muscle versus fat
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Initial strength gains are not usually due to muscle mass gain but actually the activation of more muscle fibers0
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misscaligreen wrote: »I have a question and probably a dumb one but I'm going to ask it anyways because even smart questions negative feedback lol so here goes.....if you were eating and maintaining a calorie deficit and losing weight regularly without any exercise is it possible to build muscle or are you saying that in order to build muscle you have to be eating a surplus of calories? I I'm very confused after reading all the posts. I have lost about 60 pounds through diet alone and I am planning to start exercising at some point in the near future to maintain a large deficit so that the weight loss does not stop or slow down I have a considerable amount to lose still. I would like to do strength training because it's my understanding that the effects of strength training workout outlast cardio workouts. any info would be helpful thanks in advance
When you lose weight without exercise, or more correctly resistance training, you also will lose muscle mass and not just fat. The muscle gains they are discussing in this thread are often called "newbie gains" and occur in people that have a significant amount of weight to lose and have been extremely sedentary. The reason strength training is recommended even when you are eating at a deficit is to try to keep as much muscle mass or lean body mass as possible because the more lean body mass you have the higher your resting metabolism will be. It is very difficult to rebuild lost muscle mass, especially for women.
Hope this makes sense.
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Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »Wow! Did not expect to get railroaded here. I am on a 1500 calorie diet. I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab. I have been under my calorie goal everyday I have been logging except one. My problem seems to be coming from carbs. Just got percentages of carbs, fats, and proteins 2 weeks ago. After looking back, I think that is what's wrong.
How do you measure/log your food? Do you own a food scale?
And were you at 1500 cals per week since Feb? And how tall are you and if it's rehab what sort of injury? Are you on medication? And how "brisk" is your walking? And do you eat those cals back? It all helps to get a better picture
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Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.
Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it and store any extra. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.
So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. So to the extent that fat is also being consumed, it will be stored until energy needed. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/0 -
Can someone explain the jail thing to me? What's that about?atypicalsmith wrote: »
Sorry to hijack, I just keep seeing people in jail and don't know what it means. Always the same people though LOL
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Not tracking properly can also be known as estimating. If she's estimating 1,800 calories a day with no results, what would happen if she estimates 1,400 calories a day??Furrycatpig wrote: »If you're over weight, and in a calorie deficit(losing weight) your muscle mass won't go UP. If you're gaining and in a calorie deficit, it's due to water weight.
You said you have been trying for a while now? Well as i originally said, if you're not losing you're not in a calorie deficit, so lower your calories.
Lower her cals? We don't know if she's tracking her current cals properly yet.
so take inaccurate information and add in more inaccurate information ....great recommendation...
OP - get a food scale and get more precise with your logging. I would also suggest making sure you are logging everything you eat.0 -
I don't understand how some of you stated that it cannot be muscle gains... If your body has the extra fat that can be burn... You body can use that energy to build muscle
does not work that way ..
your body is not efficient to take excess fat and use that energy to convert it to muscle as your body has to prioritize other functions.
Also, if OP is lifting heavy she may get some newbie gains, but those will eventually peter out...
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misscaligreen wrote: »I have a question and probably a dumb one but I'm going to ask it anyways because even smart questions negative feedback lol so here goes.....if you were eating and maintaining a calorie deficit and losing weight regularly without any exercise is it possible to build muscle or are you saying that in order to build muscle you have to be eating a surplus of calories? I I'm very confused after reading all the posts. I have lost about 60 pounds through diet alone and I am planning to start exercising at some point in the near future to maintain a large deficit so that the weight loss does not stop or slow down I have a considerable amount to lose still. I would like to do strength training because it's my understanding that the effects of strength training workout outlast cardio workouts. any info would be helpful thanks in advance
if you are not on a progressive lifting program or exercising you will not gain muscle.0 -
Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.
Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if stores already full and higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.
So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/
What you're saying is a different subject. It's about oxidation. There is a priority in oxidation. But that has nothing to do with storage. It goes like this for carbs turning in to fat.
Glucose(carbs) -> Pyruvate -> Acetyl CoA -> Fatty acids
I provided a source. It says there is a relationship between oxidation priority and storage. It also says the pathway from glucose to fat is extremely infrequent in practical, realistic terms, to the point of immateriality.0 -
Doesn't sound like that's the case:I have been doing cardiac rehab 3 times a week since February 2015 and I walk for an hour on all the other days not in rehab.
You're not building ANY muscle on that.
You're either miscalculating your calories in or out (or probably a combination of both).0 -
Along the same lines as "Fat cannot turn into muscle".... I sometimes see the comment "Your body turns excess carbs into fat." This is also untrue, technically. Excess carbs do not get stored as fat. The body prioritizes energy oxidation source based roughly on storage ability.
Alcohol- no ability to store it- body will prioritize alcohol metabolism until it is all gone.
Protein- not much amino acid storage ability- body will use what it can and metabolize the rest (up to half intake) for energy.
Carb- pretty good glycogen storage ability- if stores already full and higher priority sources not available, the body will metabolize it. Generally speaking in a normal person, glycogen storage is about one day's worth of carb intake.
Fat- EXCELLENT, virtually unlimited, storage ability- fat can/will be stored until other sources run out.
So, to be perhaps overly precise, carbs do not get stored as fat. When carbs show up, and if there is no alcohol or protein available, the body will prioritize carb metabolism over fat metabolism. Before someone asks, I do not know what happens if someone has a zero fat diet but eats in a surplus. I think that is rather unlikely. Maybe their liver blows up. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/nutrient-intake-nutrient-storage-and-nutrient-oxidation.html/
What you're saying is a different subject. It's about oxidation. There is a priority in oxidation. But that has nothing to do with storage. It goes like this for carbs turning in to fat.
Glucose(carbs) -> Pyruvate -> Acetyl CoA -> Fatty acids
An extremely inefficient process in humans that only occurs after massive carbohydrate overfeeding.
Only when CHO energy intake exceeds TEE does DNL in liver or adipose tissue contribute significantly to the whole-body energy economy. It is concluded that DNL is not the pathway of first resort for added dietary CHO, in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981
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atypicalsmith wrote: »Furrycatpig wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »Does anyone know how long my weight will go up because of muscle before I stay losing? It is really discouraging to be working so hard and trying to eat right and still not losing weight.
It's a myth that you gain weight with muscles. Stop overeating and exercise more, and it will come off.
A myth? No, you can gain weight from new muscle. But you need to be eating a calorie surplus, and weight training to gain muscle.
Yes you need to be lifting about four hours a day and eating 5,000 calories. That is NOT what the OP was talking about.
lulz0 -
Are you tracking and accurately weighing everything? If I had to guess, you are likely under estimating the amount of food you are eating, and over estimating the calories you are burning. Or eating back too many of the over estimated burned calories.
How long have you been at this? You wouldn't be gaining muscle at a higher rate than losing fat if you are eating at a deficit.
It's VERY hard to eyeball portions. If you really are weighing and tracking everything honestly, talk to your doctor. There may be something going on.
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what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do? 0
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lisahenneberry83 wrote: »what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do?
Wow.0 -
lisahenneberry83 wrote: »what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do?
*sigh*...
so you do KETO for 2-3 hours and then what?
do you have before and after DEXA scan results to show how much body fat you lost and how much LBM you gained?
too many carbs is not a problem, unless you have a medical condition or you eat so many carbs you are in a calorie surplus..
is there any other bro science you would like to include?
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lisahenneberry83 wrote: »what's your diet like? Muscle weighs more than fat. If you have alot to lose then it will take longer. Are you getting enough fats and protein?? To many carbs can be a problem. Try keeping your carb intake under 30 grams a day for 6 days then on your 7th day for dinner eat carbs and have dessert. Then the next day start over. Track what your eating and how much. I am currently doing CNS ( carb Nite solution) I have been doing this for several months and it's working! I am strictly ketogenic for the first 2-3 hours of my day. I have lost body fat and gained muscle. It's been awesome! Coffee, heavy whipping cream and coconut oil have been my best friend! What type of exercise do you do?
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this thread...lulz.0
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OP, buy a food scale. Weigh and log everything you eat. Keep track for 6 weeks. Continue on your exercise. In six weeks, let us know what you learned.0
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wow...All I did was offer my opinion. Just because some of you don't agree with it you think it's ok to bully? I have thick skin but that was really uncalled for. And yes for myself to many carbs are a problem.0
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lisahenneberry83 wrote: »wow...All I did was offer my opinion. Just because some of you don't agree with it you think it's ok to bully? I have thick skin but that was really uncalled for. And yes for myself to many carbs are a problem.
But...science.0 -
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lisahenneberry83 wrote: »wow...All I did was offer my opinion. Just because some of you don't agree with it you think it's ok to bully? I have thick skin but that was really uncalled for. And yes for myself to many carbs are a problem.
It wasn't phrased like an opinion: it was phrased as a series of facts, but there isn't very much (if anything) to support them.0 -
lisahenneberry83 wrote: »wow...All I did was offer my opinion. Just because some of you don't agree with it you think it's ok to bully? I have thick skin but that was really uncalled for. And yes for myself to many carbs are a problem.
Opinions are fine to have...but when they're factually incorrect (especially on this site) they're going to be called out.
And I don't think "bully" means what you think it means. Disagreement =/= bullying.0
This discussion has been closed.
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