How much does diet and meal timing really matter?

cwolfman13

usmcmp wrote: »

Asher_Ethan wrote: »

All my friends that do bikini competitions do the same with meal timing. Everyone on MFP seems to disagree but I don't see many of them competing in bikini competitions...

@Asher_Ethan I don't eat that way and I do bodybuilding competition (meaning my body fat has to be even lower than a bikini competitor). It's the traditional "bro" way of cutting for a show. It's not the only way to do it and it isn't necessarily the most effective way to do it.

I'm genuinely curious and you've always seemed to know your stuff...as I mentioned in my post, I have zero issues getting to and maintaining 12-15% BF...I eat pretty healthfully, but I also like beer and eat desert pretty much every night and like having my pizza nights with my boys every couple weeks, etc...but I find it very difficult, even when I'm counting and being meticulous to get down to 10% or lower if I'm regularly consuming beer and whatnot. I'm very much a CICO guy, but there does seem to be some kind of issue for me in getting down to and particularly maintaining below about 12%.

I've kind of just chalked it up to being 40 and resigned myself to having a relatively flat stomach, but not a six pack...I don't know...what are your thoughts? From a purely math point of view I find it frustrating...

CitrusEscape

azulvioleta6 wrote: »

How sad that Taco Bell and cupcakes seem "normal."

Agree

beachhouse758

I've followed diets under professional supervision twice in my life.
Once for vanity under the care of a nutritionist and once under the care of a great perinatologist for the treatment of gestational diabetes.
Both times I was put on a very strict diet that followed the lines of your friend's diet - only I wasn't allowed rice either time.

Both times I was instructed to eat 5 times a day.

The portions were smaller than if I were to have "three square meals". In other words, I wasn't eating more food, just more often.

My doctor did so so that I could prevent insulin spikes, as the priority was to control the gestational diabetes through diet only (without significant exercise or medication)

Honestly, I didn't like eating 5 meals a day. And sometimes I skipped some of the mid afternoon meals. Since I had to monitor my blood sugar throughout the day, I noticed that whenever I went longer than 3 hours without eating, my insulin would spike.
So I stuck to the diet.
I was able to manage my blood sugar and the diabetes resolved after the birth of my kid - as it often happens with gestational diabetes.

I don't know whether there's a correlation between insulin levels / weight loss / metabolism.
And even then, we all know that correlation does not mean causation. But it is interesting that both the (vanity) nutritionist and the M.D had the same approach.

Regarding the specifics of her diet: I think that those types of confined meal options (having egg whites, chicken breast, sweet potatoes and broccoli every day and repeat the next day) work for *some* people. Those sorts of meal plans seem to be super popular in the body building /fitness industry. But it wouldn't work for me because I would burn out.
I need variety.

So, I eat 5 times a day now. Small meals, but they are varied and they satisfy me.
When I was at my heaviest I'd drink a couple of cups of coffee and nothing else all day and then have a huge dinner.

I am not saying that breaking up my meals (alone) makes me lose weight, but it seems to be one of the factors that contributes to my weight loss.

I think the main problem was that by the end of the day I was soooooo hungry I felt like Godzilla and I'd devour everything on site (twice!) So, not only was I spiking my blood sugar /insulin; I was also making very poor choices.

usmcmp

cwolfman13 wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

Asher_Ethan wrote: »

All my friends that do bikini competitions do the same with meal timing. Everyone on MFP seems to disagree but I don't see many of them competing in bikini competitions...

I don't eat that way and I do bodybuilding competition (meaning my body fat has to be even lower than a bikini competitor). It's the traditional "bro" way of cutting for a show. It's not the only way to do it and it isn't necessarily the most effective way to do it.

I'm genuinely curious and you've always seemed to know your stuff...as I mentioned in my post, I have zero issues getting to and maintaining 12-15% BF...I eat pretty healthfully, but I also like beer and eat desert pretty much every night and like having my pizza nights with my boys every couple weeks, etc...but I find it very difficult, even when I'm counting and being meticulous to get down to 10% or lower if I'm regularly consuming beer and whatnot. I'm very much a CICO guy, but there does seem to be some kind of issue for me in getting down to and particularly maintaining below about 12%.

I've kind of just chalked it up to being 40 and resigned myself to having a relatively flat stomach, but not a six pack...I don't know...what are your thoughts? From a purely math point of view I find it frustrating...

@cwolfman13 There are a lot of factors to that. When you reach a certain point hormones do have an impact. I'm not saying you would have to cut out beer, but it may be an issue of needing to adjust intake again or adjust macros. Some people find that adding in a refeed day is important (lots and lots of carbs with very little fat and adequate protein) to reset leptin levels. Some people need carb cycling (playing slightly with glycogen levels, insulin response, as well as TEF).

I think for most people it comes down to less accuracy or overestimation of TDEE. The TDEE thing could be lower NEAT or adaptive thermogenesis or simply less effort put into workouts. I don't see this being your particular issue, since you don't ever seem in denial of your habits.

cwolfman13

usmcmp wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

Asher_Ethan wrote: »

All my friends that do bikini competitions do the same with meal timing. Everyone on MFP seems to disagree but I don't see many of them competing in bikini competitions...

I don't eat that way and I do bodybuilding competition (meaning my body fat has to be even lower than a bikini competitor). It's the traditional "bro" way of cutting for a show. It's not the only way to do it and it isn't necessarily the most effective way to do it.

I'm genuinely curious and you've always seemed to know your stuff...as I mentioned in my post, I have zero issues getting to and maintaining 12-15% BF...I eat pretty healthfully, but I also like beer and eat desert pretty much every night and like having my pizza nights with my boys every couple weeks, etc...but I find it very difficult, even when I'm counting and being meticulous to get down to 10% or lower if I'm regularly consuming beer and whatnot. I'm very much a CICO guy, but there does seem to be some kind of issue for me in getting down to and particularly maintaining below about 12%.

I've kind of just chalked it up to being 40 and resigned myself to having a relatively flat stomach, but not a six pack...I don't know...what are your thoughts? From a purely math point of view I find it frustrating...

@cwolfman13 There are a lot of factors to that. When you reach a certain point hormones do have an impact. I'm not saying you would have to cut out beer, but it may be an issue of needing to adjust intake again or adjust macros. Some people find that adding in a refeed day is important (lots and lots of carbs with very little fat and adequate protein) to reset leptin levels. Some people need carb cycling (playing slightly with glycogen levels, insulin response, as well as TEF).

I think for most people it comes down to less accuracy or overestimation of TDEE. The TDEE thing could be lower NEAT or adaptive thermogenesis or simply less effort put into workouts. I don't see this being your particular issue, since you don't ever seem in denial of your habits.

@usmcmp Yeah, it's weird...and I'm working on a few things with my coach in this cut I'm in right now...like re-feeds, etc.

Last summer I had gotten down pretty low; you could see some abs, but there was definitely a little layer of fat over them. I wasn't counting at the time due to I had been maintaining so long and re-comping really well...so I dropped beer altogether and was pretty strict on my diet for a few weeks and pop...I had abs...well, for a couple days anyway.

Since I wasn't counting, at the time, it probably was just that bit of calorie reduction and probably some beer bloat as well. I had a tough time maintaining that though...my hormones were definitely kicking in and I pretty much felt like I could eat a house all of the time. I really didn't like the way I felt too much, but it looked good. I also felt kind of week in the weight room.

At any rate, didn't mean to derail this thread, I just think it's an interesting topic and I'm in another cut right now so we shall see where this ends up.

Mr_Knight

Things that may matter for someone squeaking out the tiniest last bit of performance are different from what really matters to people just trying to lose some fat.

Until you're already very fit and pretty lean, things like meal timing are just lost in the noise.

SLLRunner

Asher_Ethan wrote: »

All my friends that do bikini competitions do the same with meal timing. Everyone on MFP seems to disagree but I don't see many of them competing in bikini competitions...

Well, then those doing bikini competitions have similar personal preferences. Meal timing has nothing to do with weight loss, maintenance, or gain. It's preference only.

SLLRunner

beachhouse758 wrote: »

I've followed diets under professional supervision twice in my life.
Once for vanity under the care of a nutritionist and once under the care of a great perinatologist for the treatment of gestational diabetes.
Both times I was put on a very strict diet that followed the lines of your friend's diet - only I wasn't allowed rice either time.

Both times I was instructed to eat 5 times a day.

The portions were smaller than if I were to have "three square meals". In other words, I wasn't eating more food, just more often.

My doctor did so so that I could prevent insulin spikes, as the priority was to control the gestational diabetes through diet only (without significant exercise or medication)

Honestly, I didn't like eating 5 meals a day. And sometimes I skipped some of the mid afternoon meals. Since I had to monitor my blood sugar throughout the day, I noticed that whenever I went longer than 3 hours without eating, my insulin would spike.
So I stuck to the diet.
I was able to manage my blood sugar and the diabetes resolved after the birth of my kid - as it often happens with gestational diabetes.

I don't know whether there's a correlation between insulin levels / weight loss / metabolism.
And even then, we all know that correlation does not mean causation. But it is interesting that both the (vanity) nutritionist and the M.D had the same approach.

Regarding the specifics of her diet: I think that those types of confined meal options (having egg whites, chicken breast, sweet potatoes and broccoli every day and repeat the next day) work for *some* people. Those sorts of meal plans seem to be super popular in the body building /fitness industry. But it wouldn't work for me because I would burn out.
I need variety.

So, I eat 5 times a day now. Small meals, but they are varied and they satisfy me.
When I was at my heaviest I'd drink a couple of cups of coffee and nothing else all day and then have a huge dinner.

I am not saying that breaking up my meals (alone) makes me lose weight, but it seems to be one of the factors that contributes to my weight loss.

I think the main problem was that by the end of the day I was soooooo hungry I felt like Godzilla and I'd devour everything on site (twice!) So, not only was I spiking my blood sugar /insulin; I was also making very poor choices.

Meal timing is important to the individual because it helps them to stick to a calorie deficit. On the weekdays, I eat 5-6 meals a day, all of which are smaller. On weekends, I eat 3 bigger meals and maybe one small snack. I do this for satiety.

pollypocket1021

Asher_Ethan wrote: »

All my friends that do bikini competitions do the same with meal timing. Everyone on MFP seems to disagree but I don't see many of them competing in bikini competitions...

Correlation = causation.

ninerbuff

I'll weigh in on this because I did compete in contests.

Basically it's indoctrinated prep dieting for shows. For the longest time it's never been questioned because it was hard to argue with the results that competitors were achieving.

From my experience, eating more meals more often just helped to keep you from starving because it was a pretty big deficit versus how one eats in the "off season". Imagine going from about 3000-4000 calories a day of bulk up/maintenance eating, to 1800-2000 or even a little less to get to single digit body fat percentages. And it's way less for females. You're weaker, fatigue easier, and sometimes get lethargic from the hard dieting.
The reason for all the "clean" eating was so that you can meet all your nutritional essentials on lower calories. Again, like any weight and fat loss program, calorie deficit is needed whether you're an elite athlete, bikini competitor, average over weight person, etc., and being able to fill yourself up more with more volume of food because of less calories helped to stave of some of the hunger.
Trust when I say that during comp prep and just before carbing up for a show, competitors may be in their most unhealthiest state due to calorie and fat reduction. Immunity level drops too which is why it's not uncommon for many competitors to have to pull out of a comp due to illness.
It's been a long time since I've last competed, but it doesn't sound like much has changed when it comes to prep.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

fatcity66

CitrusEscape wrote: »

azulvioleta6 wrote: »

How sad that Taco Bell and cupcakes seem "normal."

Agree

I knew someone would jump on that term. I guess I shouldn't have used the word "normally." I just meant, she is not as strict with her diet, and eats more fat and sugar, when she is not prepping for a contest. And frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with Taco Bell and cupcakes once in a while, if it fits into your diet. I mean, I personally don't care much for Taco Bell (apparently that is one of her "cheat meals" of choice), but I am certainly not giving up fast food and pastries for the rest of my life.

ahoy_m8

SLLRunner wrote: »

Meal timing is important to the individual because it helps them to stick to a calorie deficit. On the weekdays, I eat 5-6 meals a day, all of which are smaller. On weekends, I eat 3 bigger meals and maybe one small snack. I do this for satiety.

Perhaps meal timing is important to you because it helps you stick to a deficit. Respectfully, what beachside said was in her case, the purpose of meal timing was insulin management. She did not mention that she was trying to stick to a deficit while pregnant.

fatcity66

I do think she is on to something with the egg whites...I had 3 eggs whites today, instead of the whole eggs, exceeded my protein goal, and was still under on fat. That rarely happens.

Capt_Apollo

for the majority of people, weight loss is a basic calorie deficit.

but for people prepping for a competition, and even triathletes like me, meal and nutrient timing and the kind of food you eat can give you the extra edge.