Should men and women compete against each other in athletics?
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tornACL2012 wrote: »Does it work better in some sports like soccer, but not work for things like martial arts?
Why not? We're equal.
I'd like to see Junior Dos Santos against... well... anyone.
My dream fight is Ronda Rousey versus the 135lb men's champ (currently Dillashaw). I wonder if she'd make it through a round. I severely doubt it, a minute or two would be pushing it.0 -
uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »If we are going to do a true comparison in athleticism, it makes no sense to bring dedicating and commitment into it since those are really unmeasurable traits.
You know it when you see it, and that’s all that matters. You could be bigger, stronger and faster, but if you’re not making an effort, someone who is less endowed can kick your *kitten*. Since the OP was talking about general competition, I don’t immediately jump to the top of the food chain in each sport. I also don’t assume she meant sports that men would always have a physical advantage in (you and I would look pretty weak playing a in a college level field hockey match).
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tornACL2012 wrote: »Does it work better in some sports like soccer, but not work for things like martial arts?
Why not? We're equal.
I'd like to see Junior Dos Santos against... well... anyone.
My dream fight is Ronda Rousey versus the 135lb men's champ (currently Dillashaw). I wonder if she'd make it through a round. I severely doubt it, a minute or two would be pushing it.
Her vs GSP would be good for me. To hell with weight classes.0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »If we are going to do a true comparison in athleticism, it makes no sense to bring dedicating and commitment into it since those are really unmeasurable traits.
You know it when you see it, and that’s all that matters. You could be bigger, stronger and faster, but if you’re not making an effort, someone who is less endowed can kick your *kitten*. Since the OP was talking about general competition, I don’t immediately jump to the top of the food chain in each sport. I also don’t assume she meant sports that men would always have a physical advantage in (you and I would look pretty weak playing a in a college level field hockey match).
Meh. I've seen monster athletes with no motivation absolutely stuff people in competition who are trying hard. Then they just laugh and walk away.0 -
I don't know? There are physiological limits. In some sports, men only compete with other men in their weight class, probably for good reason.
The women at the top 10% probably represent our limits, but I do think that the anemic feeder systems for women in a lot of sports means we have no idea what kind of potential just isn't being tapped. Who knows what things could look like if young girls had the same encouragement and infrastructure boys have enjoyed.0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »Yes, they should. I played three on three sand volleyball today, the other team had woman. She was far better skilled than me in back court, which gave her team a competitive advantage over us. Women have always been given crutches, many use them even when they don’t need to. I’d take a committed woman over an uncommitted man any day.
What about a committed woman vs a committed man? Why is it always 'Good thing vs bad thing' and not 'good thing vs good thing'.
This reeks of 'Balanced diet Vs Only poptarts and chocolate'0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »Yes, they should. I played three on three sand volleyball today, the other team had woman. She was far better skilled than me in back court, which gave her team a competitive advantage over us. Women have always been given crutches, many use them even when they don’t need to. I’d take a committed woman over an uncommitted man any day.
What about a committed woman vs a committed man? Why is it always 'Good thing vs bad thing' and not 'good thing vs good thing'.
This reeks of 'Balanced diet Vs Only poptarts and chocolate'
In sports that both women and men play, men have consistently been better than the women. So, apples to apples, men win. Is that what you needed to hear?
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No.0
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AllanMisner wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »Yes, they should. I played three on three sand volleyball today, the other team had woman. She was far better skilled than me in back court, which gave her team a competitive advantage over us. Women have always been given crutches, many use them even when they don’t need to. I’d take a committed woman over an uncommitted man any day.
What about a committed woman vs a committed man? Why is it always 'Good thing vs bad thing' and not 'good thing vs good thing'.
This reeks of 'Balanced diet Vs Only poptarts and chocolate'
In sports that both women and men play, men have consistently been better than the women. So, apples to apples, men win. Is that what you needed to hear?
I just like things to be straight forward and not skewed by silly conditions and 'if' statements. To put qualifiers like 'dedication' and 'will' on things makes them meaningless statements.0 -
Lumpy52403 wrote: »Definitely not in sports that require bodily contact with each other, such as wrestling or football. Performing those sports requires physical contact that is inappropriate between people of the opposite sex.
I used to do no gi jui-jitsu and regularly trained with guys (where you have a guy between your legs or vice versa hald the time) as there were no other women. It was totally fine and appropriate.0 -
lishie_rebooted wrote: »I want to add and I'm too lazy to edit...
It all depends on the determination of the people.
The weak-willed will always fail regardless of gender.
So, genetics and basic aptitude have no play in it?0 -
In answer to the OP, in most cases, no.0
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dougpconnell219 wrote: »In most sports, men just have an insurmountable size advantage.
All other things being equal, size usually wins.
Running? Every stride a taller male takes eats up more ground. A shorter woman has to take x number more strides to cover the she ground.
Martial arts? The larger man has a reach advantage, and is probably more able to throw his lighter female opponent than vice versa.
There are probably some sports where it could work though. Tennis? Golf?
Why are you assuming that women are smaller?
I am taller and stronger than 90% of the men I encounter.
As long as the men can handle being beaten...why not?0 -
myfelinepal wrote: »Because at the physical pinnacle, men would beat women every time in most sports. There's records to prove it and everything. For instance, Flo Jo's world record is almost a second slower than Usain Bolt's.
That makes her faster than 99% of men.
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In things like archery, sure, but not in things where men (or women) have the physiological advantage.0
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myfelinepal wrote: »Because at the physical pinnacle, men would beat women every time in most sports. There's records to prove it and everything. For instance, Flo Jo's world record is almost a second slower than Usain Bolt's.
That makes her faster than 99% of men.
Which is fine if an elite level female competes against non elite level men. But unless you handicap the field, its just not comparable.
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myfelinepal wrote: »Because at the physical pinnacle, men would beat women every time in most sports. There's records to prove it and everything. For instance, Flo Jo's world record is almost a second slower than Usain Bolt's.
That makes her faster than 99% of men.
Oh right, Flo Jo! I remember watching her and thinking she was amazing. Just now googled, lots of talk about steroids.
(Which then led to reading about East German teen athletes being unknowingly doped in the 80s. Sad stories there, they had no choice in it at all
) 0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »If we are going to do a true comparison in athleticism, it makes no sense to bring dedicating and commitment into it since those are really unmeasurable traits.
You know it when you see it, and that’s all that matters. You could be bigger, stronger and faster, but if you’re not making an effort, someone who is less endowed can kick your *kitten*. Since the OP was talking about general competition, I don’t immediately jump to the top of the food chain in each sport. I also don’t assume she meant sports that men would always have a physical advantage in (you and I would look pretty weak playing a in a college level field hockey match).
I don't think the OP specified whether they were talking about in general or not or what kind of sports.
Since we are bringing up things like commitment and mental fortitude, it makes sense to compare at an elite level since I'm pretty sure most of us can agree that those who reach those levels are not lacking there.
But I asked earlier, if men are going to compete against women in general, is that going to carry over to elite levels? If we arent going to compete against each other at elite levels, why do it at lower?
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tornACL2012 wrote: »Does it work better in some sports like soccer, but not work for things like martial arts?
For some sports gender will have less of an influence over the results than other factors. For some sports more of an influence. Equally it depends on the level.
Given high volume, very specific, training then it's easy to see why the physiological differences will have a more pronounced effect.0 -
On a hobbyist level? Absolutely, and we already do.
On a pro level? Well... I only know a few cases, two female hockey players (the hands down best forward in the world, Haley Wickenheiser and the hands down best goalie in the world, Noora Räty) both have played some games in the third highest men's division in Finland with, well, average results. So, the top-2 professionally competing women in the world are doing OK against men with day jobs in a physical team sport.
Ice hockey in general, the women's national squad in Finland (nr. 3 in the world) are usually playing some off-season practice games against 14-16 year old boys, and for the most part I seem to recall that the boys come out on top.
There are some female drivers as well that I know off, but none of them have really made it on the highest levels. This is probably at least partially because of the very limited interest in motorsports among women. There could very well be some superb drivers out there who have never even thought of the possibility of competing, even on a hobbyist level.0
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