The Clean Eating Myth
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Pretty sure spelling it toxinz is the tip off that it's not serious. (Also, I am familiar with the poster's prior work.)
Its so hard to tell on this site sometimes.
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When people say CICO and that it doesn't matter what your calories are its pretty easy to take it as "eat junk food, just less". And its been my experience that this doesn't work.
No, it's really not, especially given the perfectly clear hypothetical.
Why would you assume that not eating "clean" means we are eating "junk food."
For that matter, why would you assume that we were eating mostly "junk food" before losing weight?
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It's easier to eat 1500 clean than 1500 junk. They doc who ate 1500 in junk food has strong will power and a fixed period to focus on (he's a doctor!). You can eat 1500 calories of doritos and be REALLY hungry throughout the day -- who in the normal population can sustain that? No one. I'm eating less than 1500 calories per day, but my macros are like ~50g carb, 160 g protein, 60-80g fat and i feel fine. This is 'good' food like chicken, greek yogurt, cheese, avocados, some chocolate, vegetables, etc.
Please point to any post in this thread, or any other thread in the history of MFP, where someone suggested that someone should eat nothing but 1500 calories of doritos all day long.
I will never fail to be astounded that the argument from clean eaters is that they get to eat a variety of foods, while the alternative is one single food, all day, every day. Whether it be cake (brought up in this thread) or doritos (see quoted post above) or donuts (often referenced in other threads).
I am completely onboard with CICO.
But I am also trying to lose weight to feel better. And you feel better when you eat vitamin rich products than when you eat doritos/donuts/cake. And a 500 calorie salad with protein and fat is going to be more satiating than the aforementioned stuff. So, while on a weight basis alone there probably isn't a large chasm, there are still differences in how you feel when you eat more clean food vs more junk food.
We run around the same arguments all the time. The truth is many people can stick with clean diets longer because they don't get the same cravings, etc.
You are missing the point. Who said to eat doritos/donut/cake instead of vitamin rich products? What they said was if you eat the 500 calorie salad with protein and fat, eat other nutritionally dense foods throughout the day, and then choose to top your day off with 200 cals of gelato, or oreos, there is nothing wrong with that.
Here is my pre-logged day so far:
Breakfast: Greek Yogurt, Coffee with Coffeemate creamer
Lunch: leftover grilled tilapia with homemade mango avocado salsa and a package of frozen mixed vegetables
Snack: Luna Protein Bar
Dinner: chicken sausage saute with squash and zucchini and a wedge of laughing cow cheese, over either pasta or rice (need to see what's in the pantry).
That's about 1200 cals. I have close to 700 left. I will probably try to get some protein in, maybe some peanut butter or another greek yogurt, but I will still have calories left over. Wine and Gelato will likely be my go to's.
Is my day unhealthy because of the gelato? Because many of the foods were processed?
I'm not arguing your diet at all. Looks great to me. Merely the notion that it doesn't matter where your calories come from. Because if you aren't eating vitamin rich foods it IS going to be more difficult to stay within your calories, to stick to the diet long term, etc.
The only people who say it has to be one or the other are clean eaters. Most of the people advocating for Team Moderation are eating just as many, if not more, nutrient dense foods as the clean eaters. They just don't restrict certain foods because it doesn't meet an ever changing definition of what is clean or unclean. They finish their day off with whatever they have room for, that fits within their day.
I don't know why we are arguing. I agree with everything you are saying. When people say CICO and that it doesn't matter what your calories are its pretty easy to take it as "eat junk food, just less". And its been my experience that this doesn't work.
are you even reading what people are saying? Or are you just going to keep saying bla bla junk food...???
What are you defining as junk food? And why are you defining said food as junk?
What we are saying is eat nutrient dense foods so you hit micros and fill in with treats...0 -
Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
Nah0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
try eating 1500 calories of broccoli and kale in one sitting and tell me how you feel...0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »I can't believe you guys are still entertaining this crowd. I can't wait for the day when this whole crowd cruelly puts up progress pictures to show the application of all their awesome beliefs.
Stay tune for July when I have another physical with bod pod. I will gladly post my results. I want to see how much more I can naturally increase my testosterone.
I think for my next thread, I am going to post my lab results and watch all the clean eaters heads explode.0 -
Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
Honestly, that depends on your definition of clean. Eggs, cheese, avocado, olive oil, coconut oil, seeds, nuts. You could build a pretty effective 1500-calorie salad using calorie dense, but clean, ingredients.
However, we seem to be talking about the same thing, right? Moderation? I mean, even the OP stipulates that the non-clean example is hitting the same macro and micro nutrients. Why are we shifting back to nothing but pizza all the time?
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diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
try eating 1500 calories of broccoli and kale in one sitting and tell me how you feel...
You're falling into the same trap as the junk-food-all-the-time posters. Broccoli and kale are not the only clean foods. Are you really telling me you couldn't build a 1500-calorie clean meal?
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diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
Honestly, that depends on your definition of clean. Eggs, cheese, avocado, olive oil, coconut oil, seeds, nuts. You could build a pretty effective 1500-calorie salad using calorie dense, but clean, ingredients.
However, we seem to be talking about the same thing, right? Moderation? I mean, even the OP stipulates that the non-clean example is hitting the same macro and micro nutrients. Why are we shifting back to nothing but pizza all the time?
Because that's the only way their arguments work.
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Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
Yes, and again why does not eating "clean" mean you don't have a nutritious diet?
I'm on a logging break, but today:
2 egg omelet with spinach, broccoli, zucchini, and feta plus cottage cheese and some blueberries.
Lebanese chicken flatbread sandwich from Pret a Manger (in case you care: Chargrilled Chicken (antibiotic-free) mixed with our Lebanese dip, a delicious red sauce made with roasted red peppers, sunflower seeds, tamarind, and lemon juice. It's topped with fresh mint and cilantro and rolled in a Middle Eastern-style flatbread).
Tonight: leftover stew based on a West African recipe but highly modified: turkey leg, canned tomatoes, zucchini and squash, carrots and celery and onions, with added paste made (by me) of ginger, garlic, and peanuts, and plantains. I'll probably add some greens of some sort, maybe kale since I had spinach earlier.
Since I will have leftover calories I will probably have some ice cream. I also might have a protein bar at some point.
I try to make lunch more often than not, but this is a pretty typical day for when I buy lunch.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
try eating 1500 calories of broccoli and kale in one sitting and tell me how you feel...
You're falling into the same trap as the junk-food-all-the-time posters. Broccoli and kale are not the only clean foods. Are you really telling me you couldn't build a 1500-calorie clean meal?
I was being facetious....
I don't think I can build a 1500 clean meal because no one knows what that is.
Take the other thread going on right now where someone is making the idiotic claim that if you de skin and chop up tomatoes that they are no longer clean....0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
try eating 1500 calories of broccoli and kale in one sitting and tell me how you feel...
You're falling into the same trap as the junk-food-all-the-time posters. Broccoli and kale are not the only clean foods. Are you really telling me you couldn't build a 1500-calorie clean meal?
I was being facetious....
I don't think I can build a 1500 clean meal because no one knows what that is.
Take the other thread going on right now where someone is making the idiotic claim that if you de skin and chop up tomatoes that they are no longer clean....
Happy thoughts and well-wishes on a bed of organic kale.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
Nah
Based on the definitions of "clean" before, I have to agree with this.
Pretty sure I've done it on occasion.
My own versions of Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner tend to meet the guidelines for "clean" (at least if one leaves out dessert, since I think sugar may disqualify even homemade treats, but who knows).0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
try eating 1500 calories of broccoli and kale in one sitting and tell me how you feel...
You're falling into the same trap as the junk-food-all-the-time posters. Broccoli and kale are not the only clean foods. Are you really telling me you couldn't build a 1500-calorie clean meal?
I was being facetious....
I don't think I can build a 1500 clean meal because no one knows what that is.
Take the other thread going on right now where someone is making the idiotic claim that if you de skin and chop up tomatoes that they are no longer clean....
I'm in both threads. I'm the one posting that awesome list of clean definitions. I just don't understand why you're arguing with my point that meal timing =/= clean eating.
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Terpnista84 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
It would be extremely hard to eat 1,500 calories of food in a "clean" meal. And you definitely would feel bad afterwards because it would be a lot more food than an unhealthy meal.
I don't eat clean all the time, I eat in moderation. Trying to lose weight by saving all of your calories for pizza just seems like a potentially destructive path. It doesn't teach you how to adjust your eating habits for the long term to keep the weight off.
Eating within my calorie range seems to be working for me. But in order for me to feel full, energized, and healthy (and stay within my calorie goal) I have to incorporate a lot of healthy foods in my diet.
Once again, I feel like we are on the same page, yet people just keep saying one little thing that I disagree with. I'm not sure where someone was advocating that you save all your calories and eat one meal just of pizza and nothing else? Can you point that out to me? I agree, that would not be teaching someone healthy habits. But if you eat in moderation, as you state, then wouldn't you agree that there is nothing wrong with eating a couple of slices of pizza (even a calorie dense, pepperoni and sausage pizza from Dominos is about 300 cals/slice) with a salad for dinner. I could do that once a week, or even daily, and it wouldn't blow my calorie budget. I make homemade pizza on the grill with chicken, artichokes, roasted red peppers, spinach, and pesto instead of tomato sauce and it is about 700 cals for half the pizza.
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Oh, I could whip up a 1,500 calorie natural/paleo/vegan/non-GMO/gluten-free/whole food/clean snack in no time. It would be delicious and the person may feel a little full afterwards but not terrible. They would also gain weight on it.
http://talesofakitchen.com/desserts/chocolate-banana-cake-with-caramel-layer-and-cacao-nibs/0 -
Funny you mention pizza. Thursday nights are pizza night at Quizno's. Thin crust. I eat half. It fits in my calorie allowance for the day.0
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Funny you mention pizza. Thursday nights are pizza night at Quizno's. Thin crust. I eat half. It fits in my calorie allowance for the day.
I'm still of the belief that if we had to choose just one food to live on forever (as these threads always seem to go) pizza would be one of the healthier options. Balanced macros, lots of variety, plenty of protein and veg options, homemade or take-out choices. Way better than trying to live off of just chicken breast or doritos forever.
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diannethegeek wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Terpnista84 wrote: »curlygirlkrissie wrote: »I would tend to say that, generally speaking, 1500 calories is 1500 calories. (note "generally") The benefits of a clean diet far outweigh that of a diet consisting of processed foods and snacks. Creating a 3500 deficit will, in fact, result in a 1lb loss no matter how you arrive at the deficit.
Exactly. Eating clean foods is not about weight loss, it's about nutrition and health. I could eat one big meal of 1,500 calories but I would feel like crap. I'd rather spread out healthy meals and have a small indulgence.
Satiety also comes into play because you can eat the wrong foods that won't fill you up and you end up overeating.
For long term success it's best to have a nutritious diet that way you become accustomed to eating healthy.
But again, eating 1500 calories in one meal or over 3 meals doesn't really have anything to do with clean eating, right? I mean, I could eat 1500 calories of clean food in one meal, too, and still feel just as bad. The non-clean-eaters (team moderation) often space out their meals. And their meals can be just as healthy and include a small indulgence.
try eating 1500 calories of broccoli and kale in one sitting and tell me how you feel...
You're falling into the same trap as the junk-food-all-the-time posters. Broccoli and kale are not the only clean foods. Are you really telling me you couldn't build a 1500-calorie clean meal?
I was being facetious....
I don't think I can build a 1500 clean meal because no one knows what that is.
Take the other thread going on right now where someone is making the idiotic claim that if you de skin and chop up tomatoes that they are no longer clean....
I'm in both threads. I'm the one posting that awesome list of clean definitions. I just don't understand why you're arguing with my point that meal timing =/= clean eating.
I am not arguing with you ...
If anything, I am agreeing...
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Holy Exploding Thread, Batman!
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