Thoughts on IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros)
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Back on micro tracking, FWIW I track on nutritiondata.com. For the person interested in watching vitamin D intake, there is almost none in food, but a lot that the skin synthesizes in sunshine, so no tracker will be particularly helpful with vitamin D. I keep an eye on w-3/w-6 ratio, fiber, calcium & magnesium. If I'm out of whack on the first two, I might adjust my plan for the day. Or I might let it average out over the week. If I'm low on the last two, I might take a supplement. I too am skeptical about absorption, and not just for supplements. Whole foods can have different absorption properties depending on what else is consumed, but I don't worry or try to compensate for it. For that matter, spinach grown in one place may have more magnesium than spinach grown someplace else. It's all estimates.
I would imagine many of us have our omega 3 and omega 6 ratios out of whack. It's a good thing to consider.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
Putting aside potential issues with energy density, there's nothing inherently unhealthy about any of that. Poptarts probably present the least bang for your calorie-buck in terms of micronutrients, but they're not bad or junk, imo. As to the rest, there are nutritious ways to eat all of it. Not all ice cream and pizza are equal. You can get plenty of veggies on pizza, for example.
People just have to know what they're eating. And if we're at least under the pretense of tracking things, we should know what we're eating.
The point is that you can meet your macros and yet never eat fruits or veggies or any carbs other than sugar and refined grains. You also could meet your fat macro with a huge variety of different options, which are not all of equal nutrient quality. You could meet your protein with only protein bars or only bacon and high fat ground beef (well, if your fat macro is high enough) or also get lots of seafood and beans. There's a huge diversity possible, so eating in a healthy manner usually requires thinking about something other than macros.
Of course, my impression is that most people who do IIFYM do think about stuff other than just the macros.
I don't think that's necessarily true (that most people think about stuff other than macros). I think there are two large groups here. One group seems reasonably knowledgeable about these things. I think those people DO think about micronutrients, at least to some degree. They try to keep it reasonably balanced and healthy at least most of the time.
However, there are a lot of people here who don't even know what macro and micro mean and don't seem to understand the fundamentals of weight loss, let alone nutrition. People who ask which protein powder will help them lose the most weight the fastest probably aren't taking steps to make sure they get enough Vitamin B12 and potassium. And they keep hearing that you can eat anything you want as long as you stay under your calorie goal and focus on the macros....so they don't look any deeper.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
I agree with this, although I probably shouldn't speak to what IIFYM is, because my dislike of named diets extends to IIFYM too. If anything, I'd say I try to follow a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals. Often homecooked, with local in-season produce when possible, but I live in a big city with lots of great restaurants of a wide variety of types, and I am not cutting those out of my diet.
Yep, me too! I was just going with the IIFYM thing because that was the tread title. My (limited) reading of IIFYM is that that is what they are meaning. They just stuck a label on it cos apparently that's the thing to do!0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
I do know liver is really high in certain vitamins...A and B for sure. I think a bunch of others as well. Not sure about the other organs.
Hmmm...now I want some pate.
I looked. Definitely pretty nutritious. I've had liver once I think...Never had any other organ meats that I know of.
Even if I still ate meat, I couldn't do liver. An experiment in high school biology class with it and a beaker of acid was unforgettable. Don't ask.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
I do know liver is really high in certain vitamins...A and B for sure. I think a bunch of others as well. Not sure about the other organs.
Hmmm...now I want some pate.
I looked. Definitely pretty nutritious. I've had liver once I think...Never had any other organ meats that I know of.
I know I've had tongue at a Korean BBQ place. And I've had tripe and whatever the Chinese version of it is. I did not care for that...the texture was too tough. But live pate I really like and will never turn down.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
I agree with this, although I probably shouldn't speak to what IIFYM is, because my dislike of named diets extends to IIFYM too. If anything, I'd say I try to follow a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals. Often homecooked, with local in-season produce when possible, but I live in a big city with lots of great restaurants of a wide variety of types, and I am not cutting those out of my diet.
Yep, me too! I was just going with the IIFYM thing because that was the tread title. My (limited) reading of IIFYM is that that is what they are meaning. They just stuck a label on it cos apparently that's the thing to do!
IIFYM was actually a canned response on bodybuilding.com...it's not a diet...it's a concept. Basically, "hey bro...if I eat this oatmeal will it destroy my gainz?" Response, "IIFYM". Since then it has been completely bastardized by other websites claiming to be IIFYM and people who have no idea what the original intent of the concept was.
It was born out of the bodybuilding and fitness community...it was never intended to mean eat all the poo. IIFYM is basically a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals...but that doesn't roll of the tongue when you're responding to a bunch of bros on bodybuilding.com.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
Putting aside potential issues with energy density, there's nothing inherently unhealthy about any of that. Poptarts probably present the least bang for your calorie-buck in terms of micronutrients, but they're not bad or junk, imo. As to the rest, there are nutritious ways to eat all of it. Not all ice cream and pizza are equal. You can get plenty of veggies on pizza, for example.
People just have to know what they're eating. And if we're at least under the pretense of tracking things, we should know what we're eating.
The point is that you can meet your macros and yet never eat fruits or veggies or any carbs other than sugar and refined grains. You also could meet your fat macro with a huge variety of different options, which are not all of equal nutrient quality. You could meet your protein with only protein bars or only bacon and high fat ground beef (well, if your fat macro is high enough) or also get lots of seafood and beans. There's a huge diversity possible, so eating in a healthy manner usually requires thinking about something other than macros.
Of course, my impression is that most people who do IIFYM do think about stuff other than just the macros.
I don't think that's necessarily true (that most people think about stuff other than macros). I think there are two large groups here. One group seems reasonably knowledgeable about these things. I think those people DO think about micronutrients, at least to some degree. They try to keep it reasonably balanced and healthy at least most of the time.
However, there are a lot of people here who don't even know what macro and micro mean and don't seem to understand the fundamentals of weight loss, let alone nutrition. People who ask which protein powder will help them lose the most weight the fastest probably aren't taking steps to make sure they get enough Vitamin B12 and potassium. And they keep hearing that you can eat anything you want as long as you stay under your calorie goal and focus on the macros....so they don't look any deeper.
I pretty much agree about the groups, but I don't think the second group is doing IIFYM or watching their macros. They are the same people who write "how do I cut carbs" and quickly reveal that they have no idea what a carb is.
For them, I think simply trying to eat in a healthier way--which everyone somewhat understands, however poorly they eat--I mean basically incorporating some veggies and fruits and balanced meals, and focusing on calories is a good place to start, rather than making it too complicated. As you log, you presumably learn what foods have lots of sugar, etc. (as if anyone really was too stupid to know that), what foods make up what macros, what foods have lots of calories and aren't very filling, etc. I think it's a natural part of that process to then start noticing if you are hungry on days you get little fiber or if your carb level matters to satiating or if your protein is really low, and I similarly think it's normal to start noticing that more nutrient dense foods are often more filling.
As I've said before, I think a lot of these debates are between people who have largely similar ideas of what a good way to eat is (with the variation based on personal preference that is normal) but simply different ideas about why others choose not to eat that way or what will help them do so.
I don't think people need to be told what healthy eating is. I think they know, and either choose to care or not, and that as adults that's their decision.
I also think that figuring out what will make you satisfied on lower calories will make most people gravitate toward more nutrient dense foods.
Therefore, while I talk about what works for me, I don't think others have to be told to eat in a particular way. They'll figure out what works for them.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
I agree with this, although I probably shouldn't speak to what IIFYM is, because my dislike of named diets extends to IIFYM too. If anything, I'd say I try to follow a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals. Often homecooked, with local in-season produce when possible, but I live in a big city with lots of great restaurants of a wide variety of types, and I am not cutting those out of my diet.
Yep, me too! I was just going with the IIFYM thing because that was the tread title. My (limited) reading of IIFYM is that that is what they are meaning. They just stuck a label on it cos apparently that's the thing to do!
IIFYM was actually a canned response on bodybuilding.com...it's not a diet...it's a concept. Basically, "hey bro...if I eat this oatmeal will it destroy my gainz?" Response, "IIFYM". Since then it has been completely bastardized by other websites claiming to be IIFYM and people who have no idea what the original intent of the concept was.
It was born out of the bodybuilding and fitness community...it was never intended to mean eat all the poo. IIFYM is basically a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals...but that doesn't roll of the tongue when you're responding to a bunch of bros on bodybuilding.com.
Oh yes, I know this
. I've always taken it to mean that bolded bit. 0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
I do know liver is really high in certain vitamins...A and B for sure. I think a bunch of others as well. Not sure about the other organs.
Hmmm...now I want some pate.
I looked. Definitely pretty nutritious. I've had liver once I think...Never had any other organ meats that I know of.
Eating more offal is always on my vague set of goals, but other than liver which I do eat off and on I rarely get around to it.
Liver is the only one I've made at home to date, although I've had a variety of others at restaurants.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
I agree with this, although I probably shouldn't speak to what IIFYM is, because my dislike of named diets extends to IIFYM too. If anything, I'd say I try to follow a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals. Often homecooked, with local in-season produce when possible, but I live in a big city with lots of great restaurants of a wide variety of types, and I am not cutting those out of my diet.
Yep, me too! I was just going with the IIFYM thing because that was the tread title. My (limited) reading of IIFYM is that that is what they are meaning. They just stuck a label on it cos apparently that's the thing to do!
IIFYM was actually a canned response on bodybuilding.com...it's not a diet...it's a concept. Basically, "hey bro...if I eat this oatmeal will it destroy my gainz?" Response, "IIFYM". Since then it has been completely bastardized by other websites claiming to be IIFYM and people who have no idea what the original intent of the concept was.
It was born out of the bodybuilding and fitness community...it was never intended to mean eat all the poo. IIFYM is basically a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals...but that doesn't roll of the tongue when you're responding to a bunch of bros on bodybuilding.com.
This post should be a sticky.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
I do know liver is really high in certain vitamins...A and B for sure. I think a bunch of others as well. Not sure about the other organs.
Hmmm...now I want some pate.
I looked. Definitely pretty nutritious. I've had liver once I think...Never had any other organ meats that I know of.
Even if I still ate meat, I couldn't do liver. An experiment in high school biology class with it and a beaker of acid was unforgettable. Don't ask.
I had a similar experience, but with squid. I will never forgive my biology teacher.0 -
I passively do ITFYM, I try for 40/40/20, but I don't cry if I don't get it. I've always focused on two things with dieting/macros. Staying under budget and getting enough protein. Always try for 1 gram per my weight (180).
I just wonder if it's not better just to workout, track calories and get protein.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
I do know liver is really high in certain vitamins...A and B for sure. I think a bunch of others as well. Not sure about the other organs.
Hmmm...now I want some pate.
I looked. Definitely pretty nutritious. I've had liver once I think...Never had any other organ meats that I know of.
Eating more offal is always on my vague set of goals, but other than liver which I do eat off and on I rarely get around to it.
Liver is the only one I've made at home to date, although I've had a variety of others at restaurants.
Liver, rognons, andouillette, fois gras, pate, milzwurst, liverwurst, boudin are common enough here that I eat some sort of offal about once an month. Extremely rich nutrient food.
Other stuff I just can't handle - saumagen, saure kutteln, lung stew and headcheese (German or French) get a pass. <shudder>
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Yeahhhh.... I confess, I am super lazy about my macros.
I'm still more aware of them than I ever was before MFP but I know I have a lot of room to improve on that.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
Putting aside potential issues with energy density, there's nothing inherently unhealthy about any of that. Poptarts probably present the least bang for your calorie-buck in terms of micronutrients, but they're not bad or junk, imo. As to the rest, there are nutritious ways to eat all of it. Not all ice cream and pizza are equal. You can get plenty of veggies on pizza, for example.
People just have to know what they're eating. And if we're at least under the pretense of tracking things, we should know what we're eating.
The point is that you can meet your macros and yet never eat fruits or veggies or any carbs other than sugar and refined grains. You also could meet your fat macro with a huge variety of different options, which are not all of equal nutrient quality. You could meet your protein with only protein bars or only bacon and high fat ground beef (well, if your fat macro is high enough) or also get lots of seafood and beans. There's a huge diversity possible, so eating in a healthy manner usually requires thinking about something other than macros.
Of course, my impression is that most people who do IIFYM do think about stuff other than just the macros.
I don't think that's necessarily true (that most people think about stuff other than macros). I think there are two large groups here. One group seems reasonably knowledgeable about these things. I think those people DO think about micronutrients, at least to some degree. They try to keep it reasonably balanced and healthy at least most of the time.
However, there are a lot of people here who don't even know what macro and micro mean and don't seem to understand the fundamentals of weight loss, let alone nutrition. People who ask which protein powder will help them lose the most weight the fastest probably aren't taking steps to make sure they get enough Vitamin B12 and potassium. And they keep hearing that you can eat anything you want as long as you stay under your calorie goal and focus on the macros....so they don't look any deeper.
You're wrong. The are 3 groups. The ones that know what they are talking about, the ones that don't know what they are talking about and lastly the group that thinks they know what they are talking about but they really don't.
The latter being the most dangerous.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
I agree with this, although I probably shouldn't speak to what IIFYM is, because my dislike of named diets extends to IIFYM too. If anything, I'd say I try to follow a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals. Often homecooked, with local in-season produce when possible, but I live in a big city with lots of great restaurants of a wide variety of types, and I am not cutting those out of my diet.
Yep, me too! I was just going with the IIFYM thing because that was the tread title. My (limited) reading of IIFYM is that that is what they are meaning. They just stuck a label on it cos apparently that's the thing to do!
IIFYM was actually a canned response on bodybuilding.com...it's not a diet...it's a concept. Basically, "hey bro...if I eat this oatmeal will it destroy my gainz?" Response, "IIFYM". Since then it has been completely bastardized by other websites claiming to be IIFYM and people who have no idea what the original intent of the concept was.
It was born out of the bodybuilding and fitness community...it was never intended to mean eat all the poo. IIFYM is basically a flexible dieting plan with a focus on eating balanced, nutritious, and delicious meals...but that doesn't roll of the tongue when you're responding to a bunch of bros on bodybuilding.com.
While I'm not disagreeing with the post above, there is something that many people don't realize, including what is probably the majority of people on this site about bodybuilding.com, and that's that the term IIFYM amongst a large portion and many of the "bros" in the nutrition section is not respected. There are well respected threads about nutrition that go into nutrition on a level that is rarely reached on here where saying IIFYM is not allowed and can result in you being banned for saying it
Where is the petition for "Shakeology, HerbalLife, and Detox" being a bannable offense on here?0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
On my way out the door, so someone else may have mentioned it and I haven't read yet - the LCD group did a Meat Only challenge for May. If you want to go see how it went, they had ongoing check in threads through the month - it was only a dozen or so that participated afaik.0
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