losing weight, but gaining fat...
Replies
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »I just want to point out to those who are recommending professional help and seem to be disturbed by her weight that OP is literally less than 2.5 lb underweight. Also, she stated that she is trying to lower her body fat%, not lose weight.
The healthy BMI range is 18.5-25. No one would bat an eye if she were 25.3.
OP, sounds like you are doing just about everything right, and the bf measurement was off on one or both of your weigh ins. It is probably a good idea to try to gradually get up to 18.5 BMI, but it's not urgent; take your time and do it healthfully.
I would recommend upping your calories to at least 1800 to build muscle, and 2000+ is probably more reasonable than you think. You said you never counted calories before 3 months ago so it's very possible that you need more than you think to maintain. I thought I ate about 1700 calories a day to maintain, but now that I am tracking, I realize it's more like 2300 (5'9" 150 lb) and at 1700 I lose weight. To put on muscle, I need over 2500 calories per day.
It takes a caloric surplus to gain muscle, and even if you overdo it a bit at first you can always cut back if you find yourself gaining too much fat.
Good luck with your goal.
Thank you
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Also like to say that UST because you think the person is a troll or someone on the post is a lurker you don't know the person or the qualification of the person who is trying to help. Read not what is posted but the reason for the post first and start from there. 2.5lbs underweight is nothing and canbe gained in one week. This is from someone who had an eating disorder and added 2lbs a week to make sure she stayed at home where she was comfortable recovering and did.0
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I know I seem to post this a bit, but you may find this worthwhile:
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
You wouldn't necessarily have to do exactly what Staci did, but from what you've posted, it sounds like this approach would work well for you.
This!0 -
My son has the same problem, he looks really thin, as if he as an eating disorder but he is fine. Doctors say he has a really high metabolism. He has been like that since he was three, he's now 13 and eats like a horse. OP I advise you get a food scales to see how much you are eating to get the accurate calories of the meal you are eating. Don't eat at a deficit anymore. Possibly increase by 500 see if that is ok!!
How much adolescents weight and how much they eat before/after growth spurts and hormonal changes is irrelevant to discussing the experiences of adults.
The OP is quite probably eating a bit more than she believes she is: she has already stated she doesn't count or measure. The OP may, or may not, have impaired ability to see herself as others would. If she perceives herself as fat while being at 15% body fat as a female, the likelihood of this impairment being present is increased.
Regardless:
a) impedance measurements are "crap". I have not yet managed to find what, if anything, they measure, and to what degree they are even congruent with themselves so as to at least derive SOME information from the measurements.
b) if you are eating at a caloric deficit you *usually* do NOT gain muscle mass, even though you may gain strength from training. The weight you lose will ALWAYS consist of BOTH fat and non-fat mass. The question is the proportion. ABSOLUTELY, for example, you could lose fat in a 1:1 ratio with muscle (for example lose 5lbs of fat and 5lbs of muscle) in a calorically restricted diet when you're close to normal weight. That ratio for a random Obese II person may be as good as 10:1!
c) You can try to increase strength without worrying about increasing muscle mass --> to do that you would eat AT maintenance, and you would include and eat back your exercise calories and cross-reference to your actual weight. It would probably involve a very slight weight gain on a monthly basis.
d) You can try to increase muscle mass with minimal fat gains. Check out the exercise forums for info. You would probably have to engage in some fancy footwork having to do with meal timings while eating at slightly above maintenance to increase your muscle mass with minimal fat gains. You would probably gain a couple of lbs on a monthly basis.0 -
I would aim yourself to about 1700-1800 calories a day, and see how you feel. People will go back and forth about marcos, but at the end of the day, calories are calories. Eating more than your body burns will gain weight, eating less than your body burns will lose weight. You probably do need more calories than you think (as does your husband). There are plenty of maintenance calorie calculators on the internet. You start by taking your BMR, multiplying it by your activity multiplier (outside of exercise), and adding exercise. 2000 may sound crazy, but it is probably right when you add up all the numbers. I don't know your age, which is a factor in BMR calculations, but at 1200, you are eating even less than your BMR, which is not conducive to long term healthy living.
If you want to know why you may be gaining fat even as your losing weight (emphasis is on may, because as others have pointed out, those readers are not always reliable), it because you are operating at such a high caloric deficit (potentially 800-1000 calories a day) for someone with as little body fat as you, that your body burning more muscle to meat your energy needs. Then, when you do eat, your body is slowing down your metabolism to store more of those calories as fat, because it is worried that it will need them for energy later.
You don't have to jump up in calories overnight, but slowly and consistently raising your calorie intake will be beneficial for you in the long run. I don't think there is that much risk from being 5'8" and 120 pounds, but your current caloric intake at that size is not sustainable if you want to fully meet your body's nutritional needs.
While I do not think that you need to see a shrink or have an eating disorder, I do think you need to listen to the advice you have gotten from a lot of people here about making some changes to your lifestyle to make it healthier. I hope you realize that this is us being supportive.0 -
My son has the same problem, he looks really thin, as if he as an eating disorder but he is fine. Doctors say he has a really high metabolism. He has been like that since he was three, he's now 13 and eats like a horse. OP I advise you get a food scales to see how much you are eating to get the accurate calories of the meal you are eating. Don't eat at a deficit anymore. Possibly increase by 500 see if that is ok!!
How much adolescents weight and how much they eat before/after growth spurts and hormonal changes is irrelevant to discussing the experiences of adults.
The OP is quite probably eating a bit more than she believes she is: she has already stated she doesn't count or measure. The OP may, or may not, have impaired ability to see herself as others would. If she perceives herself as fat while being at 15% body fat as a female, the likelihood of this impairment being present is increased.
Regardless:
a) impedance measurements are "crap". I have not yet managed to find what, if anything, they measure, and to what degree they are even congruent with themselves so as to at least derive SOME information from the measurements.
b) if you are eating at a caloric deficit you *usually* do NOT gain muscle mass, even though you may gain strength from training. The weight you lose will ALWAYS consist of BOTH fat and non-fat mass. The question is the proportion. ABSOLUTELY, for example, you could lose fat in a 1:1 ratio with muscle (for example lose 5lbs of fat and 5lbs of muscle) in a calorically restricted diet when you're close to normal weight. That ratio for a random Obese II person may be as good as 10:1!
c) You can try to increase strength without worrying about increasing muscle mass --> to do that you would eat AT maintenance, and you would include and eat back your exercise calories and cross-reference to your actual weight. It would probably involve a very slight weight gain on a monthly basis.
d) You can try to increase muscle mass with minimal fat gains. Check out the exercise forums for info. You would probably have to engage in some fancy footwork having to do with meal timings while eating at slightly above maintenance to increase your muscle mass with minimal fat gains. You would probably gain a couple of lbs on a monthly basis.
I count my calories now and go by labels, but no, I do not weigh my food.
I'm not at 15% body fat. That's where I would like to be. And I NEVER EVER perceived myself as fat.
As for your other points - I appreciate your post and the information. The better informed I become the more healthy and appropriate decisions I can make regarding the next step in my journey to becoming fit.0 -
I would validate those numbers by applying a couple of other very simple techniques.
1) Caliper method. GNC sells them retail. I have one - you can do the 1 point test to start, or you can go to the 7 point test - but you will need someone available to measure your back test point for sure - most likely triceps as well.
2) Measurements - for females, you need to tape measure several areas of your body, waist, hips, arms, upper thigh and I believe chest. By doing this method, you can calculate based upon a template of a body at your height and weight, what body fat % you can have.
The other methods - hydrostat and DEXA are more expensive. To be honest, I've done all - and really caliper and tape measure really do the trick to validate an electronic reader. They do work - but you have to validate the numbers.
Hope this helps.0 -
TampaExPat wrote: »I would aim yourself to about 1700-1800 calories a day, and see how you feel. People will go back and forth about marcos, but at the end of the day, calories are calories. Eating more than your body burns will gain weight, eating less than your body burns will lose weight. You probably do need more calories than you think (as does your husband). There are plenty of maintenance calorie calculators on the internet. You start by taking your BMR, multiplying it by your activity multiplier (outside of exercise), and adding exercise. 2000 may sound crazy, but it is probably right when you add up all the numbers. I don't know your age, which is a factor in BMR calculations, but at 1200, you are eating even less than your BMR, which is not conducive to long term healthy living.
If you want to know why you may be gaining fat even as your losing weight (emphasis is on may, because as others have pointed out, those readers are not always reliable), it because you are operating at such a high caloric deficit (potentially 800-1000 calories a day) for someone with as little body fat as you, that your body burning more muscle to meat your energy needs. Then, when you do eat, your body is slowing down your metabolism to store more of those calories as fat, because it is worried that it will need them for energy later.
You don't have to jump up in calories overnight, but slowly and consistently raising your calorie intake will be beneficial for you in the long run. I don't think there is that much risk from being 5'8" and 120 pounds, but your current caloric intake at that size is not sustainable if you want to fully meet your body's nutritional needs.
While I do not think that you need to see a shrink or have an eating disorder, I do think you need to listen to the advice you have gotten from a lot of people here about making some changes to your lifestyle to make it healthier. I hope you realize that this is us being supportive.
Now your criticism, I appreciate You are not being condescending or judgmental. Somehow this thread evolved from a simple question to a major discussion about my physical and mental health. I appreciate advise from those who, obviously, are on the same journey as I am (getting fit and healthy) and I am happy to consider their (and your) advice. 0 -
tedboosalis7 wrote: »I would validate those numbers by applying a couple of other very simple techniques.
1) Caliper method. GNC sells them retail. I have one - you can do the 1 point test to start, or you can go to the 7 point test - but you will need someone available to measure your back test point for sure - most likely triceps as well.
2) Measurements - for females, you need to tape measure several areas of your body, waist, hips, arms, upper thigh and I believe chest. By doing this method, you can calculate based upon a template of a body at your height and weight, what body fat % you can have.
The other methods - hydrostat and DEXA are more expensive. To be honest, I've done all - and really caliper and tape measure really do the trick to validate an electronic reader. They do work - but you have to validate the numbers.
Hope this helps.
I have the caliper. I've only done the 1-point mentor. And in my case, the measurements are most certainly lower than they used to be. So those results speak for themselves.
As for DEXA - I'm not an athlete and it's just not that important to me, to go and spend money just to know that one number
Thank you 0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »I just want to point out to those who are recommending professional help and seem to be disturbed by her weight that OP is literally less than 2.5 lb underweight. Also, she stated that she is trying to lower her body fat%, not lose weight.
It's not just that she's underweight, but that she's also eating way too little if she's really eating 1200... so sure, she might not be 'trying to lose weight' but at 1200 calories, it's the same thing.
But yeah... we've since established that she's definitely not eating 1200. Going by the label is nice and all but I'm guessing she's not only eating single serving packaged food (which is often more calories than what the label says anyway), so she's probably completely underestimating everything... otherwise she would be losing weight.0 -
You can also try to visually cross reference: http://www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/
As for DXA scans being for athletes only: I guess it depends how curious you are, and how much they cost in your area. Locally they cost under $100 per scan; and I'm quite curious
And I am still trying to figure out the relationship, if any, between my Aria scale's body fat analyzer's numbers (impedance measurement) and the numbers off a DXA scan.
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My son has the same problem, he looks really thin, as if he as an eating disorder but he is fine. Doctors say he has a really high metabolism. He has been like that since he was three, he's now 13 and eats like a horse. OP I advise you get a food scales to see how much you are eating to get the accurate calories of the meal you are eating. Don't eat at a deficit anymore. Possibly increase by 500 see if that is ok!!
How much adolescents weight and how much they eat before/after growth spurts and hormonal changes is irrelevant to discussing the experiences of adults.
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Excuse me are you his doctor cos the doctor said that he would be like that for the rest of his life or are you now saying you are more qualified than his doctor. If you don't like it then take it up with his doctor. Some people are stick thin no matter what they try in just like the OP it runs in the family. I suggest you try research the subject a little bit more before commenting the way you did. Or did you want me to write a ten page essay detailing the skinniness of his dads family.0 -
My son has the same problem, he looks really thin, as if he as an eating disorder but he is fine. Doctors say he has a really high metabolism. He has been like that since he was three, he's now 13 and eats like a horse. OP I advise you get a food scales to see how much you are eating to get the accurate calories of the meal you are eating. Don't eat at a deficit anymore. Possibly increase by 500 see if that is ok!!
How much adolescents weight and how much they eat before/after growth spurts and hormonal changes is irrelevant to discussing the experiences of adults.
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Excuse me are you his doctor cos the doctor said that he would be like that for the rest of his life or are you now saying you are more qualified than his doctor. If you don't like it then take it up with his doctor. Some people are stick thin no matter what they try in just like the OP it runs in the family. I suggest you try research the subject a little bit more before commenting the way you did. Or did you want me to write a ten page essay detailing the skinniness of his dads family.
Are you #hangry?
I said his experience as a 13 year old male adolescent is irrelevant to the experience of an adult female.
In other words WTF does his leanness or his dad's have to do with the price of rice in China?
ETA: when he gets to be 50 years old and he has maintained that "almost eating disorder like thin-ness" throughout adulthood--let me know.
ETA2: having the dad's family as an example, why would you be worried enough to have him checked out by a doctor? Apples don't fall far from apple trees and all that...
ETA3: I withdraw the QUESTION of whether you're #hangry; you'd have to be from another planet NOT to be. I understand why you feel the need to support undereating based on what you're personally doing. Being supportive; however, does not mean giving a free pass to questionable practices, goals, or desires. I assume that you personally would agree with the statement that a doctor should recommend and supervise a VLCD, for example, and that you would not personally engage in such unless you were doing so in the context of a medical intervention. Right?0 -
My son has the same problem, he looks really thin, as if he as an eating disorder but he is fine. Doctors say he has a really high metabolism. He has been like that since he was three, he's now 13 and eats like a horse. OP I advise you get a food scales to see how much you are eating to get the accurate calories of the meal you are eating. Don't eat at a deficit anymore. Possibly increase by 500 see if that is ok!!
How much adolescents weight and how much they eat before/after growth spurts and hormonal changes is irrelevant to discussing the experiences of adults.
.
Excuse me are you his doctor cos the doctor said that he would be like that for the rest of his life or are you now saying you are more qualified than his doctor. If you don't like it then take it up with his doctor. Some people are stick thin no matter what they try in just like the OP it runs in the family. I suggest you try research the subject a little bit more before commenting the way you did. Or did you want me to write a ten page essay detailing the skinniness of his dads family.
"no matter what they try" doesn't include eating more in the majority of cases.0 -
My son has the same problem, he looks really thin, as if he as an eating disorder but he is fine. Doctors say he has a really high metabolism. He has been like that since he was three, he's now 13 and eats like a horse. OP I advise you get a food scales to see how much you are eating to get the accurate calories of the meal you are eating. Don't eat at a deficit anymore. Possibly increase by 500 see if that is ok!!
How much adolescents weight and how much they eat before/after growth spurts and hormonal changes is irrelevant to discussing the experiences of adults.
.
Excuse me are you his doctor cos the doctor said that he would be like that for the rest of his life or are you now saying you are more qualified than his doctor. If you don't like it then take it up with his doctor. Some people are stick thin no matter what they try in just like the OP it runs in the family. I suggest you try research the subject a little bit more before commenting the way you did. Or did you want me to write a ten page essay detailing the skinniness of his dads family.
Are you #hangry?
I said his experience as a 13 year old male adolescent is irrelevant to the experience of an adult female.
In other words WTF does his leanness or his dad's have to do with the price of rice in China?
ETA: when he gets to be 50 years old and he has maintained that "almost eating disorder like thin-ness" throughout adulthood--let me know.
Have to agree, a teenage boy is irrelevant0 -
Sometimes, it depends on when you have weighed yourself, etc before or after training, morning or afternoon ? .. being hydrated or dehydrated can effect how much the scales tell you. This is what the instructors told me.. ask the people who work at your gym.
For one step off the sad step!.. only go to how you feel and how healthy you are,
and two find 'the body coach' search him on Facebook, instagram and Google. Honestly he has been my inspiration to fitness ever since ! ☺0 -
I read Fitness RX and Muscle and Fitness Hers and follow them on Twitter (as well as @BornFitness and a couple others). There are good exercises and recipes out there to help, but you do need to eat enough to provide the nutrition to gain muscle. At 1200, with your height and activity level, it doesn't seem you're doing that.
Though, you probably are underestimating what you eat. Serving portions on labels often don't represent the portion of food, even for a slice of bread. Especially for eggs. When I scoop out 2TB of peanut or almond butter with a measuring spoon and weight it, it's 1.2 or 1.25 servings going by grams. The variance depends on the measuring spoon--those aren't created equally, either.
And then there's looking at your calorie burn. I'm a huge numbers nerd, so I wear a fitness tracker 24/7 and a HRM when I exercise. Going to upgrade my tech next month!
I really can't relate with the specific numeric goal. Being focused on a specific end weight or bf percentage never resonated with me. I always had a range for my goal weight--I just wasn't sure what my end point was and was going to stop when I was in the healthy BMI range and felt good. I am focusing on building muscle, too. But it's easier for me than some. I love weight-lifting, and I love when I set a one rep max and checking the total weight I've lifted at the end of my workout (my tracking program computes that for me--NERD!). For my long lifting session last week, I lifted over 118,000 pounds total! I'm also working on improving my running times and cardio fitness. Those are the numbers that matter to me.
Don't get me wrong, I care about how I look and rock the bikinis I bought from Victoria's Secret, but am I "perfect?" Nope. Do I care? Nope. And I live in SoCal, where it's very easy to get sucked into caring.
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Oh let me use my adult 30 year old brother in law who is his uncle. Does that work for you? Same thing. Can't add weight even if he eats a kfc variety bucket everyday and over 1000 calories a day. And btw my comment was because people were saying the OP is too thin and needs to see someone. That wasn't nice!! OP asked a question and got told all sorts of things that weren't relevant so before you try find fault with my comments first find fault with the ones that said OP needs to see someone. Thank you0
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Oh let me use my adult 30 year old brother in law who is his uncle. Does that work for you? Same thing. Can't add weight even if he eats a kfc variety bucket everyday and over 1000 calories a day. And btw my comment was because people were saying the OP is too thin and needs to see someone. That wasn't nice!! OP asked a question and got told all sorts of things that weren't relevant so before you try find fault with my comments first find fault with the ones that said OP needs to see someone. Thank you
So could many people on this forum without gaining weight. And that's not because they can't gain.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »I just want to point out to those who are recommending professional help and seem to be disturbed by her weight that OP is literally less than 2.5 lb underweight. Also, she stated that she is trying to lower her body fat%, not lose weight.
It's not just that she's underweight, but that she's also eating way too little if she's really eating 1200... so sure, she might not be 'trying to lose weight' but at 1200 calories, it's the same thing.
But yeah... we've since established that she's definitely not eating 1200. Going by the label is nice and all but I'm guessing she's not only eating single serving packaged food (which is often more calories than what the label says anyway), so she's probably completely underestimating everything... otherwise she would be losing weight.
Assumptions... Assumptions... You know what they say happens when you assume... I can't help, but laugh...0 -
I'm not going to say anymore. Goodnite and sleep well.0
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Oh let me use my adult 30 year old brother in law who is his uncle. Does that work for you? Same thing. Can't add weight even if he eats a kfc variety bucket everyday and over 1000 calories a day. And btw my comment was because people were saying the OP is too thin and needs to see someone. That wasn't nice!! OP asked a question and got told all sorts of things that weren't relevant so before you try find fault with my comments first find fault with the ones that said OP needs to see someone. Thank you
And again someone who professes to be underweight, has a losing body fat goal and says they eat 1200 calories a day and that 2000 calories a day is shocking needs a serious reassessment of their perception
Not your, however well meaning, attempt at support which is IMHO unhelpful and dangerous
That said I agree she's probably eating much more and has good goals of gaining muscle but will need to shift perception to eating at or over maintenance and increasing scale weight0 -
Oh let me use my adult 30 year old brother in law who is his uncle. Does that work for you? Same thing. Can't add weight even if he eats a kfc variety bucket everyday and over 1000 calories a day. And btw my comment was because people were saying the OP is too thin and needs to see someone. That wasn't nice!! OP asked a question and got told all sorts of things that weren't relevant so before you try find fault with my comments first find fault with the ones that said OP needs to see someone. Thank you
If your 30 year old brother in law eats over his TDEE he will gain wait.
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »I just want to point out to those who are recommending professional help and seem to be disturbed by her weight that OP is literally less than 2.5 lb underweight. Also, she stated that she is trying to lower her body fat%, not lose weight.
It's not just that she's underweight, but that she's also eating way too little if she's really eating 1200... so sure, she might not be 'trying to lose weight' but at 1200 calories, it's the same thing.
But yeah... we've since established that she's definitely not eating 1200. Going by the label is nice and all but I'm guessing she's not only eating single serving packaged food (which is often more calories than what the label says anyway), so she's probably completely underestimating everything... otherwise she would be losing weight.
My issue was that some posts seemed to be ascribing an eating disorder to someone who possibly just didn't know her calorie requirements (which would make sense if one had only been counting calories for a few months and hadn't been maintaining). OP stated a goal of increasing lean mass so I assumed (though I suppose I could be wrong) that if she was having the opposite result she would adjust accordingly, and not continue to eat at a deficit in the face of consistent unwanted weight loss. Accidental weight loss due to miscalculation or faulty estimate =/= eating disorder.
For those just recommending a caloric increase, or even a modest weight increase, I agree 100%, and I actually recommended the same thing.
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Just start lifting you'll create muscle, if you want have another measurement done someone i think made an error0
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I read Fitness RX and Muscle and Fitness Hers and follow them on Twitter (as well as @BornFitness and a couple others). There are good exercises and recipes out there to help, but you do need to eat enough to provide the nutrition to gain muscle. At 1200, with your height and activity level, it doesn't seem you're doing that.
Though, you probably are underestimating what you eat. Serving portions on labels often don't represent the portion of food, even for a slice of bread. Especially for eggs. When I scoop out 2TB of peanut or almond butter with a measuring spoon and weight it, it's 1.2 or 1.25 servings going by grams. The variance depends on the measuring spoon--those aren't created equally, either.
And then there's looking at your calorie burn. I'm a huge numbers nerd, so I wear a fitness tracker 24/7 and a HRM when I exercise. Going to upgrade my tech next month!
I really can't relate with the specific numeric goal. Being focused on a specific end weight or bf percentage never resonated with me. I always had a range for my goal weight--I just wasn't sure what my end point was and was going to stop when I was in the healthy BMI range and felt good. I am focusing on building muscle, too. But it's easier for me than some. I love weight-lifting, and I love when I set a one rep max and checking the total weight I've lifted at the end of my workout (my tracking program computes that for me--NERD!). For my long lifting session last week, I lifted over 118,000 pounds total! I'm also working on improving my running times and cardio fitness. Those are the numbers that matter to me.
Don't get me wrong, I care about how I look and rock the bikinis I bought from Victoria's Secret, but am I "perfect?" Nope. Do I care? Nope. And I live in SoCal, where it's very easy to get sucked into caring.
Thank you. I really like how you look at a range and not just a number. I'm glad you shared your personal experience with me. And I appreciate your note about portions. I agree with you and I do my best to stay true to the portions. I mentioned before that I don't weigh my food, so yes, there is a wiggle room when it comes to exact calorie count, but I'm happy with my progress and the way my clothes fit. And that's what's most important to me. Yes, I'd like to gain muscle and I hope that with a little help from a trainer and a nutritionist, a reliable fitness program and a little determination, I'll get there eventually 0 -
barryplumber wrote: »Just start lifting you'll create muscle, if you want have another measurement done someone i think made an error
Not if she's in a deficit.0 -
galgenstrick wrote: »barryplumber wrote: »Just start lifting you'll create muscle, if you want have another measurement done someone i think made an error
Not if she's in a deficit.
At maintenance for a slow body recomp
Above maintenance for a bulk and cut cycle
Both I imagine would require more than 2000 calories and you would probably need to track accurately to ensure you're hitting them0
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