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When should a school intervene? Never? (school lunch issue)

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  • 7elizamae
    7elizamae Posts: 758 Member
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    A second grader drinking an energy drink??! Like red bull??!

    Yes.
  • 7elizamae
    7elizamae Posts: 758 Member
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    Mr_Knight wrote: »
    How exactly would you "intervene"?
    Well, I could contact her mom and express my concern. But I haven't and don't intend to. I wanted to hear what other folks thought.

    Believe me, I wish the child had a better breakfast.
  • 7elizamae
    7elizamae Posts: 758 Member
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    Don't do it. And don't judge. At least this kid has food. She probably packs her own food, from what is in the home. I doubt anyone packs her lunch, or even pays much attention to her.

    Some kids just survive childhood.

    You hit the nail on the head. This little one is getting herself out the door in the morning -- her mom works nights and isn't up in the morning. She likes her breakfast the way it is and isn't on time for the school breakfast.

    So, I just welcome her to class and carry on. She does have lunch at school. And she's doing fine in class. :) She's a gem.

    I don't think it's the school's place to intervene on home nutrition. I just wondered what everyone thought since it's been in the news this week.
  • 7elizamae
    7elizamae Posts: 758 Member
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    I don't know about your state, but in NY you are required to report neglect. Giving a second grader an energy drink isn't just neglect, it probably falls under child endangerment as well. Energy drinks have been tied to several adolescent and teen deaths in the last 5 years.

    "NCANDS defines neglect as “a type of maltreatment that refers to the failure by the caregiver to provide needed, age-appropriate care although financially able to do so or offered financial or other means to do so” (USDHHS, 2007). Neglect is usually typified by an ongoing pattern of inadequate care and is readily observed by individuals in close contact with the child. Physicians, nurses, day care personnel, relatives and neighbors are frequently the ones to suspect and report neglect in infants, toddlers and preschoolaged children. Once children are in school, school personnel often notice indicators of child neglect such as poor hygiene, poor weight gain, inadequate medical care or frequent absences from school."

    http://www.americanhumane.org/children/stop-child-abuse/fact-sheets/child-neglect.html

    You're asking because your gut says you should say something. Teacher to teacher, go with your gut. Ignore the people who say your job is just to teach. They don't know the laws, and they don't have the training.

    The nurse and principal know. This little one is doing okay at school and we would not report this as endangerment.
  • RodaRose
    RodaRose Posts: 9,562 Member
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    If the nurse and principal know, it is out of your hands. Good luck to the kid. I am glad to hear that she is doing fine in the class.
  • JPW1990
    JPW1990 Posts: 2,424 Member
    edited May 2015
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    I don't know about your state, but in NY you are required to report neglect. Giving a second grader an energy drink isn't just neglect, it probably falls under child endangerment as well. Energy drinks have been tied to several adolescent and teen deaths in the last 5 years.

    "NCANDS defines neglect as “a type of maltreatment that refers to the failure by the caregiver to provide needed, age-appropriate care although financially able to do so or offered financial or other means to do so” (USDHHS, 2007). Neglect is usually typified by an ongoing pattern of inadequate care and is readily observed by individuals in close contact with the child. Physicians, nurses, day care personnel, relatives and neighbors are frequently the ones to suspect and report neglect in infants, toddlers and preschoolaged children. Once children are in school, school personnel often notice indicators of child neglect such as poor hygiene, poor weight gain, inadequate medical care or frequent absences from school."

    http://www.americanhumane.org/children/stop-child-abuse/fact-sheets/child-neglect.html

    You're asking because your gut says you should say something. Teacher to teacher, go with your gut. Ignore the people who say your job is just to teach. They don't know the laws, and they don't have the training.

    I find it interesting that most of the answers are avoiding that detail like the plague. Everyone is all about the Doritos, and nobody seems to be worried that Red Bull is in an 8 year old's hands.

    After consuming a single retail unit, 70% of the children and 40% of the teenagers who consumed caffeine were estimated to have exceeded the adverse-effect level of 3 mg/kg body weight per day beyond their baseline dietary exposure.

    The report concludes: On the basis of this review, we conclude that (1) energy drinks have no therapeutic benefit, and both the known and unknown pharmacology of various ingredients, combined with reports of toxicity, suggest that these drinks may put some children at risk for serious adverse health effects
  • LoupGarouTFTs
    LoupGarouTFTs Posts: 916 Member
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    JPW1990 wrote: »
    I don't know about your state, but in NY you are required to report neglect. Giving a second grader an energy drink isn't just neglect, it probably falls under child endangerment as well. Energy drinks have been tied to several adolescent and teen deaths in the last 5 years.

    "NCANDS defines neglect as “a type of maltreatment that refers to the failure by the caregiver to provide needed, age-appropriate care although financially able to do so or offered financial or other means to do so” (USDHHS, 2007). Neglect is usually typified by an ongoing pattern of inadequate care and is readily observed by individuals in close contact with the child. Physicians, nurses, day care personnel, relatives and neighbors are frequently the ones to suspect and report neglect in infants, toddlers and preschoolaged children. Once children are in school, school personnel often notice indicators of child neglect such as poor hygiene, poor weight gain, inadequate medical care or frequent absences from school."

    http://www.americanhumane.org/children/stop-child-abuse/fact-sheets/child-neglect.html

    You're asking because your gut says you should say something. Teacher to teacher, go with your gut. Ignore the people who say your job is just to teach. They don't know the laws, and they don't have the training.

    I find it interesting that most of the answers are avoiding that detail like the plague. Everyone is all about the Doritos, and nobody seems to be worried that Red Bull is in an 8 year old's hands.

    After consuming a single retail unit, 70% of the children and 40% of the teenagers who consumed caffeine were estimated to have exceeded the adverse-effect level of 3 mg/kg body weight per day beyond their baseline dietary exposure.

    The report concludes: On the basis of this review, we conclude that (1) energy drinks have no therapeutic benefit, and both the known and unknown pharmacology of various ingredients, combined with reports of toxicity, suggest that these drinks may put some children at risk for serious adverse health effects

    Still not your business.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,741 Member
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    7elizamae wrote: »
    Don't do it. And don't judge. At least this kid has food. She probably packs her own food, from what is in the home. I doubt anyone packs her lunch, or even pays much attention to her.

    Some kids just survive childhood.

    You hit the nail on the head. This little one is getting herself out the door in the morning -- her mom works nights and isn't up in the morning. She likes her breakfast the way it is and isn't on time for the school breakfast.

    So, I just welcome her to class and carry on. She does have lunch at school. And she's doing fine in class. :) She's a gem.

    I don't think it's the school's place to intervene on home nutrition. I just wondered what everyone thought since it's been in the news this week.
    A quick note could be: If you're not aware, so and so has been having Doritos and Red Bull for breakfast. I just want to verify if this is okay with you.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,741 Member
    edited May 2015
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    7elizamae wrote: »
    Don't do it. And don't judge. At least this kid has food. She probably packs her own food, from what is in the home. I doubt anyone packs her lunch, or even pays much attention to her.

    Some kids just survive childhood.

    You hit the nail on the head. This little one is getting herself out the door in the morning -- her mom works nights and isn't up in the morning. She likes her breakfast the way it is and isn't on time for the school breakfast.

    So, I just welcome her to class and carry on. She does have lunch at school. And she's doing fine in class. :) She's a gem.

    I don't think it's the school's place to intervene on home nutrition. I just wondered what everyone thought since it's been in the news this week.
    A quick note could be: If you're not aware, so and so has been having Doritos and Red Bull for breakfast. I just want to verify if this is okay with you.
    If answer is no, then it will be taken care of. If answer is yes, then it's taken care of.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • mfp2014mfp
    mfp2014mfp Posts: 689 Member
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    God I hope this post was just to look at people's responses and not to actually look for advice. The only thing any teacher should do would be dictated by that particular schools rules and regulations. As for all the people freaking out about her food, for goodness sake get some perspective! Lots of lazy outrage here as per usual.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    Personally I'd send a note first highlighting that she's doing well, is a gem, and mentioning your concern.

    I get notes from the teachers all the time (we have a system called "cahier de correspondance", in France) which is intended to keep channels open. Mostly I get notes about "talking in class", "late hw" when it happens. I have had an ongoing discussion about one daughter and her food pickiness. It's ok when it isn't set up as a conflict between parents and outsiders.

    Takes a village ....

    I'd rather have teachers engaged in children's welfare through open discussion with parents than curriculum-only or cps calling. IMHO, the role of public education isn't just teaching a skill base but part of a Social Contract.
  • bunsen_honeydew
    bunsen_honeydew Posts: 230 Member
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    Is it causing behavioural problems ?
  • Sarasmaintaining
    Sarasmaintaining Posts: 1,027 Member
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    7elizamae wrote: »
    I have a student (2nd grader) who usually comes to school eating from a gigantic bag of Doritos and drinking a brightly colored energy drink. That's her breakfast. Sometimes she has Cheetos instead.

    I don't intervene. Would you?

    Nope, not your place.
  • JPW1990
    JPW1990 Posts: 2,424 Member
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    JPW1990 wrote: »
    I don't know about your state, but in NY you are required to report neglect. Giving a second grader an energy drink isn't just neglect, it probably falls under child endangerment as well. Energy drinks have been tied to several adolescent and teen deaths in the last 5 years.

    "NCANDS defines neglect as “a type of maltreatment that refers to the failure by the caregiver to provide needed, age-appropriate care although financially able to do so or offered financial or other means to do so” (USDHHS, 2007). Neglect is usually typified by an ongoing pattern of inadequate care and is readily observed by individuals in close contact with the child. Physicians, nurses, day care personnel, relatives and neighbors are frequently the ones to suspect and report neglect in infants, toddlers and preschoolaged children. Once children are in school, school personnel often notice indicators of child neglect such as poor hygiene, poor weight gain, inadequate medical care or frequent absences from school."

    http://www.americanhumane.org/children/stop-child-abuse/fact-sheets/child-neglect.html

    You're asking because your gut says you should say something. Teacher to teacher, go with your gut. Ignore the people who say your job is just to teach. They don't know the laws, and they don't have the training.

    I find it interesting that most of the answers are avoiding that detail like the plague. Everyone is all about the Doritos, and nobody seems to be worried that Red Bull is in an 8 year old's hands.

    After consuming a single retail unit, 70% of the children and 40% of the teenagers who consumed caffeine were estimated to have exceeded the adverse-effect level of 3 mg/kg body weight per day beyond their baseline dietary exposure.

    The report concludes: On the basis of this review, we conclude that (1) energy drinks have no therapeutic benefit, and both the known and unknown pharmacology of various ingredients, combined with reports of toxicity, suggest that these drinks may put some children at risk for serious adverse health effects

    Still not your business.

    A teacher has a different legal level of responsibility than a random stranger.
  • kramrn77
    kramrn77 Posts: 375 Member
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    Yes, teachers are mandatory reporters. However, Doritos isn't exactly abuse. And it isn't the teacher's job to raise someone else's kids. Nor do you really know what's going on in the kid's family or home. So if you don't want her to have energy drinks, ask the school to make a policy. And if you want the government to stop subsidizing junk food and make healthy food affordable, stop voting for people who are making the policies. Hell, more acutely, START voting! Either way, it isn't appropriate to interfere with the child just because you are holier then thou. CPS is massively underfunded and overworked. I've worked with both CPS and APS extensively in my years as a nurse and they don't have time to be running down a mother because of Doritos for breakfast.
  • slaite1
    slaite1 Posts: 1,307 Member
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    rainbowbow wrote: »
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.


    Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.

    I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".

    If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.

    **Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.

    Wouldn't you get sued and fired for that nowadays? Not sure if you can do much but try to educate the class as a whole on eating healthier.

    I don't know. I personally think we are way too damn sensitive on the subject regarding weight. If you are abusing your child (I.E. not proving them with sustenance) i'd find it my moral obligation to do so.

    I guess it's a great thing i'm not a teacher though. Because the one thing i can't stand is a fat-f%%% parent who is pushing that lifestyle/deathstyle onto their children.


    I've read a lot of awful viewpoints on MFP-but this one is the worst. It really is a good thing you're not a teacher-Jeez.
  • LoupGarouTFTs
    LoupGarouTFTs Posts: 916 Member
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    JPW1990 wrote: »
    JPW1990 wrote: »
    I don't know about your state, but in NY you are required to report neglect. Giving a second grader an energy drink isn't just neglect, it probably falls under child endangerment as well. Energy drinks have been tied to several adolescent and teen deaths in the last 5 years.

    "NCANDS defines neglect as “a type of maltreatment that refers to the failure by the caregiver to provide needed, age-appropriate care although financially able to do so or offered financial or other means to do so” (USDHHS, 2007). Neglect is usually typified by an ongoing pattern of inadequate care and is readily observed by individuals in close contact with the child. Physicians, nurses, day care personnel, relatives and neighbors are frequently the ones to suspect and report neglect in infants, toddlers and preschoolaged children. Once children are in school, school personnel often notice indicators of child neglect such as poor hygiene, poor weight gain, inadequate medical care or frequent absences from school."

    http://www.americanhumane.org/children/stop-child-abuse/fact-sheets/child-neglect.html

    You're asking because your gut says you should say something. Teacher to teacher, go with your gut. Ignore the people who say your job is just to teach. They don't know the laws, and they don't have the training.

    I find it interesting that most of the answers are avoiding that detail like the plague. Everyone is all about the Doritos, and nobody seems to be worried that Red Bull is in an 8 year old's hands.

    After consuming a single retail unit, 70% of the children and 40% of the teenagers who consumed caffeine were estimated to have exceeded the adverse-effect level of 3 mg/kg body weight per day beyond their baseline dietary exposure.

    The report concludes: On the basis of this review, we conclude that (1) energy drinks have no therapeutic benefit, and both the known and unknown pharmacology of various ingredients, combined with reports of toxicity, suggest that these drinks may put some children at risk for serious adverse health effects

    Still not your business.

    A teacher has a different legal level of responsibility than a random stranger.

    I will grant you that. But the child is not being abused or neglected, apparently, or being treated in such a way that would cause her immediate harm. There are probably plenty of children who actually have a need for teacher intervention in their lives. Passing judgment on what the child is eating for breakfast and intervening in that consumption goes beyond the scope of that responsibility. At least the child is coming to school and is eating. There are a lot of children who don't even manage those two things.

  • kristydi
    kristydi Posts: 781 Member
    edited May 2015
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    I was a teacher when energy drinks like red bull and monster first started getting popular. There started to be an trend of kids, elementary and middle school, bringing them for lunch and breakfast. The school sent home a note politely telling parents we preferred they not send these drinks to school and explaining why (it was a school for kids with learning disabilities and many had attention issues anyway and the drinks were not helping) and providing suggestions for alternatives.

    Many parents stopped sending them, some didn't.

  • avskk
    avskk Posts: 1,789 Member
    edited May 2015
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    As a parent and a former childcare provider, I like @ninerbuff's idea to send a quick note that says, "If you're not aware, Kid is having chips and Red Bull every morning for breakfast. I know you're a busy family with an unusual schedule and I just wanted to be sure this was okay with you." Then leave it alone.
  • Sarasmaintaining
    Sarasmaintaining Posts: 1,027 Member
    edited May 2015
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    avskk wrote: »
    As a parent and a former childcare provider, I like @ninerbuff's idea to send a quick note that says, "If you're not aware, Kid is having chips and Red Bull every morning for breakfast. I know you're a busy family with an unusual schedule and I just wanted to be sure this was okay with you." Then leave it alone.

    Thing is-if a teacher decides to do this without first running it by the school admin then it could become a big mess. Just look what happened with the whole Oreo thing last week. I doubt that teacher will still have a job after it's all sorted out. Teachers can't just decide to impose their ideas of what's 'good' or 'bad' and try to enforce them on a kid/parent, if there's no school policy in place to support their stance. There's steps that need to be followed, and the first step would be for the OP/teacher to talk to her boss.