2054.

So if I am creating a deficit through workout and intake that is at least 500 Cals per day...I should lose 1lb per week.

That's the issue...do I need a deficit against BMR or against some other number? Average "maintenance calories" from those models is 3184. Average "Calories to lose weight" (20% deficit) from those models is 2547.

That would create a 4476/week caloric deficit...getting me 1.3 lbs of weight loss per week.

I'm creating a 8000 calorie per week deficit and I gained weight. Even if I were off by 50% on my measurements (output and intake) resulting in 4000 calorie deficit...I should still be losing over a pound per week.

Deficit should be NEAT + Exercise - calories consumed, of put another way TDEE - calories consumed.

In other words, total calories burned - total calories consumed.

If you think you have a deficit of 8000 but on average over 6-8 weeks are losing less than you would expect then your deficit is actually smaller, meaning you are over estimating TDEE and/or under estimating calories consumed.

You do not need a deficit from BMR. I lose weight eating more than BMR. If you eat BMR of 2100, and have a TDEE of 3200 and you eat BMR you are in a deficit of 1100 cals. If is actually advised, unless you are obese, to not eat below BMR.

StaciMarie1974

In theory: TDEE - calories consumed = deficit when TDEE > consumed. That's why I said BMR, etc. does not matter when you have a tracker that gives you a value for TDEE. Even though its not 100% accurate (nothing is, really) there is no reason to worry about all the other calculated values for BMR, NEAT, etc.

Polar Loop value = TDEE. Even if you assume it to be inaccurate by 5-10%, its the best value you have now for TDEE. Again, just my opinion, but a tracker you wear daily and that can measure your actual movement is going to be at least as reliable as online calculators.

Things you can do:

• Give it more time as you're only about a month in (I think)
• Improve logging intake accuracy by more scale use
• Change something in your diet, in terms of macros/what you're eating (along the lines of - it can't hurt?)
• Get checked for thyroid, other medical issues

RNGRZulu

I must be a real water retaining MF'er. Had an average day yesterday. Nothing different.
Dropped from 230 to 227 in 24 hrs.

_Terrapin_

OP(RNGRZulu this is you) I'd open your diary for a start. Dropping 4 to 6 pounds in a hour long run is not uncommon for me( sweat, evaporation, etc). One year older, one inch shorter, BF @24% if this helps, 27 pounds lighter. The water loss depends on air temp, humidity, what I ate recently, and how much exertion I utilize. Finding your TDEE at your current weight is important relative to figuring out your deficit. The math isn't advanced but in your case I'd start with an open diary since you have experienced posters replying. Good luck.

mirrim52

I can easily fluctuate up to 5 lbs depending on what I ate the day before. Sodium really makes me retain water. I don't even bother weighing myself for 2 days if I have a high sodium day. And I am only 132 lbs, so 5 lbs is a lot, percent-wise.

Definitely clean up your logging before making major changes. If you aren't weighing all solids, you probably are underestimating what you are eating. Even if you think you are precise, do you know how accurate your implements are? I have two sets of measuring spoons, and they will give different amounts. Powders and things like oatmeal are especially prone to settling. 1/2 cup at time of manufacture won't have the same amount of product in it as 1/2 cup weeks later.

mycupyourcake

This (quote below). If I were you I would eat your BMR plus all your exercise calories back for 4 days and I bet you will see a hell of a lot of water weight loss. Also do not forget that with a new exercise program and heavy lifting your muscles will be retaining more water for repair. A lot of people actually go up in weight when they start running or lifting.

"So most likely, your cortisol levels are rising and causing you to retain water. You are not going to pack on lean mass faster than you can lose fat so that won't cause the scale to stall, but you can retain enough water weight to mask fat loss. You may want to also take measurements to make sure that there is movement in some fashion while you lose enough fat to offset the water gain.[/quote]"

Sued0nim

I've previously read that a polar loop can be out by 35%

Whatever as a 6' male you should lose on 1600 cals - if you're not check your logging and give it time

WalkingAlong

I agree with 'give it time'. You can't do the math on a short sample time because water weight doesn't have a caloric value attached and if your exercise level is new, water weight levels can be all over the place.

RNGRZulu

Ok...

Lost 2.3 lbs since last Sat.
Based on my plan...that was EXACTLY the projected loss I targeted based on my average weekly deficit.

Coincidence of course.

I missed two trips to the gym the past two days due to weather. Sat on my *kitten* most of yesterday. I just wasn't hungry at all. Had to force myself to eat yesterday and still ended up way under.

So, my calories from workouts was only 1870 for the week. My intake was 10,447 (avg 1,492 - too low, I know).

My weekly deficit came to 6158 which should have been a loss for the week of 1.76. My avg weekly deficit is 8,078 (2.3 lbs).

Progress: 7.3 lbs since 30 Jan.