The Skinny on Obesity

Crisseyda

Check out this awesome video series from the University of California TV and Dr. Robert Lustig on the Obesity Epidemic!

https://youtu.be/a8lu6k2bHJc

It gets especially good in episode 2, IMO.

Hornsby

Just remember, Lustig has been debunked by the science community and is a known quack in the fitness and diet industry. Having his name attached to anything basically renders it meaningless.

Crisseyda

Hornsby wrote: »

Just remember, Lustig has been debunked by the science community and is a known quack in the fitness and diet industry. Having his name attached to anything basically renders it meaningless.

hmmmm, interesting. I'd like to see some sources on that... and not the "30 bananas per day" blog! I can't seem to find much of anything except for marginal blogs like hers.

I'm also curious about what specifically in his research has been "debunked." As far as I know, he's a clinically practicing pediatric endocrinologist and professor at UC whose published several successful books and headed multiple funded research projects. I follow him regularly, and I find him to be balanced, evidence-based, well-researched, and in line with most the most recent data.

jgnatca

To get the skinny on Lustig, I went to Wikipedia first, as such a controversial figure would bring out proponents on both sides. The article does not disappoint. The Wikipedia editors are asking an expert to weigh in on the article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig

ninerbuff

Sugar consumption is the main focus from Lustig and his view of why obesity exists. Thing is that the US isn't even in the top 10 countries that consume the most sugar per capita. Brazil consumes more sugar per capita, yet doesn't have the the obesity percentage that the US has.
While I don't discount that over consumption of sugar may be a contributor, obesity comes down to one main thing even with people who have health issues and that's overly exceeding the amount of calories consumed versus what one burns.
Do I believe that sugar should be reduced in many peoples diets based on reported consumption? I do. But I don't believe that it's the actual cause of someone being very overweight or obese.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

jgnatca

My old family doctor was convinced my overweight was caused by consuming too much fruit juice. At the time I drank a 1/2 cup of orange juice with breakfast. That's it. Life isn't that simple.

Crisseyda

jgnatca wrote: »

To get the skinny on Lustig, I went to Wikipedia first, as such a controversial figure would bring out proponents on both sides. The article does not disappoint. The Wikipedia editors are asking an expert to weigh in on the article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig

yup, I read the article. Nothing in there I hadn't heard. It seems the controversy surrounds the idea of excess fructose as a toxin, and HFCS vs sugar. I agree that both are fairly equally deleterious.

This is actually just a small piece of his research, and not addressed in this video series. Check it out for yourself!

Crisseyda

ninerbuff wrote: »

Sugar consumption is the main focus from Lustig and his view of why obesity exists. Thing is that the US isn't even in the top 10 countries that consume the most sugar per capita. Brazil consumes more sugar per capita, yet doesn't have the the obesity percentage that the US has.
While I don't discount that over consumption of sugar may be a contributor, obesity comes down to one main thing even with people who have health issues and that's overly exceeding the amount of calories consumed versus what one burns.
Do I believe that sugar should be reduced in many peoples diets based on reported consumption? I do. But I don't believe that it's the actual cause of someone being very overweight or obese.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You should check out the second episode. He says the same thing that you did concerning obesity and excess calories... but he explains how and why this over-consumption occurs. One possible cause being excess insulin, which blocks the necessary effects of leptin, causing leptin resistance... the reason why an obese person, who has tons of leptin, is still hungry.

Need2Exerc1se

aqsylvester wrote: »

Hornsby wrote: »

Just remember, Lustig has been debunked by the science community and is a known quack in the fitness and diet industry. Having his name attached to anything basically renders it meaningless.

hmmmm, interesting. I'd like to see some sources on that... and not the "30 bananas per day" blog! I can't seem to find much of anything except for marginal blogs like hers.

I'm also curious about what specifically in his research has been "debunked." As far as I know, he's a clinically practicing pediatric endocrinologist and professor at UC whose published several successful books and headed multiple funded research projects. I follow him regularly, and I find him to be balanced, evidence-based, well-researched, and in line with most the most recent data.

I would also like to see the source of the debunking or what peers consider him a quack. He is regularly bashed on MFP, but that's not even close to the same as being bashed/debunked by peers or science.

3bambi3

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

aqsylvester wrote: »

Hornsby wrote: »

Just remember, Lustig has been debunked by the science community and is a known quack in the fitness and diet industry. Having his name attached to anything basically renders it meaningless.

hmmmm, interesting. I'd like to see some sources on that... and not the "30 bananas per day" blog! I can't seem to find much of anything except for marginal blogs like hers.

I'm also curious about what specifically in his research has been "debunked." As far as I know, he's a clinically practicing pediatric endocrinologist and professor at UC whose published several successful books and headed multiple funded research projects. I follow him regularly, and I find him to be balanced, evidence-based, well-researched, and in line with most the most recent data.

I would also like to see the source of the debunking or what peers consider him a quack. He is regularly bashed on MFP, but that's not even close to the same as being bashed/debunked by peers or science.

Here's one:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

3bambi3

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

PeachyCarol

This won't end well.

I don't have the time or inclination to watch. I agree with Niner that over-consumption of anything, including sugar is not good for anyone.

Lustig's single-minded focus on fructose misses the point that obesity has many possible factors and is extremely complicated. I personally put on 30 pounds not eating sugar or starchy carbs because my problem was NOT with sugar, it was with food in general. I seriously doubt that I am alone in this.

The other problem is that for all the possible different factors involved, not all of them necessarily apply to everyone who is obese. For example, living in an urban desert and the unavailability of healthy food at an affordable price is known to be a factor for some, but that doesn't apply to me.

The last problem is that Lustig's work is easily rebutted with other findings. Alan Aragon nicely pulled together a rebuttal full of citations to The Bitter Truth, if you'd like a link.

Edit: Ah, Bambi beat me to it.

Hornsby

Fat Chance rebuttal.

http://sweetenerstudies.com/sites/default/files/resources/files/Scientific-Review-of-Lustigs-Fat-Chance.pdf

jgnatca

You couldn't pay me enough to watch Lustig's videos. First of all, videos hold me captive. I much prefer to read where I can skim, pause, skip, and come back later as I please. Without even watching it I know it will gloss over facts. That sort of presentation drives me bonkers.

I also won't watch "Super Size Me" for the same reasons. Too glib for a complex issue.

eric_sg61

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

Just as a sidenote Alan just debated Gary Taubes last weekend and thoroughly destroyed Gary it was epic

jgnatca

Yeah, can't blame fructose in my case either. I've eaten like a diabetic tracking my sugars and carbs for twenty years. Still gained weight.

Hornsby

eric_sg61 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

Just as a sidenote Alan just debated Gary Taubes last weekend and thoroughly destroyed Gary it was epic

Please tell me there is a video somewhere?

Crisseyda

mamapeach910 wrote: »

This won't end well.

I don't have the time or inclination to watch. I agree with Niner that over-consumption of anything, including sugar is not good for anyone.

Lustig's single-minded focus on fructose misses the point that obesity has many possible factors and is extremely complicated. I personally put on 30 pounds not eating sugar or starchy carbs because my problem was NOT with sugar, it was with food in general. I seriously doubt that I am alone in this.

The other problem is that for all the possible different factors involved, not all of them necessarily apply to everyone who is obese. For example, living in an urban desert and the unavailability of healthy food at an affordable price is known to be a factor for some, but that doesn't apply to me.

The last problem is that Lustig's work is easily rebutted with other findings. Alan Aragon nicely pulled together a rebuttal full of citations to The Bitter Truth, if you'd like a link.

Edit: Ah, Bambi beat me to it.

Yup, he mentions all those factors you did. He definitely defines it as a multi-factorial problem. You're just setting up a straw man.

PeachyCarol

eric_sg61 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

Just as a sidenote Alan just debated Gary Taubes last weekend and thoroughly destroyed Gary it was epic

I'm with jgnatca in that I won't normally watch videos. But Aragon vs. Taubes? That, I'd watch.

jgnatca

By the way, I irritated my daughter by suggesting she watch a TED video,
http://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_ronald_the_case_for_engineering_our_food
She said she would watch mine if I watched hers, "Seeds of Death". I offered, sure, as long as I only had to watch seventeen minutes of hers. She rolled her eyes at me.

Need2Exerc1se

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out when I have more time (at work now). I guess I'll need to watch the Lustig videos too.

I did read about a recent clinical study that showed foods sweetened with fructose triggered less satiety and more hunger than foods sweetened with glucose. I think I'm glad I don't have much of a sweet tooth.

Crisseyda

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

I don't know Alan Arangon... I see he's a body builder with an M.S. in Nutrition. I'll check him out, but so far this article comes off as fairly unprofessional--basically him just throwing shade at Lustig without adding anything meaningful or any other theories.

3bambi3

aqsylvester wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

I don't know Alan Arangon... I see he's a body builder with an M.S. in Nutrition. I'll check him out, but so far this article comes off as fairly unprofessional--basically him just throwing shade at Lustig without adding anything meaningful or any other theories.

Disagreeing and providing science-based rebuttals to arguments is not "throwing shade"

Crisseyda

3bambi3 wrote: »

aqsylvester wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

I don't know Alan Arangon... I see he's a body builder with an M.S. in Nutrition. I'll check him out, but so far this article comes off as fairly unprofessional--basically him just throwing shade at Lustig without adding anything meaningful or any other theories.

Disagreeing and providing science-based rebuttals to arguments is not "throwing shade"

yay, win for science!

Hornsby

aqsylvester wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

I don't know Alan Arangon... I see he's a body builder with an M.S. in Nutrition. I'll check him out, but so far this article comes off as fairly unprofessional--basically him just throwing shade at Lustig without adding anything meaningful or any other theories.

He debunked him with science. Links are at the bottom of the page...

jgnatca

Heres' an article I trust:
http://www.drsharma.ca/why-banning-sugar-will-not-solve-obesity

Browse, skip, skim at leisure.

PeachyCarol

aqsylvester wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

This won't end well.

I don't have the time or inclination to watch. I agree with Niner that over-consumption of anything, including sugar is not good for anyone.

Lustig's single-minded focus on fructose misses the point that obesity has many possible factors and is extremely complicated. I personally put on 30 pounds not eating sugar or starchy carbs because my problem was NOT with sugar, it was with food in general. I seriously doubt that I am alone in this.

The other problem is that for all the possible different factors involved, not all of them necessarily apply to everyone who is obese. For example, living in an urban desert and the unavailability of healthy food at an affordable price is known to be a factor for some, but that doesn't apply to me.

The last problem is that Lustig's work is easily rebutted with other findings. Alan Aragon nicely pulled together a rebuttal full of citations to The Bitter Truth, if you'd like a link.

Edit: Ah, Bambi beat me to it.

Yup, he mentions all those factors you did. He definitely defines it as a multi-factorial problem. You're just setting up a straw man.

Wasn't my intent.

lemurcat12

David Katz on fructose and Lustig:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/fructose-fruit_b_3694684.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/sugar-health-evil-toxic_b_850032.html

The distortion of the message about fructose into people thinking they should avoid fruit is seen constantly on MFP.

senecarr

3bambi3 wrote: »

Here's another where the two had a dialogue:
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/02/19/a-retrospective-of-the-fructose-alarmism-debate/

Beat me to it.

PeachyCarol

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out when I have more time (at work now). I guess I'll need to watch the Lustig videos too.

I did read about a recent clinical study that showed foods sweetened with fructose triggered less satiety and more hunger than foods sweetened with glucose. I think I'm glad I don't have much of a sweet tooth.

There are studies on the Aragon link regarding satiety which have different findings.

Hornsby

Listening to Lustig and taking what he says as truth is a lot like listening to Rush Limbaugh or Bill Maher and taking what they say as truth. It's propaganda with a sprinkle of truth, and a lot of scaremongering to freak out the gullible people who believe things without ever doing their own research.