Squats? Deadlifts? Safe or too risky?

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Replies

  • emmoen
    emmoen Posts: 218 Member
    If you are worried then do box squats... I have had 4 knee surgeries and that is what I do because I have lost range of motion in my knees... I so do deadlift(70lbs) today but once again I just don't go into deep squat... Probably won't go much higher in weight because I don't want to cause low back issues
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
    emmoen wrote: »
    If you are worried then do box squats... I have had 4 knee surgeries and that is what I do because I have lost range of motion in my knees... I so do deadlift(70lbs) today but once again I just don't go into deep squat... Probably won't go much higher in weight because I don't want to cause low back issues

    I believe box squats are harder on the knees for someone who has full RoM. As I've been told, the deeper the squat, the easier it is on the knees. Dorsiflexion limitations notwithstanding...and proper form is needed in either case, of course.
  • Unknown
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  • refuseresist
    refuseresist Posts: 934 Member
    Is it really hard to get them right? What examples of poor form do you see?
  • yopeeps025
    yopeeps025 Posts: 8,680 Member
    refuseresist wrote: »
    Is it really hard to get them right? What examples of poor form do you see?

    bad set up.
    rounding of the back during any part of the lift.
    You can't tell looking but when people complain about knee problems they might not have hip mobility issues.
    when they come out the hole they go up too fast with legs and it looks kind of like a good morning hybrid with squats.
  • yopeeps025
    yopeeps025 Posts: 8,680 Member
    edited May 2015
    refuseresist wrote: »
    Is it really hard to get them right? What examples of poor form do you see?

    bad set up.
    rounding of the back during any part of the lift.
    You can't tell looking but when people complain about knee problems they might have hip mobility issues.
    when they come out the hole they go up too fast with legs and it looks kind of like a good morning hybrid with squats.
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
    GuitarJerry wrote: »
    You can injure yourself if you do them wrong with poor form. I see it in the gym all the time, and I cringe. I think some people just stop because they have pain. But, it's not because they are bad, it's because they are doing them wrong. There are many different ways to get to do them right. YouTube, or hire a trainer. Just because someone is ripped doesn't mean they know what they are doing. I heard a guy in the gym telling some woman that no one HAS to do squats. And, that's true, but I think its poor advice if someone wants to try it.

    no one has to squat. all you have to do is eat, sleep, breathe, drink, and maintain a reasonable body temperature.

    wait, and squat. you have to squat. my bad.
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
    refuseresist wrote: »
    Is it really hard to get them right? What examples of poor form do you see?
    It's not that it's hard to get them right, it's that so many people do them incorrectly. Especially when you factor in that, at most commercial gyms, you're WAY more likely to see people squatting on the Smith machine than you are to see people using a squat rack or cage. I'm at the point where I stop and notice when someone is squatting correctly, to depth, because it's so rare (and seeing someone break parallel with a good amount of weight on the bar is a thing of beauty),

  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,321 Member
    yopeeps025 wrote: »
    trusty48 wrote: »
    Thanks so much for the advice everyone! Thanks especially to those who have knee and back issues and reported that they can do these exercises safely.

    This confirms my original feelings that my exercise routine is basically safe. Going forward, I will continue to do it but will stay cautious.

    To be fair to my friend, he has been working out longer than I've been alive and has seen a lot. He knows that over the long-term seemingly innocuous habits can catch up to you. Still, on this point we will have to respectfully disagree.

    Sounds like he sees a lot of people using wrong form which can= sideline injury.

    I was going to say the same thing. Injuries like he is mentioning almost always have to do with bad form with insufficient or incorrect warm up following close behind (things like no warm up or doing static stretching before exercise thinking it is a warm up). Warm up properly, always work at getting form perfect, and long term problems are much reduced.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    edited May 2015
    trusty48 wrote: »
    But then again we don't know how you got your knee injury? hahaha
    wrote:

    I almost fell off a rock wall while trying to clean my heat pump. Caught myself before falling but twisted my leg. :(

    For the record, he is completely against anybody doing any squats with any amount of weight. He had stories of friends he used to lift with that had knee replacements. He said he stopped the exercises a few years ago due to lower back concerns.

    Also, I'm in good shape overall and my core muscles are quite strong. There is nothing that makes me especially high risk for injury.

    Here's my question. These friends - did they do any other exercise? Play any sports? Families have a history of joint issues? How exactly would your friend know that it was weight lifting that did the damage?

    My gym is associated with a major health center and there's lots of PT being done there. The thing that strikes me is that of the PTs have many of their clients doing free weights, including squats and deadlifts. Modified as necessary, of course.
  • KombuchaCat
    KombuchaCat Posts: 834 Member
    I can understand being conflicted about this. Obviously this guy is doing something right if he's kept himself in good shape into his 50's. However that doesn't mean that some of his advice may be based on outdated ideas. I think squats and deadlifts are fine if you do them with proper form and go to your edge without overduing it.
  • icrushit
    icrushit Posts: 773 Member
    edited May 2015
    I've actually found deep bodyweight squats ("posterior!" to heels) a great way to rehab the knees, and lunges too to a lesser extent. Lunges usually when my knees are in a better place though. I admit though if I were carrying an injury in an area, I personally wouldn't be inclined towards load bearing movements on that area, as I would prefer to back off that area for a little, rather than run the risk of injury and have a longer break forced on me.
  • Ilikelamps
    Ilikelamps Posts: 482 Member
    draznyth wrote: »
    GuitarJerry wrote: »
    You can injure yourself if you do them wrong with poor form. I see it in the gym all the time, and I cringe. I think some people just stop because they have pain. But, it's not because they are bad, it's because they are doing them wrong. There are many different ways to get to do them right. YouTube, or hire a trainer. Just because someone is ripped doesn't mean they know what they are doing. I heard a guy in the gym telling some woman that no one HAS to do squats. And, that's true, but I think its poor advice if someone wants to try it.

    no one has to squat. all you have to do is eat, sleep, breathe, drink, and maintain a reasonable body temperature.

    wait, and squat. you have to squat. my bad.

    are you using reasonable body temperature to insinuate good looking people vs non good looking people!???
  • trusty48
    trusty48 Posts: 75 Member
    There is a lot of good advice about proper form here- my guess is that my friend may have learned improper form and subsequently got injured. His reaction was negative because of his painful memories.

    For the record- he's not a trainer or a guru, just a friend. I was asking his advice because I knew he had knee injuries and wanted his advice on my knee. (Incidentally, he recommended RICE and to get it checked out if it didn't improve quickly- which thankfully it has).

  • trusty48
    trusty48 Posts: 75 Member
    KombuchaCat wrote: »
    I can understand being conflicted about this. Obviously this guy is doing something right if he's kept himself in good shape into his 50's. However that doesn't mean that some of his advice may be based on outdated ideas. I think squats and deadlifts are fine if you do them with proper form and go to your edge without overduing it.

    This is what I think too.

    My suspicion is that he learned how to do squats from his coaches in high school/college- which was more than a few years ago.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    draznyth wrote: »
    GuitarJerry wrote: »
    You can injure yourself if you do them wrong with poor form. I see it in the gym all the time, and I cringe. I think some people just stop because they have pain. But, it's not because they are bad, it's because they are doing them wrong. There are many different ways to get to do them right. YouTube, or hire a trainer. Just because someone is ripped doesn't mean they know what they are doing. I heard a guy in the gym telling some woman that no one HAS to do squats. And, that's true, but I think its poor advice if someone wants to try it.

    no one has to squat. all you have to do is eat, sleep, breathe, drink, and maintain a reasonable body temperature.

    wait, and squat. you have to squat. my bad.

    Clearly. Friends don't let friends skip leg day.

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