The Clean Eating Myth
Options
Replies
-
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »I often run or lift shortly after eating a 1200 calorie meal. I can't imagine trying to do anything after eating six and a half pounds of carrots. (I can't imagine getting even half of that down my throat.)
and it can be dangerous. Didn't you had about the guy who ODed on carrots...? Or I think it was carrot juice. Either way that's a very dangerous path you'd tread my friend.
0 -
billieljaime wrote: »billieljaime wrote: »billieljaime wrote: »I think for the purpose of optimum all around health one should strive to make the most nutritiously sound food choices 85 percent of your life.
For the purpose of sound mental health taking a day off and eating your calories in pop tarts is also important as well, so is the occasional cake and other "devilish" food items. This should comprise 15 percent of your life.
Mathematically out of every one hundred days if 85 of them are sound nutritious days and 15 of those days you have a piece of cake in moderation I would not call this un clean. I would call it keeping my sanity, using moderation, being a human and caving to occasional weaknesses and living life.
Is it clean or dirty. I don't know at the end of the month or year my macros line up pretty much where I want them, so do my calories, along with my vitamins minerals, sodium.
Science.
Wait. I was with you (sort of) on the 85/15 split, but your math doesn't add up. So I have to eat clean for 85 days out of 100, but then the 15 other days, I only get one piece of cake? That's not 15% of my total calories in "unclean" food. Why can't I eat a piece of cake on all 100 days, if it is no more than 15% of my daily calories and I've hit my other nutritional goals? Does the cake invalidate the other foods?
Also, if you could go ahead and tell me what makes cake, which is made up of eggs, flour, milk, oil, cocoa, and sugar "unclean", that would be awesome.
Yes u can break it up daily if you like and have cake everyday
I was just trying to break it down literally
You can have cake everyday and fill in the rest with nutritional items.
And I think "unclean" cake is defined as store bought with bleached refined flour added sugar and toxins
Personally I would eat both the cakes for a treat
You are saying all the right things, but what toxins do you think are in store bought cake?
Also, you said you can't have daily treats because you are tiny. How tiny? I'm no giant at 5'2 and I eat 1800-2000 cals and fit in those treats every day and still lose.
I don't think there's any toxins, the clean eating people do!
5'3" weight unknown size 2-4 small frame last known weight 120ish current maintenece around 1480, some days I can't afford cake!!!!!! Unless I work out
I am going through a rough time right now working third shift 52 hours a week I don't get in the 3-4 workouts I like but when the overtime clears (after vk season) and I get all my scheduled workouts in my calls bump up to 1600-2000 maintenance depending on my shift/routine.
My coals will go back up in Sept after VK season and overtime season is over, right now I am just maintaining/surviving. I have no weight to lose, lost over 100 lbs twice in my life.
Just celebrated ende of year two start of year 3 on mfp and I did not get here by "clean" or "dirty" foods I ate all the foods, had good and bad days
Now that post, I can 100% agree with!
0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »girlviernes wrote: »I lose much more weight on a diet that includes processed foods because I will actually keep to that diet. I'm having a lot of success eating what I'm used to eating.
If I tried to eat "clean" 100% of the time I would give up completely, go back to my old way of eating, and then just keep slowly gaining weight. I think that many of the people pushing "clean" diets are perfectly happy eating that way.
If you are eating a diet that satisfies you, you are much more likely to have success with it. "Clean" eaters may actually lose more weight if they comply with their diet more consistently when they eat that way than they do otherwise.
Whatever is most comfortable for the individual is what is most likely to work long-term.
This. Find what you buy into and what enables you to eat a variety, get the macros/micros you need and the right calorie deficit, and that you most easily can follow long-term.
If that isn't true, it doesn't matter one iota if there is some small advantage to one eating plan or another. And, any advantage is frankly speculative at this point with the bulk of studies pointing to the dodo effect with diet plans. People lose the same amount, regain the same amount, and when eating ad libitum end up pretty much consuming the same macros.
Okay - eat 1500 calories of cake - and I will eat 1500 calories of pure nutritious food (as I do now but MORE) and I will flat out not only lose fat pounds but I will retain my muscle mass over the course of one year.
I did the above - it doesn't work. DOESN'T WORK.
You can't outrun a bad diet.
I can't help but notice that you have a very unhealthy relationship with chocolate cake. Why is it that chocoalte cake is the answer to every discussion about clean eating or a balanced diet? Did chocolate cake hurt you somehow?
I would like to interject here. The poster stated cake not chocolate cake. It very well could be lemon cake...details people.
0 -
When I rate the relative health of a diet, I revert to my diabetic training and I look at macros. Not it's relative "cleanliness".
Here's how I compare a balanced CICO diet from a "clean" diet, using the WHO cluster classification for the North American diet. Can you spot the difference?
If you were wondering, the classes of foods I put under "other" include grams of tea, beer, alcohol, herbs, sauces, and spices.
0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »So instead of telling people "calories are the only thing that matters for weight loss", which I've seen repeated again and again on this forum, why not modify that advice to "it's ok to get 15% of your calories from junk (or insert word of your choice) if you want to, but no more or you'll be missing out on nutrition".
We do, but facts matter.
So we both say "for weight loss, calories are what matter." And "what you eat will probably affect how good you feel while on a calorie deficit, whether you are able to sustain it, and whether you will be energetic enough to exercise" and also "of course, what you eat matters for health/nutrition."
In addition, if asked whether one could eat 1500 calories of cake and still lose weight (or some such)--which is a bizarre thing to occur to anyone, again--I always do say "in theory, if you could manage that and felt sufficiently good while doing it that you could keep up your normal activity, but I personally could not and prefer to eat in a way that makes me feel good."
The bigger question is why people seem to jump from person B--someone who eats in a moderate fashion, a mostly nutritious diet--to 1500 calories of cake? Do you secretly want to eat only cake? Because frankly that's weird, and yet it's what it sounds like.
0 -
When I rate the relative health of a diet, I revert to my diabetic training and I look at macros. Not it's relative "cleanliness".
Here's how I compare a balanced CICO diet from a "clean" diet, using the WHO cluster classification for the North American diet. Can you spot the difference?
If you were wondering, the classes of foods I put under "other" include grams of tea, beer, alcohol, herbs, sauces, and spices.
Do you think a diabetic diet is a 'balanced CICO diet" for everyone? At 6.5% fat?0 -
kiekomakino890 wrote: »But doesn't processed food take less energy to process? That being said, you don't absorb 100% of the calories you intake, so you may absorb say 80 calories worth of donuts out of 100, and 65 calories worth of carrots since they are harder to digest.
So if the person eating the doughnut also fills their diet with carrots, salad, lean meats, eggs, yogurt and beans, then how do you think the inclusion of a doughnut will negatively impact their overall health?
0 -
I'm not suggesting the above ratio is ideal, and it's in grams not calories. This is how the North American diet currently shakes out.0
-
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »So instead of telling people "calories are the only thing that matters for weight loss", which I've seen repeated again and again on this forum, why not modify that advice to "it's ok to get 15% of your calories from junk (or insert word of your choice) if you want to, but no more or you'll be missing out on nutrition".
It's been said repeatedly that for weight loss, calories are king, and for body composition and well-being, macros/micros matter. But even that doesn't address clean vs. unclean.
If you and I eat essentially the same foods, but I get mine pre-cooked from a can or frozen dinner, then I might be getting more salt, and some preservatives, and there might be some diminished micronutrients. But do you think those things happen at a rate that will negatively impact my health? That would be the argument of clean vs. unclean. Bringing differences in macros is irrelevant, because I can match your macros and still not eat clean.
0 -
billieljaime wrote: »Because I have had days I have made a conscience choice to eat my calorie allotment in cake.....no regrets.....
Because I know I will like it, it won't kill me and the next day won't be a day of cake but of more nutritional choices.
Also because people get weak and do dumb stuff and eat their calories in junk one day and it is ok, one day a couple times a month or 15-20 percent of the time won't kill you.
I don't think u should eat your calories in cake everyday though. I think after a while you would feel poorly.
I'm actually not judging one day--I can imagine one day of just about anything--but the idea that someone would think that anyone considered a diet of only cake, all the time (but only 1500 calories worth), to be desirable and something we'd all choose to do, if not warned away or scared into thinking we'd get fat.
I don't think anyone in the "moderate" camp eats that way. Such people exist only in the imaginations of the "clean" eaters, which causes me to wonder why it's assumed that they are so common.
0 -
I'm not suggesting the above ratio is ideal, and it's in grams not calories. This is how the North American diet currently shakes out.
If it's supposed to be indicating grams the numbers on it make no sense. What do the 53.5%, 28% and 13.5% stand for?
And you've posted the same picture twice, so there's nothing to compare.0 -
It's easier to eat 1500 clean than 1500 junk. They doc who ate 1500 in junk food has strong will power and a fixed period to focus on (he's a doctor!). You can eat 1500 calories of doritos and be REALLY hungry throughout the day -- who in the normal population can sustain that? No one. I'm eating less than 1500 calories per day, but my macros are like ~50g carb, 160 g protein, 60-80g fat and i feel fine. This is 'good' food like chicken, greek yogurt, cheese, avocados, some chocolate, vegetables, etc.
Please point to any post in this thread, or any other thread in the history of MFP, where someone suggested that someone should eat nothing but 1500 calories of doritos all day long.
I will never fail to be astounded that the argument from clean eaters is that they get to eat a variety of foods, while the alternative is one single food, all day, every day. Whether it be cake (brought up in this thread) or doritos (see quoted post above) or donuts (often referenced in other threads).
I am completely onboard with CICO.
But I am also trying to lose weight to feel better. And you feel better when you eat vitamin rich products than when you eat doritos/donuts/cake. And a 500 calorie salad with protein and healthy fat is going to be more satiating than 500 calories of the aforementioned stuff. So, while on a weight basis alone there probably isn't a large chasm between the two, there are still differences in how you feel when you eat more clean food vs more junk food.
We run around the same arguments all the time. The truth is many people can stick with clean diets longer because they don't get the same cravings, etc.
I want to see you eat 3500 calories worth of salad.0 -
The pro-clean-eating people are, as usual.janejellyroll wrote: »It's easier to eat 1500 clean than 1500 junk. They doc who ate 1500 in junk food has strong will power and a fixed period to focus on (he's a doctor!). You can eat 1500 calories of doritos and be REALLY hungry throughout the day -- who in the normal population can sustain that? No one. I'm eating less than 1500 calories per day, but my macros are like ~50g carb, 160 g protein, 60-80g fat and i feel fine. This is 'good' food like chicken, greek yogurt, cheese, avocados, some chocolate, vegetables, etc.
Please point to any post in this thread, or any other thread in the history of MFP, where someone suggested that someone should eat nothing but 1500 calories of doritos all day long.
I will never fail to be astounded that the argument from clean eaters is that they get to eat a variety of foods, while the alternative is one single food, all day, every day. Whether it be cake (brought up in this thread) or doritos (see quoted post above) or donuts (often referenced in other threads).
I am completely onboard with CICO.
But I am also trying to lose weight to feel better. And you feel better when you eat vitamin rich products than when you eat doritos/donuts/cake. And a 500 calorie salad with protein and fat is going to be more satiating than the aforementioned stuff. So, while on a weight basis alone there probably isn't a large chasm, there are still differences in how you feel when you eat more clean food vs more junk food.
We run around the same arguments all the time. The truth is many people can stick with clean diets longer because they don't get the same cravings, etc.
You are missing the point. Who said to eat doritos/donut/cake instead of vitamin rich products? What they said was if you eat the 500 calorie salad with protein and fat, eat other nutritionally dense foods throughout the day, and then choose to top your day off with 200 cals of gelato, or oreos, there is nothing wrong with that.
Here is my pre-logged day so far:
Breakfast: Greek Yogurt, Coffee with Coffeemate creamer
Lunch: leftover grilled tilapia with homemade mango avocado salsa and a package of frozen mixed vegetables
Snack: Luna Protein Bar
Dinner: chicken sausage saute with squash and zucchini and a wedge of laughing cow cheese, over either pasta or rice (need to see what's in the pantry).
That's about 1200 cals. I have close to 700 left. I will probably try to get some protein in, maybe some peanut butter or another greek yogurt, but I will still have calories left over. Wine and Gelato will likely be my go to's.
Is my day unhealthy because of the gelato? Because many of the foods were processed?
I'm not arguing your diet at all. Looks great to me. Merely the notion that it doesn't matter where your calories come from. Because if you aren't eating vitamin rich foods it IS going to be more difficult to stay within your calories, to stick to the diet long term, etc.
Who is arguing against eating vitamin-rich foods?
0 -
billieljaime wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »So instead of telling people "calories are the only thing that matters for weight loss", which I've seen repeated again and again on this forum, why not modify that advice to "it's ok to get 15% of your calories from junk (or insert word of your choice) if you want to, but no more or you'll be missing out on nutrition".
We do, but facts matter.
So we both say "for weight loss, calories are what matter." And "what you eat will probably affect how good you feel while on a calorie deficit, whether you are able to sustain it, and whether you will be energetic enough to exercise" and also "of course, what you eat matters for health/nutrition."
In addition, if asked whether one could eat 1500 calories of cake and still lose weight (or some such)--which is a bizarre thing to occur to anyone, again--I always do say "in theory, if you could manage that and felt sufficiently good while doing it that you could keep up your normal activity, but I personally could not and prefer to eat in a way that makes me feel good."
The bigger question is why people seem to jump from person B--someone who eats in a moderate fashion, a mostly nutritious diet--to 1500 calories of cake? Do you secretly want to eat only cake? Because frankly that's weird, and yet it's what it sounds like.
Because it's not really advice calories are all that matters for weight loss
80/20 or 85/15 is just my personal preferences
I'm not sure what you mean in response to my post.
Oh, is this a response to Chrysalid?0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392.1K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.9K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 403 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 999 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions