The cost of getting lean: Is it really worth the trade-off?
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If we were just going go by some statistics on "success", it usually boils down to something like this:
Once something is announced (say a challenge, new plan or competition) to a group of 100 people, 50% of people that hear about it won't even bother.
About 25% will drop out after initially trying for a week or two.
Another 15% will drop out about 3/4 of the way.
The last 10% will fight it out (some with mediocre effort), but only the top 5% will really qualify for the win.
And that's about how it is with diet, exercise, work and lifestyle too. Mention a new diet or plan, boom half will be on board even if it's a great plan. The rest just follows as above.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »I think I struggle with the statements surrounding the WOMEN 16-19% category (which is where I think I fall into).
In particular - Tradeoffs:
- may struggle in social situations, especially those involving food
- May not have time for social opportunities outside of exercise
- May have to give up other hobbies and interests outside of fitness
And in the WOMEN <16%:
The only listed benefit is - May feel pride at achieving an athletic goal
but the tradeoffs are:
- will have difficulty socializing in most typical situations where food is involved
- may lose out of fun events with family and friends
- big time commitment to measure and weigh and track all foods
- hyper focus on diet and exercise may contribute to disordered eating
- time require for exercise. May crowd out all other pursuits and interests.
MY COMMENTS:
These statements make it seem like in order to be lean, you need to give up your entire life and be just a gym junkie. And it seems like it promotes others into thinking that if you are lean, that MUST be what your life is like.
I think this is alot more to do with personality than it does your physique. I have seen plenty of people on here who are overweight, trying to lose, that stress aout about social situations involving food because it does not fit into their new goals. There are also plenty of people who get a really low body fat% but don't let that rule their life all the time (obviously there is some effort there though)
I am really not trying to troll with this idea, it is a legitimate curiosity I have so please don't get angry: I would be curious to see if there is a correlation and/or higher percentage of very fit/low bf% people who do have OCD type tendancies compared to the average weight populations. I am thinking along the correlation is not causation lines here, more OCD type people are able to accomplish that body type (maybe due to an increased focus and drive alot of other people don't have) so it is being steriotyped that way. Getting that body type does not necessarily cause you to be OCD.
My observation is that the OCD-like behaviour you mention seems to correlate with NOT having an external reason to lose weight. If you're an athlete, you're not losing weight for the sake of a number on the scale (weight-class sports excepted) - you're losing weight to maximize an actual, functional goal you need to improve performance you care about. Eg, you want to do well in a regional triathlon, you bloody well HAVE to drop the excess weight -- but your primary focus isn't weight loss, it's race performance.
Without those real-world goals, it seems the only tangible left is the diary and that damn scale - so yeah, it starts looking OCD-ish because there really isn't anything else to focus on.
This is why I believe that the MFP gospel "you don't have to exercise to lose weight" is usually bad advice. It is technically true, in terms of CICO, but in terms of how humans actually function and self-motivate, everything I've seen has proven to me that, on average, people who have real exercise goals do *much* better at weight management than those who don't.
So I guess I would rephrase your comment as....those who are OCDing over diaries are more likely to fail at weight management than those who OCD over some form of athletic performance.
Does that make any sense?
(I hope it's obvious we're using "OCD" in a colloquial sense here)
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Overall, I think this is good information. But I also think that there are soooo many variables. For instance, did one build a good amount of muscle as a young person? If so, then already they are a step ahead of the person who was a couch potato because their greater lean body mass will increase, at least slightly, their metabolism. I think there is a genetic component. Some people build muscle more easily. I have two adopted sons. Both are active and eat like horses. One came into the world with much greater than average amount of muscle (pediatrician thought he might have cerebral palsy because he had so much muscle tone as an infant. No he is just muscular, and continues to be muscular. He builds muscle out of air! ). The other son is also active, (both have been competitive swimmers for almost 10 years), eats even more than #1, and is a beanpole.
As for me, I think I struggle a bit more (not hugely more, just a bit more) than average because of fitness history. I was a naturally skinny kid, who was not athletic AT ALL except for running a few distance events in track--skinny helped--and thus I had no motivation to build muscle. I didn't have to worry about weight management ( 102 lbs well into my 20s), and because I hated all sports (basically I still do, except I enjoy running), I didn't build any muscle through athletic participation either. So now at 47 I'm wishing I had done differently as a young person. I'm starting out a step behind.
And then there is fat distribution. For me to have a six pack I would likely have to lose down to an almost unhealthy percentage, because I carry almost no fat on my arms and legs and almost all in by mid section. So for me, we are talking about having to build a significant amount of muscle to make that possible without my being too skinny.
Then there is the lifestyle angle. Different folks have different tolerance for the actual amount of time spent working out. At 45 minutes most days, I already feel like most of my recreational time is taken by exercising. As a working mother with active kids, there just isn't much time for leisure activities, and when I started working out, basically it took the place of most of my reading time, and all of pretty much everything else. So for me, the time sacrifice would be too much. Another person might not feel that more than 45 minutes a day is a sacrifice. Again, many factors, including work hours, how much travel time to and from jobs, how much help from your domestic partner (or even whether or not you have a partner), how much time spent in religious activities, family responsibilities for extended family (caring for parents, etc). You get the idea.
As to the social aspect, that also varies from person to person and family to family. In my family, pretty much all celebrations center around food. We do not drink a lot of alcohol, so our indulgences are often desserts, etc. and one of the main things hubby and I do for fun is try out new restaurants. Another family's celebrations might center more on activities, like boating or biking, so again, the perceived sacrifice is different.
So I guess overall, I feel that this is a very balanced article. In order to be lean, most of us will have to work at it. I feel that many of my own frustrations come from exactly this--how much am I willing to give to fitness. How much hunger/deprivation, how much time, how much planning, etc. These are not excuses. These are evaluations that each of us make in our lives as we are prioritizing and decision making. They only become excuses when we want to "have our cake and eat it too". I have certainly been there, and still step back into the mode often.
Articles like this, to me really clarify the whole thought process and goals for me.
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think you missed all the qualifiers in their statements, and they were everywhere. Pretty much everything was prefaced with "may" or "might."I think the article makes some pretty big generalizations. I have been lean and I have been fat. The fat part took no effort. Losing the first 10 pounds was actually more of a struggle than losing the last 10. It took more effort to get started than it did to make the small adjustments to get very lean.
I did take some issue with what they said about the costs of being lean. I think I probably just found it more offensive than others because it suggests that our quality of life is lower and we give up so much just to be lean. They don't take into account that the gym isn't "punishment" or a burden and often the gym is our hobby or main interest. The gym is where I relax and find peace/balance for my life. When it comes to eating I feel more balanced when I meal prep and plan ahead. I don't obsess over being perfect or eating clean, so there is no disordered eating on my end (the assumptions of how we eat is off the wall ridiculous and highly offensive).
I didn't see gym/exercise being painted as punishment. It said that may crowd out other interests/pursuits. So if anything it painted it as an interest or pursuit.
Exactly this. I hate running and find it the most boring chore ever and HATE the times of year when it becomes part of my fitness plan. Others find a two hour run to be the most joyous part of their day. Either way, we both put in the time and whether we consider it punishment is a personal thing. That is time that could be spent doing other things if one wanted. I didn't find that judgmental at all.0 -
Overall, I think this is good information. But I also think that there are soooo many variables. For instance, did one build a good amount of muscle as a young person? If so, then already they are a step ahead of the person who was a couch potato because their greater lean body mass will increase, at least slightly, their metabolism. I think there is a genetic component. Some people build muscle more easily. I have two adopted sons. Both are active and eat like horses. One came into the world with much greater than average amount of muscle (pediatrician thought he might have cerebral palsy because he had so much muscle tone as an infant. No he is just muscular, and continues to be muscular. He builds muscle out of air! ). The other son is also active, (both have been competitive swimmers for almost 10 years), eats even more than #1, and is a beanpole.
As for me, I think I struggle a bit more (not hugely more, just a bit more) than average because of fitness history. I was a naturally skinny kid, who was not athletic AT ALL except for running a few distance events in track--skinny helped--and thus I had no motivation to build muscle. I didn't have to worry about weight management ( 102 lbs well into my 20s), and because I hated all sports (basically I still do, except I enjoy running), I didn't build any muscle through athletic participation either. So now at 47 I'm wishing I had done differently as a young person. I'm starting out a step behind.
And then there is fat distribution. For me to have a six pack I would likely have to lose down to an almost unhealthy percentage, because I carry almost no fat on my arms and legs and almost all in by mid section. So for me, we are talking about having to build a significant amount of muscle to make that possible without my being too skinny.
Then there is the lifestyle angle. Different folks have different tolerance for the actual amount of time spent working out. At 45 minutes most days, I already feel like most of my recreational time is taken by exercising. As a working mother with active kids, there just isn't much time for leisure activities, and when I started working out, basically it took the place of most of my reading time, and all of pretty much everything else. So for me, the time sacrifice would be too much. Another person might not feel that more than 45 minutes a day is a sacrifice. Again, many factors, including work hours, how much travel time to and from jobs, how much help from your domestic partner (or even whether or not you have a partner), how much time spent in religious activities, family responsibilities for extended family (caring for parents, etc). You get the idea.
As to the social aspect, that also varies from person to person and family to family. In my family, pretty much all celebrations center around food. We do not drink a lot of alcohol, so our indulgences are often desserts, etc. and one of the main things hubby and I do for fun is try out new restaurants. Another family's celebrations might center more on activities, like boating or biking, so again, the perceived sacrifice is different.
So I guess overall, I feel that this is a very balanced article. In order to be lean, most of us will have to work at it. I feel that many of my own frustrations come from exactly this--how much am I willing to give to fitness. How much hunger/deprivation, how much time, how much planning, etc. These are not excuses. These are evaluations that each of us make in our lives as we are prioritizing and decision making. They only become excuses when we want to "have our cake and eat it too". I have certainly been there, and still step back into the mode often.
Articles like this, to me really clarify the whole thought process and goals for me.
I think this is a fantastic response (the whole thing!) and really enjoyed reading your perspective!!
In particular, I think a lot of it comes down to what you put in bold.0 -
This is getting a little off topic, maybe, but it's something I've thought for a long time.
To be really accomplished at something, say the top 5% of all people, you have to have both a talent and an affection for that something. You have to love it, and you have to be gifted at it. If you are only 1 of those things, never mind neither of them, you'll work exceptionally hard for relatively less result.
So someone with both the natural love and the natural aptitude, "sacrifice" (in terms of what they have to give up) will be relatively little. Someone with little interest an little natural ability will have to sacrifice a whole lot to make even moderate progress.
I agree with this but I think it's missing one more ingredient. To reach the pinnacle of an endeavor, you're also going to have to a bit obsessed. Or a lot obsessed. I see that with great athletes, scientists, writers, entrepreneurs, etc.0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »I think I struggle with the statements surrounding the WOMEN 16-19% category (which is where I think I fall into).
In particular - Tradeoffs:
- may struggle in social situations, especially those involving food
- May not have time for social opportunities outside of exercise
- May have to give up other hobbies and interests outside of fitness
And in the WOMEN <16%:
The only listed benefit is - May feel pride at achieving an athletic goal
but the tradeoffs are:
- will have difficulty socializing in most typical situations where food is involved
- may lose out of fun events with family and friends
- big time commitment to measure and weigh and track all foods
- hyper focus on diet and exercise may contribute to disordered eating
- time require for exercise. May crowd out all other pursuits and interests.
MY COMMENTS:
These statements make it seem like in order to be lean, you need to give up your entire life and be just a gym junkie. And it seems like it promotes others into thinking that if you are lean, that MUST be what your life is like.
But it's not.
Yes, I have visible abs, and visible muscles, and lower body fat. But I am also an active mom, who eats WELL at family gatherings (and most other times). I enjoy probably way too many processed foods, and eat a fair bit of junk food too. I do NOT spend my life in the gym. Maybe I am the exception to the rule, and maybe I'm blessed with some sort of crazy genetics, but it feels like it's implying to others that my body is the only thing I care about.
I want people to know that, in my case, I am able to be a good mother, and have a healthy relationship with food. I do not exercise 45-60 minutes daily, but I am very active with my kids.
I guess I just don't think it's being balanced enough to those with lower body fats.
I think you're taking it too personal. I clicked on the link fully prepared to hate the article....and then found it refreshingly fair, accurate, and balanced. I agreed with almost every point the author made, especially about how both consumers and the fitness industry try not to shine a bright light on what's really involved in getting to the next level.
I'm trying not to go all psychoanalysis cop, but I think you might be taking the article as some form of personal accusation that you may be sacrificing too much or that you should feel guilty about the NotFitness life opportunities you may be missing. Like it's pointing a finger and saying "you have abs so you must not be having any fun! Instead of all that working out you should be mothering your kids! "
I don't think that's the case at all. Not in the slightest. Many people can find that sweet spot where they balance career, family, and personal pursuits. From what I've seen of you on this site I believe you're one of them. Giving up a slice of pizza isn't giving up on life just like leaving my kids with a sitter while I go to the gym isn't abandoning them.
It's very possible, that I am reacting to this way to personally. It probably didn't hurt that I came across it on FB with one of the mothers of my daughter's friends shaking her head as she posted it, cluck clucking at the lengths of sacrifice that women go to in order to look that way.
True. And to put it into perspective - a lot of people (even now) are unaware of what it actually takes to maintain certain lifestyles or looks. A lot of people are still under the impression (as someone mentioned earlier), that you'd have to sacrifice a lot of time by working out 2-3x a day or going to some extreme like bringing tupperware food everywhere with you (even to a restaurant to eat with friends).
So I can see how you got a bit :huh: at the comments on FB but when you think about it, it's not that surprising. I think we get a little used to thinking it's a lot more common than it is because we are active on MFP (whether on our feed, groups, or the main forums) and those misconceptions tend to get called out right away here.0 -
OP, the timing of your post couldn't be better.
I was thinking just this weekend how the fitness thing is a game of diminishing returns. We have to work harder and harder for smaller and smaller gains. I've begun to ponder: how far do I want to take this and what am I willing to do to get there?
It's all very subjective; the goals, the effort required to achieve them, the point where it begins to feel like a 'sacrifice'.
I don't know that I've answered my own questions and can certainly give no one advice on theirs, but I do feel better knowing that others struggle with them as well.
Thanks for posting!0 -
I'm with you, Mirey. I maintain in the 16-19% range (near the top of that range though) and I don't find any of those things on the chart to be true for me. I'm not really offended by it, I just find it inaccurate. But I also recognize that things like logging intake every day and rarely having a real "blow-out" day affect me a lot less than they affect some.
Eta: I do agree with the general gist that you have to set priorities and decide whether it's worth it for you.0 -
I must have missed the part where she vented about it being easy for her. I did catch the part where she felt like she was being unfairly stereotyped, though.
How is it making excuses? I do the work. I weigh and measure my food and I put in 4-5 days a week lifting. That's the point I'm making. I'm saying some of us do the same work and don't get the same result. The OP is basically complaining about how it's so easy for her but others think it's difficult. I'm saying for me it is difficult for some. That's not an excuse. It's a reality. Your response also points out the big divide on how less-fit and very fit people are viewed. If i vent on how tough it is for me to make progress then I'm lazy or making excuses. If someone very fit vents about, of all things, how easy she has it she gets a pat on the back basically.
I hear ya. All I'm saying, or assuming since I can't really know, is that for some people it probably is more of a sacrifice. I'm curious what someone very fit who has a desk job and/or not a lot of other active time (beyond working out) would say about it. What you have to give up depends on what are you needs are. For every person chanting "I eat all the foods" or some other cute slogan to affirm how much they can eat and not give up there are others who actually do have to give up quite a bit to make progress. It is what it is.MireyGal76 wrote: »I do work for the body I have, I'm not saying I don't. All I am saying is that it's not at the expense of my time (or the quality thereof) with family and friends.
I dunno, kinda feels like you're making excuses or pointing fingers or.....something.
There are very fit people that work sedentary jobs. Just like there are fat day laborers.
"I eat all the foods" doesn't mean the person eats them all day long, every day of the week. Example: Here's my lunch from yesterday.
Monster calorie bomb, but my breakfast and dinner were extremely light.
I don't believe the OP was complaining about how easy it is for her to be fit-because it's not. She works hard as hell for hers.
It's not a sacrifice for some people. It's a sacrifice for ALL people. Just different. Or not different. Some people just don't whine the way I do when they can't eat an entire pizza. Just because someone isn't putting in the same exact effort as you doesn't mean they aren't putting in the same level (or greater) of effort
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My observation is that the OCD-like behaviour you mention seems to correlate with NOT having an external reason to lose weight. If you're an athlete, you're not losing weight for the sake of a number on the scale (weight-class sports excepted) - you're losing weight to maximize an actual, functional goal you need to improve performance you care about. Eg, you want to do well in a regional triathlon, you bloody well HAVE to drop the excess weight -- but your primary focus isn't weight loss, it's race performance.
Without those real-world goals, it seems the only tangible left is the diary and that damn scale - so yeah, it starts looking OCD-ish because there really isn't anything else to focus on.
This is why I believe that the MFP gospel "you don't have to exercise to lose weight" is usually bad advice. It is technically true, in terms of CICO, but in terms of how humans actually function and self-motivate, everything I've seen has proven to me that, on average, people who have real exercise goals do *much* better at weight management than those who don't.
So I guess I would rephrase your comment as....those who are OCDing over diaries are more likely to fail at weight management than those who OCD over some form of athletic performance.
Does that make any sense?
(I hope it's obvious we're using "OCD" in a colloquial sense here)
yes, I get what you are saying. I agree with it too. I think it's important to know that you can lose weight without the exercise so that people who can't or maybe need to lose some before starting that adventure know they can. I have to say in my personal experience, starting to run and reaching for goals with that as well as just weight loss made a huge difference (improvement) in the process for me.
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I think that for the "average Joe/Joanne", this is a great article because it highlights the effort needed to get the results you see on magazine covers. I can also see why lean people might get a little bit huffy reading the points that seem to say that in order to be fit, fitness is all your life will revolve around.
But I believe herein lies the key difference - the article wasn't written for those of you who have already put in the effort (no matter how much effort it actually took), or are just genetically blessed. It was written for people like me, who look at a pictures of Candice Swna-whatsherface or Jennifer Nicole Lee and think "man, I'd like to look like that", without an inkling of an idea how much effort having a body like that actually takes. And for me, the article was very informative and helpful. I would love to look like a fitness model but realistically I know I will probably never be able to put in the work required (the gym scares the hell out of me, so that's my downfall already). Which in turn makes it easier for me to set realistic expectations for my weight loss. I might never look like somebody from Sports Illustrated, but I can damn well fit into my old jeans and maybe even run around the block without getting winded. And for that reason, I personally believe that sharing information like this is important, because in a way it helps to keep people motivated. There's nothing worse than setting yourself an unattainable goal - just cutting out sweets is not going to give you the body of a top model. But if a person is able to evaluate the effort they are willing to put in vs. the gains they can expect then it should be far easier to see small improvements and to work towards the goal.0 -
From my POV (vain, single, non-athlete with some physical limitations and just not enough natural love for the required activity to get to the very very end), it was a very informative article that set up expectations reasonably well - for me, getting to the end definitely would be a sacrifice.
But I hear what @usmcmp and @MireyGal76 are saying. But I think you two really are special, and this kind of article isn't geared to you as an audience. It's more for schlubs like me.
MireyGal76 - just ignore anyone who clucks at you. Whatever that woman's reasons for doing that are, they've got nothing to do with you. I'll guess she's unhappy about something about herself and takes that stance for a kind of defensive comfort. But who cares. You and your kids know what you do for them, and you know what you've achieved.0 -
The opposite view also offends. I am not nearly as lean as I might like ( read my post above as to whether or not I'm willing to do what it takes--I'm not even sure!), but I am definitely slimmer than a lot of women my age. I find it very offensive when they say things like " oh, you don't have to worry about it, you're just slim naturally, I wish I was like you". Often while they are eating mountains of unhealthy food. They should see me when I am sweating through one of my long runs, and they should compare their mountains of food and two or three desserts to my moderate plate of reasonably healthy food. I'd like to eat three desserts, too, but I choose not to, because I want to maintain slimness!
I can only imagine that it would be even more offensive to someone who works harder than I do!0 -
"Doing the work" includes trying things such as lowering your intake if you are not losing at the amount you believe you "should" be (because calculators are just an estimate) and going to see a doctor to ensure that there isn't some underlying condition (for example low testosterone or thyroid problems) preventing you from making the progress that you believe is reasonable to expect.
How is it making excuses? I do the work. I weigh and measure my food and I put in 4-5 days a week lifting. That's the point I'm making. I'm saying some of us do the same work and don't get the same result. The OP is basically complaining about how it's so easy for her but others think it's difficult. I'm saying for me it is difficult for some. That's not an excuse. It's a reality. Your response also points out the big divide on how less-fit and very fit people are viewed. If i vent on how tough it is for me to make progress then I'm lazy or making excuses. If someone very fit vents about, of all things, how easy she has it she gets a pat on the back basically.
I hear ya. All I'm saying, or assuming since I can't really know, is that for some people it probably is more of a sacrifice. I'm curious what someone very fit who has a desk job and/or not a lot of other active time (beyond working out) would say about it. What you have to give up depends on what are you needs are. For every person chanting "I eat all the foods" or some other cute slogan to affirm how much they can eat and not give up there are others who actually do have to give up quite a bit to make progress. It is what it is.MireyGal76 wrote: »I do work for the body I have, I'm not saying I don't. All I am saying is that it's not at the expense of my time (or the quality thereof) with family and friends.
I dunno, kinda feels like you're making excuses or pointing fingers or.....something.
There are very fit people that work sedentary jobs. Just like there are fat day laborers.
"I eat all the foods" doesn't mean the person eats them all day long, every day of the week. Example: Here's my lunch from yesterday.
Monster calorie bomb, but my breakfast and dinner were extremely light.
I don't believe the OP was complaining about how easy it is for her to be fit-because it's not. She works hard as hell for hers.
It's not a sacrifice for some people. It's a sacrifice for ALL people. Just different. Or not different. Some people just don't whine the way I do when they can't eat an entire pizza. Just because someone isn't putting in the same exact effort as you doesn't mean they aren't putting in the same level (or greater) of effort
So, no, unless you've done these things, you haven't done the work.
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MireyGal76 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »I guess I just don't think it's being balanced enough to those with lower body fats.
Full disclosure, not lean now, never been lean, probably won't ever be really lean (shooting for 15ish %). That said, the article makes a lot of generalizations. Some of the points seem generally true but others seem like more of a reach. In the end it comes down to individual circumstances. You say you don't work out 45 minutes a day but are very active. Some days you eat roughly 1000 calories more than me but maintain your six pack (did a diary check). Me? I sit at a desk all day for work. Sure, I lift 4-5 days a week but what does it take to get the scale to inch down at .5-.75lbs a week (at 5'11" 230lbs 28% body fat no less)? 1800 calories a day. As everyone has said to me, your reality is not everyone elses. Count yourself lucky you're in the situation you are. Some of us are really struggling even though it feels like we're working just as hard. For my part I see myself doing the same things others do and getting less of a result and it feels like crap. Sorry you're having such an easy time being fit.
I hear your frustration, and I get that. I'm sorry that it is a struggle for some, and appears to be less of a struggle for others.
I may eat roughly more than 1000 calories than you.. but one of the big things is that I'm at maintenance now, which I figure is somewhere around 2200 cals. (I am 6'1", 165lbs). So when I exercise, because I'm not trying to lose weight (and am actually looking at wanting to gain a little more muscle), I eat back ALL my calories.
I was not complaining (as your point in bold seems to say) that I am having an easy time being fit. My comments were more tailored towards trying to make sure that others know that just because they see someone with visible abs, doesn't mean that they necessarily do all those things that the article says they do. I have too many female acquaintances who seem to think that in order to have abs, I must be sacrificing my children - and that is not the case.
But - I DO go to the park with my kids and we play tag, and badminton, and run around like crazy. I carry both of them around my back and run around the yard (and they're both over 60lbs each). I take them swimming and throw them around in the pool, or swim underwater with them on my back... I play with them very actively. I also have a two storey home with a big yard that I maintain myself, and live in the great white north, without a snowblower - so I shovel (some years a helluva lot). So while I don't hit the gym for hours every day, I am also not sitting on the couch eating bon bons all day long, rubbing my six pack and laughing at all the women doing the 30 day shred.
I do work for the body I have, I'm not saying I don't. All I am saying is that it's not at the expense of my time (or the quality thereof) with family and friends.
Is it really that it is easier for you, or do you just perceive it to be easier?
I had an ahah moment the other day when I got a well deserved "kick in the butt" so to speak from my husband when I was in my pitty party over a class. I felt like I was working hard to do well in it and not getting good results. His response is "well lets really look at this, how hard are you actually working". I am a little embarassed to finish that story....
I guess what I am saying is sometimes people take the hard work and incorperate it and it seems like no big deal to them. Sometimes people see the same process and feel like there is no way they could possibly do that.....maybe its personality/work ethic, maybe its luck of the draw (just easier for you to fit that work in), maybe they are just more inventive with ways of fitting it in (as you describe what I would consider a pretty hefty workout as playing with your kids at the park!), i am sure there are other factors you could think of that I just can't come up with right this second.
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awesomewastaken wrote: »I think that for the "average Joe/Joanne", this is a great article because it highlights the effort needed to get the results you see on magazine covers. I can also see why lean people might get a little bit huffy reading the points that seem to say that in order to be fit, fitness is all your life will revolve around.
But I believe herein lies the key difference - the article wasn't written for those of you who have already put in the effort (no matter how much effort it actually took), or are just genetically blessed. It was written for people like me, who look at a pictures of Candice Swna-whatsherface or Jennifer Nicole Lee and think "man, I'd like to look like that", without an inkling of an idea how much effort having a body like that actually takes. And for me, the article was very informative and helpful. I would love to look like a fitness model but realistically I know I will probably never be able to put in the work required (the gym scares the hell out of me, so that's my downfall already). Which in turn makes it easier for me to set realistic expectations for my weight loss. I might never look like somebody from Sports Illustrated, but I can damn well fit into my old jeans and maybe even run around the block without getting winded. And for that reason, I personally believe that sharing information like this is important, because in a way it helps to keep people motivated. There's nothing worse than setting yourself an unattainable goal - just cutting out sweets is not going to give you the body of a top model. But if a person is able to evaluate the effort they are willing to put in vs. the gains they can expect then it should be far easier to see small improvements and to work towards the goal.
Except the article isn't accurate in regards to the levels of "sacrifice" they put out there. If anything, they are feeding the misconceptions of what it might take to really get down to and maintain 18-25% body fat.0 -
From my POV (vain, single, non-athlete with some physical limitations and just not enough natural love for the required activity to get to the very very end), it was a very informative article that set up expectations reasonably well - for me, getting to the end definitely would be a sacrifice.
But I hear what @usmcmp and @MireyGal76 are saying. But I think you two really are special, and this kind of article isn't geared to you as an audience. It's more for schlubs like me.
MireyGal76 - just ignore anyone who clucks at you. Whatever that woman's reasons for doing that are, they've got nothing to do with you. I'll guess she's unhappy about something about herself and takes that stance for a kind of defensive comfort. But who cares. You and your kids know what you do for them, and you know what you've achieved.
Thank you for your point of view (and for tagging me). Thinking back to when I was first starting out I had a variety of misconceptions about losing weight and I did not feel the way I do now about logging food and exercise. I think the article would have outlined things a lot better for me at that point, but I also would have said that the things it took to get lean were not possible.
Over time my habits changed and the possibility of being lean or getting leaner were more realistic. My habits came more in line with what it takes to be lean. There would be far more sacrifices to be made if I had the same mentality and habits now as I did when I first started. Not everyone will build up the habits and it is okay to say that the price of a lean body is not worth it.0 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »I guess I just don't think it's being balanced enough to those with lower body fats.
Full disclosure, not lean now, never been lean, probably won't ever be really lean (shooting for 15ish %). That said, the article makes a lot of generalizations. Some of the points seem generally true but others seem like more of a reach. In the end it comes down to individual circumstances. You say you don't work out 45 minutes a day but are very active. Some days you eat roughly 1000 calories more than me but maintain your six pack (did a diary check). Me? I sit at a desk all day for work. Sure, I lift 4-5 days a week but what does it take to get the scale to inch down at .5-.75lbs a week (at 5'11" 230lbs 28% body fat no less)? 1800 calories a day. As everyone has said to me, your reality is not everyone elses. Count yourself lucky you're in the situation you are. Some of us are really struggling even though it feels like we're working just as hard. For my part I see myself doing the same things others do and getting less of a result and it feels like crap. Sorry you're having such an easy time being fit.
I hear your frustration, and I get that. I'm sorry that it is a struggle for some, and appears to be less of a struggle for others.
I may eat roughly more than 1000 calories than you.. but one of the big things is that I'm at maintenance now, which I figure is somewhere around 2200 cals. (I am 6'1", 165lbs). So when I exercise, because I'm not trying to lose weight (and am actually looking at wanting to gain a little more muscle), I eat back ALL my calories.
I was not complaining (as your point in bold seems to say) that I am having an easy time being fit. My comments were more tailored towards trying to make sure that others know that just because they see someone with visible abs, doesn't mean that they necessarily do all those things that the article says they do. I have too many female acquaintances who seem to think that in order to have abs, I must be sacrificing my children - and that is not the case.
But - I DO go to the park with my kids and we play tag, and badminton, and run around like crazy. I carry both of them around my back and run around the yard (and they're both over 60lbs each). I take them swimming and throw them around in the pool, or swim underwater with them on my back... I play with them very actively. I also have a two storey home with a big yard that I maintain myself, and live in the great white north, without a snowblower - so I shovel (some years a helluva lot). So while I don't hit the gym for hours every day, I am also not sitting on the couch eating bon bons all day long, rubbing my six pack and laughing at all the women doing the 30 day shred.
I do work for the body I have, I'm not saying I don't. All I am saying is that it's not at the expense of my time (or the quality thereof) with family and friends.
Is it really that it is easier for you, or do you just perceive it to be easier?
I had an ahah moment the other day when I got a well deserved "kick in the butt" so to speak from my husband when I was in my pitty party over a class. I felt like I was working hard to do well in it and not getting good results. His response is "well lets really look at this, how hard are you actually working". I am a little embarassed to finish that story....
I guess what I am saying is sometimes people take the hard work and incorperate it and it seems like no big deal to them. Sometimes people see the same process and feel like there is no way they could possibly do that.....maybe its personality/work ethic, maybe its luck of the draw (just easier for you to fit that work in), maybe they are just more inventive with ways of fitting it in (as you describe what I would consider a pretty hefty workout as playing with your kids at the park!), i am sure there are other factors you could think of that I just can't come up with right this second.
I don't know if it is "easier" for me. I really don't. I guess it's hard for anyone to say whether it is or not, because they aren't in my shoes.
Some days I do better than others. I rarely have much opportunity to sit down after I'm done work, so I guess that makes up for my sedentary work life. I am active, I fit in pushups and chinups where I can. I try to eat as healthy as I can, given my lifestyle - and yes, I eat a lot of processed foods because I don't have a lot of free time for cooking (a sacrifice I guess I make for other stuff).
When I do workout, I try to push as hard as I can. When I play, I try to play hard. I've always been active, and pretty self sufficient. It's the way my life is. Some days I am overwhelmed by the amount of work it takes to raise the kids, work 40 - 50 hours a week, maintain a home AND find time to exercise. Sometimes my exercise is in the form of raising the kids. I try to fit activity in whereever I can, and my activity is often using my kids as my workout equipment. (They're 7 and 9, and I still carry them around - for fun.)
I have a gym in my basement, so I have done a workout at midnight, even 1am. I have a heavy bag that I use to box out stress and frustration. I have a treadmill to manage a run when the kids are sleeping. I do my pushups before bed, my chin ups often then too, or when my kids are playing nicely (which seems to be rare these days). My life revolves around kids and work, and I do what I can.
Is it "EASY", no I don't think I'd say it is easy. But my life seems to fit my body, or maybe my body reflects my life?0 -
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Isn't there a little talking out of both sides of the mouth going on then? You hear it constantly preached that all you need to lose weight is a calorie deficit. OK, so getting a six pack is easy? Just cut your calories and lose weight until you get to whatever body fat does that. "Oh no no no. There's more to it." The six pack person will say. "Blah blah blah body holds on to vital stores, discipline, etc etc, other stuff that makes it sound very special." Sooooooo which is it? Is it no big deal or is it a special accomplishment that takes a little bit of extra dedication compared to maybe just having a flat stomach vs being lean? Go.PikaKnight wrote: »awesomewastaken wrote: »I think that for the "average Joe/Joanne", this is a great article because it highlights the effort needed to get the results you see on magazine covers. I can also see why lean people might get a little bit huffy reading the points that seem to say that in order to be fit, fitness is all your life will revolve around.
But I believe herein lies the key difference - the article wasn't written for those of you who have already put in the effort (no matter how much effort it actually took), or are just genetically blessed. It was written for people like me, who look at a pictures of Candice Swna-whatsherface or Jennifer Nicole Lee and think "man, I'd like to look like that", without an inkling of an idea how much effort having a body like that actually takes. And for me, the article was very informative and helpful. I would love to look like a fitness model but realistically I know I will probably never be able to put in the work required (the gym scares the hell out of me, so that's my downfall already). Which in turn makes it easier for me to set realistic expectations for my weight loss. I might never look like somebody from Sports Illustrated, but I can damn well fit into my old jeans and maybe even run around the block without getting winded. And for that reason, I personally believe that sharing information like this is important, because in a way it helps to keep people motivated. There's nothing worse than setting yourself an unattainable goal - just cutting out sweets is not going to give you the body of a top model. But if a person is able to evaluate the effort they are willing to put in vs. the gains they can expect then it should be far easier to see small improvements and to work towards the goal.
Except the article isn't accurate in regards to the levels of "sacrifice" they put out there. If anything, they are feeding the misconceptions of what it might take to really get down to and maintain 18-25% body fat.
It depends on which side of things you find yourself looking on. You just sit here and whine about your personal problems (don't PM me again, I won't reply). You have been given quality advice you aren't following.
Initially you just need a calorie deficit. As time goes on you have to tweak things slightly to fine tune it. Hormones do play a factor if you lose a lot of weight (especially quickly). You may find your macros don't work for you anymore when you reach a certain point. You can call it extra dedication or sacrifice or doing special stuff. It's small adjustments in what you are already doing that make things work a bit better.0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »I guess I just don't think it's being balanced enough to those with lower body fats.
Full disclosure, not lean now, never been lean, probably won't ever be really lean (shooting for 15ish %). That said, the article makes a lot of generalizations. Some of the points seem generally true but others seem like more of a reach. In the end it comes down to individual circumstances. You say you don't work out 45 minutes a day but are very active. Some days you eat roughly 1000 calories more than me but maintain your six pack (did a diary check). Me? I sit at a desk all day for work. Sure, I lift 4-5 days a week but what does it take to get the scale to inch down at .5-.75lbs a week (at 5'11" 230lbs 28% body fat no less)? 1800 calories a day. As everyone has said to me, your reality is not everyone elses. Count yourself lucky you're in the situation you are. Some of us are really struggling even though it feels like we're working just as hard. For my part I see myself doing the same things others do and getting less of a result and it feels like crap. Sorry you're having such an easy time being fit.
I hear your frustration, and I get that. I'm sorry that it is a struggle for some, and appears to be less of a struggle for others.
I may eat roughly more than 1000 calories than you.. but one of the big things is that I'm at maintenance now, which I figure is somewhere around 2200 cals. (I am 6'1", 165lbs). So when I exercise, because I'm not trying to lose weight (and am actually looking at wanting to gain a little more muscle), I eat back ALL my calories.
I was not complaining (as your point in bold seems to say) that I am having an easy time being fit. My comments were more tailored towards trying to make sure that others know that just because they see someone with visible abs, doesn't mean that they necessarily do all those things that the article says they do. I have too many female acquaintances who seem to think that in order to have abs, I must be sacrificing my children - and that is not the case.
But - I DO go to the park with my kids and we play tag, and badminton, and run around like crazy. I carry both of them around my back and run around the yard (and they're both over 60lbs each). I take them swimming and throw them around in the pool, or swim underwater with them on my back... I play with them very actively. I also have a two storey home with a big yard that I maintain myself, and live in the great white north, without a snowblower - so I shovel (some years a helluva lot). So while I don't hit the gym for hours every day, I am also not sitting on the couch eating bon bons all day long, rubbing my six pack and laughing at all the women doing the 30 day shred.
I do work for the body I have, I'm not saying I don't. All I am saying is that it's not at the expense of my time (or the quality thereof) with family and friends.
Is it really that it is easier for you, or do you just perceive it to be easier?
I had an ahah moment the other day when I got a well deserved "kick in the butt" so to speak from my husband when I was in my pitty party over a class. I felt like I was working hard to do well in it and not getting good results. His response is "well lets really look at this, how hard are you actually working". I am a little embarassed to finish that story....
I guess what I am saying is sometimes people take the hard work and incorperate it and it seems like no big deal to them. Sometimes people see the same process and feel like there is no way they could possibly do that.....maybe its personality/work ethic, maybe its luck of the draw (just easier for you to fit that work in), maybe they are just more inventive with ways of fitting it in (as you describe what I would consider a pretty hefty workout as playing with your kids at the park!), i am sure there are other factors you could think of that I just can't come up with right this second.
I don't know if it is "easier" for me. I really don't. I guess it's hard for anyone to say whether it is or not, because they aren't in my shoes.
Some days I do better than others. I rarely have much opportunity to sit down after I'm done work, so I guess that makes up for my sedentary work life. I am active, I fit in pushups and chinups where I can. I try to eat as healthy as I can, given my lifestyle - and yes, I eat a lot of processed foods because I don't have a lot of free time for cooking (a sacrifice I guess I make for other stuff).
When I do workout, I try to push as hard as I can. When I play, I try to play hard. I've always been active, and pretty self sufficient. It's the way my life is. Some days I am overwhelmed by the amount of work it takes to raise the kids, work 40 - 50 hours a week, maintain a home AND find time to exercise. Sometimes my exercise is in the form of raising the kids. I try to fit activity in whereever I can, and my activity is often using my kids as my workout equipment. (They're 7 and 9, and I still carry them around - for fun.)
I have a gym in my basement, so I have done a workout at midnight, even 1am. I have a heavy bag that I use to box out stress and frustration. I have a treadmill to manage a run when the kids are sleeping. I do my pushups before bed, my chin ups often then too, or when my kids are playing nicely (which seems to be rare these days). My life revolves around kids and work, and I do what I can.
Is it "EASY", no I don't think I'd say it is easy. But my life seems to fit my body, or maybe my body reflects my life?
YOU DON'T EAT CLEANNNNN GASPPPP, just kidding
To ME it does sound like you put in alot of work, but you have a pretty laid back happy go lucky personality so it just kinda no big deal to you. Which is awesome for you!
If some people can make mountains out of molehills who is to say others can't make molehills out of mountains?
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Isn't there a little talking out of both sides of the mouth going on then? You hear it constantly preached that all you need to lose weight is a calorie deficit. OK, so getting a six pack is easy? Just cut your calories and lose weight until you get to whatever body fat does that. "Oh no no no. There's more to it." The six pack person will say. "Blah blah blah body holds on to vital stores, discipline, etc etc, other stuff that makes it sound very special." Sooooooo which is it? Is it no big deal or is it a special accomplishment that takes a little bit of extra dedication compared to maybe just having a flat stomach vs being lean? Go.PikaKnight wrote: »awesomewastaken wrote: »I think that for the "average Joe/Joanne", this is a great article because it highlights the effort needed to get the results you see on magazine covers. I can also see why lean people might get a little bit huffy reading the points that seem to say that in order to be fit, fitness is all your life will revolve around.
But I believe herein lies the key difference - the article wasn't written for those of you who have already put in the effort (no matter how much effort it actually took), or are just genetically blessed. It was written for people like me, who look at a pictures of Candice Swna-whatsherface or Jennifer Nicole Lee and think "man, I'd like to look like that", without an inkling of an idea how much effort having a body like that actually takes. And for me, the article was very informative and helpful. I would love to look like a fitness model but realistically I know I will probably never be able to put in the work required (the gym scares the hell out of me, so that's my downfall already). Which in turn makes it easier for me to set realistic expectations for my weight loss. I might never look like somebody from Sports Illustrated, but I can damn well fit into my old jeans and maybe even run around the block without getting winded. And for that reason, I personally believe that sharing information like this is important, because in a way it helps to keep people motivated. There's nothing worse than setting yourself an unattainable goal - just cutting out sweets is not going to give you the body of a top model. But if a person is able to evaluate the effort they are willing to put in vs. the gains they can expect then it should be far easier to see small improvements and to work towards the goal.
Except the article isn't accurate in regards to the levels of "sacrifice" they put out there. If anything, they are feeding the misconceptions of what it might take to really get down to and maintain 18-25% body fat.
But this isn't about 6 packs specifically, especially since having visible abs can very depending on the person. This is about body fat %, which doesn't have to be as hard or extreme as that article makes it to be (speaking about getting within that 18-25% range, that is).
Even the items mentioned at the below 16% (for women) is very misleading. I mean really. "Will have difficulty socializing in most typical situations where food is involved" :huh:0 -
that was my point...the article makes it sound like you have to give up living to have it....when not everyone feels that way or does.LolBroScience wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »http://www.precisionnutrition.com/cost-of-getting-lean?
I read the above article, and found that (in general) it irritated me. I figured I'd post it here to get some dialogue going.
I think that there is some good stuff in here, but I also think that there's some really inaccurate info relationing to what a lifestyle needs to be like for people who want to be leaner.
Thoughts? I'd love to hear what people think from all areas of the weight loss / body fat spectrum.
I agree with you to a point. I watch people here put in a lot of effort...and get lean but I also watch people here and irl put in medium effort and get lean and stay lean. THis article makes it sound like it's a full time job when it's not for all...
some people put in some effort and get lean (you for example) and it doesn't seem that hard for you from the outside looking in..
Others like me put in medium effort and we start to get lean then it requires max effort and we don't want to...
lifestyle choices don't have to be impacted as much as the article insinuated tho...my sister is very lean and can get a six pack with what I call medium effort and she still has lots of fun with friends, family etc.
There is a pretty wide scale difference between maintaining low single digits and low teens though (in men). Same goes for women, although obviously higher on the bf side of things.
Definitely and there's also going to be a pretty hefty variance from person to person in terms of how you feel maintaining a given level of leanness.
I mean I use my sister as an example, she is lean. But works a full time job, is a mom, wife, has an active social life, lots of friends, goes tonnes with her boy still exercises but doesn't live in the gym and isn't all that worried about what goes in all the time...ie has a few drinks when she wants and AMG eats chips....
and doesn't give up living to be lean....0 -
Isn't there a little talking out of both sides of the mouth going on then? You hear it constantly preached that all you need to lose weight is a calorie deficit. OK, so getting a six pack is easy? Just cut your calories and lose weight until you get to whatever body fat does that. "Oh no no no. There's more to it." The six pack person will say. "Blah blah blah body holds on to vital stores, discipline, etc etc, other stuff that makes it sound very special." Sooooooo which is it? Is it no big deal or is it a special accomplishment that takes a little bit of extra dedication compared to maybe just having a flat stomach vs being lean? Go.PikaKnight wrote: »awesomewastaken wrote: »I think that for the "average Joe/Joanne", this is a great article because it highlights the effort needed to get the results you see on magazine covers. I can also see why lean people might get a little bit huffy reading the points that seem to say that in order to be fit, fitness is all your life will revolve around.
But I believe herein lies the key difference - the article wasn't written for those of you who have already put in the effort (no matter how much effort it actually took), or are just genetically blessed. It was written for people like me, who look at a pictures of Candice Swna-whatsherface or Jennifer Nicole Lee and think "man, I'd like to look like that", without an inkling of an idea how much effort having a body like that actually takes. And for me, the article was very informative and helpful. I would love to look like a fitness model but realistically I know I will probably never be able to put in the work required (the gym scares the hell out of me, so that's my downfall already). Which in turn makes it easier for me to set realistic expectations for my weight loss. I might never look like somebody from Sports Illustrated, but I can damn well fit into my old jeans and maybe even run around the block without getting winded. And for that reason, I personally believe that sharing information like this is important, because in a way it helps to keep people motivated. There's nothing worse than setting yourself an unattainable goal - just cutting out sweets is not going to give you the body of a top model. But if a person is able to evaluate the effort they are willing to put in vs. the gains they can expect then it should be far easier to see small improvements and to work towards the goal.
Except the article isn't accurate in regards to the levels of "sacrifice" they put out there. If anything, they are feeding the misconceptions of what it might take to really get down to and maintain 18-25% body fat.
EDIT: And if it is more than just "eat at a deficit" than could you specifically list what needs to be done beyond that.
For ME it's somewhere between those two. Harder than no big deal, but not such a big deal that I have no hobbies or social life outside of fitness.
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So.
I think the article is not geared for people like USMCOMP- or Mirey- or LOLBRO- or Sidesteel.
It's geared for other people who are just getting started and they have absolutely no clue about what it takes to get to a certain image.
it's a paint brush- and by paintbrush I mean like one of those industrial sized roller ones- big broad strokes. (insert dirty joke)
Secondly- I would say what is a sacrifice to one person- is just life to another. People think I sacrifice my time to go to the gym- it's not a sacrifice- I love doing it- it's part of who I am.
Batch cooking- same thing. not a sacrifice.
Making my own costumes? not a sacrifice.
To other people- these would torture.- big sacrifices to them.
it's not a judgement- but a reality- we are each willing to do certain things- but once you've been doing it for so long- it's not a sacrifice it just is what it is. I do more with less sleep - because I have to- and getting more sleep doesn't help- so why bother- I'd rather just continue to function as is and get the *kitten* done that I need to.
Thirdly- this is semi tied with my second point- how long you've been doing it and where your body is makes a difference- not everyone is a top Olympic level athlete- some people "aren't athletic" because they never have been- but if they start doing said things- they can BECOME more athletic- but it takes time to retrain your body- people who had any sort of natural athletic tendency's probably have been doing athletic things- we had a mini head start- but USMCOMP is proof- she completely changed her body- check out Nerd Fitness- the number of people who changed their bodies- without having "been naturally athletic"
I think it's a self serving concept- if you are you do- if you aren't you said you aren't so you don't- but I firmly believe you can change that- it just takes some work.0 -
Isn't there a little talking out of both sides of the mouth going on then? You hear it constantly preached that all you need to lose weight is a calorie deficit. OK, so getting a six pack is easy? Just cut your calories and lose weight until you get to whatever body fat does that. "Oh no no no. There's more to it." The six pack person will say. "Blah blah blah body holds on to vital stores, discipline, etc etc, other stuff that makes it sound very special." Sooooooo which is it? Is it no big deal or is it a special accomplishment that takes a little bit of extra dedication compared to maybe just having a flat stomach vs being lean? Go.PikaKnight wrote: »awesomewastaken wrote: »I think that for the "average Joe/Joanne", this is a great article because it highlights the effort needed to get the results you see on magazine covers. I can also see why lean people might get a little bit huffy reading the points that seem to say that in order to be fit, fitness is all your life will revolve around.
But I believe herein lies the key difference - the article wasn't written for those of you who have already put in the effort (no matter how much effort it actually took), or are just genetically blessed. It was written for people like me, who look at a pictures of Candice Swna-whatsherface or Jennifer Nicole Lee and think "man, I'd like to look like that", without an inkling of an idea how much effort having a body like that actually takes. And for me, the article was very informative and helpful. I would love to look like a fitness model but realistically I know I will probably never be able to put in the work required (the gym scares the hell out of me, so that's my downfall already). Which in turn makes it easier for me to set realistic expectations for my weight loss. I might never look like somebody from Sports Illustrated, but I can damn well fit into my old jeans and maybe even run around the block without getting winded. And for that reason, I personally believe that sharing information like this is important, because in a way it helps to keep people motivated. There's nothing worse than setting yourself an unattainable goal - just cutting out sweets is not going to give you the body of a top model. But if a person is able to evaluate the effort they are willing to put in vs. the gains they can expect then it should be far easier to see small improvements and to work towards the goal.
Except the article isn't accurate in regards to the levels of "sacrifice" they put out there. If anything, they are feeding the misconceptions of what it might take to really get down to and maintain 18-25% body fat.
I will share my story - and try to keep it brief.
I never had more than 30 lbs to lose. I was active through my whole life and after getting married, ate richer foods and moved less. I dabbled in gym memberships, but was never 'ripped'. I had two babies.
I started running after the second. My marriage was falling apart and I used that running time to sort things out. I didn't know calories or logging, and used my 3 mile run as an excuse to eat an entire bag of doritos with sour cream and salsa. Didn't see any differences.
Marriage completely dissolved and I was an emotional wreck. I started boxing one night a week. The craziest workout I'd ever experienced (and one hour logged about 900 calorie burn on the HRM). Saw some weight loss, but still didn't pay attention to cals. Then met MFP. Over the next year, I continued boxing, added in some lifting from time to time, and watched calories. That's when I started seeing abs.
For me, abs came once I started realizing how many freaking calories I consumed. I was stupid crazy in calories. I ranch dressinged everything, doritos hand over fist, ice cream, sour cream, lots of bread, lots of potatoes...
Once I managed the calorie intake... all the muscle I had built doing the boxing, lifting, running, and other active stuff in my life started to show.0 -
From my POV (vain, single, non-athlete with some physical limitations and just not enough natural love for the required activity to get to the very very end), it was a very informative article that set up expectations reasonably well - for me, getting to the end definitely would be a sacrifice.
But I hear what @usmcmp and @MireyGal76 are saying. But I think you two really are special, and this kind of article isn't geared to you as an audience. It's more for schlubs like me.
MireyGal76 - just ignore anyone who clucks at you. Whatever that woman's reasons for doing that are, they've got nothing to do with you. I'll guess she's unhappy about something about herself and takes that stance for a kind of defensive comfort. But who cares. You and your kids know what you do for them, and you know what you've achieved.
Thank you for your point of view (and for tagging me). Thinking back to when I was first starting out I had a variety of misconceptions about losing weight and I did not feel the way I do now about logging food and exercise. I think the article would have outlined things a lot better for me at that point, but I also would have said that the things it took to get lean were not possible.
Over time my habits changed and the possibility of being lean or getting leaner were more realistic. My habits came more in line with what it takes to be lean. There would be far more sacrifices to be made if I had the same mentality and habits now as I did when I first started. Not everyone will build up the habits and it is okay to say that the price of a lean body is not worth it.
You make excellent points. It's true - I know just from the bit I've done - which is a much more common achievement, just that of having lost pounds on the scale, far from the complete transformation you've accomplished in a very goal-directed way - that even that experience has changed my perspective on a lot of things beyond weight loss itself. It's made me feel like a person who can make things happen, and given me some energy and appetite for life. People definitely can change
I'm not sure I have it in me to go the last mile (even just on a physical level), but maybe more people can than think they can.0 -
From my POV (vain, single, non-athlete with some physical limitations and just not enough natural love for the required activity to get to the very very end), it was a very informative article that set up expectations reasonably well - for me, getting to the end definitely would be a sacrifice.
But I hear what @usmcmp and @MireyGal76 are saying. But I think you two really are special, and this kind of article isn't geared to you as an audience. It's more for schlubs like me.
MireyGal76 - just ignore anyone who clucks at you. Whatever that woman's reasons for doing that are, they've got nothing to do with you. I'll guess she's unhappy about something about herself and takes that stance for a kind of defensive comfort. But who cares. You and your kids know what you do for them, and you know what you've achieved.
Thank you for your point of view (and for tagging me). Thinking back to when I was first starting out I had a variety of misconceptions about losing weight and I did not feel the way I do now about logging food and exercise. I think the article would have outlined things a lot better for me at that point, but I also would have said that the things it took to get lean were not possible.
Over time my habits changed and the possibility of being lean or getting leaner were more realistic. My habits came more in line with what it takes to be lean. There would be far more sacrifices to be made if I had the same mentality and habits now as I did when I first started. Not everyone will build up the habits and it is okay to say that the price of a lean body is not worth it.
You make excellent points. It's true - I know just from the bit I've done - which is a much more common achievement, just that of having lost pounds on the scale, far from the complete transformation you've accomplished in a very goal-directed way - that even that experience has changed my perspective on a lot of things beyond weight loss itself. It's made me feel like a person who can make things happen, and given me some energy and appetite for life. People definitely can change
I'm not sure I have it in me to go the last mile (even just on a physical level), but maybe more people can than think they can.
You made some great points! It's interesting how small victories on the scale or with other goals translates to other areas of our lives. The reason I suggest getting active and doing things we like is because it is a self rewarding behavior. A good hike or lifting session or yoga pose translates into slightly better eating and other positive things. I'm glad you have seen positive changes!0 -
From my POV (vain, single, non-athlete with some physical limitations and just not enough natural love for the required activity to get to the very very end), it was a very informative article that set up expectations reasonably well - for me, getting to the end definitely would be a sacrifice.
But I hear what @usmcmp and @MireyGal76 are saying. But I think you two really are special, and this kind of article isn't geared to you as an audience. It's more for schlubs like me.
MireyGal76 - just ignore anyone who clucks at you. Whatever that woman's reasons for doing that are, they've got nothing to do with you. I'll guess she's unhappy about something about herself and takes that stance for a kind of defensive comfort. But who cares. You and your kids know what you do for them, and you know what you've achieved.
Thank you for your point of view (and for tagging me). Thinking back to when I was first starting out I had a variety of misconceptions about losing weight and I did not feel the way I do now about logging food and exercise. I think the article would have outlined things a lot better for me at that point, but I also would have said that the things it took to get lean were not possible.
Over time my habits changed and the possibility of being lean or getting leaner were more realistic. My habits came more in line with what it takes to be lean. There would be far more sacrifices to be made if I had the same mentality and habits now as I did when I first started. Not everyone will build up the habits and it is okay to say that the price of a lean body is not worth it.
You make excellent points. It's true - I know just from the bit I've done - which is a much more common achievement, just that of having lost pounds on the scale, far from the complete transformation you've accomplished in a very goal-directed way - that even that experience has changed my perspective on a lot of things beyond weight loss itself. It's made me feel like a person who can make things happen, and given me some energy and appetite for life. People definitely can change
I'm not sure I have it in me to go the last mile (even just on a physical level), but maybe more people can than think they can.
The one thing that you may find is that... when you get to whatever mile you've designated as your "last mile", you may find (like many of us have), that you want another mile. And when you're a mile away from that new end point... it doesn't seem so far away.
I think that the article could be good and bad in that it makes the mile I'm in look unattainable to people 15 miles behind me... but when it comes down to it... people should really focus on their next few miles, and stop worrying about the finish line. When someone new to running decides to train for a marathon, they don't (or shouldn't) expect to be running a marathon the next week. But it doesn't mean that they won't ever be able to run it. When you're running 3 miles... 26 seems impossible. When you're running 10, 3 seems easy and 26 still seems really far away. As you build up to 15, and then 20, and then 25.. you realize that maybe, just maybe you CAN do it.
I think this article can cause some who are just getting off the couch to never desire a marathon. And that's kind of sad. But maybe it's good in that they set more realistic initial goals, and allow that marathon to creep up on them?0
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