Help - partial rebound, blood sugar up, can't get diet under control

douglerner

Day 1098 here.

My blood sugar is way up again as I've regained weight. Three months ago I said I wanted a chance to bring it down myself with diet and no more meds. But I've failed miserably, even with my local doctor giving me a little something extra to control blood sugar in the mornings and evenings. My HbA1c actually went slightly up over the last 3 months.

I'm scheduled to have another blood test on Monday when I go back to my main hospital (heart doctor) for my regular 3 month appointment.

The doctor will probably suggest insulin. I definitely don't want to go that way. And my neighborhood doctor thinks it's reasonable for me to reject insulin and keep trying diet and just ask for stronger blood sugar meds from the hospital. Which I will do.

But I've got to get my diet under control again. I just can't seem to be able to. I weigh 9 kg more than I did in St. Louis last summer, and 17 kg more than my low since 2012. But I'm still 22 kg lower than I was when I got out of the hospital in 2012, so I've managed to avoid a total rebound so far.

I'm going shopping now. I know I have to somehow completely cut out added sugars. At least stuff where the top few ingredients are sugar. I've become addicted to frozen popsicles lately. They are so refreshing. But they've got to go.

I might have to drink Coca Cola Zero (no sugar) for a sweet taste - and the caffeine. I'm really tired lately. I suspect it is a combo of my diet and lack of sleep with some family stuff going on.

To me I have two choices for diet (exercise I will continue to try, but that is NOT what I'm talking about here):

1. Go back on the Ornish heart-disease reversal program: vegan, no oil, no nuts. That's what I was on for 700 days when I lost most of my weight. But I fell off the wagon.

2. Try to stick to just low calorie. More variety, but I keep on going on it and then falling off it again.

My will power is shot.

I'm going over to the supermarket now and even at this moment I'm not sure what I'm going to buy.

But I feel myself getting sicker and sicker and have got to do something. I have to go cold turkey on really sugary things at least. I just have to.

doug

JillianRN527

Low carb will be your friend. Just remember calories in = calories out.

Have you tried a dietician to help with your diabetes? They can teach you to carb count! Check everything for sugar especially salad dressings.

If I get tired of water I drink club soda with lime. It's quite refreshing.

Best of luck!

wabmester

You don't need Coke Zero. You need to crush your sugar cravings. Either research low carb diets on your own, or find a doc who understands them.

Dr Jason Fung would be a good start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a2Fsfa8e4I

douglerner

Thanks for your replies so far.

Jillian, yes I do have a dietician I talk to regularly at the hospital I go to. Doesn't help. She doesn't know anything I don't already know.

I don't really get tired of water. But I've been very tired in the afternoons lately and I notice some Diet Coke helps get me awake again because of the caffeine. I've only been doing that for a week now. Before that it was all water. I actually like water. Even now I drink 99% water I think.

Webmester, I've tried low carb diets any number of times. Lots of times. They don't work - at least for me. They do help control appetite somewhat I admit. But in my case not enough to reduce calories enough to lose weight.

Also, I've had this happen before multiple times. It's NOT the carbs that give me high blood sugar. It's the overweight. When I lose weight my blood sugar always drops to normal, even without meds. And it doesn't matter what I eat, so long as I lose weight. That's the important thing.

I'm trying basically low calorie again, so as to be able to eat anywhere without being fanatic about the ingredients.

That said, I'm eating mostly vegetarian (much like I did on Ornish). But again, not fanatic about it. For example, I have some frozen fish combo in the freezer. I'll eat that. And I will eat some boiled eggs because they are low calorie, low carb, high protein and satisfying.

I'm going to avoid a lot of rice, particularly white rice, because they are wasted calories and can trigger hunger urges because they are high glycemic. But I have some microwave packs of brown rice - 228 calories per 160 gram pack - I might have. They are more filling somehow.

And I stocked up on lots of vegetables.

I think I'll avoid fruits for now because they are high glycemic and trigger hunger urges, plus I am never really confident about the calories.

That's about all I can do for now I think.

Thanks all,

doug

Hearts_2015

One thing to keep in mind as a diabetic is artificial sweeters can wreak havoc on you numbers. Sugar Alcohols supposedly don't but for others they raise it quite high. That's the tough part of being a diabetic each of us reacts to foods/chemicals in the food very differently.

Exercise is what lowered all my numbers and I was able to go off all my meds. Eating healthy is important and of course does make a difference but for some adding extra walks or workouts of any sort can really get your numbers back under control as one is getting their foods in order.

I hear you when you shared about Dieticians, particularly ADA ones, we tend to know far more than they do about our own bodies and why they react the way they do. They teach meal plans and pass out hand outs but being diabetic we know our bodies pretty well (learning more all the time of course) on what works and doesn't.

Sometimes foods on the meal plans they offer spike my sugars as I'm sure you've found out yourself. Plus the ADA as well as many other organizations take money from sources that aren't always in our best interest. Like when I took a class and they handed out 'special' cookies, diet pop and sugared oatmeal packets etc. Foods they received from companies to hand out so we would go and buy them on our own later.

Take it one day at a time (or one meal at a time) and do your best to make food choices that don't spike your numbers. If you have enough strips I'd test more frequently when you add in new foods so you can identify what exactly is raising it for you.

Stress and lack of sleep is HUGE in how our numbers and weight are effected. Perhaps Yoga or meditation might help in lowering stress. Getting in enough REM sleep is so important for all of us but particularly ppl that suffer from illnesses and chronic conditions.

Even talking to a counselor to find ways to let the stress roll off your back might really benefit you at this point. Journaling is another way of getting the feelings out ..

Take care and here's a great group on T2 diabetics in the groups area. Contact me if you're unable to find it and I'll send you the link.

douglerner

Hi Hearts,

Thanks for your note. I don't have any testing strips or a testing device. My doctors here all say the only thing that really matters is the HbA1c anyway. The actual glucose level goes up and goes down. But the HbA1c measures long term trends. And it is the final arbiter of whether you are diabetic or not.

I had it down to 4.5 too! Without medication! Sigh.

It's not a particular food causing this. It's the overweight. When I lost weight I could have 5 bananas a day and my blood sugar was fine. I'm sure this is entirely due to the regain. This has happened to me multiple times in the past. Then I some lose weight again and my blood sugar drops to normal. Then I start regaining and it goes up. I can't seem to permanently keep my weight off.

Interesting you mention yoga though. I was thinking of checking that out.

Thanks,

doug

douglerner

Webmester, I watched the video. There are some things I agree with, and with which my doctors also agree. Mainly that type 2 diabetics is reversible. When my HbA1c is normal, my doctors do tell me I do not have diabetes.

The video was extremely repetitive though. He kept on saying the same thing over for the first 8 minutes. That's one reason I hate videos like this. You can't skim over the repeated materials.

The rest of the video I'm not so sure about. As I mentioned, in my experience it's not so much what you eat as it is losing weight. Losing weight - be it low carb, or something like the Ornish program - seems to be the key for me. To everything. Also, fasting is not a long-term sustainable solution for me.

wabmester

I picked that one because it was short. He has a whole series on youtube if you're interested in depth.

Ornish is fine, but it appears to be hard for just about anybody to stay compliant. Low carb is easier for most people, and it directly addresses the blood sugar and insulin problems. Reduced weight will improve your insulin sensitivity, but for most people, low carb works well for both weight loss and blood sugar control.

I'm not diabetic, but my FBS was increasing over the years. It reached 111 last year, and dropped down to 83 after a few months of low carb.

If you've tried it and it didn't work, then stick with what works for you. But if you want support, there are lots of people in your situation here:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

kissesdahling

Doug,

Diabetes itself will make you very tired. I have a young female relative--only 25 and only 10lbs overweight--who has full-blown type 2 diabetes. I'm trying to convince her to track on MFP, but she hasn't yet and one can see her just nod off all the time due to her uncontrolled diabetes. You may find that after your numbers stabilize at the proper level, you aren't overtired anymore and therefore won't crave caffeine to push you through the day. I myself used to have high blood sugar when I took prednisone for lupus; I have a lot more energy now the numbers are back to normal.

With my own experience of high blood sugar, I had heard from my grandmother's friend that her doctor told her to limit carb count per meal to only 40 grams. Now, I'm not telling YOU to do that, as I am not a doctor, but that's what I did; by doing so, I *effortlessly* cut a couple of hundred calories out of each meal (and therefore *effortlessly* stay below my calorie limit every day). Remember: Brown rise will raise your blood sugar, too, and it is also high in calories. The nutrition facts on my brand says one cup is a serving and that is 200 calories and 40 grams of carbs. My advice is that if you eat a full serving of the brown rice, limit other starches in your meals. (For instance, maybe skip a dinner roll if you eat them, as they are mostly the real empty calories of a meal anyway.)

The typical supper that I ate during the time I was trying to lower my A1C would be 3 oz of lean (or relatively lean) meat, a cup of rice (sometimes 3/4 a cup), and a non-starchy vegetable such as spinach. Generally, that meal is roughly 400-ish calories (depending on what specifically it was comprised of) and just over 40 grams of carbs. Dietary needs may be different for men, so I would suggest finding a dietitian who knows more. Not all dietitians are created equal. I had one who simply put me on a diet pill that made me sick; I never really overate to the extent she thought I did; my problem was doing small wrong things each day that added up over time. Some dietitians aren't equipped to handle more subtle problems. But a dietitian who is worth their salt should be able to tell you EXACTLY what you should be eating for each meal and snacks.

Once I cut out sugar and cut way back on carbs, I craved sugar for about 2 weeks and then I just stopped craving it. Incidentally, this was the same amount of time I craved cigarettes after quitting THOSE cold turkey. It really is down to willpower but I think *knowing* that when you do the prescribed things correctly that you will see an improvement in your life is really what can push you to get there. It did me. I used to drink only soda every day for 20 years (most of my life)...now I never do. I never could've imagined life without it before. Now, I think it's grossly sweet. It may take longer than 2 weeks for you, but my point is, if you stick with it, good things will come out of it. Keeping that in mind is what keeps me on the wagon. I know people say "Fake it til you make it". But since craving sugar excessively is a sign of high blood sugar, forcing yourself to not eat it long enough will cure you from wanting it so badly.

I have read that your weight is what is causing your blood sugar to be high--that's what caused mine to be high. Even though I didn't eat as many carbs as most Americans, it was still too many carbs for me in my condition, however. Now that I've lost 80lbs, I'm able to incorporate a more typical amount of carbs. (Still not really into anything sweeter than dark chocolate, though.) The thing about type 2 diabetes is it means that your pancreas isn't able to make enough insulin for the current size of your body. You need insulin to handle carbs. Your body already doesn't have enough insulin to go around at this point, which is why cutting down on sweets and carbs helps people with type 2 diabetes. Ideally, your doctor should be able to tell you how many grams of carbs (and sugar) to eat per meal, which you can track with MFP, and that small change alone might be enough to help you lose weight. Each gram of carbohydrate you eat equals 4 calories, from what I've read elsewhere on MFP. THAT is why cutting carbs can be a really easy way to cut calories; and as we know at MFP, keeping track of calories and keeping said calories in their limits is the only way to lose weight.

I know this is a long post; pretty much everyone in my family has suffered from high blood sugar at some point. I've learned a lot (sometimes the hard way) through my trials and theirs; I don't wish to preach, but I do feel compelled to share what I know when I think it could help someone. Good luck with your blood sugar!

MKWThin

Hi Doug,

Consider trying Berberine to help get your blood sugar under control. It looks very promising: http://www.bioclinicnaturals.com/ca/en/products/Detail/7449/berberine-hcl.

I have some blood sugar issues and found that eating a diet consisting of largely (but not exclusively) high protein, high fat meals 3x per day (no snacks) has been most satisfying and successful for me to help level out my blood sugar in the short term and manage cravings. Plus, after eating this way for a while, a bit of extra carbs seem like an indulgence and little treats (such as a bit of dark chocolate) taste sweet and satisfying. Regardless of the type of diet you choose to get your weight back down, I would also suggest adding a lot of soluble fiber to your diet (chia seeds, veggies, beans, PGX supplement) to assist in reversing the insulin resistance and help you feel satiated, and in turn, curb the cravings and appetite (this is why the brown rice keeps your more satiated than the white).

Remember that: "Research suggests that fat cells — particularly abdominal fat cells — are biologically active. It’s appropriate to think of fat as an endocrine organ or gland, producing hormones and other substances that can profoundly affect our health. Although scientists are still deciphering the roles of individual hormones, it’s becoming clear that excess body fat, especially abdominal fat, disrupts the normal balance and functioning of these hormones." So, the heavier you get, the harder it is to lose weight, control your cravings, and get your blood sugar under control, as the abdominal fat cells are playing along in wreaking havoc on your blood sugar because they end up adding to your total insulin production. (From the article found at: http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/abdominal-fat-and-what-to-do-about-it.) That's why you could eat 5 bananas when you were slimmer and it would affect your blood sugar less than it does now. It's a catch-22. The heavier you are, the harder it is to lose weight and control your appetite/cravings.

I've yo-yo dieted for years and do feel for you. Don't give up, though! You know what you have to do to get your health under control, and I'm sure you can get there again. I turned 40 this year, and decided that this is the last time (since this January) that I lose and regain weight, even if I lose at a snail's pace or stay at a standstill.

Good luck to you!

douglerner

Thanks for the extra notes, people!

As far as low-carbing goes, I have given it serious tries. It is just impossible for me to stay within a reasonable calorie limit when doing that though. I admit low-carb, higher protein foods are more filling. So I'm not saying carbs should be ignored. I recognize that some high glycemic carbs (white rice for example) cause insulin spikes and further hunger cravings. And that white rice has loads of calories. So I'm not ignoring that part.

On the other hand, where carbs have 4 calories per gram, fat has 9 calories per gram. It's just way to easy for me to eat excessive calories on a low-carb diet. I've tried it too many times, so I know what happens.

So for now I think I'll concentrate on logging calories. And I'll try to eat foods which I think satisfy, yet are still low calorie. These might include a couple of hard-boiled eggs, might include some fish, could even include a sweet potato, some corn-on-the-cob, most green vegetables, maybe edamae, some salads with garbanzo beans.

I'm going to limit my rice, and try to have brown rice when I do eat it.

I'm going to avoid nuts, fatty meats and things like that which are *crazy* high in calories.

And I'm going to go cold turkey on "sugary things" (i.e. things where one of the top ingredients is sugar). I do realize that sugar is horrible. But if I see a non-oil salad dressing which is 4 calories/tablespoon and the 7th ingredient is sugar I'm not going to be fanatical about it and avoid it when it could help my diet.

I guess just common sense.

And I'll see how it goes.

Thanks!

douglerner

Oh - good news about the caffeine I'm needing the past week or two. I called both Coca Cola and Kirin (the makers of my favorite green tea, Namacha) and it turns out Namacha actually has more caffeine than Coca Cola Zero!

In one 500 ml PET bottle, Coca Cola Zero has 50 mg of caffeine while Namacha has 65!

Plus Namacha has no sweeteners at all. So I can avoid the artificial sweeteners altogether and presumably still get the same afternoon caffeine boost.

Hearts_2015

@douglerner There's a Diabetes Support Group that has some wonderful supportive members... the link below can take you to the group to join up with them if you'd like.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1772-type-2-diabetes-support-group

douglerner

My HbA1c is back to normal now. I think it was a combination of a new blood sugar med I take every morning plus trying really hard to avoid eating excess sugar.