Starvation mode with too much exercise?
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Yeah Lemurcat12 gave the best answer. Of course your metabolism will slow down if you don't get a certain amount of calories and this is "starvation mode". The problem is, it won't be a sudden starvation mode. It takes years of a drastic caloric deficit before you see it, but it's still possible. I know many woman (overweight) who eat around 1200 calories a day but are very active. Yet, their calorie maintenance is 2800, yet they won't gain or lose a pound. People will then say they are lying, but those people Don't understand not everyone is fat from overeating. It's not as simple as just eat less or exercise more. If it was everyone would be perfect.
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So, if my BMR is 2600 a day and myfitnesspal wants me to consume 2000 calories a day with 600 calories of exercise, I do not need to worry about my metabolism slowing down over time correct?0
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If you starve, your body will reduce both fat and lean body mass. This results in less calories burn. That's it, no starvation mode.
Starvation mode doesn't even make sense in terms of evolution. All life is fighting to do more with less energy, if your body had a high efficiency mode, why would it ever notbe in starvation mode? We started walking on two legs instead of lopping on forearms to save just a few hundred calories a year, but you think our body has a reduced calorie mode it just turns on because you cut a snickers or two out of your daily calorie intake?0 -
LOL
Starvation mode...
I still come back to children in Ethiopia.....obviously they did it wrong.
Or people that are anorexic....
Or Christian Bale when he did The Machinist......
The body is a machine, and looks for the most efficient way to do what it can with what it has, while preserving life.
As long as you can "fog a mirror"....guess what, your metabolism is working as it should be.0 -
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LOL
Starvation mode...
I still come back to children in Ethiopia.....obviously they did it wrong.
Or people that are anorexic....
Or Christian Bale when he did The Machinist......
The body is a machine, and looks for the most efficient way to do what it can with what it has, while preserving life.
As long as you can "fog a mirror"....guess what, your metabolism is working as it should be.
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AshLittle1 wrote: »
Right so it is not "starvation mode" or you damaged your metabolism
It is the bodies natural response based on the environment it has been given.
It adapted.
You will lose weight being in deficit....it may get slower to do so over time, but rest assured given long enough time, your body will continue to drop weight....
You will not just get to some point and stop losing weight (unless you die) and the body just starts storing fat.....
Doesn't work that way.....which is what people believe is "starvation mode"
"Oh I stopped losing weight, and now I am just holding fat....blah blah blah"
NOOOOOO!!!!! you stopped losing weight because you are no longer in a calorie deficit.
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I just came across an article from the Oxford Journal. Basically there is a metabolic adaptation that takes place with severe caloric reduction, 1000-1200 calories consumed per day but exercise reduces the effect of the metabolic adaptation. I am still having trouble finding out information about, at what level of caloric restriction does metabolic adaptation start taking place?
http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/2/196.full0 -
DemoraFairy wrote: »On the subject of starvation mode, you might find this interesting, basically explains why starvation mode doesn't exist and won't stop you losing weight: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
Netting 1000 calories a day isn't recommended for small, sedentary women, let along an active guy with a TDEE of 3500. You don't generally want to be in a deficit of more than 1000 calories a day, so if your TDEE is 3500 you want to eat 2500.
Great article!0 -
AshLittle1 wrote: »I just came across an article from the Oxford Journal. Basically there is a metabolic adaptation that takes place with severe caloric reduction, 1000-1200 calories consumed per day but exercise reduces the effect of the metabolic adaptation. I am still having trouble finding out information about, at what level of caloric restriction does metabolic adaptation start taking place?
http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/2/196.full
I think each person is different based on a whole host of other variables....
Total BF
exercise
age
health
etc.....
So there is no "Hey this is when your adaptation happens your metabolism slows down"
Again, like I said earlier....Your body responds and adapts based on a whole host of variables.....
Our bodies are very smart at doing its number one job....preserving life.
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AshLittle1 wrote: »So, if my BMR is 2600 a day and myfitnesspal wants me to consume 2000 calories a day with 600 calories of exercise, I do not need to worry about my metabolism slowing down over time correct?
Your metabolism WILL slow down over time if you lose weight, but you don't need to worry about it. It's natural and not preventable since there will be less of you to carry out your normal functions, your body will need less energy.
However I also believe that people's TDEE does suffer if they eat too little, which can lower their calorie maintenance level. If you are severely under-eating, your body will respond by feeling both physically and mentally sluggish. You won't have adequate energy intake or nutrition, which could result in medical issues. Therefore, your body's defense will to make you feel exhausted, and you won't move around as much. This lack of fuel will then lower your TDEE as you just won't feel up to doing physical activities with the same strength you once did. This is not "starvation mode," because your metabolism won't suddenly quit (except for death), and you will still lose weight because no magical internal process will decide to store fat instead of burn it while in deficit. But you will feel crappy. That's why people generally tell others to eat more if they're eating a low amount of calories.0 -
OP, here's a discussion of the study I referred to:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251
People get sensitive about the term "starvation mode" because it gets used improperly all the time, to mean that you will stop losing weight. That's not true, but I think there's evidence that it can affect metabolism more than simply losing weight and that part of that is avoidable, and also having too aggressive a deficit might affect energy (which will result in a lower TDEE) or cause increased loss of muscle mass, so there are good reasons not to be too aggressive.
What being too aggressive is depends in part on how much you have to lose.
What matters isn't your BMR, but your TDEE, and most people won't want to go more than 1000 below their TDEE, with a lower amount (more like 500 or, say 20%) if you have less to lose and even less if you are close to goal and worried about keeping as much muscle as possible.
MFP's general plan of adding more calories as you exercise more is consistent with that, but many of us only eat back part of those calories since the amounts sometimes seem too large.
What made sense to me was just to watch how much I was losing over a month and adjust.0 -
AshLittle1 wrote: »I just came across an article from the Oxford Journal. Basically there is a metabolic adaptation that takes place with severe caloric reduction, 1000-1200 calories consumed per day but exercise reduces the effect of the metabolic adaptation. I am still having trouble finding out information about, at what level of caloric restriction does metabolic adaptation start taking place?
http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/2/196.full
That may be one of those things where you'll know it when you see it. When you aren't eating enough, finding the energy to exercise is difficult. For that matter, doing much more than just sitting around doing nothing is difficult. If you continue to exercise anyway, yes, your metabolism will stay more elevated, but you'll eventually reach a point where you can't convince yourself to exercise. But if you have energy to do stuff, you aren't in the "metabolic adaption" or "starvation mode" or whatever you choose to call it.
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astralpictures wrote: »AshLittle1 wrote: »So, if my BMR is 2600 a day and myfitnesspal wants me to consume 2000 calories a day with 600 calories of exercise, I do not need to worry about my metabolism slowing down over time correct?
Your metabolism WILL slow down over time if you lose weight, but you don't need to worry about it. It's natural and not preventable since there will be less of you to carry out your normal functions, your body will need less energy.
However I also believe that people's TDEE does suffer if they eat too little, which can lower their calorie maintenance level. If you are severely under-eating, your body will respond by feeling both physically and mentally sluggish. You won't have adequate energy intake or nutrition, which could result in medical issues. Therefore, your body's defense will to make you feel exhausted, and you won't move around as much. This lack of fuel will then lower your TDEE as you just won't feel up to doing physical activities with the same strength you once did. This is not "starvation mode," because your metabolism won't suddenly quit (except for death), and you will still lose weight because no magical internal process will decide to store fat instead of burn it while in deficit. But you will feel crappy. That's why people generally tell others to eat more if they're eating a low amount of calories.lemurcat12 wrote: »OP, here's a discussion of the study I referred to:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251
People get sensitive about the term "starvation mode" because it gets used improperly all the time, to mean that you will stop losing weight. That's not true, but I think there's evidence that it can affect metabolism more than simply losing weight and that part of that is avoidable, and also having too aggressive a deficit might affect energy (which will result in a lower TDEE) or cause increased loss of muscle mass, so there are good reasons not to be too aggressive.
What being too aggressive is depends in part on how much you have to lose.
What matters isn't your BMR, but your TDEE, and most people won't want to go more than 1000 below their TDEE, with a lower amount (more like 500 or, say 20%) if you have less to lose and even less if you are close to goal and worried about keeping as much muscle as possible.
MFP's general plan of adding more calories as you exercise more is consistent with that, but many of us only eat back part of those calories since the amounts sometimes seem too large.
What made sense to me was just to watch how much I was losing over a month and adjust.
If you lose weight and part of that weight is muscle, then yes, your Energy needs will drop as well.
That is why most people on here recommend weight lifting while losing weight.
It keeps your energy requirements high.
Body fat does not require energy to maintain, it is purely a store of energy.
Muscle however does require energy to maintain.
So when losing weight, your should prioritize maintaining as much muscle as possible during the process.0 -
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OP, how sbout you just use MFP for awhile, concentrate on logging what you eat, getting some exercise, and making healthy food choices *most* of the time. Look at what got you to the point where you need to lose weight (too much junk food? emotional eating? portion control?) and pick an area to improve on. There are several ways to come up with a calorie goal for your height, current weight and desired pace of weight loss. You could research it for hours. I suggests you just plug it all into mfp snd let it figure it out for you, with the default macros. Then log religiously, eat back some exercise calories, weigh weekly, drink lots of water and settle into this new approach to food& health. Just keep it simple & don't overthink. In a month or so, assess how things are going.0
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If you let your calories drop beyond a certain point for a certain amount of time, your metabolism shuts down. I was wondering, if I keep my calories at a healthy level but do a lot of cardio and weight training, burning enough calories to put me at a low net calorie count for the day, will my body enter its starvation mode and slow my metabolism?
"Starvation Mode" gets batted around here a lot.
Generally speaking, you will not do damage to your metabolism until you get down into true starvation ranges of body fat - like single digit percentages.
However, when you lose body fat your Leptin levels drop, and when that happens your body responds by making skeletal muscle operate about 20% more efficiently. This results in about a 10%-15% reduction in overall metabolism.
This is not "starvation mode", it is called "Adaptive Thermogenesis". This has been seen in the laboratory under controlled circumstances for weeks and has been extrapolated out to persist for years.
The result is that someone who was once obese and lost weight will have a metabolism that is 10%-15% less than someone of the same body composition who was never obese. This equates to 200-300 fewer calories that will be needed for weight maintenance.
So will your metabolism slow as a result of fat loss? Yes, about 10%-15%. But it is a response to fat loss, not calorie restriction.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
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Yeah Lemurcat12 gave the best answer. Of course your metabolism will slow down if you don't get a certain amount of calories and this is "starvation mode". The problem is, it won't be a sudden starvation mode. It takes years of a drastic caloric deficit before you see it, but it's still possible. I know many woman (overweight) who eat around 1200 calories a day but are very active. Yet, their calorie maintenance is 2800, yet they won't gain or lose a pound. People will then say they are lying, but those people Don't understand not everyone is fat from overeating. It's not as simple as just eat less or exercise more. If it was everyone would be perfect.
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So, if my BMR is 2600 a day and myfitnesspal wants me to consume 2000 calories a day with 600 calories of exercise, I do not need to worry about my metabolism slowing down over time correct?
you are conflating two things...starvation mode and metabolic adaptation...
Yes, if you diet over the course of X amount of time with no breaks then you will have metabolic adaptation and your metabolism naturally slows down.
Starvation Mode = chronically underrating to the point of malnourishment where your body turns on itself for energy and starts using muscle and organs for energy.0 -
maillemaker wrote: »
"Starvation Mode" gets batted around here a lot.
Generally speaking, you will not do damage to your metabolism until you get down into true starvation ranges of body fat - like single digit percentages.
Even that is debatable...
My BF% is in the single digits I am quite certain.....and keep it there for a while over the course of the summer.....
So metabolic damage is highly suggestive.
Your body responds properly to what it is given.
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Rule # 0: forget everything you think you know about "starvation mode".
It's bulkshit.
Yeah.
That's right.
Unadulterated Horse Hockey.
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maillemaker wrote: »
Interesting study.
I would love to see them do a similar study where they had the subjects (a portion of the people) partake in resistance training over the course of their weight loss.
With this study it just seems that they had the subjects diet and not do anything to maintain muscle during the process....so of course their energy requirements would also go down, and as such their likeliness to put back on weight would be great. As well as it getting harder for them to lose weight......
Because when they put back on the weight, it would be fat and not muscle.....so as I stated earlier, there is no energy demand to maintain fat stores like there is to maintain muscle.
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maillemaker wrote: »If you let your calories drop beyond a certain point for a certain amount of time, your metabolism shuts down. I was wondering, if I keep my calories at a healthy level but do a lot of cardio and weight training, burning enough calories to put me at a low net calorie count for the day, will my body enter its starvation mode and slow my metabolism?
"Starvation Mode" gets batted around here a lot.
Generally speaking, you will not do damage to your metabolism until you get down into true starvation ranges of body fat - like single digit percentages.
However, when you lose body fat your Leptin levels drop, and when that happens your body responds by making skeletal muscle operate about 20% more efficiently. This results in about a 10%-15% reduction in overall metabolism.
This is not "starvation mode", it is called "Adaptive Thermogenesis". This has been seen in the laboratory under controlled circumstances for weeks and has been extrapolated out to persist for years.
The result is that someone who was once obese and lost weight will have a metabolism that is 10%-15% less than someone of the same body composition who was never obese. This equates to 200-300 fewer calories that will be needed for weight maintenance.
So will your metabolism slow as a result of fat loss? Yes, about 10%-15%. But it is a response to fat loss, not calorie restriction.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
Please find me a study where Leibel didn't draw his data from patients who had lost weight on DRASTICALLY low calorie intakes.
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Good read.
Take note of the last Q&A on that page.
I think a lot of people do this....
"Oh I only eat 1200 calories/day (honest). And cannot lose weight"0 -
maillemaker wrote: »If you let your calories drop beyond a certain point for a certain amount of time, your metabolism shuts down. I was wondering, if I keep my calories at a healthy level but do a lot of cardio and weight training, burning enough calories to put me at a low net calorie count for the day, will my body enter its starvation mode and slow my metabolism?
"Starvation Mode" gets batted around here a lot.
Generally speaking, you will not do damage to your metabolism until you get down into true starvation ranges of body fat - like single digit percentages.
However, when you lose body fat your Leptin levels drop, and when that happens your body responds by making skeletal muscle operate about 20% more efficiently. This results in about a 10%-15% reduction in overall metabolism.
This is not "starvation mode", it is called "Adaptive Thermogenesis". This has been seen in the laboratory under controlled circumstances for weeks and has been extrapolated out to persist for years.
The result is that someone who was once obese and lost weight will have a metabolism that is 10%-15% less than someone of the same body composition who was never obese. This equates to 200-300 fewer calories that will be needed for weight maintenance.
So will your metabolism slow as a result of fat loss? Yes, about 10%-15%. But it is a response to fat loss, not calorie restriction.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
The claims you're making from that study go against the actual experimental results of the Minnesota starvation study. The participants in that study all recovered their metabolic rate within a short window of returning to maintenance.
You're also misquoting what the study says:
"The pre-eminence of NREE - accounting for as much of 85–90% of the decline in TEE below predicted values in weight-reduced subjects 20, 22". That means most of the change in calories isn't your body turning on some hidden efficiency switch - it means your body is turning on a "hey, let's not do so much stuff" switch.0
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