Squats--1/2 way down or butt to ground? See pic
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A.....to grass !0
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did OP ever come back?0
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Ya know, tons of people could go ATG with a smith machine. I wonder if the person who wrote that article would recommend it. Not that I would follow recommendations from someone who doesn't understand the most basic aspects of proportions, movement, and balance, but still curious just how much priority they think ATG should have.0
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »Ya know, tons of people could go ATG with a smith machine. I wonder if the person who wrote that article would recommend it. Not that I would follow recommendations from someone who doesn't understand the most basic aspects of proportions, movement, and balance, but still curious just how much priority they think ATG should have.
I would be curious as to how many ATG would do that with say 300# (or insert whatever number is "heavy" for them) on their back...? Or maybe they could....IDK0 -
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I think that's the "looking like a chump" that Dope was referring to.
Sees like those quarter squats would be really hard on the knees.0 -
Find some peer-reviewed studies that discuss EMG studies of the barbell squat. Going to parallel is very good, little gained by going ATG and it's possibly overly stressful on the knees. Also, you will find in those studies that peak muscle activation is actually in this order, Glutes, Calves, Quads. Basically in a correct squat the hamstrings manage the eccentric with the quads providing some resistance. To start the concentric the quads fire but glutes do take over and the calves are very engaged towards the end.0
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »Ya know, tons of people could go ATG with a smith machine. I wonder if the person who wrote that article would recommend it. Not that I would follow recommendations from someone who doesn't understand the most basic aspects of proportions, movement, and balance, but still curious just how much priority they think ATG should have.
I would be curious as to how many ATG would do that with say 300# (or insert whatever number is "heavy" for them) on their back...? Or maybe they could....IDK
I've found that most people who claim they squat ATG... don't.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »Ya know, tons of people could go ATG with a smith machine. I wonder if the person who wrote that article would recommend it. Not that I would follow recommendations from someone who doesn't understand the most basic aspects of proportions, movement, and balance, but still curious just how much priority they think ATG should have.
I would be curious as to how many ATG would do that with say 300# (or insert whatever number is "heavy" for them) on their back...? Or maybe they could....IDK
I've found that most people who claim they squat ATG... don't.
I am pretty sure that when I am "lighter weight squatting" that I am getting low, but not ATG....0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think that's the "looking like a chump" that Dope was referring to.
Sees like those quarter squats would be really hard on the knees.
Please don't take instruction from this video, granted I didn't have the volume on but watching was enough. This guy didn't have his client / assistant even setup to the bar and unrack correctly, fault 1. That angle of squat is not likely even going to engage the hamstring much more than a leg press would, fault 2. Whoever that guy is might have a degree in something but he doesn't know how to apply it himself, he doesn't look like he's ever even touched a barbell. Don't trust a skinny chef, don't trust a skinny strength coach.0 -
@Ilovefastball 99, how tall are you? I am really struggling with form and not pushing my knees out over my feet. I do 100's of body weight squats against a wall to correct it before i get under the bar. My trainer is like a foot shorter than me (literally) and makes it look so freakin easy.
5'7"-5'8"
Like another poster said- sort of depends on your body. When I go all the way down- you know like the way people in third world countries poop in holes- my knees are at my toes. Back is straight. Knees do not cave in. I pause, take that second in the pocket, then engage the glutes and push up. I absolutely love the feeling.
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juliewatkin wrote: »
Your thighs
Ambiguous answer. Your thighs are not rectangles.
Anyway, "parallel" refers to the femurs being parallel to the ground, so the front (top) of your thighs would be a better indicator.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »juliewatkin wrote: »
Your thighs
Ambiguous answer. Your thighs are not rectangles.
Anyway, "parallel" refers to the femurs being parallel to the ground, so the front (top) of your thighs would be a better indicator.
Ok0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Find some peer-reviewed studies that discuss EMG studies of the barbell squat. Going to parallel is very good, little gained by going ATG and it's possibly overly stressful on the knees. Also, you will find in those studies that peak muscle activation is actually in this order, Glutes, Calves, Quads. Basically in a correct squat the hamstrings manage the eccentric with the quads providing some resistance. To start the concentric the quads fire but glutes do take over and the calves are very engaged towards the end.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
We have to think about what we're doing with given muscles though, right, like "drive through the heel" etc0 -
I asked my physiotherapist about this same thing, because I want to build more booty but have issues with knees, and she said pretty much what @DavPul said - even though the hams aren't as tapped below parallel, the other stuff I'm doing (hip thrusts, bridges, cable kickbacks, step ups, etc) more than makes up for it.
Good to know. I've got a bad knee that physically will not move into that position (at least not without a hell of a lot of pain. I'm happy if I can hit parallel on squats.0 -
Well if the only kind that actually counts at all is getting your butt all the way to the ground, then I'll stop bothering and find some other exercise to do for the area. My kneecaps would pop OFF. I'm arthritic and have had surgery in both knees already, barely any cartilage left. They barely tolerate parallel as it is and so that's as far as I go.
I wish there weren't always some article claiming that you have to do EXTREME or go home. Not everyone is 18 years old any more. >:(0 -
juliewatkin wrote: »I go as low as I need to go the get white lights; just breaking parallel. Warm ups tend to be much lower just to get some mobility in.
Yup. This.
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For back squats, I go just past parallel...I will do other things to work my posterior chain. Front squats I go as low as I can go because that's what's going to happen with a heavy clean.0
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Yikes. That might be the worst squat tutorial video I've ever seen.0 -
My advice? Pick a squat type (low bar or high bar) that you can do with good form given your particular anthropomorphy.
Then consistently improve it and add load to it whilst striving to maintain good form.
Changing your squat style based on a single training article when you're not having problems with your existing set-up (or one's that can be fixed with minor tweaks) is nuts.
^ This ^0 -
My advice? Pick a squat type (low bar or high bar) that you can do with good form given your particular anthropomorphy.
Then consistently improve it and add load to it whilst striving to maintain good form.
Changing your squat style based on a single training article when you're not having problems with your existing set-up (or one's that can be fixed with minor tweaks) is nuts.
^ This ^
I agree with this..from experience. I tried transitioning from high bar to low bar because I read you can squat more weight with a low bar. Really big mistake on my part because I wasn't getting to parallel on the low bar and it kind of messed with my knees. I will continue to high bar squat from now on because I can do it with good form to parallel or just below.0 -
MeganMoroz89 wrote: »I do have a question though - I only ever do squats so that my legs form a right angle before going back up. And I've always heard "don't let your knees go past your toes since it's bad for them," - but in OPs photo the knees are clearly sticking out beyond the toes.
So is that not a problem? Or does it just depend on the full movement that you're doing?
Knees going past toes is a common myth, disregard.
Most people would recommend squatting at least to parallel if not lower. When viewed from the side, your hip crease will drop below the top of the knee.
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I do a life of both. I keep a parallel squat for my heavy day and go light doing atg with a thruster. My ultimate aim is to do Olympic lifts so I'm working on the flexibility in my hips but my shoulders are not playing ball.
As long as you bring your booty back and round and you're fully engaged they're both working for you0 -
Karen_libert wrote: »I do a life of both. I keep a parallel squat for my heavy day and go light doing atg with a thruster. My ultimate aim is to do Olympic lifts so I'm working on the flexibility in my hips but my shoulders are not playing ball.
As long as you bring your booty back and round and you're fully engaged they're both working for you
That's a good goal. If your goal is Oly lifting though, you should focus on the Front Squat more than anything.0 -
I asked my physiotherapist about this same thing, because I want to build more booty but have issues with knees, and she said pretty much what @DavPul said - even though the hams aren't as tapped below parallel, the other stuff I'm doing (hip thrusts, bridges, cable kickbacks, step ups, etc) more than makes up for it.
Good to know. I've got a bad knee that physically will not move into that position (at least not without a hell of a lot of pain. I'm happy if I can hit parallel on squats.
I'm on board with this. I think the weighted hip thrusts are helping me a lot, but they are fairly new to my workout.
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What I haven't seen in this discussion is any awareness of the factors that would cause you not to squat so low. I'm thinking specifically of lumbar flexion. Dave Tate, a 1k lb squatter, basically gives the following advice: squat as low as your flexibility will allow you to do safely but avoid lumbar flexion. In other words, if you don't have the flexibility do squat low properly, then squat a bit higher and start stretching your hips.
I don't do the oly squats as much as I should mostly because of an old bicycle racing injury to my elbow prevents me from locking my arms out overhead (hence no rest at the top makes it much less safe). I find a way to work the same muscles in a way that is safe for me.
I can tell you from experience that experience Lumbar flexion with 500+ pounds on your back is neither productive nor fun.0 -
TFaustino67 wrote: »Try that again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmknaFEFcF0
Nominate this video for a stickey! Great info, no wonder no one agrees on these.0 -
A full squat is below parallel by definition, however not everybody has the hip mobility to achieve this. As a general rule I would suggest going as far as your hips will allow, anything else and you will risk injury. You could try to improve hip mobility over time, but I wouldn't let it discourage anyone from adding weight. I've worked on bettering my hip mobility over time, when I reach plateaus and reduce weight I start by using my bettered range to work back up to the plateau weight. I can go lower all the way up the weight range because of focus on improving hip mobility. Even when struggling with hip mobility I have never experienced any issues with working glutes or any other worked muscle groups.0
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Best video on the topic ever!TFaustino67 wrote: »Try that again:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmknaFEFcF0
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Karen_libert wrote: »I do a life of both. I keep a parallel squat for my heavy day and go light doing atg with a thruster. My ultimate aim is to do Olympic lifts so I'm working on the flexibility in my hips but my shoulders are not playing ball.
As long as you bring your booty back and round and you're fully engaged they're both working for you
That's a good goal. If your goal is Oly lifting though, you should focus on the Front Squat more than anything.
they are all front squats at the moment as I have a frozen shoulder and can't get the bar on my back
The other thing that is worth mentioning in relation to atg squats is hip flexibility. I have been practising sitting like a toddler and widening my knees to open up my pelvis. Not the most lady like position!0
http://youtu.be/7BBrBze0ysI
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