Seriously discouraged

Thriceshy

So, I've lost 31 pounds in the past few months. For the past 36 days, I've worked out four-five days a week (at least 40 minutes a day), have cut out ALL meat but omega-3-rich fish, have kept my calories, carbs, and cholesterol under control (as well as my sodium). I've taken all the "right" supplements (sterols and stanols, fish oil, vitamin D, garlic, plus a multi), and even been trying to get 15 minutes of sun a day. My veggie, fruit, and hearty whole grain intake has increased markedly (which is a natural result of decreased meat consumption). I wasn't hoping for a miracle, I was hoping for some sort of improvement in my lipid profile and vitamin D levels. I mean, these are the things you're supposed to do to improve your lipid profile and vitamin D levels, right?

Instead, my triglycerides are UP, my LDL is UP, my vitamin D is DOWN. Yes, I did get my HDL from 33 to 36 (big whoop), but otherwise, nothing good happened here. Even my A1c went from 5.4 to 5.8.

What the hell?

TavistockToad

why have you cut out all meat?

OgahpahBear

There is a tremendous misconception in the nutrition community. 50 years ago a study was made to look as if eating red meats and saturated fats contributed to high cholesterol, heart disease, and other related illnesses. This has been the stance of the ADA and has never actually been proven. They found the seven countries in the world with high heart-related deaths and high saturated fat consumption to find a correlation. Since then, nothing has actually proven that saturated fat consumption causes heart-related illnesses. If you want those LCD numbers to go down, you are going to have to reduce your whole grain consumption and increase your saturated fat consumption. The doctors will only tell you what has been spoon fed to them by the organizations which they are affiliated. Most doctors graduate with their MD with less that EIGHT HOURS of nutrition training. Talk to an informed nutritionist, read up on diet-related illness, and you will fix this problem. Here are some websites that will tell you more with links to great information:
http://www.fathead-movie.com/
http://www.fatburningman.com/

Thriceshy

why have you cut out all meat?

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

semarsh12

How are your thyroid levels?

conniemaxwell5

36 days isn't a long time to change cholesterol and vitamin D levels. It took your body a lifetime to get where you are today, it will take more than 5 weeks to get it healthy again. I had low vitamin D levels and the doctor put me on prescription supplements. It took 6 months to get my levels where they needed to be.

Thriceshy

http://health.usnews.com/health-conditions/heart-health/lowering-ldl-cholesterol

And I found this to be the case--yes, my HDL went up a bit (from 33 to 36), but my LDL also went up--from 130 to 136. I think the thing that's holding me back is the yo-yoing I've done. So, instead of letting myself be dragged down by this, I'm going to continue and see how things look at six months.

As for the "no meat but fish/pescatarian" gig, I FEEL better than I've felt in years. Increased veggies, whole grains, fruits, plus fish? I feel great, my digestion is, for the first time in a decade or more, not giving me grief. And yeah, on special occasions I'll still have a good grass-fed steak or some non-Smithfield ribs, but otherwise, for ME, this is a better way of eating. That my total cholesterol went up is disappointing, but may also be a reflection of 1) my diabetes, 2) the length of time I've been at it, and 3) my current weight. Yes, I've lost a lot of weight, but I still weigh almost 300 lbs. Maybe a decent lipid profile is too much to hope for at this weight.

Kris

TavistockToad

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

you find cows and pigs horrifying?!

Binkie1955

Please read 'Good Calories Bad Calories' by Gary Taubes. After that, particularly Chapter 9 (Cholesterol) you'll have some better insights. there's nothing wrong with meat. more is wrong with grain really. but read the book and research it yourself. You don't have any reason to be discouraged. you're doing well.

Thriceshy

36 days isn't a long time to change cholesterol and vitamin D levels. It took your body a lifetime to get where you are today, it will take more than 5 weeks to get it healthy again. I had low vitamin D levels and the doctor put me on prescription supplements. It took 6 months to get my levels where they needed to be.

Thank you, that's what I'm thinking. I won't take the prescription mega-doses--I have cardiac issues and my levels aren't so low that the mega-dose benefits outweigh the risks in my case. But I have upped my daily from 1000 to 2000 mg, and hopefully I'll see better results at my six month appointment.

Kris

Thriceshy

Please read 'Good Calories Bad Calories' by Gary Taubes. After that, particularly Chapter 9 (Cholesterol) you'll have some better insights. there's nothing wrong with meat. more is wrong with grain really. but read the book and research it yourself. You don't have any reason to be discouraged. you're doing well.

Thank you, I'll have a look.

Kris

byustrongman

why have you cut out all meat?

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

http://examine.com/faq/does-red-meat-cause-cancer.html

KristiCee67

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

you find cows and pigs horrifying?!

Giggle.

Thriceshy

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

you find cows and pigs horrifying?!

I find factory farming and feed lots horrifying.

Kris

Thriceshy

why have you cut out all meat?

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

http://examine.com/faq/does-red-meat-cause-cancer.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/health/research/red-meat-linked-to-cancer-and-heart-disease.html?_r=0

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48613227/ns/health-mens_health/t/way-red-meat-cooked-can-affect-cancer-risk/#.UbCe7EAsnbM

http://preventcancer.aicr.org/site/PageServer?pagename=recommendations_05_red_meat

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/23/health/well-done-red-meat-prostate-cancer

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/14/us-health-redmeat-idUSBRE82C1AT20120314

TavistockToad

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

you find cows and pigs horrifying?!

Giggle.

couldnt resist!

byustrongman

why have you cut out all meat?

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

http://examine.com/faq/does-red-meat-cause-cancer.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/health/research/red-meat-linked-to-cancer-and-heart-disease.html?_r=0

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48613227/ns/health-mens_health/t/way-red-meat-cooked-can-affect-cancer-risk/#.UbCe7EAsnbM

http://preventcancer.aicr.org/site/PageServer?pagename=recommendations_05_red_meat

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/23/health/well-done-red-meat-prostate-cancer

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/14/us-health-redmeat-idUSBRE82C1AT20120314

The page I linked deals with most of those. And all those seem to mix up correlation and causation.

Thriceshy

How are your thyroid levels?

I've always felt they're playing a part, but I've never had a doc agree with me. Let me check, hang on.

Here are my labs, in their entirety:


A/G Ratio

1.2




Albumin, Serum

4.6




Alkaline Phosphatase, Serum

64




ALT (SGPT)

27




AST (SGOT)

28




Bilirubin, Total

0.5




BUN

9




BUN/Creatinine Ratio

10




Calcium, Serum

9.6




Carbon Dioxide, Total

26




Chloride, Serum

102




Creatinine, Serum

0.9




eGFR If Africn Am

88




Globulin, Total

3.7




Glom Filt Rate, Est

76




Glucose, Serum

95




Potassium, Serum

4.3




Protein, Total, Serum

8.3




Sodium, Serum

141



Lipid Panel And Chol/HDL Ratio


Cholesterol, Total

207



HDL Cholesterol

36



LDL Cholesterol Calc

136



T. Chol/HDL Ratio

5.8



Triglycerides

177


VLDL Cholesterol Cal

35




Microalb/Creat Ratio, Randm Ur


Creatinine, Urine

49.7




MIcroalb/Creat Ratio.

3.2




Microalbum.,U,Random

1.6



Hemoglobin A1c

5.8



TSH / Labcorp 004259 / Quest 30163E

TSH

2.56



Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy

25.5

Francl27

It depends a lot on your source of whole grains frankly. A lot of breads for example have a ton of added sugar and whatnot.

Also my doctor told me it takes months for your bloodwork to change.

mockchoc

Bumping because I am interested..

Fozzi43

I love a bit of meat.

brandiuntz

Give it more time. It really does take awhile for your profile to change. My cholesterol is very slowly coming down and I've been on a healthy diet for several years. My vitamin D and iron levels stay borderline normal, even with supplements. Some people don't react as fast to diet changes. But, you are making good choices, so just keep on keepin' on.

ElizabethKalmbach

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3258689/

Anecdotally (in addition to the scholarly article above), when I quit eating processed foods with added hfcs and more than one fruit per day, my LDL dropped by 30 points over 6 months. You have a special case, because of your other conditions, but in general, eating some healthy fats and reducing your sugar intake will be quite good for overall health. Glucose as found in white rice, is an acceptable sugar, but not nearly as sweet as fructose or sucrose.

conniemaxwell5

http://health.usnews.com/health-conditions/heart-health/lowering-ldl-cholesterol

And I found this to be the case--yes, my HDL went up a bit (from 33 to 36), but my LDL also went up--from 130 to 136. I think the thing that's holding me back is the yo-yoing I've done. So, instead of letting myself be dragged down by this, I'm going to continue and see how things look at six months.

As for the "no meat but fish/pescatarian" gig, I FEEL better than I've felt in years. Increased veggies, whole grains, fruits, plus fish? I feel great, my digestion is, for the first time in a decade or more, not giving me grief. And yeah, on special occasions I'll still have a good grass-fed steak or some non-Smithfield ribs, but otherwise, for ME, this is a better way of eating. That my total cholesterol went up is disappointing, but may also be a reflection of 1) my diabetes, 2) the length of time I've been at it, and 3) my current weight. Yes, I've lost a lot of weight, but I still weigh almost 300 lbs. Maybe a decent lipid profile is too much to hope for at this weight.

Kris

Try to not be discouraged. You are losing weight, eating healthy and FEELING better. Keep doing what you're doing and give it time. 6 months is probably a fair amount of time to wait before you have your levels checked again. Good luck!

mockchoc

I love a bit of meat.

*snort* I'm trying to give it up. Husband won't be impressed.

herblackwings39

why have you cut out all meat?

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

With diabetes I worry more about carb levels than fat levels. If you've increased your carbs to compensate for the protein that will have an impact on your blood sugar readings.

BarbieAS

I'm overweight with a BMI of around 35, though it's decreasing, slowly but surely. I recently had bloodwork done as well.

I was also found to have practically shockingly low Vitamin D levels - 9.4. My nurse who gave me the results told me she'd never seen a level so low in her entire career. I was put on a 6-month prescription of a weekly 50,000IU supplement and then told to re-test. Now that summer is upon us, I'm also going to try to force myself to get a little more sun - I have extremely fair skin and so I wear some kind of SPF on all exposed skin year-round, which obviously contributed to that. I need to find a balance there. But, anyway, my doctor told me it can easily take months and months to fix Vitamin D levels - she didn't even expect me to be where she wants me at my 6 month re-test. So, don't get discouraged there.

With regard to cholesterol, my numbers were outstanding, particularly for someone who is technically obese. My HDL was 67, triglycerides were 69, and LDL was 97. Don't get too caught up on LDL - it's important to keep that low, but it's far more important to keep triglycerides low and even more important to keep HDL high. It sounds like you're doing the right things to raise your HDL, but in order to lower triglycerides you need to decrease grains (really, carbs overall, but you don't want to be cutting out vegetables and moderate amounts of fruit). Trust me, I know how counter-intuitive that sounds, but give it a shot. That's how I eat - lots of "healthy" fats like almonds and olive oil, plenty of fruits and veggies, very few grains (of course a little here and there, but many days none and unless it's an extremely special occasion no more than one serving per day), and lots of protein - including saturated fats. It's almost paleo but not quite (and I'm not shooting for that, just to give you something to compare to).

Just think about it. I totally get what you're saying about physically feeling better eating how you are, but just consider it.

PhoenixEve

whole grain intake has increased markedly

I'm guessing this is the problem. Have you been tested for wheat/gluten intolerance? Sometimes it doesn't present as celiac but can still be a metabolic inhibitor (thyroid disrupter). Especially for blood type O. Do you know your blood type? I'm type O and i'm amazed how much my energy levels have improved since i cut out gluten... even my early morning basal body temp has risen! (it was consistently a degree lower than normal for years, even on thyroid meds). Wouldn't hurt to get it checked out and then you would know for sure.

*edit - also of note: celiac can cause impairment of absorption of vitamin D because gluten allergy/intolerance can cause villous atrophy in the intestines.

PLUMSGRL

You might want to give up the fish oil and try Omega-3 Krill Oil (I use one by Natrol).

My levels:

Pre , after 30 days:
Total Chol 219 , 143
HDL 97, 78
LDL 114 , outside reporting range (to low to register)
TC/HDL 2.3 , 1.8 (ideal)
Triglycerides 45, 45

I was only taking one capsule a day, but you can safely take 2 per day.
If you are loosing fat (I didn't say weight), your triglyceride levels will be slightly elevated as the triglyceride leaves the fat cell and enters the blood stream.

jennifershoo

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

you find cows and pigs horrifying?!

I find factory farming and feed lots horrifying.

Kris

Then, eat organic!

jennifershoo

why have you cut out all meat?

Because I find the source of most beef and pork horrifying, I find the fat levels unacceptable for someone who, like me, is diabetic, and I find the carcinogenic qualities of many meats worrisome.

Kris

http://examine.com/faq/does-red-meat-cause-cancer.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/health/research/red-meat-linked-to-cancer-and-heart-disease.html?_r=0

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48613227/ns/health-mens_health/t/way-red-meat-cooked-can-affect-cancer-risk/#.UbCe7EAsnbM

http://preventcancer.aicr.org/site/PageServer?pagename=recommendations_05_red_meat

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/23/health/well-done-red-meat-prostate-cancer

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/14/us-health-redmeat-idUSBRE82C1AT20120314

Non of these sources are reputable peer-reviewed studies.