Is a High Carb, Low Fat Diet Better Than High Fat, Low Carb?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Don't listen to Freelee.
I wish people would stop pitting such macro extremes against each other like keto vs. Freelee's version of raw vegan (it's not the only raw vegan approach).
What's wrong with moderate carb, moderate fat, moderate protein? A nice balanced diet of nourishing foods that you like?
this to me is the answer... balance0 -
There is a lot of scientific support out there for a high-carb, low-fat, whole-food, plant-based diet. (Say that 10 times fast!) People on this board seem to love protein and fat, and I can understand why they rail against Freelee, but please check out these Doctors for more support of the HCLF way: Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Campbell, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Klaper, Dr. Barnard and Dr. Greger.
These are all medical doctors who have either PROVEN to reverse heart disease, diabetes and other ailments, or in the case of Dr. Greger, review peer-reviewed scientific studies and create short videos about them to inform the public.
Sorry, but I haven't seen any Paleo Doctor who's reversed heart disease and diabetes. I haven't even seen one who's been willing to put up their bloodwork for us to see.
Also, plants are good for us. Period.
With that said, it's also a good idea to count your calories.
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Freelee is a crackhead nutball. Whatever she says to do, do NOT under any circumstances do it.
My personal sense is that low carb is a good way to lose weight if you're not exercising and are generally sedentary (Atkins used to be called The Couch Potato Diet).
High carb - I dunno, maybe if you're running a marathon tomorrow? Otherwise, why?
The truth is what everyone else has said. Count your calories correctly, end of story. If you feel like getting your 1500 a day from bananas, go for it, but fair warning you WILL feel like crap after a short time. And if you eat more than you burn off, no matter what kind of food it is, you will keep it in your body and gain weight.0 -
teaflowermfp wrote: »High fat, low carb diets like the famous Paleo diet...
There is nothing in Paleo that requires - or even suggests - low carb.
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Also, eating 30 bananas a day comes to 3,150 calories, 810g carbs, 420g sugar (yes, almost a pound), 39g protein, and 93g fibre. This yells sugar-high and constipation to me. It is also outrageously ridiculous and I cannot believe someone is actually advocating this
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93g of fiber = constipation? Hmm...
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30 bananas a day? She must have stock in bananas!0
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teaflowermfp wrote: »SORRY GUYS! I meant to say "Keto" instead of "Paleo". And thank you to those of you who are giving me support. The one thing the keto advocaters and freelee both really, really stress is that eating at a calorie deficit is terrible and by following their diets you can eat as much as you want, and you should. It's a bit like fear mongering, they terrify you into thinking a typical western diet is the cause of all your problems. I guess I've been overthinking dieting
Keto advocates do not stress that eating at a deficit is terrible, they simply acknowledge that you can have a deficit without counting, just like you can breathe without counting how much oxygen you inhale. Where exactly are you getting this "keto" information that sounds nothing at all like keto?0 -
Who would put a diabetic on a high carb diet?There is a lot of scientific support out there for a high-carb, low-fat, whole-food, plant-based diet. (Say that 10 times fast!) People on this board seem to love protein and fat, and I can understand why they rail against Freelee, but please check out these Doctors for more support of the HCLF way: Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Campbell, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Klaper, Dr. Barnard and Dr. Greger.
These are all medical doctors who have either PROVEN to reverse heart disease, diabetes and other ailments, or in the case of Dr. Greger, review peer-reviewed scientific studies and create short videos about them to inform the public.
Sorry, but I haven't seen any Paleo Doctor who's reversed heart disease and diabetes. I haven't even seen one who's been willing to put up their bloodwork for us to see.
Also, plants are good for us. Period.
With that said, it's also a good idea to count your calories.
Also PROVEN in all caps is very strong words with no links to back them up.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Who would put a diabetic on a high carb diet?There is a lot of scientific support out there for a high-carb, low-fat, whole-food, plant-based diet. (Say that 10 times fast!) People on this board seem to love protein and fat, and I can understand why they rail against Freelee, but please check out these Doctors for more support of the HCLF way: Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Campbell, Dr. McDougall, Dr. Klaper, Dr. Barnard and Dr. Greger.
These are all medical doctors who have either PROVEN to reverse heart disease, diabetes and other ailments, or in the case of Dr. Greger, review peer-reviewed scientific studies and create short videos about them to inform the public.
Sorry, but I haven't seen any Paleo Doctor who's reversed heart disease and diabetes. I haven't even seen one who's been willing to put up their bloodwork for us to see.
Also, plants are good for us. Period.
With that said, it's also a good idea to count your calories.
Also PROVEN in all caps is very strong words with no links to back them up.
I'll take doctors trained in the late 90's for 500, Alex.0 -
I thought this was a very helpful, and simple, article about nutrition:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/21/upshot/simple-rules-for-healthy-eating.html?ref=health&_r=0&abt=0002&abg=00 -
I've been LCHF (keto) since the beginning of this year but have also coupled that with eating at or below my recommended calories (calorie deficit). I'm not sure who told you that you can eat as much as you want on keto- that just isn't true. While eating a keto diet helps many people feel fuller throught the day you must still have a calorie deficit to lose weight. I would reccomend starting with MFP and reading more about keto or any other add-on plan before starting one. I researched keto for two weeks before starting and it's worked great for me- however we are all different. Talk to your doctor and read up! Good luck!0
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teaflowermfp wrote: »SORRY GUYS! I meant to say "Keto" instead of "Paleo". And thank you to those of you who are giving me support. The one thing the keto advocaters and freelee both really, really stress is that eating at a calorie deficit is terrible and by following their diets you can eat as much as you want, and you should. It's a bit like fear mongering, they terrify you into thinking a typical western diet is the cause of all your problems. I guess I've been overthinking dieting
You get a ton of information from people who have pet diets (or want you to buy their stuff) and it's confusing. I imagine if you decide to buckle down and eat well you may feel like want to make sure you do it right.
I think it's best not to make it too complicated. In your case I really would ask for a referral to a dietician, but MFP is actually pretty decent if you use it right, and then you pay attention to your results and modify.
I know various people who do paleo, and am familiar with keto through this board, and lots of people who do those ways of eating (or less extreme versions of vegan/vegetarian/plant-based) do count calories, because while you often can lose without counting doing those plans, not everyone does, and counting calories is a good way to make sure you can lose weight no matter how you choose to eat. Some people find counting calories burdensome, but not everyone does (I like it, since I like data).
Anyway, anyone who says you can lose without eating at a calorie deficit is wrong or lying, but there are ways to get a calorie deficit that don't involve counting. Also, there are some commonalities that lots of these plans have--eat your veggies, get enough protein (raw isn't so into that, though), limit sweets and highly processed carbs/fatty/fried meats, try to get a lot of whole foods, stuff like that.
As for what to pick (if any--I just eat according to my own ideas and preferences, but try to be generally healthy), it's going to depend on your goals and preferences, whatever works best for your health, and eventually some experimentation to see how you react to different things. I think both vegan (not so much freelee's nonsense) and keto work great for the right people, but neither happens to be what works for me.0 -
I would LOVE to see some high fat low carb doctors who have reversed heart disease? Oh, right. There aren't any.0
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CICO.0
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teaflowermfp wrote: »SORRY GUYS! I meant to say "Keto" instead of "Paleo". And thank you to those of you who are giving me support. The one thing the keto advocaters and freelee both really, really stress is that eating at a calorie deficit is terrible and by following their diets you can eat as much as you want, and you should. It's a bit like fear mongering, they terrify you into thinking a typical western diet is the cause of all your problems. I guess I've been overthinking dieting
Keto advocates do not stress that eating at a deficit is terrible, they simply acknowledge that you can have a deficit without counting, just like you can breathe without counting how much oxygen you inhale. Where exactly are you getting this "keto" information that sounds nothing at all like keto?
This!
And different things will work for different people and at different times. I lost a little bit without counting once I went Keto and then I've started losing again by using MFP. So it isn't either/or.
The advantage I find in Keto is that I'm not at the mercy of sugar cravings anymore. I have kept with the way of eating even when I didn't lose weight because I liked how I felt so much better. Felt like I had quit a drug addiction.
But I have no idea if I can truly say that everyone is adapts to it the same way. I just know I never plan to go back to "balanced" eating at this point, though I will reassess if necessary.
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How I wade through it:
Calorie deficit for weight loss. Period. There are no shortcuts or workarounds or exceptions.
For health, wellbeing, energy, etc: Consider this to have no right answer / everyone is a snowflake in this regard -- similar but not the same. If you think you can improve how you feel by changing your food choices, food timing, etc, give it a try. You can try just eating how you eat and trying to notice things (feeling weak between breakfast and lunch, feeling more satisfied after certain meals than others, etc) and make changes to try to address them. Or you can try following a plan that others have identified is helpful for them -- give it a solid try, maybe a month or so, and then DO make adjustments that you feel you need to make for it to work for you, to really see if it will. Dump it if it doesn't. (Ignore people who say "well then you're NOT a clean eater/paleo/whatever" because who cares? You're just trying to feel better.)
Ignore all claims from those selling/pushing the diet. They will all claim to fix fatigue or whatever. Again, snowflakes. It may or may not be right for your body, your mind, your life, so try things to see how your body responds, do NOT expect to get anything they're pitching. For every person whose fatigue was fixed, there's another who started out fine and ended up fatigued. I promise there's no holy grail, one right answer, One Way of Eating for All to be found.
I also think most people do best without any sort of special roadmap at all, just eating how they eat, and fine tuning that over time.
Learn enough about nutrition or do some research to know whether something is worth trying or not. IMO, Freelee is best avoided. Please get enough fat and protein and eat at a calorie deficit (if you're trying to lose) and do not consume primarily bananas (or primarily any other carb source).0 -
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I would LOVE to see some high fat low carb doctors who have reversed heart disease? Oh, right. There aren't any.
I don't believe in any extreme. Super high fat is probably just as bad as super high carb.
All I know is that since I started eating "NORMAL" servings of fat, protein, fiber, etc...I feel great. About 40 grams of fat, 40-60 grams of protein, and at least 30 grams of fiber...I feel great. My joints feel good, I have energy, I am not starving, I am not always on the verge of a junk food binge.
Although out of a clear blue sky I just remembered I have a box of thin mints in the freezer downstairs, and now I want to eat them ALL. ALL I TELL YOU. (But I shall stay strong.)
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