The Clean Eating Myth
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I would have a very difficult time meeting my fiber and protein goals if it were not for the ultra-processed pre-packaged goodness of dirty, dirty Quest bars.
I eat tons of fresh veggies, lean meats, salads, whole grains, legumes, and probably half of my meals are made from scratch. I even often make my own pasta and bread.
However, the other half of my diet is filled with Taco Bell, prepackaged pasta and bread, canned beans, frozen veggies, pre-marinated meat products, etc. etc. etc. And, of course, Quest bars.
Eating "clean" would make me feel miserable and deprived, and I would have a hard time hitting my macros (and micros as well, without some fortified foods...I don't get enough calcium or iron.) If I ate strictly clean, I would end up giving up.
I'm happy that it works for some of you. But to claim that it is necessary for good health or for weight loss is absolutely false. Libelous, even
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You people love to argue about anything - this is in the first page of this thread along with a doctor's study. Enjoy whatever it is you think you guys are talking about. Should probably start a new thread with an agenda and focus.It's easier to eat 1500 clean than 1500 junk. They doc who ate 1500 in junk food has strong will power and a fixed period to focus on (he's a doctor!). You can eat 1500 calories of doritos and be REALLY hungry throughout the day -- who in the normal population can sustain that? No one. I'm eating less than 1500 calories per day, but my macros are like ~50g carb, 160 g protein, 60-80g fat and i feel fine. This is 'good' food like chicken, greek yogurt, cheese, avocados, some chocolate, vegetables, etc.
Please point to any post in this thread, or any other thread in the history of MFP, where someone suggested that someone should eat nothing but 1500 calories of doritos all day long.
I will never fail to be astounded that the argument from clean eaters is that they get to eat a variety of foods, while the alternative is one single food, all day, every day. Whether it be cake (brought up in this thread) or doritos (see quoted post above) or donuts (often referenced in other threads).
The twinkie diet link? God, I actually wish people would stop posting that link. Posting it, to prove that you can lose weight eating nothing but Twinkies (which for the record, he didn't do - he ate 2/3 "junk" and 1/3 "not junk") does not mean that the posters on here are suggesting that someone else should do that. It is just an example meant to demonstrate that calorie deficit is what matters for weight loss.
The people on here that you say love to argue are the ones suggesting that people get the majority of their calories from nutrient dense foods and when their macros/micros are met, then it is ok to fit a treat in moderation.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
Yes, and again why does not eating "clean" mean you don't have a nutritious diet?
I'm on a logging break, but today:
2 egg omelet with spinach, broccoli, zucchini, and feta plus cottage cheese and some blueberries.
Lebanese chicken flatbread sandwich from Pret a Manger (in case you care: Chargrilled Chicken (antibiotic-free) mixed with our Lebanese dip, a delicious red sauce made with roasted red peppers, sunflower seeds, tamarind, and lemon juice. It's topped with fresh mint and cilantro and rolled in a Middle Eastern-style flatbread).
Tonight: leftover stew based on a West African recipe but highly modified: turkey leg, canned tomatoes, zucchini and squash, carrots and celery and onions, with added paste made (by me) of ginger, garlic, and peanuts, and plantains. I'll probably add some greens of some sort, maybe kale since I had spinach earlier.
Since I will have leftover calories I will probably have some ice cream. I also might have a protein bar at some point.
I try to make lunch more often than not, but this is a pretty typical day for when I buy lunch.
Look...eat whatever you want to eat, I really don't care lol.
I'm not a strictly clean eater; everyone has their own idea of what clean eating is. I eat a good balance of healthy food and treat myself often. It's the reason I have been successful with losing weight because I don't deprive myself.
People get way too defensive over things that are personal choices.0 -
billieljaime wrote: »billieljaime wrote: »I think for the purpose of optimum all around health one should strive to make the most nutritiously sound food choices 85 percent of your life.
For the purpose of sound mental health taking a day off and eating your calories in pop tarts is also important as well, so is the occasional cake and other "devilish" food items. This should comprise 15 percent of your life.
Mathematically out of every one hundred days if 85 of them are sound nutritious days and 15 of those days you have a piece of cake in moderation I would not call this un clean. I would call it keeping my sanity, using moderation, being a human and caving to occasional weaknesses and living life.
Is it clean or dirty. I don't know at the end of the month or year my macros line up pretty much where I want them, so do my calories, along with my vitamins minerals, sodium.
Science.
Wait. I was with you (sort of) on the 85/15 split, but your math doesn't add up. So I have to eat clean for 85 days out of 100, but then the 15 other days, I only get one piece of cake? That's not 15% of my total calories in "unclean" food. Why can't I eat a piece of cake on all 100 days, if it is no more than 15% of my daily calories and I've hit my other nutritional goals? Does the cake invalidate the other foods?
Also, if you could go ahead and tell me what makes cake, which is made up of eggs, flour, milk, oil, cocoa, and sugar "unclean", that would be awesome.
Yes u can break it up daily if you like and have cake everyday
I was just trying to break it down literally
You can have cake everyday and fill in the rest with nutritional items.
And I think "unclean" cake is defined as store bought with bleached refined flour added sugar and toxins
Personally I would eat both the cakes for a treat
You are saying all the right things, but what toxins do you think are in store bought cake?
Also, you said you can't have daily treats because you are tiny. How tiny? I'm no giant at 5'2 and I eat 1800-2000 cals and fit in those treats every day and still lose.
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Well I got big because I ate the foods I liked which included a robust amount of junk food. So having revered members of this community tell me I can eat that stuff, just to measure and track it was a way for me to deal with my journey back with a little more comfort. But in my world, eating small portions of "bad" foods simply didn't work. I eat as well as I can but I am decidedly in the moderation camp. But it took me some experience to get back to that.
This sounds successful and quite different from what you seemed to be saying, which is that eating in moderation and not cutting out the foods you like (but eat them within your calories and in the context of a healthy overall diet) somehow="eat nothing but junk food."0 -
Terpnista84 wrote: »People get way too defensive over things that are personal choices.
I just get tired of the strawmen, specifically that not eating clean=eating "only junk" or nothing but a pizza a day or results in you not eating a nutritious diet or having negative health outcomes.
It's especially puzzling when from someone like you who says that she doesn't eat "clean" herself, but what sounds like a typical "moderate" diet.
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But doesn't processed food take less energy to process? That being said, you don't absorb 100% of the calories you intake, so you may absorb say 80 calories worth of donuts out of 100, and 65 calories worth of carrots since they are harder to digest.0
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Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
Once again, I feel like we are on the same page, yet people just keep saying one little thing that I disagree with. I'm not sure where someone was advocating that you save all your calories and eat one meal just of pizza and nothing else? Can you point that out to me? I agree, that would not be teaching someone healthy habits. But if you eat in moderation, as you state, then wouldn't you agree that there is nothing wrong with eating a couple of slices of pizza (even a calorie dense, pepperoni and sausage pizza from Dominos is about 300 cals/slice) with a salad for dinner. I could do that once a week, or even daily, and it wouldn't blow my calorie budget. I make homemade pizza on the grill with chicken, artichokes, roasted red peppers, spinach, and pesto instead of tomato sauce and it is about 700 cals for half the pizza.
There is a lot of misinterpretation in this thread because people are getting defensive about their food choices. I love pizza. I also love alcohol and I love the cookies and cream ice-cream at Aldi's (matter of fact, I'm buying some today because I'm out lol)
If you are fitting it into your calorie goals, great! So am I. But I could never have long-term success eating only unhealthy food on a daily basis whether I stay in my calorie goal or not (I'm not saying you are or anyone else is). What I am saying is, I try to balance healthy eating with treats. And yes there are occasions where I do save my calories for happy hour or for pizza. But I'm not going to eat consistently bad throughout the day regardless of whether I have the calories from exercise because MY goal is not only weight loss but good nutrition. And I believe having good nutrition 80% of the time will give ME a better chance of sustaining the weight loss. If you want to eat whatever you please provided you stay under your goal- wonderful. But I don't want to eat these things all the time.0 -
Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
huh? I can eat 1500 calories in a "clean" meal very easily.
I can't. *shrug*0 -
So instead of telling people "calories are the only thing that matters for weight loss", which I've seen repeated again and again on this forum, why not modify that advice to "it's ok to get 15% of your calories from junk (or insert word of your choice) if you want to, but no more or you'll be missing out on nutrition".
I would think that would be agreeable to both the clean and dirty members of the community?
When the former line is spouted so often, things like The Twinkie Diet naturally get brought up. Then people get annoyed because they say they obviously didn't mean a person should only eat Twinkies. But if you tell people calories are the only thing that matters, then that is how it could rightfully be interpreted.
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My mom used to say, "my house isn't clean, it's not dirty, it's just.... a home". I need to find a statement like that to describe my diet.0
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Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
Interesting that you are talking in such absolutes as if all those things you experience happen to everyone else. Some of us just have more self control than you do
All those negative things you said will happen, don't happen to me, can you tell me why they don't? If they will can you tell me when they will so I can prepare??
Everything I stated applies to me, not you. If it makes you feel better, add "my" to that last sentence so that it reads "For MY long term success" Feel better?0 -
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Terpnista84 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
Yes, and again why does not eating "clean" mean you don't have a nutritious diet?
I'm on a logging break, but today:
2 egg omelet with spinach, broccoli, zucchini, and feta plus cottage cheese and some blueberries.
Lebanese chicken flatbread sandwich from Pret a Manger (in case you care: Chargrilled Chicken (antibiotic-free) mixed with our Lebanese dip, a delicious red sauce made with roasted red peppers, sunflower seeds, tamarind, and lemon juice. It's topped with fresh mint and cilantro and rolled in a Middle Eastern-style flatbread).
Tonight: leftover stew based on a West African recipe but highly modified: turkey leg, canned tomatoes, zucchini and squash, carrots and celery and onions, with added paste made (by me) of ginger, garlic, and peanuts, and plantains. I'll probably add some greens of some sort, maybe kale since I had spinach earlier.
Since I will have leftover calories I will probably have some ice cream. I also might have a protein bar at some point.
I try to make lunch more often than not, but this is a pretty typical day for when I buy lunch.
Look...eat whatever you want to eat, I really don't care lol.
I'm not a strictly clean eater; everyone has their own idea of what clean eating is. I eat a good balance of healthy food and treat myself often. It's the reason I have been successful with losing weight because I don't deprive myself.
People get way too defensive over things that are personal choices.
It's not people being defensive, it's you speaking as if what say applies to everyone across the board. That's the issue there.
If it doesn't apply, LET.IT.FLY!
I'm always under the assumption that when I speak on anything I am speaking for MYSELF. I'll pay better attention to my pronouns from now on.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »People get way too defensive over things that are personal choices.
I just get tired of the strawmen, specifically that not eating clean=eating "only junk" or nothing but a pizza a day or results in you not eating a nutritious diet or having negative health outcomes.
It's especially puzzling when from someone like you who says that she doesn't eat "clean" herself, but what sounds like a typical "moderate" diet.
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Terpnista84 wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
Once again, I feel like we are on the same page, yet people just keep saying one little thing that I disagree with. I'm not sure where someone was advocating that you save all your calories and eat one meal just of pizza and nothing else? Can you point that out to me? I agree, that would not be teaching someone healthy habits. But if you eat in moderation, as you state, then wouldn't you agree that there is nothing wrong with eating a couple of slices of pizza (even a calorie dense, pepperoni and sausage pizza from Dominos is about 300 cals/slice) with a salad for dinner. I could do that once a week, or even daily, and it wouldn't blow my calorie budget. I make homemade pizza on the grill with chicken, artichokes, roasted red peppers, spinach, and pesto instead of tomato sauce and it is about 700 cals for half the pizza.
There is a lot of misinterpretation in this thread because people are getting defensive about their food choices. I love pizza. I also love alcohol and I love the cookies and cream ice-cream at Aldi's (matter of fact, I'm buying some today because I'm out lol)
If you are fitting it into your calorie goals, great! So am I. But I could never have long-term success eating only unhealthy food on a daily basis whether I stay in my calorie goal or not (I'm not saying you are or anyone else is). What I am saying is, I try to balance healthy eating with treats. And yes there are occasions where I do save my calories for happy hour or for pizza. But I'm not going to eat consistently bad throughout the day regardless of whether I have the calories from exercise because MY goal is not only weight loss but good nutrition. And I believe having good nutrition 80% of the time will give ME a better chance of sustaining the weight loss. If you want to eat whatever you please provided you stay under your goal- wonderful. But I don't want to eat these things all the time.
I must admit, like @lemurcat12 , I am perplexed why we are arguing. Sounds like you eat all foods in moderation. You enjoy the same things I do: alcohol, pizza, ice cream. Did I say that someone should eat nothing but those things as long as they stay under their goal? I said that I can fit those foods in on a regular basis. I don't have pizza or ice cream every day. I do probably have wine close to every day. I like wine.
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