Why do people insist that they need tons of fat for keto!
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mamapeach910 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Also regardless if the Inuits had a keto diet, my point is that there is genetic variability and keto diet isn't necessarily for everyone.
So are you saying some groups evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet and others did not? But you have no idea about who might be in each group?
Why not just est a varied diet and avoid the risk that I am not one descended from those who adapted to tolerate it?
Asking from a point of pure ignorance here, so forgive me...
I have to wonder, given how much of a melting pot of mongrels most of us are as far as ancestry is concerned, how can any of us know we are of a group evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet? Is this trait dominant or recessive when mixed with a group who doesn't respond well to it?
Or am I not thinking about all of this properly?
Or is this whole groups responding to ketogenic diets thing as nonsensical as it sounds?
Again, pleading a position of total ignorance on the matter. Forgive any obvious displays of it in this post.
Well, being ketogenic is our bodies adaptation to starvation. You could theoretically be ketogenic eating at a severe caloric deficit consisting of just honey. The difference with a ketogenic diet is that you're inducing these adaptations with food. They are used to treat neurological disorders where glucose metabolism in the brain is affected. Ketones provide an alternate fuel source for the brain.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Also regardless if the Inuits had a keto diet, my point is that there is genetic variability and keto diet isn't necessarily for everyone.
So are you saying some groups evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet and others did not? But you have no idea about who might be in each group?
Why not just est a varied diet and avoid the risk that I am not one descended from those who adapted to tolerate it?
Asking from a point of pure ignorance here, so forgive me...
I have to wonder, given how much of a melting pot of mongrels most of us are as far as ancestry is concerned, how can any of us know we are of a group evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet? Is this trait dominant or recessive when mixed with a group who doesn't respond well to it?
Or am I not thinking about all of this properly?
Or is this whole groups responding to ketogenic diets thing as nonsensical as it sounds?
Again, pleading a position of total ignorance on the matter. Forgive any obvious displays of it in this post.
Well, being ketogenic is our bodies adaptation to starvation. You could theoretically be ketogenic eating at a severe caloric deficit consisting of just honey. The difference with a ketogenic diet is that you're inducing these adaptations with food. They are used to treat neurological disorders where glucose metabolism in the brain is affected. Ketones provide an alternate fuel source for the brain.
So there are no "groups"?
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I think the best indicator as I said above is to determine how you feel based on your diet.mamapeach910 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Also regardless if the Inuits had a keto diet, my point is that there is genetic variability and keto diet isn't necessarily for everyone.
So are you saying some groups evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet and others did not? But you have no idea about who might be in each group?
Why not just est a varied diet and avoid the risk that I am not one descended from those who adapted to tolerate it?
Asking from a point of pure ignorance here, so forgive me...
I have to wonder, given how much of a melting pot of mongrels most of us are as far as ancestry is concerned, how can any of us know we are of a group evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet? Is this trait dominant or recessive when mixed with a group who doesn't respond well to it?
Or am I not thinking about all of this properly?
Or is this whole groups responding to ketogenic diets thing as nonsensical as it sounds?
Again, pleading a position of total ignorance on the matter. Forgive any obvious displays of it in this post.
Yeah, no.
BTDT with low carbing.
I don't even like meat. Mostly a texture thing and to not share TMI, let's just say I don't digest it well.
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The best indicator is based on how you feel.
So if you "feel" good on a certain way of eating, you would conclude you have descended from people who evolved to tolerate that way of eating? Would you theorize that everyone in your ethnic group has that same tolerance? Or do you think this worked on a smaller level than that?
If I feel good now on my current diet, should I conclude that I am eating in a way my ancestors evolved to tolerate?
Do you think groups like the Weston A. Price Foundation (the organization Mary Eing was associated with) should cease claiming their diet is appropriate for everyone until there is a better way to determine who can actually tolerate their recommendations?
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janejellyroll wrote: »The best indicator is based on how you feel.
So if you "feel" good on a certain way of eating, you would conclude you have descended from people who evolved to tolerate that way of eating? Would you theorize that everyone in your ethnic group has that same tolerance? Or do you think this worked on a smaller level than that?
If I feel good now on my current diet, should I conclude that I am eating in a way my ancestors evolved to tolerate?
Do you think groups like the Weston A. Price Foundation (the organization Mary Eing was associated with) should cease claiming their diet is appropriate for everyone until there is a better way to determine who can actually tolerate their recommendations?
I am still trying to locate the reference, but there were arctic explorers who studied and lived with the Inuit and the explorers could not handle the Inuit diet at all0 -
The best indicator is based on how you feel. I lost most of my weight eating whatever i wanted focusing only on calories, i always felt protein was over rated. I used to focus on that heavy, trying to get all my macros right. That just lead to me stalling out.janejellyroll wrote: »Also regardless if the Inuits had a keto diet, my point is that there is genetic variability and keto diet isn't necessarily for everyone.
So are you saying some groups evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet and others did not? But you have no idea about who might be in each group?
Why not just est a varied diet and avoid the risk that I am not one descended from those who adapted to tolerate it?
I got pretty ill to the point i was in the hospital constantly. This was after i lost 150lbs. I got down to a weight loss of 193lbs with a lot of loss of LBM. After i got better i had to gain some weight back, but it started to get out of hand, i tried to get back on track but i had a lot of cravings. I knew the issue was a carb/sugar addiction. So i started to do this keto, it has helped me.
Damn it! I guess I was adopted.. The whole family has a special love relationship with meat. Every single one except for me. I've never liked it even a child.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »The best indicator is based on how you feel.
So if you "feel" good on a certain way of eating, you would conclude you have descended from people who evolved to tolerate that way of eating? Would you theorize that everyone in your ethnic group has that same tolerance? Or do you think this worked on a smaller level than that?
If I feel good now on my current diet, should I conclude that I am eating in a way my ancestors evolved to tolerate?
Do you think groups like the Weston A. Price Foundation (the organization Mary Eing was associated with) should cease claiming their diet is appropriate for everyone until there is a better way to determine who can actually tolerate their recommendations?
Genetics = "dem feels"?????
I think I've got it now.
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Vegan pescetarian keto mashup?
Life is so painfully short. It really is.
I want ice cream after reading that sadness.0 -
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Vegan pescetarian keto mashup?
Life is so painfully short. It really is.
I want ice cream after reading that sadness.
vegan didn't make sense, vegeterian i meant.
Cream, stevia, cocoa powder, make your own keto ice cream.
No, no, no... ice cream needs sugar for texture. I've done low carb, I've tried all those recipes. I know the sadness that ensues.
I'll stick with Talenti.
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In summary, it appears he's suggesting a mixture of vegan + pescitarian + keto. I had this idea as well a few days before i heard him talk. What i was thinking recently was also a vegan keto diet. But at this point it's just speculation.
I don't understand how you can mix veganism with pescatarian. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Are you talking about a plant-based diet?
Do you think everyone in your ethnic group can eat a ketogenic diet? I feel like you throw out really broad statements and then get really evasive when asked questions. You made some statements about different groups being adapted for different diets and I am trying to determine if this is based in reality or if it is just another theory of yours.
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I am still trying to locate the reference, but there were arctic explorers who studied and lived with the Inuit and the explorers could not handle the Inuit diet at all
Stefansson had problems when eating lean meats, till he figured it out http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox0 -
I am still trying to locate the reference, but there were arctic explorers who studied and lived with the Inuit and the explorers could not handle the Inuit diet at all
Stefansson had problems when eating lean meats, till he figured it out http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox
"On a truly traditional diet, says Draper, recalling his studies in the 1970s, Arctic people had plenty of protein but little carbohydrate, so they often relied on gluconeogenesis. Not only did they have bigger livers to handle the additional work but their urine volumes were also typically larger to get rid of the extra urea"
Sounds like they adapted bigger livers to make glucose, doesn't sound very keto0 -
Sounds like they adapted bigger livers to make glucose, doesn't sound very keto
Keto and gluconeogenesis are happy bedfellows, the brain has a minimum glucose requirement after all.
So it doesn't tell us anything about how keto or not. Draper wroteA subject of frequent speculation concerning the energy metabolism of Eskimos is whether they relied on ketone bodies as a significant source of metabolic fuel. It is difficult to estimate how frequently conditions conducive to ketogenesis prevailed in Eskimo dietary experience, but it seems likely that there were times when the supply of protein was inadequate to meet the amino acid requirements for glucose synthesis as well as for protein synthesis.
The pre-modern eskimo is reported as eating :-
Premodern Arctic Eskimo 10 185 200; 2 66 32 (grams C/F/P and % of cals in same order).
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Also regardless if the Inuits had a keto diet, my point is that there is genetic variability and keto diet isn't necessarily for everyone.
So are you saying some groups evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet and others did not? But you have no idea about who might be in each group?
Why not just est a varied diet and avoid the risk that I am not one descended from those who adapted to tolerate it?
Asking from a point of pure ignorance here, so forgive me...
I have to wonder, given how much of a melting pot of mongrels most of us are as far as ancestry is concerned, how can any of us know we are of a group evolved to respond well to a ketogenic diet? Is this trait dominant or recessive when mixed with a group who doesn't respond well to it?
Or am I not thinking about all of this properly?
Or is this whole groups responding to ketogenic diets thing as nonsensical as it sounds?
Again, pleading a position of total ignorance on the matter. Forgive any obvious displays of it in this post.
Well, being ketogenic is our bodies adaptation to starvation. You could theoretically be ketogenic eating at a severe caloric deficit consisting of just honey. The difference with a ketogenic diet is that you're inducing these adaptations with food. They are used to treat neurological disorders where glucose metabolism in the brain is affected. Ketones provide an alternate fuel source for the brain.
So there are no "groups"?
I have never seen any research citing a genetic predisposition. There is some saying age may factor, that it's easier for someone's body to adapt the younger they are - in the childhood epilepsy studies, children under 10 adapt faster than children 10-20, for example. That seems more like common sense than anything, though.
If anything, there may be a cultural disposition (meaning any aversion to it or success with it is entirely down to how they think about food). I've read posts from people trying to do keto for diabetes in countries like India or Japan, and they struggle finding things they can have, because the things they're trying to avoid aren't just staples, people treat them angrily for trying to avoid them. Watch a tv show like Amazing Race or Survivor, where people react violently to eating something that's normal, everyday food for other people. There doesn't need to be some elaborate reasoning in our DNA for why someone does better eating one thing or another. Some people tell themselves "no bread," their mind has a hissy, and they decide no bread is "too hard." Other people tell themselves "no bread," their mind says, "yeah, whatever, gimme steak."0 -
Exactly LOL, I can see alot of non keto people on here. I cant handle stupidity! What I am saying, in my rant is why on earth people think that LCHF means your fat has to be in the hundreds to be LCHF. I eat 120 protein, and 60 fat, but guess what, my fat is still higher lol. People dont understand basic math, or how few calories they actually need. OOh and I am now down 70 pounds in 3 monthsamusedmonkey wrote: »I think I finally get it! She meant that even if protein and fat were the same in grams it's still keto because the "high fat" means "the majority of the calories are from fat" not that grams of fat have to be outrageously high (although 100 g of fat is still considered really high to me and twice what I would usually eat).
I think she may have had an argument somewhere with someone who insisted the quantity of fat in grams has to be much higher than protein (or something). Context would have helped OP
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A random question out of curiosity: would 120 g of protein take someone out of ketosis? I mean protein has an insulin response too. How much is too much?0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »A random question out of curiosity: would 120 g of protein take someone out of ketosis? I mean protein has an insulin response too. How much is too much?
Depends on the person, I have consumed up to 200g of protein and been in ketosis.
I have also eating roughly 100g of protein and 150g of carbs and still been in ketosis.
That's really interesting. So you go by those special strips people buy to make sure you're in ketosis?
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »A random question out of curiosity: would 120 g of protein take someone out of ketosis? I mean protein has an insulin response too. How much is too much?
Depends on the person, I have consumed up to 200g of protein and been in ketosis.
I have also eating roughly 100g of protein and 150g of carbs and still been in ketosis.
That's really interesting. So you go by those special strips people buy to make sure you're in ketosis?
Those strips are useless in that regard. They only show one of 3 kinds of ketones, and you only register positive on them before you're adapted. Once you're adapted, you don't make excess, so you'll likely register as negative even when you are. Diet blogs are pushing them on newbies as some guaranteed testing method, and all they're really doing is milking them for money with their amazon links.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »A random question out of curiosity: would 120 g of protein take someone out of ketosis? I mean protein has an insulin response too. How much is too much?
Depends on the person, I have consumed up to 200g of protein and been in ketosis.
I have also eating roughly 100g of protein and 150g of carbs and still been in ketosis.
That's really interesting. So you go by those special strips people buy to make sure you're in ketosis?
Those strips are useless in that regard. They only show one of 3 kinds of ketones, and you only register positive on them before you're adapted. Once you're adapted, you don't make excess, so you'll likely register as negative even when you are. Diet blogs are pushing them on newbies as some guaranteed testing method, and all they're really doing is milking them for money with their amazon links.
How do you know you're in ketosis then? A friend of mine decided to go keto, and keeps asking me all these questions since I'm a "diet expert" having lost a lot of weight lol. I keep having to tell him I don't know or to google/read etc.. would be nice to have some answers to help explain to him a few things.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »A random question out of curiosity: would 120 g of protein take someone out of ketosis? I mean protein has an insulin response too. How much is too much?
Depends on the person, I have consumed up to 200g of protein and been in ketosis.
I have also eating roughly 100g of protein and 150g of carbs and still been in ketosis.
That's really interesting. So you go by those special strips people buy to make sure you're in ketosis?
Those strips are useless in that regard. They only show one of 3 kinds of ketones, and you only register positive on them before you're adapted. Once you're adapted, you don't make excess, so you'll likely register as negative even when you are. Diet blogs are pushing them on newbies as some guaranteed testing method, and all they're really doing is milking them for money with their amazon links.
How do you know you're in ketosis then? A friend of mine decided to go keto, and keeps asking me all these questions since I'm a "diet expert" having lost a lot of weight lol. I keep having to tell him I don't know or to google/read etc.. would be nice to have some answers to help explain to him a few things.
Before you're adapted, your breath will taste like nail polish remover, your sweat will smell different, your lips will chap much faster if you're not drinking enough water. But, just in general, if you're getting less than 5% of your individual meals from carbs, you're going to be in ketosis. If there's some reason you absolutely have to know for sure, you can use a blood test, but the only people who have a reason like that are T1 diabetics.
After you're adapted, the visible signs will taper off, except your skin feeling dryer if you don't drink enough water. You'll be able to tell by how you feel in general, more energy, mental clarity, and too much carbs = a day in the bathroom. Where it gets fuzzy is for people who incorporate a lot of cheat meals or cheat days. They're constantly throwing themselves in and out of keto, so they cycle through the worst of it over and over again. Some people never get fully adapted, so they only experience the bad breath and bo over and over, without ever getting to the high energy and faster thinking. Or, worse, they keep bouncing in and out, in addition to not monitoring their water and electrolyte intake, so they're constantly cycling through keto flu, suffering every other week when all they really need to do is drink some chicken broth.0
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