Is organic food really any better than conventional?

neanderthin

LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »

neanderthin wrote: »

LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »

GuitarJerry wrote: »

LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

LoupGarouTFTs wrote: »

He's also among the first to admit that feeding an entire nation entirely on organic produce and organically-raised animals would be impossible.

I saw something the other day indicating something like 20% of waste, accounting for that would make a significant difference.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. However, one thing he was referencing was the ease with which an organic crop can be wiped out, in comparison with a conventionally raised crop. Yes, organic farmers can and do use some pesticides, but they are often less effective than those used by conventional farmers. Heirloom seeds are also more expensive and tend to be less hardy than seeds developed to grow in certain areas or to have certain resistances. He's developed a tomato that grows insanely well in his tiny micro-environment, but it's not doing nearly as well at my home, where the soil is different, even though we barely live 10 miles from each other.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we expect industries to grow, change, and improve over time. Every industry except farming. If a lawyer or a steel mill or an army or a teacher used 18th or 19th century practices, then we'd say that person or group was behind the times and lacking credibility. Farming and ranching practices have improved with the advent of science and learning--why in the world do we expect these industries to remain rooted in times that fed fewer people and that had less safe practices when so much new and better technology makes our food safer and more abundant?

Because keeping chickens in an area so small they can't even stand up, much less turn around is not humane. I know where talking about vegetables, but you just expanded the discussion into farming. Profit is the wrong motivation in this industry for many reasons. We want to know what is in our food and how it is being processed. Small local farm are trying to do the right thing in that area, but it costs more and is difficult to compete with the McFarms that don't care about food quality or proper treatment of animals, but rather only seek to increase profit at all costs to their customers (us), the environment, other living creatures, and damn the rest.

Other people mentioned beef before me, so no, I expanded nothing. Your argument is an emotional one, not a factual one. Chickens don't utilize a lot of space and prefer to crowd together. Yes, they should be able to stand up, but you're exaggerating the issue. It is a fact that over 90% of all farms are still family-owned, but they have contracts with larger organizations to produce food for them. As to profit, what is wrong with profit? Farmers and ranchers still need to feed their own families and pay their bills. When you can argue from facts instead of emotions, maybe you'll realize that the egg industry is all-but dead in California because of the new "humane" rules and that emotions will eventually destroy the food sources we rely on. Please, though, plant your own Victory garden and feel free to raise your own cows, goat, chickens, or whatever to feed your own family instead of making up restrictions that will raise prices and reduce food availability for everyone else.

ejbronte wrote: »

Until we grew our own, I didn't like tomatoes; when I tasted the ones straight out of our garden, I was pleasantly surprised. Home-grown is definitely best. So I do believe in supporting legitimate local farmers. My sister and brother, who are both acquainted with hunting, confirm that an animal killed quickly will have fewer stress-related chemicals racing through its system and this also affects taste. Also, I believe that an animal raised fairly naturally on open ground, eating what it should eat, is healthier than one raised in tiny, unsanitary spaces and artificially stuffed with chemicals and medication. An animal raised in a healthy condition would, I think be healthier for the consumer.

Since true organic farming is, indeed, impossible on a large-scale (almost by definition), we all need to develop a more reliable way to ensure that the techniques used in large-scale consumer farming is not ruining the environment while feeding nations-at-large; in the long-run, harmful techniques will backfire.

Have you been to a modern farm or are you relying on animal rights/anti-farming propaganda for your assumptions on the spaces and drugs? (By the way, you're stuffed with chemicals, too. Especially if you just ate food.)

I suspect your a creature of a city, just a guess.

Bad guess. But ad hominem attempts at redirection provide bad support for an argument. I do have my own garden and do have my own dairy goats and am making a second attempt at meat rabbits. I process deer for hunters during the fall and winter months and both eat venison myself and feed it, raw, to my dogs.

How close are you to YOUR food?

Nice to see, good for you. My go to for rabbit is a neighbor and rabbit has been on my menu for quite a few years. Just started germinating micro greens for the first time in an attempt to get a consistent supply at a reasonable price, they are outrageously expensive. Planted magenta spreen, Cressida cres, opal basil, red garnet amaranth and a red purslane. I also use local lamb, poultry and veg that I don't grow myself. Asparagus is just popping up and over the weekend grabbed a cache of fiddleheads and wild garlic.

sofaking6

For me, I do believe that 'organic' meat is better, but by 'organic' I really just mean without antibiotics or hormones. And I don't even have data to back up my preference, so there ya have it But for sure some nice grass-fed farm-raised beef tastes a zillion times better than anything from a factory.

SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage

sofaking6 wrote: »

For me, I do believe that 'organic' meat is better, but by 'organic' I really just mean without antibiotics or hormones. And I don't even have data to back up my preference, so there ya have it But for sure some nice grass-fed farm-raised beef tastes a zillion times better than anything from a factory.

+1
I don't need a study to tell me that I prefer the taste of something. This thread is all kinds of weird.

Need2Exerc1se

suzycreamcheese wrote: »

organic is more sustainable. The pesticides used on crops is having a massive effect on the insect population even outside farming areas. Bumblebee numbers have crashed. This is having a massive effect on other wild flowers that are unable to be pollinated, and its having a huge effect on the bird population who eat these insects, and also means that slug and snail populations and are starting to get out of control because there arent enough birds to keep them down. The ramifications go on and on.

I dont know whether organic tastes better. I think sometimes it does, and sometimes I cant taste much difference. I believe the welfare standards for organically produced meat and dairy animals are a bit higher and more stringent, certainly in the UK anyway, and thats not an unimportant issue, even if it isnt perfect.
I cant always afford to buy organic, but I think there is no doubt that it is preferable on many many levels to support organic farming where, and if you can.

This is pretty much how I feel too.

sofaking6

BinkyBonk wrote: »

sofaking6 wrote: »

For me, I do believe that 'organic' meat is better, but by 'organic' I really just mean without antibiotics or hormones. And I don't even have data to back up my preference, so there ya have it But for sure some nice grass-fed farm-raised beef tastes a zillion times better than anything from a factory.

+1
I don't need a study to tell me that I prefer the taste of something. This thread is all kinds of weird.

I kinda quit reading when the thread told me that the reason backyard tomatoes taste better than store bought tomatoes is because of 'organic'. It's hard to discuss something that people don't have a standard definition for.

FunkyTobias

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqe4ZV9LDs