Diet or recomp question, scooby, etc.
kikichewie
Posts: 276 Member
It has been eight weeks and I have lost 2-3 pounds. I need to decide what to do next and would love some advice...
41 yo female
5'8"
155 pounds today
30% body fat per calipers
Lift 3x per week (StrongCurves beginner)
Yoga 1-2x per week
Mix of cardio machines for approx 3 hours per week
Don't want to give up the cardio bc I am training to run and enjoy it. Intervals and steady.
MFP gave me a goal of 1500 calories based on 1/2 pound a week and sedentary.
Scooby gives me almost 1800 calories for 1 pound a week based on 3-5 hrs moderate exercise per week.
Scooby gives me about 2200 calories to recomp at 155.
I'm obviously eating pretty close to maintenance right now, with my overages on weekends/date nights canceling out my 1500 calories on good days. I have generally been eating back some or all of my cardio calories depending on if I also did weights that day and am famished. I've had several days way over.
So..... What course of action is best to follow? I want more muscle for sure, but I also want to get my body fat down close to 20%. Historically I have always been very thin until age 35 when I turned sedentary and gained some relationship weight, had a baby, crash dieted, etc.
Specifically, if I go with the scooby weight loss numbers (20%), can I still progress with Strong Curves and build muscle? Or should I stick with MFP, get more strict, and try to cut the fat faster while trying to preserve what little muscle I have? Or recomp? I'm scared of eating that much during the week. If I eat less during the week and more on the weekend, will that hurt the muscle building part of things? I am freaking hungry on weights plus cardio days, and I love treating myself those days!
My goal weight has been 130, but I'd be happy heavier if I can get back down to a healthy size 4. I've just always been more thin than muscular.
41 yo female
5'8"
155 pounds today
30% body fat per calipers
Lift 3x per week (StrongCurves beginner)
Yoga 1-2x per week
Mix of cardio machines for approx 3 hours per week
Don't want to give up the cardio bc I am training to run and enjoy it. Intervals and steady.
MFP gave me a goal of 1500 calories based on 1/2 pound a week and sedentary.
Scooby gives me almost 1800 calories for 1 pound a week based on 3-5 hrs moderate exercise per week.
Scooby gives me about 2200 calories to recomp at 155.
I'm obviously eating pretty close to maintenance right now, with my overages on weekends/date nights canceling out my 1500 calories on good days. I have generally been eating back some or all of my cardio calories depending on if I also did weights that day and am famished. I've had several days way over.
So..... What course of action is best to follow? I want more muscle for sure, but I also want to get my body fat down close to 20%. Historically I have always been very thin until age 35 when I turned sedentary and gained some relationship weight, had a baby, crash dieted, etc.
Specifically, if I go with the scooby weight loss numbers (20%), can I still progress with Strong Curves and build muscle? Or should I stick with MFP, get more strict, and try to cut the fat faster while trying to preserve what little muscle I have? Or recomp? I'm scared of eating that much during the week. If I eat less during the week and more on the weekend, will that hurt the muscle building part of things? I am freaking hungry on weights plus cardio days, and I love treating myself those days!
My goal weight has been 130, but I'd be happy heavier if I can get back down to a healthy size 4. I've just always been more thin than muscular.
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Replies
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At your height I would try the Scooby estimate first.0
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Firstly remember all those numbers are estimates.
Secondly when comparing remember to add exercise calories to MFP goals.
If you want to eat more on exercise days then don't do a TDEE method.
If you want to eat more at weekends then work to a weekly not daily goal.
As for the rest would say at your current BF% a small deficit and continue to train hard. You are far too far away from your 20% goal to recomp IMO. You are also too far away from your weight goal.
Zero reason to stop your cardio.
Zero reason to be "scared" of eating at maintenance - hope that's hyperbole and not reality as that's a really unhealthy attitude.
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I would try the scooby estimate (1800 one). That's TDEE so you would not eat back exercise calories. The only issue I see with that is that you said you tend to blow your deficit on the weekend. That could be an issue with such a small deficit to start. I think if you could stick close to your goal most days, the 1800 would be good. If not, I'd say stick with MFP.0
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Building muscle in a deficit is difficult and generally happens with overly fat beginners and returning lifters. My guess is that you are not in the former category, based on your height and weight and measured bf%. (I could be wrong so don't bet the bank on it but that is my hunch.) In my experience, I noticed way more of a difference with Strong Curves while eating at and slightly above maintenance.
How much are you actually eating right now? On an average day, including the exercise calories that you eat is what I mean.0 -
Firstly remember all those numbers are estimates.
Secondly when comparing remember to add exercise calories to MFP goals.
If you want to eat more on exercise days then don't do a TDEE method.
If you want to eat more at weekends then work to a weekly not daily goal.
As for the rest would say at your current BF% a small deficit and continue to train hard. You are far too far away from your 20% goal to recomp IMO. You are also too far away from your weight goal.
Zero reason to stop your cardio.
Zero reason to be "scared" of eating at maintenance - hope that's hyperbole and not reality as that's a really unhealthy attitude.
this was my thought to..
I would suggest getting down to 20% body fat and then do a recomp or bulk ...
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When I first read it, I missed the recomp number.0 -
I would actually suggest the recomp number, based on her height/weight/activity level.0
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If I average out my days across a week or even two, it would be about 1800 calories per day, including the exercise calories I eat back and taking into account the overages. Before I ate back the calories and had a few splurges, I was losing slowly. That was the first/only three pounds. Now I've maintained for at least a month, which makes me think that 1800 (average) is my MFP maintenance if I keep doing what I'm doing. I do know I could tighten up on my logging, but the results do seem to speak for themselves over time.
I feel more firm and can see muscle definition that wasn't there before, but my waist and hip measurements are the same. I still feel very squishy and am not happy in my clothes. I'm fitting into larges and 10+'s. My closet is full of 4s I'd like to get back into!
And if 1800 is indeed my maintenance, I'm already in recomp mode, and that makes me nervous to bump up any further per the Scooby calculations...0 -
I'd go with the 20% deficit to lose fat, lift the weights and get enough protein to preserve your muscle. It's very difficult to gain muscle whilst eating at a deficit. Too much steady state cardio may rob you of precious muscle. 3 x 30 min sessions of cardio per week should be ok. I trained for and completed a half marathon last year and lost muscle and have ended up gaining fat. I'm in a very similar situation to you in terms of age and body fat percentage. If you want to buddy up for support then feel free to friend me x0
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Zero reason to be "scared" of eating at maintenance - hope that's hyperbole and not reality as that's a really unhealthy attitude.
Yes, it's hyperbole. Except that if my maintenance goal is inaccurate, then I could be in a surplus and not realize it for several weeks. And if I need to eat at a deficit, then maintenance would stall my progress.0 -
kikichewie wrote: »If I average out my days across a week or even two, it would be about 1800 calories per day, including the exercise calories I eat back and taking into account the overages. Before I ate back the calories and had a few splurges, I was losing slowly. That was the first/only three pounds. Now I've maintained for at least a month, which makes me think that 1800 (average) is my MFP maintenance if I keep doing what I'm doing. I do know I could tighten up on my logging, but the results do seem to speak for themselves over time.
I feel more firm and can see muscle definition that wasn't there before, but my waist and hip measurements are the same. I still feel very squishy and am not happy in my clothes. I'm fitting into larges and 10+'s. My closet is full of 4s I'd like to get back into!
And if 1800 is indeed my maintenance, I'm already in recomp mode, and that makes me nervous to bump up any further per the Scooby calculations...
Go by your actual results not a calculator.
The calories you maintain on are your maintenance calories not what some internet site estimates.
Scooby can't tell how accurate your food or exercise logging is but your bathroom scales can!0 -
Okay, so what I'm getting so far is I need a slight deficit.
To do list:
Switch to 1800 cals per day average for the week
Don't eat back exercise calories
Lift heavy as I can, progress
Be patient
Tighten up logging and compare results at the end of the month
Now.... Cardio.... Without cardio do I need to adjust my Scooby calculations downward? I said 3-5 hours of moderate exercise, but that included cardio several times a week.
Part of the reason I do as much cardio as I do is to kill time at the gym so my daughter can play at the daycare, which she loves and keeps me sane. So would it be reasonable to replace some of the cardio with more weights, such as accessory lifts? I'd have to figure out how to adjust my SC workouts to avoid overtraining, but is it a decent idea in general? (sometimes I get to go twice a day for an hour each time)
Thanks for everyone's advice so far!0 -
If it were me I'd keep the cardio and eat more. You could add bicep curls or dips or something like calf raises if you want but I wouldn't get carried away with it while in a deficit on SC. Are you doing the 4th workout of the week? If not, you could add that in place of some of your cardio.0
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I haven't been doing SC four times a week in order to fit in extra cardio and coordinate with the gym's yoga class schedule. I'm really starting to feel hungry and rebel on the low 1500 calorie days when I haven't had cardio calories to eat back. I will take another look at the schedule and see if I can make that change.0
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I would actually suggest the recomp number, based on her height/weight/activity level.
not at 30% body fat ....
SJ may slightly disagree with me on this, but recomp is a slow process and I don't see how OP is going to get to 20% body fat doing a recomp. That would take like five years, maybe more...0 -
Another question....
If you're lifting with a moderate deficit, doesn't that end up looking an awful lot like recomp? If I'm perfect for four weeks and the scale doesn't move, does that mean I'd have to drop my calories further bc I've been at maintenance/recomp and not at a deficit?
(And I'm off to yoga, but looking forward to your answers.)0 -
I would actually suggest the recomp number, based on her height/weight/activity level.
not at 30% body fat ....
SJ may slightly disagree with me on this, but recomp is a slow process and I don't see how OP is going to get to 20% body fat doing a recomp. That would take like five years, maybe more...
I'm focused less on the 20% bf goal and more on the size 4 goal. I have serious doubts that she needs to be 20% body fat to be a size 4. I'm...definitely not 20% bf (probably 26-28ish) and getting into size 6 right now. It doesn't take 6-8% to get down a dress size. I've gone down 3 sizes within the last 10 pounds.
Also, with the activity level she has listed, I have my doubts about 2200 being true maintenance. If it is, I'd rather see her sit there and add some muscle to try to up her TDEE a bit and then eventually cut some calories to lose more fat.0 -
I would actually suggest the recomp number, based on her height/weight/activity level.
not at 30% body fat ....
SJ may slightly disagree with me on this, but recomp is a slow process and I don't see how OP is going to get to 20% body fat doing a recomp. That would take like five years, maybe more...
I'm focused less on the 20% bf goal and more on the size 4 goal. I have serious doubts that she needs to be 20% body fat to be a size 4. I'm...definitely not 20% bf (probably 26-28ish) and getting into size 6 right now. It doesn't take 6-8% to get down a dress size. I've gone down 3 sizes within the last 10 pounds.
Also, with the activity level she has listed, I have my doubts about 2200 being true maintenance. If it is, I'd rather see her sit there and add some muscle to try to up her TDEE a bit and then eventually cut some calories to lose more fat.
OK - I read her OP as wanting to lose body fat and then recomp or build muscle. IF that is her goal, then she should focus on getting body fat number down, and then doing a bulk or recomp...
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kikichewie wrote: »Another question....
If you're lifting with a moderate deficit, doesn't that end up looking an awful lot like recomp? If I'm perfect for four weeks and the scale doesn't move, does that mean I'd have to drop my calories further bc I've been at maintenance/recomp and not at a deficit?
(And I'm off to yoga, but looking forward to your answers.)
It's likely, yes. I agree with the other posters who say a recomp would not be a ideal for you at this point. And reading more of your posts, I do not think you should set your calories at 1800. You said that is what you're averaging now, so with your high calorie weekend days, I don't think that would be a good idea. It sounds like if you did that, you'd be at 1800 most days, and then over on some days.
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kikichewie wrote: »Another question....
If you're lifting with a moderate deficit, doesn't that end up looking an awful lot like recomp? If I'm perfect for four weeks and the scale doesn't move, does that mean I'd have to drop my calories further bc I've been at maintenance/recomp and not at a deficit?
(And I'm off to yoga, but looking forward to your answers.)
how moderate of a deficit are we talking?
I am going to say no, because a recomp is where you eat at maintenance level and lose a little bit of body fat and add a little bit of muscle.....
If you are lifting and not losing, then you are eating at maintenance and are not in a deficit...
do you use a food scale?
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You mentioned that you could tighten up on logging. I'd address that first because if you're average is coming out to 1800 a day and you're maintaining on that with multiple cardio/lifts a week at your current height/weight, I'd venture a guess that you may be eating more than you think. 1800 have you at a deficit your the exercise you're doing and your current stats (scooby shows that even though it is just an estimate).
I agree with those saying 30% is too high for a recomp. It's a very long process and won't get you to where you want to be in a reasonable time frame.
I'd would cut at 20% deficit. Keep your cardio. You like it and it'll help with your deficit. Keep your lifting as well to maintain muscle.
I've been on strong curves or 6 months (beginner program and just about to finish up the advanced program). I won't lie...I probably have the benefit of youth on my side and a decent muscle base to begin with. Full disclosure
but a big part of what I feel my success has been is really pushing myself on progressive lifting. Went from body weight hip thrusts to doing 200 pounds.
But strong curves has REALLY helped me maintain my muscle. Excluding vacations, I've been at a deficit the whole time. I never was over a 20% deficit. 10% has been the latter few months. I started off doing 4 days a week of SC but then I started running 3 days a week and needed a rest day. So I switched to 3 days running 3 days lifting. Maybe you should try that. No reason to get rid of cardio. It's not going to hurt your retention of muscle mass if you're truly challenging yourself on lifts. You can do both successfully. Also realize that you're just maintaining muscle right now in the deficit. That's the goal. Strength is what you're gaining. My deficit find start affecting my lifts until recently when I started adding more cardio for training purposes and I've fixed that issue with more food.0 -
kikichewie wrote: »Another question....
If you're lifting with a moderate deficit, doesn't that end up looking an awful lot like recomp? If I'm perfect for four weeks and the scale doesn't move, does that mean I'd have to drop my calories further bc I've been at maintenance/recomp and not at a deficit?
(And I'm off to yoga, but looking forward to your answers.)
Recomp is really the concurrent loss of fat and gain of muscle rather than "maintenance".
So really it's happening in a small range either side of perfect maintenance. That range will be different for different people depending on many different factors.
What myself and ndj1979 are saying that with 30%BF you have a long way to go. Undoubtably quickest way to reduce that BF% is a deficit to lose weight - whilst trying your best to maintain existing muscle mass.
The trade off of speed is that you are far more likely to lose muscle mass the higher the deficit and closer to goal weight. For me (bearing in mind I've been training for decades and I'm elderly!) even a 1lb a week deficit over an extended period results in some loss of LBM. At 1lb a month deficit I can lose fat and gain muscle.
Speed of loss is a very personal thing and depends how happy you feel at your current weight.0 -
Okay, this is all really great feedback, thanks.
So first thing is setting the goal to cut.... Got it.
Tighten up logging. (I'm a perfectionist with weighing except when I'm not, so maybe I'm averaging more than 1800.)
Look at tweaking my weekly calories so it does average 1800, but lower during the week and higher on the weekend. No eating back calories. So like 1500 Mon-Thurs and 2200 Fri-Sun.
Add back the fourth SC workout. Keep the cardio.
See what happens in four weeks. If I'm not down by at least 2 pounds, ideally four, reassess calories and log. If everything there is accurate and I'm not losing, I'll have to cut more calories. Which I definitely do not want to do.0 -
kikichewie wrote: »Okay, this is all really great feedback, thanks.
So first thing is setting the goal to cut.... Got it.
Tighten up logging. (I'm a perfectionist with weighing except when I'm not, so maybe I'm averaging more than 1800.)
Look at tweaking my weekly calories so it does average 1800, but lower during the week and higher on the weekend. No eating back calories. So like 1500 Mon-Thurs and 2200 Fri-Sun.
Add back the fourth SC workout. Keep the cardio.
See what happens in four weeks. If I'm not down by at least 2 pounds, ideally four, reassess calories and log. If everything there is accurate and I'm not losing, I'll have to cut more calories. Which I definitely do not want to do.
I also like to go over on weekends....like waaay over. I'm currently maintaining. I average anywhere from 1300-1500 during weekdays (sometimes less), and then around 3000 or so on weekends. I like using my calorie cycling method, it lets me keep my very indulgent days and maintain my weight. It sounds like the same idea would work for you, as well.0 -
So is recomp still out of the question at 26% bf? What would be the recommended percentage for a woman to start recomping?0
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I follow the guidelines in this article, which allows for bulking at a higher bf%.
http://strengthunbound.com/bulking-complete-guide-for-beginners/0 -
I'm interested in starting to do a recomp or bulk now only because I've been dieting since November and I feel like I've hit a wall over the last month but I'm only at around 26% so I can't see myself getting down to 23% for another 6 months or something and I can't imagine dieting that long is good for you....0
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