Running, when to stop?

Christismylife

I tried Higdon's intermediate 10k plan. It was pretty intense. Maybe try only one day a week for your long run instead of having several days a week where you're supposed to run more than a 5k. Or as someone else mentioned, try his beginner 10k plan.

ksuh999

What's your pace?

hill8570

Frankly, doesn't sound like a fueling issue. Have you had someone look at your stride / form (and not on a treadmill -- my treadmill stride is nothing like my pavement stride). The fact that you're not feeling a lot of DOMS the next day, but during the run you're feeling a lot of joint / impact discomfort as the distance progresses sounds like a stride / form issue. I wouldn't push through that sort of thing -- bad form leads to all kinds of interesting injuries.

EDIT: Thinking through it a bit more...the fact that you're feeling this with Vibrams makes it unlikely to be seriously overstriding (which is always my first guess), since your heel will start to hurt like hell if you overstride in a minimalist shoe. Still might be a cadence issue -- if you're getting excessive vertical motion that puts more stress on the joints. Next run might want to check your cadence, especially later in the run -- if it's a lot lower than 180-ish strides per minute, try going to a faster, choppier stride (if you run with music, there are sites that have a "beat" to match specific target cadences).

jgnatca

<---old lady running.
I agree to pay attention and get it looked in to. My physiotherapist has me on all sorts of stretches and strengthening exercises now. He says don't run through joint pain. It will only take you that much longer to recover.

My girlfriend who does half marathons carries gummy bears with her. That's all she needs to refuel mid-run. You could try that. But I suspect it has to do with your form, and allowing your entire body time to adapt to the long runs.

LiftAllThePizzas

hill8570 wrote: »

Frankly, doesn't sound like a fueling issue. Have you had someone look at your stride / form (and not on a treadmill -- my treadmill stride is nothing like my pavement stride). The fact that you're not feeling a lot of DOMS the next day, but during the run you're feeling a lot of joint / impact discomfort as the distance progresses sounds like a stride / form issue. I wouldn't push through that sort of thing -- bad form leads to all kinds of interesting injuries.

EDIT: Thinking through it a bit more...the fact that you're feeling this with Vibrams makes it unlikely to be seriously overstriding (which is always my first guess), since your heel will start to hurt like hell if you overstride in a minimalist shoe. Still might be a cadence issue -- if you're getting excessive vertical motion that puts more stress on the joints. Next run might want to check your cadence, especially later in the run -- if it's a lot lower than 180-ish strides per minute, try going to a faster, choppier stride (if you run with music, there are sites that have a "beat" to match specific target cadences).

Yeah, low cadence = more vertical = bigger impact. When I started last year the first couple of runs my knees were hurting, and did some research, which suggested I was landing with my leg too far forward. I read up about cadence, took video of myself at various speeds and stride lengths and it was extremely enlightening. I immediately started using a metronome to stay at a minimum of 180 (and go up to 190ish depending on the pace of the run) and it completely eliminated the knee thing. Anyway, I am very low to the ground, almost feels like race-walking. But I see how breakdown of form toward the end could be contributing.

What's your pace?

My tempos tend to be around 8-8:30 per mile and the long runs can be up to 10:00ish.

hill8570

LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »

...Anyway, I am very low to the ground, almost feels like race-walking. But I see how breakdown of form toward the end could be contributing.

Perhaps I'm taking you a bit too literally, but race-walking involves significant hip swivel -- not something you want when running. Might want to look up "running tall" and what it implies about form -- "low to the ground" doesn't sound right to me...it has me visualizing excessive knee and hip joint bend at foot strike.

kpw818

1. Agree with all on form. Try to see a PT or even get your form checked at a running shoe store--they will usually do it for free, and it is better than nothing.
2. If the plan is causing pain, slow down. I would run a few week at the 4 mile distance and see how you fare before moving on. It does take the body longer to be accustomed to the pounding.
3. Consider your surfaces. Are you running on mostly concrete? Do you run a loop? Try to mix in some trail or dirt on the runs longer than 3 miles. I plan about half trail for all of my long runs, and it gives a nice break and variety to the distance.
4. Foam roll before and after! I swear by this. If I don't foam roll before a longer run, I will get a niggle somewhere. I recommend this over stretching before runs.
5. Fuel: If you are feeling tired, make sure you are fueled prior to the run. Half a banana is a good start and may help with the tired feeling you are getting on the run. 5 miles doesn't typically require mid-run fuel, but everybody is different, and I know people who have to fuel on any run much over a half hour.

mamafelfleh

The question is: do you run wearing the medals you won in your first 5k?

LiftAllThePizzas

Ok, I ran 5 miles Sunday after a big dinner so I was well fueled. It felt good and I wanted to continue but the track was closing.

Today I went with the goal to do 5 miles of running and then walk/run/crawl/flop my way to 6 miles. I ate 200 calories of twix bars just before. I stopped at 3 miles for only 20 seconds for water and then finished off a 10K without stopping or even slowing down. (I hit 6 miles at just under an hour and ended up with a 9:52 avg pace.)

My guess is it was 90% psychological.

hill8570 wrote: »

LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »

...Anyway, I am very low to the ground, almost feels like race-walking. But I see how breakdown of form toward the end could be contributing.

Perhaps I'm taking you a bit too literally, but race-walking involves significant hip swivel -- not something you want when running. Might want to look up "running tall" and what it implies about form -- "low to the ground" doesn't sound right to me...it has me visualizing excessive knee and hip joint bend at foot strike.

What I meant is, in comparing my stride at old/current cadence, I was in the air longer and bouncing up and down a lot more. I guess "it feels more like I'm cross-country skiing" would be a better description.

Also, I had looked up the walking tall thing, and also found this one (http://balancedrunner.co.uk/dont-run-tall-and-what-you-should-do-instead/) saying the opposite, to try and take a more natural "lazy" position. I had recently been trying to fix my posture, run upright with my gut sucked in, and probably way overdoing it because my shoulders were not happy with that either. These last couple runs I went back to my lazy slouching self and it may or may not have contributed to how great it felt.

callmejessica

Honestly, weight training has improved my running so much. I'm in the opposite boat as you now where my legs feel like they can go forever and don't burn, but I run out of breath beforehand. In addition to mixing up your workouts and runs, do some hill training and make sure you swap out your shoes frequently since you're getting a fair amount of mileage.

loratliff

chivalryder wrote: »

I'd like to add a little note: if you're running regularly, shoes are meant to be replaced once every 6 months (500 miles) or so. It might be time for new shoes.

Possibly more frequently than that... I only get about 300-350 miles out of mine because I'm on concrete all the time.

Honestly, the best cure for heavy legs is more slow running.