vegan diet
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I feel like you completely avoided the question. Why is avoiding fat more sustainable than avoiding carbs if people in both groups eat to satisfaction? And why would either plan be more sustainable for those of us who enjoy plants and carbs?
janejellyroll: More sustainable because you eat when your hungry and don't starve yourself. I'm only talking plant based here...not vegan junk food. How many times has everyone here lost weight and gained it back? Before I switched to plant based...it was every 3 months...now it's been a year and I'm feeling much healthier and lighter..."all the time"
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janejellyroll wrote: »
I feel like you completely avoided the question. Why is avoiding fat more sustainable than avoiding carbs if people in both groups eat to satisfaction? And why would either plan be more sustainable for those of us who enjoy plants and carbs?
janejellyroll: More sustainable because you eat when your hungry and don't starve yourself. I'm only talking plant based here...not vegan junk food. How many times has everyone here lost weight and gained it back? Before I switched to plant based...it was every 3 months...now it's been a year and I'm feeling much healthier and lighter..."all the time"
Avoid, avoid, avoid....
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Yes! I went vegan for a few months and lost weight so fast! Vegan diets are super healthy if you know what you are doing and it makes the world a better place
Oh Christ on a Vegan Cracker no. You lost weight because of CICO. Not being Vegan.
OP, do what works for you.... but please be aware as other posters have pointed out, going Vegan won't magically cause you to lose weight. Eating less calories than you burn will cause you to lose weight. If you enjoy a plant based vegan diet, awesome. My recommendation? Make sure you're still hitting your macros. There are a few Vegan groups that can help answer questions you may have and can be a supportive community.
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Being a vegan myself, I will always tell you that taking animal products out of your system will make you more healthy, others will disagree. But it is not a "diet" it is a lifestyle that you embrace for health or morale/ethical reasons. If you feel you would like to try it, do it! But do not let anyone tell you that you have to do it to lose weight. There is a lot of great info on this site about health and weight loss. Read everything, make an informed decision as to what is best for YOU.0
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Unless you have a moral compass that tells you needn't eat animal products, there isn't a reason to go vegan. Vegan isn't any healthier than a balance diet.0
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Being a vegan myself, I will always tell you that taking animal products out of your system will make you more healthy, others will disagree.
I will disagree with this. It totally depends on what animal products you take out and what you replace them with.
I completely think it's possible to have a happy and healthy vegan life. But is every vegan eating healthier than every omnivore? No.
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PRMinx: Eating less and starving yourself of nutrition is what leads people to binge because they are still hungry and not satiated. Then you are sold on drugs and supplements to curb your appetite or get vitamins so now it cost $$. Not to mention even eating smaller amounts of chicken and eggs for that matter is still higher in saturated fat and cholesterol then getting the same protein from plant based without the bad stuff.
janejellyroll: More sustainable because you eat when your hungry and don't starve yourself. I'm only talking plant based here...not vegan junk food. How many times has everyone here lost weight and gained it back? Before I switched to plant based...it was every 3 months...now it's been a year and I'm feeling much healthier and lighter..."all the time". If you ask any fitness competitor that is plant based...they are always ready and don't have to bulk up, slim down, or cut before competition and they recover much faster.
jddnw! LOL Thanks for pointing that out! Hey, now that I realize it...I was still a meat and dairy guy at age 3 too. My mom was feeding me liquid milk or mashed up meat!
I took a quick look in your diary. The few days I looked at, you ate around 1950 calories. For a man your age, that's not exactly an earth-shattering amount that defies any energy-balance equations.
What exactly are you going on about when you're talking about other people starving themselves? You're clearly not eating at an energy surplus as your claims would seem to say you are.
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Popping in to defend cooking our food:
https://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_herculano_houzel_what_is_so_special_about_the_human_brain?language=en0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »PRMinx: Eating less and starving yourself of nutrition is what leads people to binge because they are still hungry and not satiated. Then you are sold on drugs and supplements to curb your appetite or get vitamins so now it cost $$. Not to mention even eating smaller amounts of chicken and eggs for that matter is still higher in saturated fat and cholesterol then getting the same protein from plant based without the bad stuff.
janejellyroll: More sustainable because you eat when your hungry and don't starve yourself. I'm only talking plant based here...not vegan junk food. How many times has everyone here lost weight and gained it back? Before I switched to plant based...it was every 3 months...now it's been a year and I'm feeling much healthier and lighter..."all the time". If you ask any fitness competitor that is plant based...they are always ready and don't have to bulk up, slim down, or cut before competition and they recover much faster.
jddnw! LOL Thanks for pointing that out! Hey, now that I realize it...I was still a meat and dairy guy at age 3 too. My mom was feeding me liquid milk or mashed up meat!
I took a quick look in your diary. The few days I looked at, you ate around 1950 calories. For a man your age, that's not exactly an earth-shattering amount that defies any energy-balance equations.
What exactly are you going on about when you're talking about other people starving themselves? You're clearly not eating at an energy surplus as your claims would seem to say you are.
Ohhhh busted.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »PRMinx: Eating less and starving yourself of nutrition is what leads people to binge because they are still hungry and not satiated. Then you are sold on drugs and supplements to curb your appetite or get vitamins so now it cost $$. Not to mention even eating smaller amounts of chicken and eggs for that matter is still higher in saturated fat and cholesterol then getting the same protein from plant based without the bad stuff.
janejellyroll: More sustainable because you eat when your hungry and don't starve yourself. I'm only talking plant based here...not vegan junk food. How many times has everyone here lost weight and gained it back? Before I switched to plant based...it was every 3 months...now it's been a year and I'm feeling much healthier and lighter..."all the time". If you ask any fitness competitor that is plant based...they are always ready and don't have to bulk up, slim down, or cut before competition and they recover much faster.
jddnw! LOL Thanks for pointing that out! Hey, now that I realize it...I was still a meat and dairy guy at age 3 too. My mom was feeding me liquid milk or mashed up meat!
I took a quick look in your diary. The few days I looked at, you ate around 1950 calories. For a man your age, that's not exactly an earth-shattering amount that defies any energy-balance equations.
What exactly are you going on about when you're talking about other people starving themselves? You're clearly not eating at an energy surplus as your claims would seem to say you are.
That's a pretty low number even if he never exercises. I will stick to my 3600 calories a day of balanced diet if you have to eat such low calories when you are vegan
1950 sounds like breakfast to me.
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Very funny but I want to point out that 2,000-3,000 calories I'm consuming of fruit, vegetables and whole foods give me so much more energy and nutrition then 2,000 calories of meat which has absolutely zero carbs, is high in saturated fat and cholesterol...
I also not starving myself of "nutrition" and the calories in and calories out argument makes no sense if you are eating 2,000 calories from mostly meat and dairy which lead to heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and other health risks vs 2,000 calories from fruits, veggies, and whole foods which actually reverse disease and heal your body...Our bodies digest food differently and take different metabolic pathways and use that energy differently.
Most of the people here are trying to get healthy and lose weight and the healthiest way to do that and heal yourself is a plant based diet. It's a fact you will reduce and reverse heart disease, diabetes, and more. I'll bet most people here are calorie restricting and only eating 1-1,500 calories a day and taking supplements or diet pills.
I'm not here to help meat eaters who are discouraging people from switching to a vegan or plant based lifestyle.
Hornsby...you state you are eating 3,600 calories a day but hide your food and fitness diary? I suspect you are taking or pushing supplements and whey protein...I doubt you sustain that many calories everyday unles your are bulking up! Are you in competitions? Nice of you to chime in but I'm sure there is more to your story....
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/myths-and-facts-of-vegan-nutrition-in-bodybuilding/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/trans-fat-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-tolerable-upper-intake-of-zero/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/uprooting-the-leading-causes-of-death/0 -
Very funny but I want to point out that 2,000-3,000 calories I'm consuming of fruit, vegetables and whole foods give me so much more energy and nutrition then 2,000 calories of meat which has absolutely zero carbs, is high in saturated fat and cholesterol...
I also not starving myself of "nutrition" and the calories in and calories out argument makes no sense if you are eating 2,000 calories from mostly meat and dairy which lead to heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and other health risks vs 2,000 calories from fruits, veggies, and whole foods which actually reverse disease and heal your body...Our bodies digest food differently and take different metabolic pathways and use that energy differently.
Most of the people here are trying to get healthy and lose weight and the healthiest way to do that and heal yourself is a plant based diet. It's a fact you will reduce and reverse heart disease, diabetes, and more. I'll bet most people here are calorie restricting and only eating 1-1,500 calories a day and taking supplements or diet pills.
I'm not here to help meat eaters who are discouraging people from switching to a vegan or plant based lifestyle.
Hornsby...you state you are eating 3,600 calories a day but hide your food and fitness diary? I suspect you are taking or pushing supplements and whey protein...I doubt you sustain that many calories everyday unles your are bulking up! Are you in competitions? Nice of you to chime in but I'm sure there is more to your story....
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/myths-and-facts-of-vegan-nutrition-in-bodybuilding/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/trans-fat-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-tolerable-upper-intake-of-zero/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/uprooting-the-leading-causes-of-death/
lol lol lol at your links - so much bias there.
I bet you read the china study and forks over knives and drank all the cool aid :laugh:0 -
Very funny but I want to point out that 2,000-3,000 calories I'm consuming of fruit, vegetables and whole foods give me so much more energy and nutrition then 2,000 calories of meat which has absolutely zero carbs, is high in saturated fat and cholesterol...
I also not starving myself of "nutrition" and the calories in and calories out argument makes no sense if you are eating 2,000 calories from mostly meat and dairy which lead to heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and other health risks vs 2,000 calories from fruits, veggies, and whole foods which actually reverse disease and heal your body...Our bodies digest food differently and take different metabolic pathways and use that energy differently.
Most of the people here are trying to get healthy and lose weight and the healthiest way to do that and heal yourself is a plant based diet. It's a fact you will reduce and reverse heart disease, diabetes, and more. I'll bet most people here are calorie restricting and only eating 1-1,500 calories a day and taking supplements or diet pills.
I'm not here to help meat eaters who are discouraging people from switching to a vegan or plant based lifestyle.
Hornsby...you state you are eating 3,600 calories a day but hide your food and fitness diary? I suspect you are taking or pushing supplements and whey protein...I doubt you sustain that many calories everyday unles your are bulking up! Are you in competitions? Nice of you to chime in but I'm sure there is more to your story....
http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/myths-and-facts-of-vegan-nutrition-in-bodybuilding/
http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/trans-fat-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-tolerable-upper-intake-of-zero/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/uprooting-the-leading-causes-of-death/
Seriously, those links prove 0. Those are opinion pieces. I didn't see any actual science or studies. Did I miss some? These are the equivalent of getting your advice from Cosmo magazine.
And yes, I hide my diary. I eat the same thing 5 days a week during the day, and calculate by hand in the evenings for dinner. Many people have seen my diary when it was open and I tracked regularly. If you don't believe me, so be it. I promise you it's true though.
I do a lot of cardio. Not gonna lie about that. I am a cyclist so yes, I burn some cals. I also lift heavy 4 days a week. Now, just think about how much you eat now... and think about how much double that would be... I couldn't eat that much food. I hit every one of my macro and micro targets daily so I am not quite sure how I would be starving myself from nutrition when I hit all those every day. 300-350 grams of carbs, 150-200 grams of protein (yes, I use whey if needed to hit my protein which happens about 3 times per week), and 40-60 grams of fat. Vitamins and minerals are hit 99% of the time as well. As mentioned,I do use whey from time to time and take fish oil. No other supplements though.
Do you have any science that shows that heart disease, diabetes, and obesity are caused by meat and dairy? We are talking about a moderate diet here (balanced).
I am glad you found something you like, but to project that your diet is the healthiest of all the diets is just flat out wrong. There is no evidence that shows this.
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Cosmopolitan..are you kidding....that's just ridiculous! nutritionfacts.org is Dr. McGregor's site. He does more research then you and I ever could and does a really good job of it. He makes videos and points out sources and data to follow it up. Besides that, there are plenty of Doctors like Dr. Esselyn who has and continues to reverse heart disease in patients using a plant based diet. Look up Dr McDougall's methods. They are NOT opinions. They have researched and have case studies and patients themselves that prove it. Find Dr. Ellsworth's 98 year old vegan on youtube and see what he has to say being a cardiothoracic surgeon until he retired at 95.
All I can tell you is question everything on both sides and do your research, I did point you in the right direction.0 -
Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?0 -
Very funny but I want to point out that 2,000-3,000 calories I'm consuming of fruit, vegetables and whole foods give me so much more energy and nutrition then 2,000 calories of meat which has absolutely zero carbs, is high in saturated fat and cholesterol...
I have not tried eating 2000 calories of meat a day. I don't know anybody personally on the all-meat-all-the-time diet. But, I have tried a WFPB diet with no added oils as described by McDougall. And I have tried a more conventional balanced diet that includes all the great plant foods recommended by McDougall, as well as reasonable portions of meat, fish, poultry, eggs, and dairy. I feel better on the latter. And the latter is much more satiating to me. And I have found lots of research that fully debunks the vegan dogma that these foods are evil and wreck your health. On the contrary, these foods can be quite good for you.
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Calling bias on this site is the equivalent of a child stomping his feet. If you throw up links some one doesn't like, they'll cry it.0
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LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?0 -
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This. Vegan for 25 years. Vegan diet is not a magic bullet. You can eat too many calories as a vegan. I have been 227 lbs at 5'9 as a vegan with a BMI in the mid 30's. But you can also be a healthy weight. I was at goal for a few years which for me is 150. I am vegan for moral and ethical reasons. Vegan is a given for me. Healthy weight is something I need to work to achieve and maintain. Right now I am working back towards goal. Vegan and CI and CO is a great combo for me.janejellyroll wrote: »I've been vegan for nine years. I love it. However, it's not a weight loss diet. Vegans come in all shapes and sizes. I've been at my lowest weight as a vegan and my second highest weight as a vegan. It comes down to calories in and calories out.
Some vegans lose weight because the animal products they eliminated were major sources of calories for them and they don't replace them with other things. However, lots of people find good replacements and are able to maintain their weight (or even gain weight). There are so many delicious vegan foods -- it's very easy to overdo it.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. It's certainly compatible with losing weight, but if you go vegan to lose weight, you may wind up disappointed. Or you may lose weight. It will come down to calories in and calories out, just as it does today.
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Go vegan if you want. But it's not magic for losing weight. I worked for a dance company and know one of the dancers went from vegetarian to vegan (for ethical reasons) but was finding it hard to get enough energy through the day while training daily and performing regularly so switched back reluctantly. As soon as she went freelance she could have more control.0
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That could have been about what choices she was making as a vegan. It isn't a guven that vegan means mire or less energy. It might have for her based on what she was eatting as a vegan. Just like it doesn't mean you drop weight by being vegan it is all about what chouces you make as a vegan.megomerrett wrote: »Go vegan if you want. But it's not magic for losing weight. I worked for a dance company and know one of the dancers went from vegetarian to vegan (for ethical reasons) but was finding it hard to get enough energy through the day while training daily and performing regularly so switched back reluctantly. As soon as she went freelance she could have more control.
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LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?
Show me where I said anything about fitness gurus or drugs. Greger is an HSUS hack and an animal rights extremist. Doctors and scientists are guilty of pet theories, bias and data mining all the time; having an advanced degree is not a shield from bias. Appeal to authority is a pretty bad foundation for an argument, in any case, even if referenced and peer-reviewed research makes excellent support for one.
I don't make any magical claims for food. I'll leave that to vegans and other people who need to make such claims to make their diets attractive. I eat all the meat I can afford and consume a lot of dairy because of the milk I get from my goat. I have lost almost 61 pounds in the last year. I have gone from having an average fasting bgl of 131 to an average fasting bgl of 93. Make all the claims you want, but there are plenty of fat vegans out there and I have never met one who looks healthy.0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?
Show me where I said anything about fitness gurus or drugs. Greger is an HSUS hack and an animal rights extremist. Doctors and scientists are guilty of pet theories, bias and data mining all the time; having an advanced degree is not a shield from bias. Appeal to authority is a pretty bad foundation for an argument, in any case, even if referenced and peer-reviewed research makes excellent support for one.
I don't make any magical claims for food. I'll leave that to vegans and other people who need to make such claims to make their diets attractive. I eat all the meat I can afford and consume a lot of dairy because of the milk I get from my goat. I have lost almost 61 pounds in the last year. I have gone from having an average fasting bgl of 131 to an average fasting bgl of 93. Make all the claims you want, but there are plenty of fat vegans out there and I have never met one who looks healthy.
How many vegans have you met? Is it possible that you have met vegans and not known it?
I would guess that most of my co-workers (except for the ones that I socialize with regularly or are on my travel team) have no idea that I'm vegan.
Also, there are many vegans who make no magical claims for food. There absolutely can be fat and unhealthy vegans. There can also be vegans who eat healthfully, just as omnivores can. Avoiding animal products isn't required for health. But consuming animal products isn't required for health either.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?
Show me where I said anything about fitness gurus or drugs. Greger is an HSUS hack and an animal rights extremist. Doctors and scientists are guilty of pet theories, bias and data mining all the time; having an advanced degree is not a shield from bias. Appeal to authority is a pretty bad foundation for an argument, in any case, even if referenced and peer-reviewed research makes excellent support for one.
I don't make any magical claims for food. I'll leave that to vegans and other people who need to make such claims to make their diets attractive. I eat all the meat I can afford and consume a lot of dairy because of the milk I get from my goat. I have lost almost 61 pounds in the last year. I have gone from having an average fasting bgl of 131 to an average fasting bgl of 93. Make all the claims you want, but there are plenty of fat vegans out there and I have never met one who looks healthy.
How many vegans have you met? Is it possible that you have met vegans and not known it?
I would guess that most of my co-workers (except for the ones that I socialize with regularly or are on my travel team) have no idea that I'm vegan.
Also, there are many vegans who make no magical claims for food. There absolutely can be fat and unhealthy vegans. There can also be vegans who eat healthfully, just as omnivores can. Avoiding animal products isn't required for health. But consuming animal products isn't required for health either.
We agree on one thing, anyway.
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LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?
Show me where I said anything about fitness gurus or drugs. Greger is an HSUS hack and an animal rights extremist. Doctors and scientists are guilty of pet theories, bias and data mining all the time; having an advanced degree is not a shield from bias. Appeal to authority is a pretty bad foundation for an argument, in any case, even if referenced and peer-reviewed research makes excellent support for one.
I don't make any magical claims for food. I'll leave that to vegans and other people who need to make such claims to make their diets attractive. I eat all the meat I can afford and consume a lot of dairy because of the milk I get from my goat. I have lost almost 61 pounds in the last year. I have gone from having an average fasting bgl of 131 to an average fasting bgl of 93. Make all the claims you want, but there are plenty of fat vegans out there and I have never met one who looks healthy.
How many vegans have you met? Is it possible that you have met vegans and not known it?
I would guess that most of my co-workers (except for the ones that I socialize with regularly or are on my travel team) have no idea that I'm vegan.
Also, there are many vegans who make no magical claims for food. There absolutely can be fat and unhealthy vegans. There can also be vegans who eat healthfully, just as omnivores can. Avoiding animal products isn't required for health. But consuming animal products isn't required for health either.
We agree on one thing, anyway.
You aren't interested in discussing the rest of my post?
You have some really strong ideas about vegans that seem to be based on personal experience. I'm curious how many vegans you met to form those impressions.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?
Show me where I said anything about fitness gurus or drugs. Greger is an HSUS hack and an animal rights extremist. Doctors and scientists are guilty of pet theories, bias and data mining all the time; having an advanced degree is not a shield from bias. Appeal to authority is a pretty bad foundation for an argument, in any case, even if referenced and peer-reviewed research makes excellent support for one.
I don't make any magical claims for food. I'll leave that to vegans and other people who need to make such claims to make their diets attractive. I eat all the meat I can afford and consume a lot of dairy because of the milk I get from my goat. I have lost almost 61 pounds in the last year. I have gone from having an average fasting bgl of 131 to an average fasting bgl of 93. Make all the claims you want, but there are plenty of fat vegans out there and I have never met one who looks healthy.
How many vegans have you met? Is it possible that you have met vegans and not known it?
I would guess that most of my co-workers (except for the ones that I socialize with regularly or are on my travel team) have no idea that I'm vegan.
Also, there are many vegans who make no magical claims for food. There absolutely can be fat and unhealthy vegans. There can also be vegans who eat healthfully, just as omnivores can. Avoiding animal products isn't required for health. But consuming animal products isn't required for health either.
We agree on one thing, anyway.
You aren't interested in discussing the rest of my post?
You have some really strong ideas about vegans that seem to be based on personal experience. I'm curious how many vegans you met to form those impressions.
No, I have no desire to derail the thread in an off-topic discussion with you. I've personally met enough vegans and had experience with plenty more to form my opinions. I miss being able to use the block function on MFP, since vegans were the primary recipient of that action.0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?
Show me where I said anything about fitness gurus or drugs. Greger is an HSUS hack and an animal rights extremist. Doctors and scientists are guilty of pet theories, bias and data mining all the time; having an advanced degree is not a shield from bias. Appeal to authority is a pretty bad foundation for an argument, in any case, even if referenced and peer-reviewed research makes excellent support for one.
I don't make any magical claims for food. I'll leave that to vegans and other people who need to make such claims to make their diets attractive. I eat all the meat I can afford and consume a lot of dairy because of the milk I get from my goat. I have lost almost 61 pounds in the last year. I have gone from having an average fasting bgl of 131 to an average fasting bgl of 93. Make all the claims you want, but there are plenty of fat vegans out there and I have never met one who looks healthy.
How many vegans have you met? Is it possible that you have met vegans and not known it?
I would guess that most of my co-workers (except for the ones that I socialize with regularly or are on my travel team) have no idea that I'm vegan.
Also, there are many vegans who make no magical claims for food. There absolutely can be fat and unhealthy vegans. There can also be vegans who eat healthfully, just as omnivores can. Avoiding animal products isn't required for health. But consuming animal products isn't required for health either.
We agree on one thing, anyway.
You aren't interested in discussing the rest of my post?
You have some really strong ideas about vegans that seem to be based on personal experience. I'm curious how many vegans you met to form those impressions.
No, I have no desire to derail the thread in an off-topic discussion with you. I've personally met enough vegans and had experience with plenty more to form my opinions. I miss being able to use the block function on MFP, since vegans were the primary recipient of that action.
I apologize. I thought you were open to discussion on the topic of the thread. Avoiding threads about veganism may help until MFP brings back the block feature.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »Michael Greger M.D.
Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
Yeah, no bias there. [/sarcasm]
Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Complete absence of references and peer review. Can you offer anything of value to support your position?
I can't believe that if you actually have several Dr's with the education, degrees, case studies with actual patients and scientific evidence and research it's not compelling enough for you to open your eyes! LOL
People would just rather believe anything that supports their eating habits like following fitness gurus who sell and take drugs and supplements saying how healthy and natural they are.
Where are the studies showing you that including meat and dairy in your diet prevents or reverses heart disease, diabetes, or cancer?
Show me where I said anything about fitness gurus or drugs. Greger is an HSUS hack and an animal rights extremist. Doctors and scientists are guilty of pet theories, bias and data mining all the time; having an advanced degree is not a shield from bias. Appeal to authority is a pretty bad foundation for an argument, in any case, even if referenced and peer-reviewed research makes excellent support for one.
I don't make any magical claims for food. I'll leave that to vegans and other people who need to make such claims to make their diets attractive. I eat all the meat I can afford and consume a lot of dairy because of the milk I get from my goat. I have lost almost 61 pounds in the last year. I have gone from having an average fasting bgl of 131 to an average fasting bgl of 93. Make all the claims you want, but there are plenty of fat vegans out there and I have never met one who looks healthy.
How many vegans have you met? Is it possible that you have met vegans and not known it?
I would guess that most of my co-workers (except for the ones that I socialize with regularly or are on my travel team) have no idea that I'm vegan.
Also, there are many vegans who make no magical claims for food. There absolutely can be fat and unhealthy vegans. There can also be vegans who eat healthfully, just as omnivores can. Avoiding animal products isn't required for health. But consuming animal products isn't required for health either.
We agree on one thing, anyway.
You aren't interested in discussing the rest of my post?
You have some really strong ideas about vegans that seem to be based on personal experience. I'm curious how many vegans you met to form those impressions.
No, I have no desire to derail the thread in an off-topic discussion with you. I've personally met enough vegans and had experience with plenty more to form my opinions. I miss being able to use the block function on MFP, since vegans were the primary recipient of that action.
I apologize. I thought you were open to discussion on the topic of the thread. Avoiding threads about veganism may help until MFP brings back the block feature.
Geez, Jane is one of the most knowledgeable people on this board when it comes to veganism and is always polite. I got your back, Jane!
0
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