When should a school intervene? Never? (school lunch issue)
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rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job would be to teach the curriculum you're hired to teach.
If it's a school with formal policies, then that would be different.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job would be to teach the curriculum you're hired to teach.
If it's a school with formal policies, then that would be different.
Good. Then we can have a bunch of well-educated 30 year olds who die from their morbid obesity.0 -
novasunflower wrote: »I would call CPS...
Society has enough issues without that kind of passive-aggressive posturing.
If you don't have the courage to say it directly to the parents, you have no business sending the authorities after them.
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rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job is to teach. Taking away the child's food and passing judgment on his/her family's lifestyle is beyond the scope of your job description.
I have to wonder though, when 2/3rds of society is overweight and the future generations are now the first that will NOT outlive their parents/ancestors when it WILL be time to step in and make it everyone's business.
When young children are now having to deal with lifelong diabetes, heart problems, the whole slew of health issues caused by obesity, and are having to undergo life-threatening surgeries to shrink their stomaches when society will decide as a whole that this detached, disinterested, not-my-job, only care about myself and screw everyone else- mentality will have to end.
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same.
Any teacher who calls a person a "POS parent" because his or her child is eating Doritos needs to take a big step back and remove him- or herself from the situation. Objectivity has long since flown out the window and the teacher is at risk of creating a greater problem. A bag of Doritos is not the same thing as a beating or sexual assault--that's just a ridiculously flawed argument that is so full of fallacies I don't know where to begin.
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novasunflower wrote: »I would call CPS...
Society has enough issues without that kind of passive-aggressive posturing.
If you don't have the courage to say it directly to the parents, you have no business sending the authorities after them.
So it's not our problem we should just "teach". But wait, "you have no right to complain unless you do so to the parents directly".
Glad you always come on threads to play devil's advocate.
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rainbowbow wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job would be to teach the curriculum you're hired to teach.
If it's a school with formal policies, then that would be different.
Good. Then we can have a bunch of well-educated 30 year olds who die from their morbid obesity.
Right. Because that's a typical outcome when a kid brings a bag of dorritos to school.
If there's an issue, you talk directly with the parents. If it's not worth talking to the parents about, it's not really that important to you, so there is no justification to interfere with the child.0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job is to teach. Taking away the child's food and passing judgment on his/her family's lifestyle is beyond the scope of your job description.
So by this rationale if a child is unusually withdrawn, is too tired to participate, or has suspicious bruises, the teacher should ignore it because it's not their business. A teacher's job is to teach?
Feeding a child this sort of garbage could be indicative of poor parenting, or in the least poor preparation for the morning routine. And of course a poor diet - especially one featuring drinks that are of questionable benefit for athletic recovery and utter poison to anyone else - could result in poor school performance, as well as poor health and malnutrition.
We must ask, is this the result of busyness on the parents' part, or laziness, and in what other areas of their relationship with their child could they be neglectful? This example might seem like a small thing but a teacher has a duty of care towards their students beyond standing at the front and reading from the textbook.0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job is to teach. Taking away the child's food and passing judgment on his/her family's lifestyle is beyond the scope of your job description.
I have to wonder though, when 2/3rds of society is overweight and the future generations are now the first that will NOT outlive their parents/ancestors when it WILL be time to step in and make it everyone's business.
When young children are now having to deal with lifelong diabetes, heart problems, the whole slew of health issues caused by obesity, and are having to undergo life-threatening surgeries to shrink their stomaches when society will decide as a whole that this detached, disinterested, not-my-job, only care about myself and screw everyone else- mentality will have to end.
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same.
Any teacher who calls a person a "POS parent" because his or her child is eating Doritos needs to take a big step back and remove him- or herself from the situation. Objectivity has long since flown out the window and the teacher is at risk of creating a greater problem. A bag of Doritos is not the same thing as a beating or sexual assault--that's just a ridiculously flawed argument that is so full of fallacies I don't know where to begin.
I said.... and i quote "It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition."
And my first recourse would be providing the child with actual sustenance.
If you think for a second that only proving *kitten* junk for your child to eat isn't abuse then.... well, i'm so sorry.0 -
I grew up eating Lunchables and a not-actually-milk milkshake for most of Kindergarten, and that was it. No apple or celery for a snack, no carrots or salad, nothing else. Would you call that healthy? Would you talk to my parents face to face about how you disapproved of their food choices for their child? Or would you silently thank them for feeding me at all? Is this a child that is being abused or neglected otherwise? Does the family not have enough money to spend on other, healthier foods? I know, that sounds ridiculous, but junk food is often times less expensive than healthier alternatives. Are there any other indicators of abuse or neglect?
If not, I'm afraid that you're going to have to educate on healthier alternatives during (if you have one) a food and nutrition course. If this is something that really bothers you, talk to the principal about implementing policies about no energy drinks at school. Energy drink aside (because kids shouldn't be drinking those), this could be an instance where mom and dad are doing the best they can and giving them a breakfast and little Janie decided that she wanted some Cheetos before school.
I would only intervene if there were indicators of abuse or neglect. We all want the best for future generations, but sometimes we have to pick our battles.0 -
Don't do it. And don't judge. At least this kid has food. She probably packs her own food, from what is in the home. I doubt anyone packs her lunch, or even pays much attention to her.
Some kids just survive childhood.0 -
precinct13 wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job is to teach. Taking away the child's food and passing judgment on his/her family's lifestyle is beyond the scope of your job description.
So by this rationale if a child is unusually withdrawn, is too tired to participate, or has suspicious bruises, the teacher should ignore it because it's not their business.
A bag of dorittos is not the same as "suspicious bruises" - pick the one you want to discuss.0 -
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rainbowbow wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Wouldn't you get sued and fired for that nowadays? Not sure if you can do much but try to educate the class as a whole on eating healthier.
I don't know. I personally think we are way too damn sensitive on the subject regarding weight. If you are abusing your child (I.E. not proving them with sustenance) i'd find it my moral obligation to do so.
I guess it's a great thing i'm not a teacher though. Because the one thing i can't stand is a fat-f%%% parent who is pushing that lifestyle/deathstyle onto their children.
I agree with you there. And I believe people shouldn't be allowed to have children unless the future parents are audited... But, that's not how our society is and unfortunately we have to play by the rules.
rules can be changed if the mindset of society changes. And the only way that's going to happen is to make an impact and impart as much knowledge as possible. It's sure as hell not by having a "not my problem" mentality^ as suggested above.
The best way to change the mindset of society is to educate. In this particular situation, you can do that without intervening with the parents by teaching and setting an example for the children as a whole.
Intervening with the parents is just going to end poorly in this situation.0 -
I don't know about your state, but in NY you are required to report neglect. Giving a second grader an energy drink isn't just neglect, it probably falls under child endangerment as well. Energy drinks have been tied to several adolescent and teen deaths in the last 5 years.
"NCANDS defines neglect as “a type of maltreatment that refers to the failure by the caregiver to provide needed, age-appropriate care although financially able to do so or offered financial or other means to do so” (USDHHS, 2007). Neglect is usually typified by an ongoing pattern of inadequate care and is readily observed by individuals in close contact with the child. Physicians, nurses, day care personnel, relatives and neighbors are frequently the ones to suspect and report neglect in infants, toddlers and preschoolaged children. Once children are in school, school personnel often notice indicators of child neglect such as poor hygiene, poor weight gain, inadequate medical care or frequent absences from school."
http://www.americanhumane.org/children/stop-child-abuse/fact-sheets/child-neglect.html
You're asking because your gut says you should say something. Teacher to teacher, go with your gut. Ignore the people who say your job is just to teach. They don't know the laws, and they don't have the training.0 -
galgenstrick wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Wouldn't you get sued and fired for that nowadays? Not sure if you can do much but try to educate the class as a whole on eating healthier.
I don't know. I personally think we are way too damn sensitive on the subject regarding weight. If you are abusing your child (I.E. not proving them with sustenance) i'd find it my moral obligation to do so.
I guess it's a great thing i'm not a teacher though. Because the one thing i can't stand is a fat-f%%% parent who is pushing that lifestyle/deathstyle onto their children.
I agree with you there. And I believe people shouldn't be allowed to have children unless the future parents are audited... But, that's not how our society is and unfortunately we have to play by the rules.
rules can be changed if the mindset of society changes. And the only way that's going to happen is to make an impact and impart as much knowledge as possible. It's sure as hell not by having a "not my problem" mentality^ as suggested above.
The best way to change the mindset of society is to educate. In this particular situation, you can do that without intervening with the parents by teaching and setting an example for the children as a whole.
Intervening with the parents is just going to end poorly in this situation.
I wish that were the case... but generally the parents of these children are obese individuals themselves. You can't expect the education of the child (who doesn't purchase or prepare their food) to make those choices them self. The responsibility falls on the parent. If they aren't having that brought to their attention, they have little motivation to make the changes.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/junk-food-kids-whos-to-blame
I encourage you to watch some of these. Children as young as 12 years old are undergoing bariatric surgery (paid for by the government) because their parent's cant get their crap together. This doesn't include the children who have to have all kinds of dental procedures (and extractions) because of tooth decay from sugary/acid foods and non-hygiene.
What's worse is this people ARE receiving nutritional counseling (some even by RDs for months) and they still cant stick to a diet. They just give up and go for surgery instead.
I mean think about that...0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job is to teach. Taking away the child's food and passing judgment on his/her family's lifestyle is beyond the scope of your job description.
I have to wonder though, when 2/3rds of society is overweight and the future generations are now the first that will NOT outlive their parents/ancestors when it WILL be time to step in and make it everyone's business.
When young children are now having to deal with lifelong diabetes, heart problems, the whole slew of health issues caused by obesity, and are having to undergo life-threatening surgeries to shrink their stomaches when society will decide as a whole that this detached, disinterested, not-my-job, only care about myself and screw everyone else- mentality will have to end.
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same.
Any teacher who calls a person a "POS parent" because his or her child is eating Doritos needs to take a big step back and remove him- or herself from the situation. Objectivity has long since flown out the window and the teacher is at risk of creating a greater problem. A bag of Doritos is not the same thing as a beating or sexual assault--that's just a ridiculously flawed argument that is so full of fallacies I don't know where to begin.
I said.... and i quote "It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition."
And my first recourse would be providing the child with actual sustenance.
If you think for a second that only proving *kitten* junk for your child to eat isn't abuse then.... well, i'm so sorry.
It's not abuse. It doesn't come close to meeting the standards of abuse. Do you realize that in this paragraph alone, you have a dozen logical fallacies? I can't even begin to tell you how glad you're not teaching my grandchildren.
"
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same. "
1. Ad hominem
2. Appeal to emotion
3. Appeal to probability
4. False equivalency
5. Straw man
6. Unwarranted assumption
7. Correlation proves causation
8. Appeal to fear
9. Appeal to consequences
10. Slippery slope
11. False dilemma
12. Argument from pathos
0 -
LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job is to teach. Taking away the child's food and passing judgment on his/her family's lifestyle is beyond the scope of your job description.
I have to wonder though, when 2/3rds of society is overweight and the future generations are now the first that will NOT outlive their parents/ancestors when it WILL be time to step in and make it everyone's business.
When young children are now having to deal with lifelong diabetes, heart problems, the whole slew of health issues caused by obesity, and are having to undergo life-threatening surgeries to shrink their stomaches when society will decide as a whole that this detached, disinterested, not-my-job, only care about myself and screw everyone else- mentality will have to end.
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same.
Any teacher who calls a person a "POS parent" because his or her child is eating Doritos needs to take a big step back and remove him- or herself from the situation. Objectivity has long since flown out the window and the teacher is at risk of creating a greater problem. A bag of Doritos is not the same thing as a beating or sexual assault--that's just a ridiculously flawed argument that is so full of fallacies I don't know where to begin.
I said.... and i quote "It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition."
And my first recourse would be providing the child with actual sustenance.
If you think for a second that only proving *kitten* junk for your child to eat isn't abuse then.... well, i'm so sorry.
It's not abuse. It doesn't come close to meeting the standards of abuse. Do you realize that in this paragraph alone, you have a dozen logical fallacies? I can't even begin to tell you how glad you're not teaching my grandchildren.
"
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same. "
1. Ad hominem
2. Appeal to emotion
3. Appeal to probability
4. False equivalency
5. Straw man
6. Unwarranted assumption
7. Correlation proves causation
8. Appeal to fear
9. Appeal to consequences
10. Slippery slope
11. False dilemma
12. Argument from pathos
Aren't those the same?0 -
novasunflower wrote: »I would call CPS...
Society has enough issues without that kind of passive-aggressive posturing.
If you don't have the courage to say it directly to the parents, you have no business sending the authorities after them.
I realize that laws may be different in other countries, but I work in a profession that has a legal "duty to report" suspected child welfare issues to those authorities.
So I'm in the "call CPS" camp. There may well be other serious issues in that home.0 -
galgenstrick wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »I would probably intervene if the child were up to 7th-8th grade. At that point i would acknowledge their own choices. I would be willing to assist them with making the right food choices, but if they are fat, get diabetes, and get picked on it's their own perogative at that point.
Now if it's a child child (?) then i would absolutely intervene**. I would only do so by collective the offending item and replacing it with something else. For example, in the breakfast situation i would collect the redbull and cheetos and give them an apple and a milk. Or a banana and a yogurt. something to that effect.
I would then send them home with the offending item and a handwritten note that they had received a healthier option instead. I would probably say something along the lines of... "XChild has had low energy lately" or "XChild seems to be having problems integrating and playing with the other students" or "XChild is having problems in PE/Recess" and it "may be because they didn't have a nutritious and healthy breakfast. So i bought them something that may be more beneficial to their studies/health".
If the parents are ballsy enough to send the child to class with the items again i would write them a serious fat-hating/angry/shitlord letter.
**Note: I would only intervene if the product was genuinely terrible for their health or completely lacking in any nutritional value. It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition.
Unless the child is your child, it's not your business.
assuming it'd be my responsibility to discipline, teach, and shape the future of generations to come; i'd say it's my business.
No. Your job is to teach. Taking away the child's food and passing judgment on his/her family's lifestyle is beyond the scope of your job description.
I have to wonder though, when 2/3rds of society is overweight and the future generations are now the first that will NOT outlive their parents/ancestors when it WILL be time to step in and make it everyone's business.
When young children are now having to deal with lifelong diabetes, heart problems, the whole slew of health issues caused by obesity, and are having to undergo life-threatening surgeries to shrink their stomaches when society will decide as a whole that this detached, disinterested, not-my-job, only care about myself and screw everyone else- mentality will have to end.
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same.
Any teacher who calls a person a "POS parent" because his or her child is eating Doritos needs to take a big step back and remove him- or herself from the situation. Objectivity has long since flown out the window and the teacher is at risk of creating a greater problem. A bag of Doritos is not the same thing as a beating or sexual assault--that's just a ridiculously flawed argument that is so full of fallacies I don't know where to begin.
I said.... and i quote "It'd have to be a meal of oreos, doritos/cheetos, and packaged donuts only for me to really step in. I dont presume to know their diet outside of school and i recognize that even in my own diet these things can be eaten in moderation. I wouldn't flip about one "bad" side or one "bad" portion. I'm saying if the entire meal was devoid of nutrition."
And my first recourse would be providing the child with actual sustenance.
If you think for a second that only proving *kitten* junk for your child to eat isn't abuse then.... well, i'm so sorry.
It's not abuse. It doesn't come close to meeting the standards of abuse. Do you realize that in this paragraph alone, you have a dozen logical fallacies? I can't even begin to tell you how glad you're not teaching my grandchildren.
"
If their POS parents can't care about their children's future or lives, it's time to step in and do it. If a parent is beating their child i'd report it. If a child is being sexually assulted by a parent i'd report it. And if a child's parent is literally ruining their life-long health, i'd do the same. "
1. Ad hominem
2. Appeal to emotion
3. Appeal to probability
4. False equivalency
5. Straw man
6. Unwarranted assumption
7. Correlation proves causation
8. Appeal to fear
9. Appeal to consequences
10. Slippery slope
11. False dilemma
12. Argument from pathos
Aren't those the same?
Yes and no. The first is making the argument that the situation is true because Emotion. The second makes the claim that Something Must Be Done because Emotion. I'm just glad that Godwin's Law hasn't been applied yet.
Edited to Add:
Maybe we could call number 12 the "Sally Strothers fallacy" or the "Do it For the Children fallacy?" Even if you reject the last, 11 is still a pretty impressive list of fallacies in one small paragraph.0 -
What you can do is document, neglect, date, time, pictures, and when you have at least ten documented situations, maybe that merits an interview. Usually school social work will do intervention before CPS will lift a finger.
The wrong food for lunch is nothing.0
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