Squats? Deadlifts? Safe or too risky?

trusty48

Wanted some community advice on this because I had a heated discussion with a friend and fitness mentor yesterday about the safety of squats and deadlifts for the knees and lower back.

Essentially, I injured my knee last weekend and commented that I wouldn't be able to do squats for awhile at which point he responded with shock that I was engaging in such a risky exercise. Honestly, I didn't consider that squats were risky for me since I'm a small female using relatively light weights.

I usually listen to his advice because he's in his mid fifties, a former athlete and in terrific shape This time, I'm not so sure though. His suggestion was to replace the squats with a leg press machine because it's safer and to consider Pilates exercises to strengthen the smaller core and balance muscles.

Obviously, due to my injury I won't be doing much of anything for awhile. However, I really like the squats and deadlifts because they seem like such good full-body exercise. That said, I want my joints and back to last my entire life and if that means cutting out certain exercises I will do it.

Would like to hear from experienced people on how safe these exercises are and if there are better alternatives.

jemhh

With good form and using a load appropriate for your abilities, they are safe exercises. If your form is off and if you're trying to lift too much weight, yes they are risky. But that's common sense.

You likely use squatting motions and deadlifting motions in your everyday life. Practicing them through exercise, and getting stronger while doing it, will make your everyday life that much easier.

rileysowner

Squats are not ant more dangerous that leg presses. I have seen people injure themselves with both exercises. What is different is you get much more for your exercise time from squats. Just make sure your form is good.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Are you doing the exercises properly, focusing on form, and with the right right equipment? Do you listen to your body when it's injured and not push yourself?

If so, ignore that guy.

Samenamenewlook

I too have back and knee issues and was told in the past that deadlifts and squats were dangerous. Deadlifts used to hurt actually ... but, it was not the movement itself that caused problems, but my form. Once my form improved, all issues have gone away. They are excellent exercises, and I wouldn't trade them for anything! That being said, if you're hurt be careful and ease back in to what you were doing. Too much too early can cause problems no matter what the exercise is.

JoRocka

squats = having to sit down to poop.

diving out of a plane headfirst = risky.

yeah there are inherent risks with anything you do- but the stuff you do in the gym with proper education are not THAT risky.

sofaking6

I have a bad knee (botched ACL replacement) and a back lower back (severed ligaments in a car crash) and I do both and they have been very helpful for me. My back is much less chronically painful and I can sit/stand in positions for much longer than I used to be able to without it seizing up. And of course the added strength in my legs just takes pressure off of my knee, especially going up/down stairs. I do them with a 10 lb dumbbell in each hand.

krmullig

It's all dependent on if you do the exercises properly. I had the unfortunate experience seeing a video of a woman's knee buckling backwards on a leg press machine, obviously those can cause some serious injuries as well. Any exercise is dangerous if performed improperly. Just make sure you have proper form and listen to your body if it says your weights are too much.

365andstillalive

trusty48 wrote: »

His suggestion was to replace the squats with a leg press machine because it's safer and to consider Pilates exercises to strengthen the smaller core and balance muscles.

This sounds to me like he's not telling you to get rid of the squats entirely long term, but has concerns about the stability in your back and other muscles, which especially if you aren't in good shape, is fair.

Weighted squats and deadlifts are fine and perfectly safe if you're doing them with reasonable weights/reps and have the core strength to allow you to add weight. So long as you're doing your best to be safe, watch your form, and are upping your weight on a reasonable time table based on your ability to actually lift it, you're probably good.

But then again we don't know how you got your knee injury? hahaha

netgrrl

I had concerns initially because I am an overweight, 56 y/o female with some standard "old age" creakiness in my knees. Truth to tell, I have an easier time doing barbell squats than I do a body weight squat. The weight changes my center of gravity and actually takes some of the work off my knees. I started out with just the bar, adding 5lb each workout so that I could work on my form. I've ready and watch videos and still watch them again sometimes just for a reminder. I don't believe squats done properly are harmful. I don't believe any machine can take the place of natural movement. My worst set is the warm-up set with just the bar! I'm stiff and creaky. By the time I am finished (I do 5x5) I am much more flexible.

cathipa

No more risky than any other exercise. If you don't perform correctly (again with any exercise) there is always risk for injury.

refuseresist

Squats and deadlifts make injury less likely as they strengthen the muscles you use in everyday life

thesupremeforce

Squats and leg presses aren't the same thing, nor do they do the same things.
There are no real alternatives to squats and deadlifts, which is why people do them.

skeo

netgrrl wrote: »

I had concerns initially because I am an overweight, 56 y/o female with some standard "old age" creakiness in my knees. Truth to tell, I have an easier time doing barbell squats than I do a body weight squat. The weight changes my center of gravity and actually takes some of the work off my knees. I started out with just the bar, adding 5lb each workout so that I could work on my form. I've ready and watch videos and still watch them again sometimes just for a reminder. I don't believe squats done properly are harmful. I don't believe any machine can take the place of natural movement. My worst set is the warm-up set with just the bar! I'm stiff and creaky. By the time I am finished (I do 5x5) I am much more flexible.

I am the same way "net" I hate warming up with just body weight or an empty bar, but it must be done. As the weight progresses, the lift feels better, my knees feel better.

OP, was your knee injury a result of the squat or deadlift? I also am with everyone else, done with proper form and full range of motion, these are not harmful.

trusty48

But then again we don't know how you got your knee injury? hahaha [/quote]

I almost fell off a rock wall while trying to clean my heat pump. Caught myself before falling but twisted my leg.

For the record, he is completely against anybody doing any squats with any amount of weight. He had stories of friends he used to lift with that had knee replacements. He said he stopped the exercises a few years ago due to lower back concerns.

Also, I'm in good shape overall and my core muscles are quite strong. There is nothing that makes me especially high risk for injury.

yopeeps025

trusty48 wrote: »

But then again we don't know how you got your knee injury? hahaha

I almost fell off a rock wall while trying to clean my heat pump. Caught myself before falling but twisted my leg.

For the record, he is completely against anybody doing any squats with any amount of weight. He had stories of friends he used to lift with that had knee replacements. He said he stopped the exercises a few years ago due to lower back concerns.

Also, I'm in good shape overall and my core muscles are quite strong. There is nothing that makes me especially high risk for injury.

That trainer needs to do more research on squat form if injuries like that occur.

noclady1995

krmullig wrote: »

It's all dependent on if you do the exercises properly. I had the unfortunate experience seeing a video of a woman's knee buckling backwards on a leg press machine, obviously those can cause some serious injuries as well. Any exercise is dangerous if performed improperly. Just make sure you have proper form and listen to your body if it says your weights are too much.

Ouch! I cringed after I read that! Yikes!

yopeeps025

noclady1995 wrote: »

krmullig wrote: »

It's all dependent on if you do the exercises properly. I had the unfortunate experience seeing a video of a woman's knee buckling backwards on a leg press machine, obviously those can cause some serious injuries as well. Any exercise is dangerous if performed improperly. Just make sure you have proper form and listen to your body if it says your weights are too much.

Ouch! I cringed after I read that! Yikes!

I watched a guy at my school barely squat 225. then tries to squat 275 with spotter and still falls backwards.

trusty48

Thanks so much for the advice everyone! Thanks especially to those who have knee and back issues and reported that they can do these exercises safely.

This confirms my original feelings that my exercise routine is basically safe. Going forward, I will continue to do it but will stay cautious.

To be fair to my friend, he has been working out longer than I've been alive and has seen a lot. He knows that over the long-term seemingly innocuous habits can catch up to you. Still, on this point we will have to respectfully disagree.

yopeeps025

trusty48 wrote: »

Thanks so much for the advice everyone! Thanks especially to those who have knee and back issues and reported that they can do these exercises safely.

This confirms my original feelings that my exercise routine is basically safe. Going forward, I will continue to do it but will stay cautious.

To be fair to my friend, he has been working out longer than I've been alive and has seen a lot. He knows that over the long-term seemingly innocuous habits can catch up to you. Still, on this point we will have to respectfully disagree.

Sounds like he sees a lot of people using wrong form which can= sideline injury.

SonyaCele

they are safe if done right.

beastmode_kitty

Research research research proper form!! There are variations to these kind of lifts, especially squats.

MariaChele85

With proper form, you shouldnt worry about your knees. I once had a knee injury, i mean it hurt so bad just to put on pants in the morning. But i found that squats actually helped me.

trusty48

preciouskitten wrote: »

Research research research proper form!! There are variations to these kind of lifts, especially squats.

After reading advice on this forum, I started using the forms outlined in the strong lifts 5x5 program. The consensus seems to be that these are good and the videos and descriptions of the technique are excellent.

cheshirecatastrophe

JoRocka wrote: »

squats = having to sit down to poop.

diving out of a plane headfirst = risky.

yeah there are inherent risks with anything you do- but the stuff you do in the gym with proper education are not THAT risky.

Actually also quite safe, with proper training and equipment.

amusedmonkey

As someone with back problems I can tell you: leg press is one of the worst things you can do for your lower back if you're prone to herniating and no good form can lessen that risk (same for crunches by the way). Squats with a good form are actually safer in that regard.

DopeItUp

Way too risky. You might accidentally become a badass. I'd stick with the pink weights and the machines with lots of reps. Well, lots of reps might give you tendonitis. Better to stick with yoga and prancercise and pilates.

FitForL1fe

your friend thinks squats are a "risky exercise" and that the leg press is safer..?



former athlete...was he a powerlifter or bodybuilder..? or did he play soccer? lol...

lishie_rebooted

I've got a broken fibula and I'm still deadlifting and doing unweighted squats.
[these exercises have been approved by a licensed medical professional with the caveat that if it hurts, I must stop.]

Without squats, my knees actually hurt because I have PFS.
Squats (along with lunges and some other stuff) HELP my knees and I'm in less pain.

slucki01

I have a bad knee (arthritis) and I do squats daily -- they're actually recommended by physical therapists for knees as long as you use good form. Be sure that when you squat you don't let your knee go too far forward -- keep it behind your toes. My PT told me that I should avoid lunges and I find that they aggravate my knee. Can't advise you on deadlifts but I suspect they're fine if done properly. Use your body as a guide -- if it hurts, don't do it.

Whittedo

I have arthritis in both knees and was in constant pain. I have been a weekly patient of a physio therapist for almost two years. I was scared of even trying squats or deadlifts, but after being on MFP for a while I decided to try both as part of an overall Ice Cream Fitness lifting program. My PT's comments were go for it and then he showed me the proper form for both. Between the weight loss and the strengthening of my quads and glutes I now run over 6 km 4x a week and walk over 10 km a day with pain that is now completely manageable. I have "fired" my PT, an occasion which he celebrated. My suggestion is find a new fitness guru.