is lifting the only/best way to retain muscle?
Replies
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Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
take a giant step back.
We are NOT turning this into a giant racism/nazi thread.
it's not relevant to the discussion at hand regarding lifting and muscle retention.
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So are we engaging or if I reply would that just be turning this into a giant racism/Nazi thread?
Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
take a giant step back.
We are NOT turning this into a giant racism/nazi thread.
it's not relevant to the discussion at hand regarding lifting and muscle retention.
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No_Finish_Line wrote: »BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »Physical effects--whether from structured exercise or other activity--occur as a result of the type of activity. Maintenance of muscle can be affected by a number of factors like diet and macro balance. If protein intake is sufficient, there is plenty of research showing that endurance athletes can maintain both nitrogen balance and muscle mass even with hours of aerobic training per week. There was a recent study (sorry didn't keep the link) that showed that a protein intake of double he RDA prevented muscle loss in people using diet alone to lose weight.
OTOH the benefits of resistance training are so far reaching, it's something that should be done on its own merits. But that also can take many forms, not just heavy lifting.
I like this answer. I have seen people retain muscle without lifting.
there's nothing here that says how long those studies were done for. you could probably stop lifting for a week, or two, maybe even a month and if you were eating well you might not lose much or any muscle mass but eventually I suspect you would
Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much but I think the claims that you are going to shrink away to nothing but fat, bones and skin if you don't lift are over exaggerated. My husband is an endurance athlete who hasn't lifted regularly in years, and still has a decent amount of lean mass (not body builder big, but above average). I lifted in college and high school but took years off and still wasn't "skinny fat". I'm not saying no one should lift, you absolutely should, but it's really not the end of the world if you don't do it, or don't focus on it for a few months out of the year (like during bike season or whatever).0 -
Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
IKR, why does it matter? Because...common sense.
It's a public forum with rules for baiting. Not sure how a racist avatar wouldn't be considered baiting at it's highest level...
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Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
IKR, why does it matter? Because...common sense.
It's a public forum with rules for baiting. Not sure how a racist avatar wouldn't be considered baiting at it's highest level...
I'd put money on that not even being his picture. So whomever's picture he stole off the internet has a "white pride" tattoo.
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BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »
Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
IKR, why does it matter? Because...common sense.
It's a public forum with rules for baiting. Not sure how a racist avatar wouldn't be considered baiting at it's highest level...
I'd put money on that not even being his picture. So whomever's picture he stole off the internet has a "white pride" tattoo.
Point would still remain...
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But if we just pretend it doesn't matter and go back to talking about lifting- race baiting avoided.
soooooooooooooooooo
back to lifting.
negativeSo are we engaging
I like to lift- lots of lifting lift lift lift lift. Do you lift?0 -
BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »
Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
IKR, why does it matter? Because...common sense.
It's a public forum with rules for baiting. Not sure how a racist avatar wouldn't be considered baiting at it's highest level...
I'd put money on that not even being his picture. So whomever's picture he stole off the internet has a "white pride" tattoo.
Point would still remain...
No, good call, it's gross. People can do what they like but using a pic with something like that as an avatar isn't conducive to community, like at all0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204826
Even with this unrealistic 800 calorie a day diet. The resistance trained group came out way ahead.
From Bret Contreras on this study:
"The cardio training group lost 28.2 lbs of fat, lost 9.0 lbs of lean body mass, and decreased resting metabolic rate by 210.7 calories per day. On the other hand, the resistance training group lost 32.0 lbs of fat, lost only 1.8 lbs of lean body mass, and increased resting metabolic rate by 63.3 calories per day"0 -
Maybe I'm being completely naive, but I wouldn't think a whole lot if a black guy had a black pride tattoo. I'd just think that he was proud of his race.0
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Physical effects--whether from structured exercise or other activity--occur as a result of the type of activity. Maintenance of muscle can be affected by a number of factors like diet and macro balance. If protein intake is sufficient, there is plenty of research showing that endurance athletes can maintain both nitrogen balance and muscle mass even with hours of aerobic training per week. There was a recent study (sorry didn't keep the link) that showed that a protein intake of double he RDA prevented muscle loss in people using diet alone to lose weight.
OTOH the benefits of resistance training are so far reaching, it's something that should be done on its own merits. But that also can take many forms, not just heavy lifting.
I am with azdak on this.
Someone said that soccer players lift weights. Sometimes. Sometimes not. They get big legs from running. You could say it is sprinting, but they do a lot of slow jogs as well. My brother played competitive soccer all through high school, and then he would jog hills to keep in shape. At age 18 years, his legs were tree trunks, as big as any cyclist's I have ever seen. No weights.
I think sometimes we misconstrue the situation. We look at distance runners and they are skinny and we assume running ate up their bodies and made them skinny. But the opposite probably also is true. If you are skinny, running is easier and more rewarding,so you become a long-distance runner. If you are thick and short-limbed, you try weight lifting, and you do pretty well at it, so you keep it up.
So, sometimes I think we look at body types and assume the activity made that body. Instead of the fact that sometimes people have a body type for an activity and so they do it.
I am not saying that weight-lifting doesn't build muscle. Certainly it does. But that doesn't mean that the people who build muscle weren't primed for it, or that people who don't lift weights but are active are going to lose muscle.0 -
But if we just pretend it doesn't matter and go back to talking about lifting- race baiting avoided.
soooooooooooooooooo
back to lifting.
negativeSo are we engaging
I like to lift- lots of lifting lift lift lift lift. Do you lift?
I mean...my heaviest pair of dumbbells are 10 lb so not sure if that even counts, but I do weighted squats and lunges with them, plus I do bicep/tricep/shoulder exercises with them as well. I don't measure my BF so I guess I have no way of knowing whether I'm preserving LBM or not?
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204826
Even with this unrealistic 800 calorie a day diet. The resistance trained group came out way ahead.
From Bret Contreras on this study:
"The cardio training group lost 28.2 lbs of fat, lost 9.0 lbs of lean body mass, and decreased resting metabolic rate by 210.7 calories per day. On the other hand, the resistance training group lost 32.0 lbs of fat, lost only 1.8 lbs of lean body mass, and increased resting metabolic rate by 63.3 calories per day"
But that's on 800 calories a day. Lifting and protein are very important on VLCD to preserve muscle mass. But what about on a small calorie deficit with lots of protein and other activities? Or what about at maintenance? Will your muscles spontaneously dissolve without lifting? Like I said, I'm sure lifting IS best, but is it always, 100%, the ONLY thing that will preserve your muscles?0 -
Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
I think there's an assumption going on there (that may or may not be accurate). I would ask them why before I jumped to conclusions myself but that's just me.
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I feel like most everyone agrees that heavy lifting will encourage muscle retention.
Agree. One of the big three pillars for retaining LBM along with an appropriate (not excessive) calorie deficit and sufficient protein intake.
I feel like there's growing support for HIIT as a muscle-retaining exercise.
I think HIIT has become the current fashion statement / unicorn poo - luckily it seems most people who claim to be doing HIIT really aren't (intervals yes, HIIT rarely).
I feel like steady state cardio gets demonized as a muscle destroyer.
Agree. As long as it's fueled correctly there's no real evidence steady state cardio "destroys muscle". It's really hard and unlikely for people to use muscle as fuel if they are eating correctly. People seems to misunderstand that many endurance athletes simply have to be light - that's a performance choice and not as a result of doing endurance cardio.
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Anyone with any meaningful insight on this?
The muscles you use are the muscles your body will try and retain in a caloric deficit situation. How you use them - whether you're doing leg presses in a gym or trying push your scrum forward - doesn't really matter that much.
That's assuming the goal is retention. If the real goal is puffing your body up to look like an over-upholstered couch...well, that requires a different answer. :drinker:0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »
He looks kind of on the small side for a sprinter to me.
Here is the fastest white dude in (as far as we know) history...160 pounds of unleashed lightning painted on a 6'2" canvas...
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Agree here. Macros do count and carbs and protein are muscle sparing.Physical effects--whether from structured exercise or other activity--occur as a result of the type of activity. Maintenance of muscle can be affected by a number of factors like diet and macro balance. If protein intake is sufficient, there is plenty of research showing that endurance athletes can maintain both nitrogen balance and muscle mass even with hours of aerobic training per week. There was a recent study (sorry didn't keep the link) that showed that a protein intake of double he RDA prevented muscle loss in people using diet alone to lose weight.
OTOH the benefits of resistance training are so far reaching, it's something that should be done on its own merits. But that also can take many forms, not just heavy lifting.
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Im still following along, just a lot to reply to from my phone.
Just to restate/clarify, I do ask the question within the context of a calorie deficit. For the sake of this discussion, lets assume the deficit is reasonable (not extreme), and macros are also reasonable, not horribly unbalanced or lacking in any particular area.0 -
This. Alan Webb actually added about 25-30 pounds of muscle (much of it in his upper body --- he used to be bigger than the picture I posted) while running relatively high mileage weeks at UVA, and --- as he later admitted --- it was a disaster for his running. Carrying around all that upper body weight did not help him run faster. I think often it's a choice. Decathletes run lots of miles, but they are strong as hell in order to do field events.I feel like most everyone agrees that heavy lifting will encourage muscle retention.
Agree. One of the big three pillars for retaining LBM along with an appropriate (not excessive) calorie deficit and sufficient protein intake.
I feel like there's growing support for HIIT as a muscle-retaining exercise.
I think HIIT has become the current fashion statement / unicorn poo - luckily it seems most people who claim to be doing HIIT really aren't (intervals yes, HIIT rarely).
I feel like steady state cardio gets demonized as a muscle destroyer.
Agree. As long as it's fueled correctly there's no real evidence steady state cardio "destroys muscle". It's really hard and unlikely for people to use muscle as fuel if they are eating correctly. People seems to misunderstand that many endurance athletes simply have to be light - that's a performance choice and not as a result of doing endurance cardio.0 -
I would generally agree but in this case engaging it on our own instead of helping/addressing OP isn't any issue..... .And the guy hasn't come back- soooooooooooooo pretty much he just trolled us.
sometimes- refusal to engage IS the best answer- like a child throwing a temper tantrum.
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I mean...my heaviest pair of dumbbells are 10 lb so not sure if that even counts, but I do weighted squats and lunges with them, plus I do bicep/tricep/shoulder exercises with them as well. I don't measure my BF so I guess I have no way of knowing whether I'm preserving LBM or not?
meh- you're working- that's all that matters- in context of this discussion in terms of retaining muscle- doing work is good- even body weight- at some point you'll probably want to move up in difficulty- doing them endlessly will get boring- and won't help your muscles any more than the first 10-15 of them. But doing body weight work- is unquestionably helpful for retaining muscles.
Yes- moving- on- let's move on- this could have been a great discussion damn!T!0 -
Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
take a giant step back.
We are NOT turning this into a giant racism/nazi thread.
it's not relevant to the discussion at hand regarding lifting and muscle retention.
I dunno. I mean, I'm certainly curious.0 -
BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »
Why don't you change your profile pic to a swastika, if it doesn't matter? I dare you.tylerw86008 wrote: »But that dude is clearly skinny. He ran all his size off. Cardio does kill gains if its done to long and to much. If you wanna be tiny run on a treadmill all day. If u want to have muscle and be lean moderate cardio with lots of free weights.
Do you really have a tattoo that says "white pride" on your stomach?
yes he does...why does that matter?
IKR, why does it matter? Because...common sense.
It's a public forum with rules for baiting. Not sure how a racist avatar wouldn't be considered baiting at it's highest level...
I'd put money on that not even being his picture. So whomever's picture he stole off the internet has a "white pride" tattoo.
So.... Does that make it better, or worse?0 -
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