can stronglift be reduced to 3x5?
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Different program, but very similar (I believe the big difference is cleans instead of OHP?). The overall point being 3x5 is fine...Ilikelamps wrote: »SL is specifically designed to go down to 3x5 and then 1x5 as you progress. So yes, 3x5 is fine assuming intensity is there. Worst case, progress may be slower. Not the end of the world.
yeah^...also, starting strength is 3x5..Progress may even be quicker in terms of weight because you may be able to add weight quicker while only doing 3 sets.
But SS is slightly different right?
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Yeah I get that but how do you find the right balance? I'm fine lifting weights if I can still lose weight. I was getting up at 4:30 to get to the gym by 5 to lift, I have to be home by 6:30 cause that's when the wife leaves for work. I can go on a walk at lunch time to get my cardio in. Its the weekends that are more of a time constraint for me. On the days I lift and walk I probably eat over 1800 to 2k calories (net is about 1340 because I burned 600+ calories). Is that enough? But on days I don't have time to get a walk in, I want to be able to shorten my lift and get my cardio in without spending more than an hour to an hour and 15 minutes (cause wife is usually doing a class and we go together)
That's why I was asking about going to 3 sets.
Almost the exact same boat I'm in timewise. gym opens at 5 and I need to be home by 6:30 to get in the shower and make it to work. I really can't get to the gym during my 30 minute lunch and generally am solo childcare more evenings than not.
I dropped all cardio to focus more on strength over Nov-Jan because of time and as of Feb 1st switched to 3x5 to save time and reinstate cardio for dropping fat. As others have said 3x5 is plenty to maintain strength and muscle.
The thing many folks find from doing all cardio/ calorie deficit is that you stay pretty close to the same shape just smaller. Many folks get to their life time "goal" weight and are still unhappy with the way they look. Those who lift the whole time see their shape change more as well due to holding onto muscle while losing fat.
And you gotta make your own decisions on calories. You are a grown man. I ate in the 1200 calorie range myself because that's what MFP told me to do initially to lose 2 lbs a week. I was pretty miserable. For comparison, right now I do 3x5 3x a week and then put in a mile alternating between 4 mph 1 minute and 8mph 2 minutes. I eat around 1700 calories at a towering 5 foot 8 inch 155# dude.0 -
SL 5x5 should only take 45min and cardio on those days is kind of dangerous in terms of over training. Cardio on off days should be fine. If you're doing 5x5 with 2 min btwn exercises and 30 sec btwn sets, you'll get the heart pumping anyway.0
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SL 5x5 should only take 45min and cardio on those days is kind of dangerous in terms of over training. Cardio on off days should be fine. If you're doing 5x5 with 2 min btwn exercises and 30 sec btwn sets, you'll get the heart pumping anyway.
Dangerous???
You can be that specific with rest periods. Early on in SL's yeah getting 30-60 sec's is probably plenty but when it starts to get heavy, you'll need the 2 to 4 min's to replenish ATP stores. This isn't CrossFit, doesn't matter how fast you finish (*not a knock against CF).0 -
The dude that promotes SL recommends you not to do cardio on your off days but states it is OK to do it directly after. Now I don't think Mehdi is the world's leading source on lifting wisdom, but there's nothing wrong with cardio post lifting and I actually think it helps loosen my quads and lower back to run a mid paced mile afterwards.
And I would say if you are doing 30 seconds between sets that you must be early in the program. Even when I get a set and programming says 3 minutes I sometimes need 5 to actually get 5 of the next set. 30 sec rests and I would probably squatting 50 lbs less.0 -
Mehdi isn't the world's leading source on anything. He did well in marketing an old lifting protocol. Which he uses to claim expert quals, but I'd like to see his educational pedigree and his body of original research contribution.0
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You can do what you want, however stronglifts doesn't reccomend moving to 3x5 until yiu have failed 3 times after deload. and for those questioning the time, if you are working hard at stronglifts the workouts will take near an hour with 3 minute breaks becoming more common. When you reach the top end of your strength, like me squatting 2x body weight you need the rest, especially if you add warm ups. If its a time thing, really I would try my best to keep up with stronglifts. Cardio isn't all that necessary with the stronglifts program as you will burn quite a few calories in one session. I would clock a good session at 400 calories over the next 24 hours. And honestly if you want to get strong, I'd eat much more calories. I eat 2560 calories a day whether I workout or not and I have gained no weight back. It all about the fuel you put in your body and less about the calories. More muscle requires more calories. But not crap food. 90% single ingredient items.0
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How precisely did you arrive at this "400 calorie burn" number?0
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Mehdi isn't the world's leading source on anything. He did well in marketing an old lifting protocol. Which he uses to claim expert quals, but I'd like to see his educational pedigree and his body of original research contribution.
How dare you speak about the god of MFP that way, blasphemous. You know there is nothing better than StrongLifts don't you?
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Starting Strength, heretic.Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Mehdi isn't the world's leading source on anything. He did well in marketing an old lifting protocol. Which he uses to claim expert quals, but I'd like to see his educational pedigree and his body of original research contribution.
How dare you speak about the god of MFP that way, blasphemous. You know there is nothing better than StrongLifts don't you?
I'll now burn you after I eat your heart to steal your strength.
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Mehdi isn't the world's leading source on anything. He did well in marketing an old lifting protocol. Which he uses to claim expert quals, but I'd like to see his educational pedigree and his body of original research contribution.
Mehdi is the world's leading source on how awesome Mehdi is. Mehdi designed a pretty functional app and marketed a very basic training protocol very similar to a half dozen others. He's no trainer and he's not remarkably strong. I don't know that he's anymore self promoting than Rippetoe. But that's a separate subject than what the OP is looking for.0 -
you should not really change a structured program..it is designed to be 5x5 for a reason …I would suggest lowering the weights and still doing 5x5….0
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I try to get cardio in because my calorie goal to lose 2lbs a week is low is 1370, so I like to burn calories so I can eat more. I get that number based off mfp and I know its accurate because for 2 weeks I ignored that number and went 1500 instead and my weight loss was 1lb in both of those 2 weeks.
Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories, at least not in a quantitative manner like cardio does.
SL takes me about 45 to 55 minutes now that the weight has gotten heavier and I'm.having to do 3 minute breaks instead of 1.5 minutes. On workout A, the rests alone take 36 minutes minimum (5 sets with a rest after the first 4, not even counting the time it takes to get the setup for the next workout and the warmups. )
Its minimum 45. Today with deadlifts it took me 45 minutes and that was doing a mixture of 1.5 and 3 min rests between sets. Squats were not hard but I'm almost struggling with OH presses so I rested the full 3 on those.
1370 is tough to achieve without any exercise which is why I always do something, even if its just a brisk 20 minute walk.
LOL at a male only eating 1370 calories a day ….
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I try to get cardio in because my calorie goal to lose 2lbs a week is low is 1370, so I like to burn calories so I can eat more. I get that number based off mfp and I know its accurate because for 2 weeks I ignored that number and went 1500 instead and my weight loss was 1lb in both of those 2 weeks.
Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories, at least not in a quantitative manner like cardio does.
SL takes me about 45 to 55 minutes now that the weight has gotten heavier and I'm.having to do 3 minute breaks instead of 1.5 minutes. On workout A, the rests alone take 36 minutes minimum (5 sets with a rest after the first 4, not even counting the time it takes to get the setup for the next workout and the warmups. )
Its minimum 45. Today with deadlifts it took me 45 minutes and that was doing a mixture of 1.5 and 3 min rests between sets. Squats were not hard but I'm almost struggling with OH presses so I rested the full 3 on those.
1370 is tough to achieve without any exercise which is why I always do something, even if its just a brisk 20 minute walk.
LOL at a male only eating 1370 calories a day ….
Lol learn to read the entire thread because I have stated at least twice that I don't eat 1370 calories...0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Mehdi isn't the world's leading source on anything. He did well in marketing an old lifting protocol. Which he uses to claim expert quals, but I'd like to see his educational pedigree and his body of original research contribution.
How dare you speak about the god of MFP that way, blasphemous. You know there is nothing better than StrongLifts don't you?
The program is great but Medhi is such a douche.
Plus people typically say "Look at starting strength, stronglifts, etc"
SS gets top billing lol0 -
I try to get cardio in because my calorie goal to lose 2lbs a week is low is 1370, so I like to burn calories so I can eat more. I get that number based off mfp and I know its accurate because for 2 weeks I ignored that number and went 1500 instead and my weight loss was 1lb in both of those 2 weeks.
Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories, at least not in a quantitative manner like cardio does.
SL takes me about 45 to 55 minutes now that the weight has gotten heavier and I'm.having to do 3 minute breaks instead of 1.5 minutes. On workout A, the rests alone take 36 minutes minimum (5 sets with a rest after the first 4, not even counting the time it takes to get the setup for the next workout and the warmups. )
Its minimum 45. Today with deadlifts it took me 45 minutes and that was doing a mixture of 1.5 and 3 min rests between sets. Squats were not hard but I'm almost struggling with OH presses so I rested the full 3 on those.
1370 is tough to achieve without any exercise which is why I always do something, even if its just a brisk 20 minute walk.
LOL at a male only eating 1370 calories a day ….
Lol learn to read the entire thread because I have stated at least twice that I don't eat 1370 calories...
hmmm interesting, considering several times you said you net 1340 …..if you are netting 1340 that is what you are consuming right….?/
calories consumed - calories burned = net calories ?
but hey, do what works for you brother…
the reason that you are having issues completing strong lifts at 5x5 is probably because you are netting so little calories….0 -
lishie_rebooted wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Mehdi isn't the world's leading source on anything. He did well in marketing an old lifting protocol. Which he uses to claim expert quals, but I'd like to see his educational pedigree and his body of original research contribution.
How dare you speak about the god of MFP that way, blasphemous. You know there is nothing better than StrongLifts don't you?
The program is great but Medhi is such a douche.
Plus people typically say "Look at starting strength, stronglifts, etc"
SS gets top billing lol
it seems like a good beginner program for people new to lifting, that is only reason I recommend it...0 -
So an adult male netting 1370?
*nvm I think ndj1979 just answered that for me. I also believe the struggles to complete your sets could be from low calorie intake (grain of salt).0 -
I try to get cardio in because my calorie goal to lose 2lbs a week is low is 1370, so I like to burn calories so I can eat more. I get that number based off mfp and I know its accurate because for 2 weeks I ignored that number and went 1500 instead and my weight loss was 1lb in both of those 2 weeks.
Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories, at least not in a quantitative manner like cardio does.
SL takes me about 45 to 55 minutes now that the weight has gotten heavier and I'm.having to do 3 minute breaks instead of 1.5 minutes. On workout A, the rests alone take 36 minutes minimum (5 sets with a rest after the first 4, not even counting the time it takes to get the setup for the next workout and the warmups. )
Its minimum 45. Today with deadlifts it took me 45 minutes and that was doing a mixture of 1.5 and 3 min rests between sets. Squats were not hard but I'm almost struggling with OH presses so I rested the full 3 on those.
1370 is tough to achieve without any exercise which is why I always do something, even if its just a brisk 20 minute walk.
LOL at a male only eating 1370 calories a day ….
Lol learn to read the entire thread because I have stated at least twice that I don't eat 1370 calories...
hmmm interesting, considering several times you said you net 1340 …..if you are netting 1340 that is what you are consuming right….?/
calories consumed - calories burned = net calories ?
but hey, do what works for you brother…
the reason that you are having issues completing strong lifts at 5x5 is probably because you are netting so little calories….
If I am netting 1370, obviously that's not what I'm consuming. I've also gone to 2 different nutritionists (and BTW I hate nutritionist) and they both told me basically the same thing. Consume between 1500 to 1800 calories and don't worry about eating exercise calories back. I've also seen at least 50 diaries on mfp where grown *kitten* men net below 1400 calories, I've seen as low as 1000 calories (hell early on when I was doing cardio only I was netting between 1000 and 1,200). Having known people who have had weight loss surgery I know for a fact a grown *kitten* man can survive on far less than 1370 net calories, my uncle only consumes 1000 to 1200 calories a day. But thanks for your input.0 -
you should not really change a structured program..it is designed to be 5x5 for a reason …I would suggest lowering the weights and still doing 5x5….
You have to look at the reasons behind the volume. It's generally stated as volume for more hypertrophy (even though strength is the main focus) and practicing form. I can't answer for OP if he feels he has practiced the form enough yet, but generally when people are struggling with time due to longer rest times it is because they are starting to see more failure. I don't see why SL 5x5 switched to 3x5 is much different than the cutting version of ICF (except that it doesnt have all the assistance work tacked on) or SS which is 3x5 and basically switches out the row and cleans.
Anyway you hack it he has to modify a program. When he's looking at modifying what he's already doing, starting a new similar program, or him cutting the strength and muscle maintaining portion out... to me just dropping to 3x5 seems the most simple solution for what his goals are.0 -
jenglish712 wrote: »Mehdi isn't the world's leading source on anything. He did well in marketing an old lifting protocol. Which he uses to claim expert quals, but I'd like to see his educational pedigree and his body of original research contribution.
Mehdi is the world's leading source on how awesome Mehdi is. Mehdi designed a pretty functional app and marketed a very basic training protocol very similar to a half dozen others. He's no trainer and he's not remarkably strong. I don't know that he's anymore self promoting than Rippetoe. But that's a separate subject than what the OP is looking for.
This made me lol for realz.0 -
Yeah I have no idea if my form is on point or not, I tried to videotape myself and my phone kept falling over. I did get someone to video my squats, overhead press, and deadlift. I also got advice about my rows but haven't shown anyone my videos yet for critique0
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Yeah I have no idea if my form is on point or not, I tried to videotape myself and my phone kept falling over. I did get someone to video my squats, overhead press, and deadlift. I also got advice about my rows but haven't shown anyone my videos yet for critique
This is a great place to get form critique:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/911984/form-critique-thread-post-your-videos-here0 -
Thx, I gotta upload them, maybe tonight0
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I try to get cardio in because my calorie goal to lose 2lbs a week is low is 1370, so I like to burn calories so I can eat more. I get that number based off mfp and I know its accurate because for 2 weeks I ignored that number and went 1500 instead and my weight loss was 1lb in both of those 2 weeks.
Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories, at least not in a quantitative manner like cardio does.
SL takes me about 45 to 55 minutes now that the weight has gotten heavier and I'm.having to do 3 minute breaks instead of 1.5 minutes. On workout A, the rests alone take 36 minutes minimum (5 sets with a rest after the first 4, not even counting the time it takes to get the setup for the next workout and the warmups. )
Its minimum 45. Today with deadlifts it took me 45 minutes and that was doing a mixture of 1.5 and 3 min rests between sets. Squats were not hard but I'm almost struggling with OH presses so I rested the full 3 on those.
1370 is tough to achieve without any exercise which is why I always do something, even if its just a brisk 20 minute walk.
LOL at a male only eating 1370 calories a day ….
Lol learn to read the entire thread because I have stated at least twice that I don't eat 1370 calories...
hmmm interesting, considering several times you said you net 1340 …..if you are netting 1340 that is what you are consuming right….?/
calories consumed - calories burned = net calories ?
but hey, do what works for you brother…
the reason that you are having issues completing strong lifts at 5x5 is probably because you are netting so little calories….
If I am netting 1370, obviously that's not what I'm consuming. I've also gone to 2 different nutritionists (and BTW I hate nutritionist) and they both told me basically the same thing. Consume between 1500 to 1800 calories and don't worry about eating exercise calories back. I've also seen at least 50 diaries on mfp where grown *kitten* men net below 1400 calories, I've seen as low as 1000 calories (hell early on when I was doing cardio only I was netting between 1000 and 1,200). Having known people who have had weight loss surgery I know for a fact a grown *kitten* man can survive on far less than 1370 net calories, my uncle only consumes 1000 to 1200 calories a day. But thanks for your input.
Ok..
good luck trying to incorporate a heavy lifting/strength program with a such a low net intake...
as an FYI, I have females on my friends list that consume more than you do....0 -
jenglish712 wrote: »you should not really change a structured program..it is designed to be 5x5 for a reason …I would suggest lowering the weights and still doing 5x5….
You have to look at the reasons behind the volume. It's generally stated as volume for more hypertrophy (even though strength is the main focus) and practicing form. I can't answer for OP if he feels he has practiced the form enough yet, but generally when people are struggling with time due to longer rest times it is because they are starting to see more failure. I don't see why SL 5x5 switched to 3x5 is much different than the cutting version of ICF (except that it doesnt have all the assistance work tacked on) or SS which is 3x5 and basically switches out the row and cleans.
Anyway you hack it he has to modify a program. When he's looking at modifying what he's already doing, starting a new similar program, or him cutting the strength and muscle maintaining portion out... to me just dropping to 3x5 seems the most simple solution for what his goals are.
true ..
I just think that programs should be run as designed...
if OP has an issue with stronglifts then he could switch to a different program, or deload the weight to where he can do 5x5 ...that is all I was trying to say ...0 -
jenglish712 wrote: »you should not really change a structured program..it is designed to be 5x5 for a reason …I would suggest lowering the weights and still doing 5x5….
You have to look at the reasons behind the volume. It's generally stated as volume for more hypertrophy (even though strength is the main focus) and practicing form. I can't answer for OP if he feels he has practiced the form enough yet, but generally when people are struggling with time due to longer rest times it is because they are starting to see more failure. I don't see why SL 5x5 switched to 3x5 is much different than the cutting version of ICF (except that it doesnt have all the assistance work tacked on) or SS which is 3x5 and basically switches out the row and cleans.
Anyway you hack it he has to modify a program. When he's looking at modifying what he's already doing, starting a new similar program, or him cutting the strength and muscle maintaining portion out... to me just dropping to 3x5 seems the most simple solution for what his goals are.
true ..
I just think that programs should be run as designed...
if OP has an issue with stronglifts then he could switch to a different program, or deload the weight to where he can do 5x5 ...that is all I was trying to say ...
The issue isn't the weight.
It's how long it takes.0 -
lishie_rebooted wrote: »jenglish712 wrote: »you should not really change a structured program..it is designed to be 5x5 for a reason …I would suggest lowering the weights and still doing 5x5….
You have to look at the reasons behind the volume. It's generally stated as volume for more hypertrophy (even though strength is the main focus) and practicing form. I can't answer for OP if he feels he has practiced the form enough yet, but generally when people are struggling with time due to longer rest times it is because they are starting to see more failure. I don't see why SL 5x5 switched to 3x5 is much different than the cutting version of ICF (except that it doesnt have all the assistance work tacked on) or SS which is 3x5 and basically switches out the row and cleans.
Anyway you hack it he has to modify a program. When he's looking at modifying what he's already doing, starting a new similar program, or him cutting the strength and muscle maintaining portion out... to me just dropping to 3x5 seems the most simple solution for what his goals are.
true ..
I just think that programs should be run as designed...
if OP has an issue with stronglifts then he could switch to a different program, or deload the weight to where he can do 5x5 ...that is all I was trying to say ...
The issue isn't the weight.
It's how long it takes.
Isn't it taking longer because the weight is high enough that he has to rest longer between sets? I think he put it on the first page.
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lishie_rebooted wrote: »jenglish712 wrote: »you should not really change a structured program..it is designed to be 5x5 for a reason …I would suggest lowering the weights and still doing 5x5….
You have to look at the reasons behind the volume. It's generally stated as volume for more hypertrophy (even though strength is the main focus) and practicing form. I can't answer for OP if he feels he has practiced the form enough yet, but generally when people are struggling with time due to longer rest times it is because they are starting to see more failure. I don't see why SL 5x5 switched to 3x5 is much different than the cutting version of ICF (except that it doesnt have all the assistance work tacked on) or SS which is 3x5 and basically switches out the row and cleans.
Anyway you hack it he has to modify a program. When he's looking at modifying what he's already doing, starting a new similar program, or him cutting the strength and muscle maintaining portion out... to me just dropping to 3x5 seems the most simple solution for what his goals are.
true ..
I just think that programs should be run as designed...
if OP has an issue with stronglifts then he could switch to a different program, or deload the weight to where he can do 5x5 ...that is all I was trying to say ...
The issue isn't the weight.
It's how long it takes.
Isn't it taking longer because the weight is high enough that he has to rest longer between sets? I think he put it on the first page.
Yeah 3min break instead of the 1.5min
Does Medhi say to automatically double the rest period length when the weights get heavy?
I'm focusing on running not lifting so my weights are heavy enough to challenge me but light enough I can run 12hrs later so I don't need the long rest periods.
Also, since OP has stated that he doesn't want to get huge/whatever, wouldn't it be just a beneficial to slow the progression on adding weight? Instead of the 5# every workout, add 5# a week? That's kind of how I'm running it so I can still run.
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