What is Natural Food Anyway?
Replies
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Including Hemlock!Eat what you like, because it's natural.
I think this is dumb but if you believe everything in existence on this earth counts as natural fine, why are you even talking about this?No. Raw honey straight from the hive is a chemically processed product.
Functionally Natural does not equal Healthy.
Tell me how bees can make honey without .. processing nectar .. with chemicals ..0 -
Stop feeding the troll. There is just no point.
I dunno, I think we can solve some major problems here.
Obesity is unnatural. Nothing on earth is unnatural. Therefore obesity does not exist on earth. Huzzah!0 -
This goes back to "natural" .. I find humans just as natural as bees, and therefore their processes are just as natural as the bees. (tip: I dont believe a single thing on this planet is "unnatural")
I can say I don't believe a single thing on this planet is blue, but it won't make it true.
nat·u·ral/ Show Spelled [nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl]
adjective
1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge.
2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.
3. of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.
4. of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.
5. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.
na·ture/ Show Spelled [ney-cher]
noun
1. the material world, especially as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities.
2. the natural world as it exists without human beings or civilization.
3. the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, or rivers.
4. natural scenery.
5. the universe, with all its phenomena.0 -
Stop feeding the troll. There is just no point.
Answer the following, and I'll go away:
1. Tell me how nectar can get to Honey without chemical processing (addition of enzymes), and mechanical processing (evaporation).
2. Tell me why it's oh so very different when humans perform the same process.0 -
This goes back to "natural" .. I find humans just as natural as bees, and therefore their processes are just as natural as the bees. (tip: I dont believe a single thing on this planet is "unnatural")
I can say I don't believe a single thing on this planet is blue, but it won't make it true.
nat·u·ral/ Show Spelled [nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl]
adjective
1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge.
2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.
3. of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.
4. of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.
5. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.
na·ture/ Show Spelled [ney-cher]
noun
1. the material world, especially as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities.
2. the natural world as it exists without human beings or civilization.
3. the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, or rivers.
4. natural scenery.
5. the universe, with all its phenomena.
Which includes .. humans.
I don't define humans as "outside of nature"0 -
Stop feeding the troll. There is just no point.
I dunno, I think we can solve some major problems here.
Obesity is unnatural. Nothing on earth is unnatural. Therefore obesity does not exist on earth. Huzzah!
Or all obese are aliens?!0 -
Or all obese are aliens?!
Sorry, "natural" definition changed to everything in the universe. ALTHOUGH, there is a loophole for alternate dimensions, but that would be an exclusive definition of universe that we could change at any time depending on the whim of the definer.0 -
This goes back to "natural" .. I find humans just as natural as bees, and therefore their processes are just as natural as the bees. (tip: I dont believe a single thing on this planet is "unnatural")
I can say I don't believe a single thing on this planet is blue, but it won't make it true.
nat·u·ral/ Show Spelled [nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl]
adjective
1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge.
2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.
3. of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.
4. of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.
5. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.
na·ture/ Show Spelled [ney-cher]
noun
1. the material world, especially as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities.
2. the natural world as it exists without human beings or civilization.
3. the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, or rivers.
4. natural scenery.
5. the universe, with all its phenomena.
Which includes .. humans.
I don't define humans as "outside of nature"
Your definitions don't matter. Words already have definitions.0 -
Your definitions don't matter. Words already have definitions.
Damnit man! I just solved obesity! Next on the list for definitional extinction: ugly.0 -
Your definitions don't matter. Words already have definitions.
Damnit man! I just solved obesity! Next on the list for definitional extinction: ugly.
No you didn't. Obesity occurs, and is therefore natural.0 -
This goes back to "natural" .. I find humans just as natural as bees, and therefore their processes are just as natural as the bees. (tip: I dont believe a single thing on this planet is "unnatural")
I can say I don't believe a single thing on this planet is blue, but it won't make it true.
nat·u·ral/ Show Spelled [nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl]
adjective
1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge.
2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.
3. of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.
4. of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.
5. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.
na·ture/ Show Spelled [ney-cher]
noun
1. the material world, especially as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities.
2. the natural world as it exists without human beings or civilization.
3. the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, or rivers.
4. natural scenery.
5. the universe, with all its phenomena.
Which includes .. humans.
I don't define humans as "outside of nature"
Your definitions don't matter. Words already have definitions.
Contradictory definitions. So humans aren't one of "all the phenomena" in the universe?0 -
No you didn't. Obesity occurs, and is therefore natural.
Obesity is unnatural, therefore it can't occur. You are wrong.0 -
No you didn't. Obesity occurs, and is therefore natural.
Obesity is unnatural, therefore it can't occur. You are wrong.
You're not .. good .. at this, are you?0 -
I boil it down to, could this food have been made before the cotton gin. With that in mind, not all natural food is good for you.0
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This goes back to "natural" .. I find humans just as natural as bees, and therefore their processes are just as natural as the bees. (tip: I dont believe a single thing on this planet is "unnatural")
I can say I don't believe a single thing on this planet is blue, but it won't make it true.
nat·u·ral/ Show Spelled [nach-er-uhl, nach-ruhl]
adjective
1. existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial ): a natural bridge.
2. based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.
3. of or pertaining to nature or the universe: natural beauty.
4. of, pertaining to, or occupied with the study of natural science: conducting natural experiments.
5. in a state of nature; uncultivated, as land.
na·ture/ Show Spelled [ney-cher]
noun
1. the material world, especially as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities.
2. the natural world as it exists without human beings or civilization.
3. the elements of the natural world, as mountains, trees, animals, or rivers.
4. natural scenery.
5. the universe, with all its phenomena.
Which includes .. humans.
I don't define humans as "outside of nature"
Your definitions don't matter. Words already have definitions.
Contradictory definitions. So humans aren't one of "all the phenomena" in the universe?
Maybe one or two.
phe·nom·e·na/ Show Spelled [fi-nom-uh-nuh] Show IPA
noun
a plural of phenomenon.
phenomenon
noun, plural phe·nom·e·na/ Show Spelled [-nuh]
1. a fact, occurrence, or circumstance observed or observable: to study the phenomena of nature.
2. something that is impressive or extraordinary.
3. a remarkable or exceptional person; prodigy; wonder.
4. Philosophy .
a. an appearance or immediate object of awareness in experience.
b. Kantianism. a thing as it appears to and is constructed by the mind, as distinguished from a noumenon, or thing-in-itself.0 -
vomit = cottage cheese. That's not ridiculous at all. :huh:
Of course it isn't. Cottage cheese is cows' milk that has rennet, a substance obtained from calves' stomach juices, added. The addition of the acid/enzyme causes the fats to curdle and separate from the whey. It is exactly the same chemical process. If calves puked, they'd produce cottage cheese.
An alternative is to add something like lemon juice instead, which is how you get paneer, often know as Indian cheese.0 -
If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is there to hear it... did it make a sound?0
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You're not .. good .. at this, are you?
Your objective: make up definitions that invalidate meaningful discussion.
Just following your lead here. My made up definition trumps yours.0 -
If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is there to hear it... did it make a sound?
and if a man speaks where no woman can hear him, is he still wrong ?
(I have that t-shirt - from Minnesota)0 -
If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is there to hear it... did it make a sound?
and if a man speaks where no woman can hear him, is he still wrong ?
(I have that t-shirt - from Minnesota)
"If this band was in a forest, and a tree fell on them, would they still suck?" - Butthead0 -
Well that's kind of obvious.Nope. I believe my own bull****.
You are also arguing a different point than that of the OP which is that people's understanding of what it means to be "natural" doesn't seem to be based on anything logical. This is very clear when you look at the difference in the answers between whether or not adding salt to something is natural vs. adding Sodium Chloride when they are the exact same thing. And, in this case, they really are the exact. same. thing. (In your honey vs. HFCS, they AREN'T the exact same thing, just similar.)
Yes, they are less natural. Duh.Ok, so .. are hothouse tomatoes less natural than ones grown outdoors? They're in a human created "unnatural" environment being forced to unnaturally grow out of season. They don't get rained on, but humans must water them. and onward ...
What about hydroponic tomatoes? That gell looks cool, but it sure ain't "natural" ... Are these less natural than the ones in your garden?
Then you are using a special definition of natural that only you use since the official definition of natural PRECLUDES anything that is man-made. And using your own definitions for things instead of the commonly accepted definitions and then arguing for them makes you a troll. By definition.Which includes .. humans.
I don't define humans as "outside of nature"0 -
vomit = cottage cheese. That's not ridiculous at all. :huh:
Of course it isn't. Cottage cheese is cows' milk that has rennet, a substance obtained from calves' stomach juices, added. The addition of the acid/enzyme causes the fats to curdle and separate from the whey. It is exactly the same chemical process. If calves puked, they'd produce cottage cheese.
An alternative is to add something like lemon juice instead, which is how you get paneer, often know as Indian cheese.
rennet is not always used in the making of cheese, and does not always come from a calf's stomach. But that aside, if you want to eat vomit go ahead. Let me know how that works out for you.0 -
Well that's kind of obvious.Nope. I believe my own bull****.
You are also arguing a different point than that of the OP which is that people's understanding of what it means to be "natural" doesn't seem to be based on anything logical. This is very clear when you look at the difference in the answers between whether or not adding salt to something is natural vs. adding Sodium Chloride when they are the exact same thing. And, in this case, they really are the exact. same. thing. (In your honey vs. HFCS, they AREN'T the exact same thing, just similar.)
Yes, they are less natural. Duh.Ok, so .. are hothouse tomatoes less natural than ones grown outdoors? They're in a human created "unnatural" environment being forced to unnaturally grow out of season. They don't get rained on, but humans must water them. and onward ...
What about hydroponic tomatoes? That gell looks cool, but it sure ain't "natural" ... Are these less natural than the ones in your garden?
Then you are using a special definition of natural that only you use since the official definition of natural PRECLUDES anything that is man-made. And using your own definitions for things instead of the commonly accepted definitions and then arguing for them makes you a troll. By definition.Which includes .. humans.
I don't define humans as "outside of nature"
You don't understand my argument so you want to call me a troll. That's fine.
Nobody's told me yet how bees can transform nectar to honey without chemical processing, or why it's somehow "different" when humans do the same thing.0 -
You're not .. good .. at this, are you?
Your objective: make up definitions that invalidate meaningful discussion.
Just following your lead here. My made up definition trumps yours.
I'm the only one addressing this from the OP:
" One of the big challenges is that the word "natural" is nebulous and is vaguely defined by regulators. "
You all seem to disagree with that.0 -
I always like Honey v HFCS in the "natural" debate. I consider Honey to be a highly processed (with chemicals, no less!!) food. They're basically the same thing - sugar water processed with enzymes, then evaporated to a sugary syrup that contains about 55% fructose.
Yet one's an all-natural wondersweetener, and the other is the most evil, guaranteed to give you the diabetus, sweetener that ever existed.
HFCS is no less "natural" than Honey. Why does it matter if a human or bee adds the enzymes?
Pasteurized honey is processed. Raw honey is not. Buy raw honey.
^^^This! Natural=not made in a lab, found in nature. I have never seen a HFCS hive!0 -
To get back to the original post... I am not remotely surprised by these findings. I frequently find myself having conversations with people that go something like this:
Them: I'm going to try to eat healthier. I'm not going to put any chemicals in my body!
Me: Then I guess you aren't going to drink or eat anything.
Them: What do you mean?
Me: Everything is a chemical. You can't not eat chemicals.
Them: You know what I mean.
Me: No I don't.
Them: I mean I'm not going to eat anything I can't pronounce!
Me: So you aren't going to drink dihydrogen monoxide.
Them: Exactly!
Me: So you aren't going to drink water.
Them: You're just being difficult!
But I'm not. I'm trying to show them that just because something sounds "chemically" it doesn't mean it's bad for them and that just because it's "natural" that doesn't mean it's automatically good for them and that, if they keep their understanding of food and nutrition at the level of a 2nd grader, they are at the mercy of the food industry.
As an example, there were these series of ads on tv a while back by the dairy industry trying to demonize Soy and Almond milk. Except they called them "Artificial Milk" and they called Cow's Milk "real" milk. Now there is nothing particularly artificial about almond or soy milk compared to the cow's milk that we buy in the store -- they all have some level of processing -- and there is nothing "realer" about cow's milk compared to any other kind of milk. Goat's milk or any other mammal's milk is just as real as cow's milk.
In the commercials, they said things like "real milk doesn't separate!" Except REAL milk -- unprocessed milk - absolutely DOES separate. The only reason the milk we buy at the store doesn't separate is that it's been homogenized. I.E., it's been PROCESSED.
Then they talked about the ingredients in "artificial" milk and tried to make it seem like it was full of "chemicals". Except most of what they were saying was in soy and almond milk didn't have to be in there. The soy milk I buy lists 2 ingredients - FILTERED WATER, WHOLE ORGANIC SOYBEANS.
But most of what they were saying were in there were just added vitamins and minerals. The sort of things people pay money to take as supplements.
Only instead of saying "calcium" and "vitamin A" they were saying "calcium carbonate" and "Retinyl palmitate". And the people who think salt is natural but Sodium chloride is not (even though they are the exact same thing), were probably thinking: Oh my god! I had no idea my soy milk had all those "chemicals" in it!
Not to mention that many dairy farms add these things to milk too. In fact, all milk has to have vitamin D added to it by law. And lots of dairy products have carrageenan in them. It's a thickener made from seaweed that you find in cottage cheese, chocolate milk, soy milk, ice creams and also personal care products.
Which leads people to say: I'm not eating something that's in my shampoo! But water is in your shampoo. So just because a chemical is used in a non-food product, doesn't mean it automatically isn't fit for human consumption either. It just depends on what that ingredient is.
We need to educate ourselves about these things so we can make informed choices.0 -
I'm the only one addressing this from the OP:
" One of the big challenges is that the word "natural" is nebulous and is vaguely defined by regulators. "
You all seem to disagree with that.
It is nebulous and vaguely defined by regulators. Much of the products labeled "natural" are not consistent with consumer definitions of "natural". The OP explains that well, and that people have a wide range of definitions for "natural". Are people disagreeing with those conclusions?
Arguing that everything in the universe is "natural" is completely specious and irrelevant to the OP. At best you represent the lunatic fringe of people defining the word.0 -
Yes we have. We've told you that natural means found in nature. Factories are not found in nature. HFCS is made in a factory. HFCS is man-made. Man-made is not nature-made.
Nobody's told me yet how bees can transform nectar to honey without chemical processing, or why it's somehow "different" when humans do the same thing.0 -
I always like Honey v HFCS in the "natural" debate. I consider Honey to be a highly processed (with chemicals, no less!!) food. They're basically the same thing - sugar water processed with enzymes, then evaporated to a sugary syrup that contains about 55% fructose.
Yet one's an all-natural wondersweetener, and the other is the most evil, guaranteed to give you the diabetus, sweetener that ever existed.
HFCS is no less "natural" than Honey. Why does it matter if a human or bee adds the enzymes?
Pasteurized honey is processed. Raw honey is not. Buy raw honey.
^^^This! Natural=not made in a lab, found in nature. I have never seen a HFCS hive!
Is butter natural? Not found in nature0 -
Yes we have. We've told you that natural means found in nature. Factories are not found in nature. HFCS is made in a factory. HFCS is man-made. Man-made is not nature-made.
Nobody's told me yet how bees can transform nectar to honey without chemical processing, or why it's somehow "different" when humans do the same thing.
Would you say there's no such thing as all-natural guacamole, then?0
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