coconut oil before workout
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That isn't claiming what you're claiming.
How is it going to cause weight loss? As the first study i posted, it says that an increase in metabolic rate in men is observed it also helps with appetite suppression.
In the other topic, you said, something along the lines, "you can't defy physics" or something along those lines in terms of thermodynamics. This is your supposed dismantling. Yet you completely ignore the chemistry of how a reaction can consume more energy than it produces.
Let me remind you.
[...snip...]
The rest has nothing to do with your claims.
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Actually, to all the people who say it has no benefit in terms of fat loss, you're incorrect.
In men it increases your metabolic rate to some degree, in both sexes coconut oil helps suppress appetite.
"Human studies have shown that replacing dietary LCT with MCT increases daily energy expenditure from 100 (6) to 669 kJ (7) in men and 138 kJ/d (8) in women. Studies examining the satiating effect of fats of different chain lengths found that energy intake was ∼1070 kJ lower when meals contained MCT than when they contained LCT as the fat source (23). Van Wymelbeke et al. (24) found that intakes were 175–698 kJ lower, depending on the chain saturation of the LCT, at the subsequent meal when MCT were substituted for LCT."
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/3/329.full
For those of you who don't know, MCT is medium chain triglycerides which coconut oil mostly is.
14 days is the longest study ever conducted and the effect appears to be transient, and can't be observed or replicated when long term diets containing high MCT vs LCT are compared. Yeah I won't be inhaling tablespoons of coconut oil anytime soon.
"Several studies have been conducted with oral MCTs as a potential weight management tool. In a double
blind randomized clinical trial with 101 hypertriglyceridemic Chinese men (67) and women (34), researchers
found significant weight loss and decrease in waist circumference in overweight (BMI 24-27) individuals"
http://www.ethorn.com/files/MCT/MCT as a Weight Management Tool.pdf
Some of these are longer than 2 weeks.
It looks to me like reference [30] might be worth a further read since it claims significant body weight reduction in diets featuring 14g of MCT compared to 14g of LCT over a long-ish period. Any idea where I can read this?
I found it.
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/12/2/151.pdf
If I was you i'd try it, for me last night i was a bit hungry, I added 2tbs to hot water to melt it (recommended way of consumption) and drank it. I felt so full i couldn't sleep, felt like i ate 1,200 calories in one meal, it was only 240 calories. Maybe it was a fluke, I am thinking of consuming some right now.
Thanks for finding the link! I'm not that fast a reader but I'm getting through it...
Save your time. From the paper....If the subjects were unable to consume their packaged meal lunch/dinner for any reason, they were asked
to maintain the target intake of energy and total fat by eating food from the menu of a restaurant or fast-food outlet. Moreover, if they were also unable to consume this alternative food because of personal situations, individual directions were given on the basis of a menu provided in advance.
Nobody knows what the subjects actually ate. Nobody knows the composition of the food they did choose to eat, and the instruction to eat "food from the menu of a restaurant of fast-food outlet" means it is *impossible* to reconstruct what anybody ate, even if they accurately self-reported.
On top of that, neither the starting nor ending weights between the two groups are meaningfully different from each other. At the start the difference is 700g, at the end it is 600g. These differences are less than day-to-day variation in individual body weight, which means the differences are not statistically meaningful, especially as the length of the study was 12 weeks.
If we take 4 pound weight loss as a meaningful difference for a 12 week period, that equates to 1/3rd of a pound/week, which is 3500/3 = 1200 calories/week = 170 calories/day. The "results" reported here are less than half of that, meaning that EVEN IF there is a difference, it is on the order of 80 calories/day.
That's not even big enough to cover the intraday variance in an individual's BMR, which is on the order of 4%.
The study is completely and utterly useless, and absolutely positively does not claim what the poster in question claims it claims. If anything, because of the lack of statistically meaningful difference in outcomes over a relatively long period, it supports the *opposite* of what the poster is claiming.
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Actually, to all the people who say it has no benefit in terms of fat loss, you're incorrect.
In men it increases your metabolic rate to some degree, in both sexes coconut oil helps suppress appetite.
"Human studies have shown that replacing dietary LCT with MCT increases daily energy expenditure from 100 (6) to 669 kJ (7) in men and 138 kJ/d (8) in women. Studies examining the satiating effect of fats of different chain lengths found that energy intake was ∼1070 kJ lower when meals contained MCT than when they contained LCT as the fat source (23). Van Wymelbeke et al. (24) found that intakes were 175–698 kJ lower, depending on the chain saturation of the LCT, at the subsequent meal when MCT were substituted for LCT."
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/3/329.full
For those of you who don't know, MCT is medium chain triglycerides which coconut oil mostly is.
14 days is the longest study ever conducted and the effect appears to be transient, and can't be observed or replicated when long term diets containing high MCT vs LCT are compared. Yeah I won't be inhaling tablespoons of coconut oil anytime soon.
"Several studies have been conducted with oral MCTs as a potential weight management tool. In a double
blind randomized clinical trial with 101 hypertriglyceridemic Chinese men (67) and women (34), researchers
found significant weight loss and decrease in waist circumference in overweight (BMI 24-27) individuals"
http://www.ethorn.com/files/MCT/MCT as a Weight Management Tool.pdf
Some of these are longer than 2 weeks.
It looks to me like reference [30] might be worth a further read since it claims significant body weight reduction in diets featuring 14g of MCT compared to 14g of LCT over a long-ish period. Any idea where I can read this?
I found it.
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/12/2/151.pdf
If I was you i'd try it, for me last night i was a bit hungry, I added 2tbs to hot water to melt it (recommended way of consumption) and drank it. I felt so full i couldn't sleep, felt like i ate 1,200 calories in one meal, it was only 240 calories. Maybe it was a fluke, I am thinking of consuming some right now.
Thanks for finding the link! I'm not that fast a reader but I'm getting through it...
Save your time. From the paper....If the subjects were unable to consume their packaged meal lunch/dinner for any reason, they were asked
to maintain the target intake of energy and total fat by eating food from the menu of a restaurant or fast-food outlet. Moreover, if they were also unable to consume this alternative food because of personal situations, individual directions were given on the basis of a menu provided in advance.
Nobody knows what the subjects actually ate. Nobody knows the composition of the food they did choose to eat, and the instruction to eat "food from the menu of a restaurant of fast-food outlet" means it is *impossible* to reconstruct what anybody ate, even if they accurately self-reported.
On top of that, neither the starting nor ending weights between the two groups are meaningfully different from each other. At the start the difference is 700g, at the end it is 600g. These differences are less than day-to-day variation in individual body weight, which means the differences are not statistically meaningful, especially as the length of the study was 12 weeks.
If we take 4 pound weight loss as a meaningful difference for a 12 week period, that equates to 1/3rd of a pound/week, which is 3500/3 = 1200 calories/week = 170 calories/day. The "results" reported here are less than half of that, meaning that EVEN IF there is a difference, it is on the order of 80 calories/day.
That's not even big enough to cover the intraday variance in an individual's BMR, which is on the order of 4%.
The study is completely and utterly useless, and absolutely positively does not claim what the poster in question claims it claims. If anything, because of the lack of statistically meaningful difference in outcomes over a relatively long period, it supports the *opposite* of what the poster is claiming.
Yeah I definitely noticed the self reporting for meals if they were unable to consume their packaged lunch and dinner. They were also asked to eat a certain amount of fruit and veg, which they would have had to report on their own. Their regular reviews and counseling/corrections, if necessary, with the dietician gives me hope, though. I do like the total number of participants and the fact that it was a double blind study, so I'm guessing there wouldn't have been a way to coordinate all the poor food intake reporters in one group and all the shoddy ones in the other... Slightly OT: are other similar studies typically able to control meals in ways that do not involve self reporting? Just curious about what tends to be available. It seems like it would be quite challenging to control everything eaten by a large group of people over, say, six months
I do see your point about the total weight differences being minute. Even if they were visible to the naked eye though, we would still rely on statistical analysis to interpret the result, which this experiment seems to pass with a decent p value. It just doesn't appear to pass the initial sniff test...
Here's some items that I found interesting. In an earlier post, pu_ had mentioned an increase from 100kj to 136 or some such in women, but from 100 to 600+ in men. In the linked study, one group I believe contained 36 men and four women, and the other 39 men and three women. What gives? Since there can be gender differences I think it's important to include a decent number of women in studies like this
Next, The experiment was actually studying the differences between MLCT (medium and long chain) and LCT. Due to MCT not being stable for high temperature cooking, they created their own special oil to see if it would react similarly to theories about MCT when consumed. Even if the results are impressive, they're not studying what people are actually planning to consume, here. We can assume or extrapolate if we like, but nothing's actually been proven
The document actually goes on to say other experimenters didn't find greater weight loss in MCT (in humans) compared to LCT. They explained this by saying those experiments must have contained *too* much Medium Chain Fatty Acids (MCFA), and recommended no more than about 2g per day. How much MCFA can be found in a tablespoon of coconut oil?
For me, I would say the study was an interesting read
I'll go check out the other thread where this link was discussed so I'm not rehashing the same crap0 -
The document actually goes on to say other experimenters didn't find greater weight loss in MCT (in humans) compared to LCT. They explained this by saying those experiments must have contained *too* much Medium Chain Fatty Acids (MCFA), and recommended no more than about 2g per day. How much MCFA can be found in a tablespoon of coconut oil?
Yeah, that was pretty....amusing. Anytime a reported positive outcome requires Goldilocks-ing the input variable, suspicions should be raised.
:drinker:
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Quoting only abstracts when the details of the studies show the flaws in methodology indicates that you haven't bothered to do the homework for yourself ... nevermind for others.0
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iloseityes wrote: »If you're not a big caffeine person, caffeine can help pre-workout to boost things. Your body tends to get used to the effects over time if you're a big caffeine person, so think the benefits are more if you're only an occasional caffeine person. Cycling caffeine could work also, and if you want to explore any benefits of fats like coconut oil, I would try throwing some in the coffee, ala bulletproof coffee, and see if it delivers any benefits over just the straight caffeine.
what is cycling caffeine? I just started drinking espresso 15min before workouts, and it really seems to help endurance/distance. Is there a better way? I do drink a couple cups of coffee throughout the day afterwards.
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2 out of 37, you have 35 more studies to review...
and I posted 2 quotes to studies, why did you only address 1? So the other must be valid then...
But you're the one claiming to be an expert on the coconut oil subject. If you missed the basics in analyzing the couple links provided thus far, we're not going to keep wasting our time reviewing potentially similarly flawed links
Clearly you're sold on the coconut oil subject. If you have the calorie allowance to fit it in your goals, keep using it. It's likely not going to hurt anything and there might even be some nice placebo effect mixed in there for you
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2 out of 37, you have 35 more studies to review...
and I posted 2 quotes to studies, why did you only address 1? So the other must be valid then...
But you're the one claiming to be an expert on the coconut oil subject. If you missed the basics in analyzing the couple links provided thus far, we're not going to keep wasting our time reviewing potentially similarly flawed links
Clearly you're sold on the coconut oil subject. If you have the calorie allowance to fit it in your goals, keep using it. It's likely not going to hurt anything and there might even be some nice placebo effect mixed in there for you
As I said, i consumed 2tbs yesterday when i was a bit hungry. Felt like i ate 1,200 calories. I was so full. I am talking from first hand experience, not speculation, analyzing the data in the report.
People on the MCT lost 30% more cm from their waist and 27% more kg.
Wasn't Mr_Knight saying eskimos weren't in ketosis because of a study was done on canadian eskimos? Well I am not a canadian eskimo so that study is in valid. (my analogy for him pointing out the rat study)
No idea.
Agreed, if drinking coconut oil straight no chaser is working for you, go for it
The experiment I read showed no waist circumference benefit of MCT but rather of a specially created MLCT blend.
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Actually, to all the people who say it has no benefit in terms of fat loss, you're incorrect.
In men it increases your metabolic rate to some degree, in both sexes coconut oil helps suppress appetite.
"Human studies have shown that replacing dietary LCT with MCT increases daily energy expenditure from 100 (6) to 669 kJ (7) in men and 138 kJ/d (8) in women. Studies examining the satiating effect of fats of different chain lengths found that energy intake was ∼1070 kJ lower when meals contained MCT than when they contained LCT as the fat source (23). Van Wymelbeke et al. (24) found that intakes were 175–698 kJ lower, depending on the chain saturation of the LCT, at the subsequent meal when MCT were substituted for LCT."
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/3/329.full
For those of you who don't know, MCT is medium chain triglycerides which coconut oil mostly is.
14 days is the longest study ever conducted and the effect appears to be transient, and can't be observed or replicated when long term diets containing high MCT vs LCT are compared. Yeah I won't be inhaling tablespoons of coconut oil anytime soon.
"Several studies have been conducted with oral MCTs as a potential weight management tool. In a double
blind randomized clinical trial with 101 hypertriglyceridemic Chinese men (67) and women (34), researchers
found significant weight loss and decrease in waist circumference in overweight (BMI 24-27) individuals"
http://www.ethorn.com/files/MCT/MCT as a Weight Management Tool.pdf
Some of these are longer than 2 weeks.
It looks to me like reference [30] might be worth a further read since it claims significant body weight reduction in diets featuring 14g of MCT compared to 14g of LCT over a long-ish period. Any idea where I can read this?
I found it.
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/APJCN/12/2/151.pdf
If I was you i'd try it, for me last night i was a bit hungry, I added 2tbs to hot water to melt it (recommended way of consumption) and drank it. I felt so full i couldn't sleep, felt like i ate 1,200 calories in one meal, it was only 240 calories. Maybe it was a fluke, I am thinking of consuming some right now.
Thanks for finding the link! I'm not that fast a reader but I'm getting through it...
Save your time. From the paper....If the subjects were unable to consume their packaged meal lunch/dinner for any reason, they were asked
to maintain the target intake of energy and total fat by eating food from the menu of a restaurant or fast-food outlet. Moreover, if they were also unable to consume this alternative food because of personal situations, individual directions were given on the basis of a menu provided in advance.
Nobody knows what the subjects actually ate. Nobody knows the composition of the food they did choose to eat, and the instruction to eat "food from the menu of a restaurant of fast-food outlet" means it is *impossible* to reconstruct what anybody ate, even if they accurately self-reported.
On top of that, neither the starting nor ending weights between the two groups are meaningfully different from each other. At the start the difference is 700g, at the end it is 600g. These differences are less than day-to-day variation in individual body weight, which means the differences are not statistically meaningful, especially as the length of the study was 12 weeks.
If we take 4 pound weight loss as a meaningful difference for a 12 week period, that equates to 1/3rd of a pound/week, which is 3500/3 = 1200 calories/week = 170 calories/day. The "results" reported here are less than half of that, meaning that EVEN IF there is a difference, it is on the order of 80 calories/day.
That's not even big enough to cover the intraday variance in an individual's BMR, which is on the order of 4%.
The study is completely and utterly useless, and absolutely positively does not claim what the poster in question claims it claims. If anything, because of the lack of statistically meaningful difference in outcomes over a relatively long period, it supports the *opposite* of what the poster is claiming.
Funny how you look at 1 study from the 37 referenced.
6 weeks, isocaloric...
"Thus the decreased fat deposition in the MCT-fed rats appears to be related to the unique absorption and metabolic pathways followed by MCT."
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/37/1/1.full.pdf
"Consumption of a diet rich in MCTs results in greater loss of AT compared with LCTs, perhaps due to increased energy expenditure and fat oxidation observed with MCT intake. Thus, MCTs may be considered as agents that aid in the prevention of obesity or potentially stimulate weight loss."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12634436
FTA:
"Upper body adipose tissue (AT) decreased to a greater extent (p < 0.05) with functional oil (FctO) compared with olive oil (OL) consumption (-0.67 +/- 0.26 kg and -0.02 +/- 0.19 kg, respectively). "
Wow! A whole pound! in 28 days! Barely statistically significant, and FAR from clinically significant.
"There was a trend toward greater loss of whole-body subcutaneous AT volume (p = 0.087) with FctO compared with OL consumption."
Not statistically significant.
" Average energy expenditure was 0.04 +/- 0.02 kcal/min greater (p < 0.05) on day 2 and 0.03 +/- 0.02 kcal/min (not significant) on day 28 with FctO compared with OL consumption. Similarly, average fat oxidation was greater (p = 0.052) with FctO compared with OL intake on day 2 but not day 28."
So the minute effects disappeared over a relatively short amount of time.... Actually you know what? The original paper I posted.
http://www.ethorn.com/files/MCT/MCT as a Weight Management Tool.pdf
37 references of studies on this subject, not going to do your homework for you.
Translation: Either you haven't read them either, or they don't support your claims.
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I tried it in my coffee and pretty much threw it back up. Now I use it for my sons eczema and lube for the sexy time. That I like.0
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I just take it in the morning for oil pulling...good for getting rid of bacteria in the mouth and do cook and bake with it but that's it (and olive oil too). If I'm going to use a fat to consume, I'd choose natural peanut butter over coconut oil. Sometimes I'll have a tablespoon before bed.0
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Based on what's happened so far, that puts me 2 ahead of you, as you clearly haven't read any of the material at all.
:drinker:
Flinging crap at the wall hoping something will stick isn't helping anybody - please, just stop.
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Honestly here is my view and my reasoning. I am going off the original study i posted.
Based on what's happened so far, that puts me 2 ahead of you, as you clearly haven't read any of the material at all.
:drinker:
Flinging crap at the wall hoping something will stick isn't helping anybody - please, just stop.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/3/329.full
And personally, I don't care if there is a thermogenic effect that helps reduce body fat or not. It's miniscule at best. I am just taking it for the saturated fat content and it "has" helped satiety at times.
Backpedal much?
The thing with coconut oil is MCT(medium change triglycerides), It oxidizes(used for energy) and don't get stored as fat, it takes more energy to oxidize it than what it contains, this increases metabolic rate. And also suppresses appetite.
You seriously need to stop talking about things.
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Many of you have a lot to learn. Here's just a brief start on your journey.
Coconut oil is nature's richest source of healthy medium-chain fatty acids (MCFAs), which your body sends directly to your liver to use as energy. This makes coconut oil a powerful source of instant energy to your body, a function usually served in the diet by simple carbohydrates.
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2013/08/30/fitness-boosting-foods.aspx
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Many of you have a lot to learn. Here's just a brief start on your journey.
Coconut oil is nature's richest source of healthy medium-chain fatty acids (MCFAs), which your body sends directly to your liver to use as energy. This makes coconut oil a powerful source of instant energy to your body, a function usually served in the diet by simple carbohydrates.
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2013/08/30/fitness-boosting-foods.aspx
You can't tell us we have a lot to learn, and then post an article by Mercola who is a known quack in the nutrition and fitness industry.
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html0 -
Many of you have a lot to learn. Here's just a brief start on your journey.
Coconut oil is nature's richest source of healthy medium-chain fatty acids (MCFAs), which your body sends directly to your liver to use as energy. This makes coconut oil a powerful source of instant energy to your body, a function usually served in the diet by simple carbohydrates.
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2013/08/30/fitness-boosting-foods.aspx
Methinks you have a lot to learn about vetting sources.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »iloseityes wrote: »Interesting question, and not sure what improvement it would have. I know you probably want the energy hit pre-workout, and are thinking coconut oil because it's more quickly digested and utilised in the body as its a short chain fatty acid.
Are your workouts suffering from doing them fasted? And also what sort of workouts, LISS, mod/ intense cardio, or resistance training? My personal experience is that by gradually increasing your activity level while fasted, the more I can do over time, at least with LISS like long walks and also just regular activities while fasted.
My resistance training fasted sessions seemed to be a mixed bag, and rather than say they suffered/ improved by being done fasted, I just found they were more inconsistent, and sometimes performance would suffer, yet other times it would remain unaffected. Those fasted resistance training sessions would have been with BCAA's just beforehand also, just to note.
If you're not a big caffeine person, caffeine can help pre-workout to boost things. Your body tends to get used to the effects over time if you're a big caffeine person, so think the benefits are more if you're only an occasional caffeine person. Cycling caffeine could work also, and if you want to explore any benefits of fats like coconut oil, I would try throwing some in the coffee, ala bulletproof coffee, and see if it delivers any benefits over just the straight caffeine.
Also perhaps introduce the fats gradually pre-workout I think, to avoid those aforementioned bathroom dashes should you have overdone the fat, as ingesting a lot of fat at once is a great way to help the bowels shift, lol
So cut long story short, should I use it before workout in the morning? Or use it before meal? I saw other thread saying that use coconut oil help to cut fats faster. When I bought it, the nutritionist told me it's not good to use it on empty stomach and only can take maximum a teaspoon a day, recommended half teaspoon, I want to lose fat fast, so I was thinking use it before workout, so that when I workout, the body can burn fats instead of carbs since I workout on empty stomach. What do you think?
Coconut oil does not magically burn fat.
Yes coconut oil is basically another energy source.
I use it as a source of fats. Some do it to get some ketones into the system quickly.
@tristayee Google on the subject of 'fat adaptive' as it relates to low carb way of eating. There are weeks involved initially typically when moving from mainly burning carbs/glucose for energy to fats/ketones for cellular energy but you have done this before you stated.
Twice daily I take 3 tablespoons of coconut oil eating a Low Carb High Fat diet for pain management. While I have lost weight and maintained that loss for 12 months my main object was pain manage. 30 days after I left sugar and all gains my pain became managed with just diet and still is well managed with diet only 1.5 years later. Coconut may have help stop my 40 years of IBS but I do not know that for sure.
You can expect to take a workout performance hit while you are 'fat adapting'.0
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