It makes me so angry that CICO etc. isn't taught in schools
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noobletmcnugget wrote: »noobletmcnugget wrote: »isulo_kura wrote: »It is in biology
It wasn't though that's the problem.Maybe it depends on where you go to school, but I know we had health and nutrition classes where I grew up. Didn't stop people from getting fat, pregnant or STDs, in some cases, all 3. You can't force people to care about information, no matter how early it's delivered. I see people I remember sitting next to me in poli sci and science post incredible misinformation about politics and science on fb all the time.
I live in the UK and I was never taught properly about it. And I realise that some people don't take notice of anything they're taught, but at the same time some do, and I think everyone should be given access to that information.
Maybe it's just different where I grew up, idk.
I'm in the UK too. It is covered, briefly, in biology. Also a BASIC grasp of physics helps.
How long do you want a school day to be/tax to be increased to (or diverted from elsewhere), to cover what is common sense and should be taught, through example, by parents?
If we ever covered it in biology it must have been extremely briefly. I never learnt about the effects of over restricting, about CICO, starvation mode (largely) being a myth or that fad diets, cleanses, detoxes etc. were utter rubbish.
Considering better education on it would likely decrease the incidence of weight-related medical problems, in addition to improving a lot of people's quality of life, I think it's rather important to teach properly actually.
Plus it wouldn't require much teaching time to cover the absolute basics. It could easily be covered in a single lesson.
IT IS covered. In biology, physics, home economics, guidance and PE.
I'm, personally, pleased that the majority of teaching time is spent on maths, English etc rather than wasting more time on it for people who aren't paying attention.
Might be now in most schools.
Wasn't in mine when I went through, and I went to a school that was regularly ranked in the top ten public schools, nationally. Well funded school. Lots of focus on education. Large assortment of AP classes, and I took most of them. My point being, we weren't exactly deficient in education and I wasn't the kid who didn't do well because I wasn't paying attention.
I got the food pyramid, and if you want to lose weight, eat less and move more. Not in those exact words. I got the food pyramid exactly twice: health and regular biology. I got 'how to lose weight' in health. AP biology was concerned with biochemistry, physiology, genetics, evolution ... not nutrition.
P.E. never taught anything but sports. No nutrition, no health, nada.
Physics never linked anything they taught to health. While it's nice to know that you can't create something from nothing, most people don't connect that to weight gain/loss without it being explicitly pointed out, as is evidenced by numerous posts in these forums. Besides, physics wasn't a required class in high school. Neither was biology for that matter. You could take Earth Sciences (read: Geology) and satisfy the science requirement if you wanted.
In fairness, when I mentioned physics I was referring to energy balance. CICO in the heading. Of course nutrition wasn't covered, that'd just be silly.
I'm a long, long time out of school too. It was and is taught (although I'm in Scotland, OP might be English) and I've still done some silly diet things.
The point is, teachers have enough to cover with limited resources. This should be taught, by example, at home.
Edit: and I went to a (pretty crappy) comprehensive - nowhere near top 10
Of course, but you don't have to cover nutrition to use it as an example.
My teacher used ice skating as one illustration for PV = nRT. Body weight + small surface area of ice skate blade increases pressure on ice, which raises surface temperature enough to melt the ice and create a skim of water that helps the blade to glide.
That's the kind of linking I meant.
As far as learning CICO at home by example, I'd agree - if that includes teaching CICO explicitly. And unfortunately, I don't know many people who have the foggiest clue about anything other than 'eat less, move more'. Which isn't near as efficient or easy to troubleshoot as CICO.0 -
So anyway, with all that said...our school has a "vegetable of the month" listed on the back of each month's lunch/breakfast calendar. There is basic information about that one vegetable. The vegetable is served maybe twice on the actual school campus during that month. Our kids learn about "health" far more from an exercise perspective - get up, move around and so on. That's just my kids' school district. I am sure each district is different. We're a upper middle-to-affluent area. Don't know if that makes a difference but I keep seeing socioeconomic status and an apparent lack of access to proper education getting thrown about here and there.
I would never, in a thousand years, rely on my children's schools to make their food choices for them or teach them nutrition. I consider that my job. However, if they want to throw in a few "health notes" there, I have no problem with that. If I disagree with what they consider "healthy," I'll re-teach my children the correct way at home and I will assume other parents are doing the same. But again, that's just me. Everyone is different.0 -
I wish there was more emphasis on nutrition, health, and wellness in general in our schools here in NM. Maybe things have changed but when I was in school, there was a 1 semester health class freshman year of high school and that was it and it was very broad; you can't get into a whole lot of detail in a semester. PE was also only required for one semester freshman year...thereafter you could take various PE type classes as an elective which I always did.
That said, I do think most of this is going to come from parents and the examples they set. My wife and I like our kids to see us in workout clothes and going to and from the gym and a lot of our family time is spent outdoors on walks and bike riding and generally being active. We also eat pretty well and nutrition is important to us. I think the example we are setting is far more powerful than anything they could ever learn in a class room.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
That said, I do think most of this is going to come from parents and the examples they set. My wife and I like our kids to see us in workout clothes and going to and from the gym and a lot of our family time is spent outdoors on walks and bike riding and generally being active. We also eat pretty well and nutrition is important to us. I think the example we are setting is far more powerful than anything they could ever learn in a class room.
Well, exactly.
I mean what kid is going to reply to "Guess what, kids! McDickey Meals were only $5.50 supersized today...just like yesterday...here you go...it even comes with a toy and a FRESH BAKED apple pie rectangle" with, "No thanks, Mom, today we learned the intrinsic value of a stalk of broccoli"?
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I felt the same. Tho I vaguely remember health class. I know the thing about the pyramid and food labels. But literally starting out I knew nothing about calories, counting, weighing, measuring, portions or food label stuff. I am now teaching what I learn to my girls. What is the portion size on the package? Because I always that a potion was 1 whole thing! Or what ingredients to watch out for in foods that are preservatives etc. That I was never taught. Oh and p. E is twice a week at their school and one recess a day that is 20 min long. That was not what I grew up with!0
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I think it also varies greatly with the curriculum in your area. My son's school is big on physical activity and they go outside every day if it's warm. A few weeks back I sent one very small chocolate in his lunch and it came back because he's "not allowed candy" in his lunch. Some parents might be upset at that but I was impressed. Parents are not allowed to send pop or chips in lunches.
Granted, he's only in Pre-K so we'll see how it goes as he progresses through the years. Also he's not in the public system which may also make a difference. A friend of mine is a teacher in the public system and she has one Grade 1 student who comes to school every day with a full sized chocolate bar and a bag of chips for lunch. EVERY DAY. Teachers are not allowed to say anything.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »DawnieB1977 wrote: »DawnieB1977 wrote: »Lrdoflamancha wrote: »JenniDaisy wrote: »If you can't get some schools to teach sex ed or the theory of evolution, I don't think you're going to get them to teach kids how to nourish their bodies properly.
Maybe because it is the theory of evolution... Not the fact of evolution...
Anyway, that's faith schools. I'm sure it's not against any religion to talk about eating and exercise.
Nope. True story - one of our biology teachers refused to teach the evolution section of the S grades and Highers. She was also one of the RE teachers O.o
(they did get another teacher in, didn't just skip it (as in the case of the above poster XD))
I know Catholic schools don't like kids to know anything except God created us! Plus of course their teaching of sex ed can depend on how strict a school it is. However, I'm sure Catholics believe in healthy eating and exercise
Nope. I went through 12 years of a Catholic education and I learned about the theory of evolution and an old earth and everything scientific. And this was back in the 60's and 70's.
We did get sex ed. Of course on the issue of birth control? That was bad. I have a funny story about that. I flustered the nun with so many logic and biblical questions on the issue that she had to call in the male principal who had to go into an advanced theological explanation for the church's stance on the position on it.
You're thinking of Christian schools. Different animal.
yeah, the Catholic Church has no quarrel with Big Bang or Evolution...when I lived in the South this was often held up to me as proof that we weren't "REAL Christians...." because "REAL Christians are Bobble Buhleevers."
In the US, at least, you need to go to some hardcore Fundamentalist Protestant Churches to get to the crazy. And, in many areas, it's allowed (and sometimes expected) to invade PUBLIC, TAXPAYER FUNDED schools.
What about the travesty of textbooks in Texas?
Don't get me started.0 -
I live in Ontario, Canada.
I vaguely remember elementary school teachings on nutrition, but what I do remember is getting that food pyramid regularly, even in highschool. It wasn't until circa 2003 in highschool that I took a nutrition course (not mandatory) where one whole week was focused on keeping a food journal of everything we ate for a week and then sitting in a computer room during class and filling out a food software program (something quite like MFP) and getting data back on calories, and micronutrients. I remember we had to hand in this "project" and write about what food choices we could've made that would've given us a better vitamin intake for the week. I don't think I took too much else away from that project in regards to calories because I wasn't overweight and was fairly active in running. I learned about exercising through gym in grade 9 because of a project our gym teacher gave us which was to complete something like 50-100km of any type of exercise that could be measured in distance (ie. swimming, running, walking, roller blading, biking, etc.) and we had the entire semester to complete it (our parents signing off as proof).
When I was 24 and finally decided I had a good 10 lbs to lose because of clothes just not fitting anymore, I didn't know where to turn though (somehow CICO did not sink in back in highschool), so I researched Weight Watchers and did it for free for about 3 months (with success) until I found MFP and did a lot more reading about CICO and exercise in general. Four years later and I'm back here losing again because I decided to become a sloth and forget the calories out portion of the equation.
But anyways, that's my experience with public school in Canada.0 -
My cousin. Kids do actually learn things at school, and it sticks with some of them, at least.cwolfman13 wrote: »
That said, I do think most of this is going to come from parents and the examples they set. My wife and I like our kids to see us in workout clothes and going to and from the gym and a lot of our family time is spent outdoors on walks and bike riding and generally being active. We also eat pretty well and nutrition is important to us. I think the example we are setting is far more powerful than anything they could ever learn in a class room.
Well, exactly.
I mean what kid is going to reply to "Guess what, kids! McDickey Meals were only $5.50 supersized today...just like yesterday...here you go...it even comes with a toy and a FRESH BAKED apple pie rectangle" with, "No thanks, Mom, today we learned the intrinsic value of a stalk of broccoli"?0 -
My cousin. Kids do actually learn things at school, and it sticks with some of them, at least.cwolfman13 wrote: »
That said, I do think most of this is going to come from parents and the examples they set. My wife and I like our kids to see us in workout clothes and going to and from the gym and a lot of our family time is spent outdoors on walks and bike riding and generally being active. We also eat pretty well and nutrition is important to us. I think the example we are setting is far more powerful than anything they could ever learn in a class room.
Well, exactly.
I mean what kid is going to reply to "Guess what, kids! McDickey Meals were only $5.50 supersized today...just like yesterday...here you go...it even comes with a toy and a FRESH BAKED apple pie rectangle" with, "No thanks, Mom, today we learned the intrinsic value of a stalk of broccoli"?
How old is your cousin?
What sorts of foods does your cousin's parents regularly eat and serve in the home?
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AgreedPeachyPlum wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »Umm yeah, it is. We teach about physical, social and emotional health actually.
*mini rant moment*
Why do schools have more and more responsibility chucked at them?! Is it too much to ask parents to parent?!
*rant over over*
what?? maybe OP is referring to health class where that should be part of the curriculum. It's not throwing more responsibility at the schools. come on! You must be one of those teachers who just got off spring break counting the days until summer because you have it so hard.
Wow. That doesn't really seem called for.
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My cousin. Kids do actually learn things at school, and it sticks with some of them, at least.cwolfman13 wrote: »
That said, I do think most of this is going to come from parents and the examples they set. My wife and I like our kids to see us in workout clothes and going to and from the gym and a lot of our family time is spent outdoors on walks and bike riding and generally being active. We also eat pretty well and nutrition is important to us. I think the example we are setting is far more powerful than anything they could ever learn in a class room.
Well, exactly.
I mean what kid is going to reply to "Guess what, kids! McDickey Meals were only $5.50 supersized today...just like yesterday...here you go...it even comes with a toy and a FRESH BAKED apple pie rectangle" with, "No thanks, Mom, today we learned the intrinsic value of a stalk of broccoli"?
How old is your cousin?
What sorts of foods does your cousin's parents regularly eat and serve in the home?
He's now 19, but was taught nutrition in I think the first two years of high school.
Meat/veg/potatoes; stews, casseroles, soups; they rely on frozen packaged foods at least sometimes (his mom's on her own). She likes sweets now and then. He began expressing a preference for more of the meat and veg stuff after doing that course, and she went along with it.0 -
My cousin. Kids do actually learn things at school, and it sticks with some of them, at least.cwolfman13 wrote: »
That said, I do think most of this is going to come from parents and the examples they set. My wife and I like our kids to see us in workout clothes and going to and from the gym and a lot of our family time is spent outdoors on walks and bike riding and generally being active. We also eat pretty well and nutrition is important to us. I think the example we are setting is far more powerful than anything they could ever learn in a class room.
Well, exactly.
I mean what kid is going to reply to "Guess what, kids! McDickey Meals were only $5.50 supersized today...just like yesterday...here you go...it even comes with a toy and a FRESH BAKED apple pie rectangle" with, "No thanks, Mom, today we learned the intrinsic value of a stalk of broccoli"?
How old is your cousin?
What sorts of foods does your cousin's parents regularly eat and serve in the home?
He's now 19, but was taught nutrition in I think the first two years of high school.
Meat/veg/potatoes; stews, casseroles, soups; they rely on frozen packaged foods at least sometimes (his mom's on her own). She likes sweets now and then. He began expressing a preference for more of the meat and veg stuff after doing that course, and she went along with it.
So in other words, he WAS eating reasonably inside the home. He was being shown stews, soups, etc. and packaged food "sometimes" -that doesn't exactly sound like an anti-nutrition caloriefest to me. Actually, it sounds pretty reasonable. (Who doesn't eat packaged food sometimes? I do and I've lost 30 lbs. so far and feel energetic and healthy.) Then he leaned more toward meat and veggies and I guess began to forgo packaged items? As a teenager leaning toward adulthood (and now he technically is an adult)?
That's wonderful, and I am glad for him, but you aren't describing the typical elementary-school kid with Mom putting Burger King in front of him and saying, "We're all eating this in front of you, if you don't want it you can either make yourself a sandwich or starve."
That 5-minute nutrition segment from Officer Carrotty isn't going to go very far in the face of that.
Again, I do feel it's down to the parents. Kids can logically know something but in the face of smells and delicious tastes, they - especially when they're younger, not when they're near-legal adults - will have a very difficult time adhering to their nutrition "lesson." Knowing something and having it together enough to actually do it are two different things. Even the adults on here have admitted to that, and they're not eight-year-olds sitting at their parents' dinner table.
I'm sorry, but the schools can teach anything they want about nutrition; if the parents blatantly ignore the "lessons" and serve whatever it is they serve and eat it in front of the child, well...come on.
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My cousin. Kids do actually learn things at school, and it sticks with some of them, at least.cwolfman13 wrote: »
That said, I do think most of this is going to come from parents and the examples they set. My wife and I like our kids to see us in workout clothes and going to and from the gym and a lot of our family time is spent outdoors on walks and bike riding and generally being active. We also eat pretty well and nutrition is important to us. I think the example we are setting is far more powerful than anything they could ever learn in a class room.
Well, exactly.
I mean what kid is going to reply to "Guess what, kids! McDickey Meals were only $5.50 supersized today...just like yesterday...here you go...it even comes with a toy and a FRESH BAKED apple pie rectangle" with, "No thanks, Mom, today we learned the intrinsic value of a stalk of broccoli"?
How old is your cousin?
What sorts of foods does your cousin's parents regularly eat and serve in the home?
He's now 19, but was taught nutrition in I think the first two years of high school.
Meat/veg/potatoes; stews, casseroles, soups; they rely on frozen packaged foods at least sometimes (his mom's on her own). She likes sweets now and then. He began expressing a preference for more of the meat and veg stuff after doing that course, and she went along with it.
So in other words, he WAS eating reasonably inside the home. He was being shown stews, soups, etc. and packaged food "sometimes" -that doesn't exactly sound like an anti-nutrition caloriefest to me. Actually, it sounds pretty reasonable. (Who doesn't eat packaged food sometimes? I do and I've lost 30 lbs. so far and feel energetic and healthy.) Then he leaned more toward meat and veggies and I guess began to forgo packaged items? As a teenager leaning toward adulthood (and now he technically is an adult)?
That's wonderful, and I am glad for him, but you aren't describing the typical elementary-school kid with Mom putting Burger King in front of him and saying, "We're all eating this in front of you, if you don't want it you can either make yourself a sandwich or starve."
That 5-minute nutrition segment from Officer Carrotty isn't going to go very far in the face of that.
Again, I do feel it's down to the parents. Kids can logically know something but in the face of smells and delicious tastes, they - especially when they're younger, not when they're near-legal adults - will have a very difficult time adhering to their nutrition "lesson." Knowing something and having it together enough to actually do it are two different things. Even the adults on here have admitted to that, and they're not eight-year-olds sitting at their parents' dinner table.
I'm sorry, but the schools can teach anything they want about nutrition; if the parents blatantly ignore the "lessons" and serve whatever it is they serve and eat it in front of the child, well...come on.
Fair points, yeah.
At the same time, parents and kids mutually influence each other. Parents want their kids to be happy (or sometimes to just shut up I guess, lol). It might strike a chord with the right individuals. My cousin happened to be motivated because he'd started getting a little pudgy in those years, and wanted to do something about it. (The packaged stuff probably happened more often than "sometimes" back then.)0 -
So anyway, with all that said...our school has a "vegetable of the month" listed on the back of each month's lunch/breakfast calendar. There is basic information about that one vegetable. The vegetable is served maybe twice on the actual school campus during that month.
This amuses me.
It also reminds me that my state (Illinois, which has a number of real problems), is currently enacting legislation to name a state pie. (Pumpkin, which is actually appropriate, as we apparently produce a huge percentage of the canned pumpkin that is sold.)
Just our little contribution to the obesity epidemic!0 -
crazyjerseygirl wrote: »I think the reason why CICO isn't taught in schools is because giving a bunch of pre/teens the way to loose weight would be putting the school right on track to be sued for eating disorders.
Do schools get sued because someone got pregnant, because the school teaches sex ed? Bizarre argument.
Why make weight LOSS a focus? How about just...maintaining a healthy weight or simply understanding how gaining/losing/maintaining weight works?
They could present the healthy weight zones for people's age/height and how many calories it takes to maintain, to reach a certain weight, etc. And that a calorie is a calorie, but use this class to instruct on the RDA levels of nutrients and how to read labels and reach those goals....
When I was in school we discussed eating from the 4 food groups and then later the Food Guide Pyramid. I do not recall learning about calories at all...or much about nutrition. Health class is a vague memory; all I remember is sex ed, which was but one portion of the marking period, but when you're a teen, you remember what's important to you.
I remember our (public) school was very conservative, and the health teacher (who was gay, actually) told us that the chapter about homosexuality was cut out of the book and we all of course turned to see if indeed that chapter was missing, and it was. Yes my friends, that is what I remember from health class.
So while I think it would be a good idea I highly doubt it would be received and remembered, not when there are condoms and STD's and exciting bodily functions to discuss.
Then again, that was the 80s. Most of today's 4th graders know more than I did by 10th grade...
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I can't imagine two parents agreeing on (and not screaming about) "healthy" food guidelines, much less an entire school full of them.
Keep qualifiers like the term "healthy" out of it. Present the facts. Show kids what the RDA of nutrients are, teach them how to determine what the recommended caloric intake for their body size would be, and teach them how to find foods that meet basic nutritional goals. No need to say "white bread is not as healthy as whole wheat" but rather teach them to read labels, compare it to RDA recommendations for people, and let them decide for themselves what's healthy or not.
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crazyjerseygirl wrote: »I think the reason why CICO isn't taught in schools is because giving a bunch of pre/teens the way to loose weight would be putting the school right on track to be sued for eating disorders.
Do schools get sued because someone got pregnant, because the school teaches sex ed? Bizarre argument.
Why make weight LOSS a focus? How about just...maintaining a healthy weight or simply understanding how gaining/losing/maintaining weight works?
They could present the healthy weight zones for people's age/height and how many calories it takes to maintain, to reach a certain weight, etc. And that a calorie is a calorie, but use this class to instruct on the RDA levels of nutrients and how to read labels and reach those goals....
Here's something some schools are doing and the response: http://www.parents.com/blogs/food-scoop/2013/09/04/diet/report-cards-about-your-kids-weight-good-or-bad-idea/
I remember learning about the 4 food groups too, but only vaguely. I can't remember at all if we discussed nutrition after elementary school, but we very well might have. I get the sense that more teaching about this stuff (MyPlate and all that) happens now, but it's so impossible to generalize about what happens in US schools.
In the '80s there were fitness standards for physical activity, I remember that.0 -
If we're really serious about this, why not increase the amount of PE during the school week, put in performance standards for it, have quarterly body composition assessments and those not meeting acceptable standards get extra PE?
We're lucky. The kids get PE 45 minutes per day, every day of the week, right up until 6th grade. Then in 7th and 8th they get it two quarters/school year. High school they only have to take it once, unless they are on a school team.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »crazyjerseygirl wrote: »I think the reason why CICO isn't taught in schools is because giving a bunch of pre/teens the way to loose weight would be putting the school right on track to be sued for eating disorders.
Do schools get sued because someone got pregnant, because the school teaches sex ed? Bizarre argument.
Why make weight LOSS a focus? How about just...maintaining a healthy weight or simply understanding how gaining/losing/maintaining weight works?
They could present the healthy weight zones for people's age/height and how many calories it takes to maintain, to reach a certain weight, etc. And that a calorie is a calorie, but use this class to instruct on the RDA levels of nutrients and how to read labels and reach those goals....
Here's something some schools are doing and the response: http://www.parents.com/blogs/food-scoop/2013/09/04/diet/report-cards-about-your-kids-weight-good-or-bad-idea/
I remember learning about the 4 food groups too, but only vaguely. I can't remember at all if we discussed nutrition after elementary school, but we very well might have. I get the sense that more teaching about this stuff (MyPlate and all that) happens now, but it's so impossible to generalize about what happens in US schools.
In the '80s there were fitness standards for physical activity, I remember that.
We had (have?) a national program called ParticipAction. You'd get medals for fitness (calisthenics, track events, running, whatever). I sucked at most of it. So bad. I got a "thanks for coming out [P for "participated"] for every standard except for long jump (silver) and situps (gold). And all my gym teachers were mean.
I liked ballet classes, though. I could get my body together (enough) for the duration of the class because I liked the music.0
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