fat vs water weight?
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OP stands for original poster or original post
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I guess I will chime in since no one else has explicitly mentioned the following so far.
When you lose water weight you are not necessarily getting dehydrated
When you exercise one of the first sources of energy that gets utilized by your muscles are their "ready reserves".
The ready reserves consist of (desperately googling) about 400g of glycogen in your muscles (and another 100 in your liver).
The glycogen gets created when (excess) carbohydrates in your diet are processed by the liver and converted to glycogen. Each carbohydrate gram is bound with almost 3g of water during this process.
So when the glycogen is eventually consumed, each gram of carbohydrate that gets used also releases the associated amount of water.
And if you eat a low carb diet and exercise and you follow that up with a high carb diet, you may inadvertently trigger glucogen "supercompensation", which will allow you to store excess glycogen and thus "gain" even more water weight (something that happens commonly when people who low carb eat "too many" carbs)
And since most of us have issues with: hormones, salt intake, poop we didn't poop on time, and varying stores of glycogen, it pays to actually weigh yourself every day at the same time and under the same conditions AND to record that weight in such a way that you end up with a "trendline" that eliminates the noise and shows you what is happening with your weight as a trend as opposed to a daily number you react to.
You can use applications such as www.weightgrapher.com, www.trendweight.com, something called happy scale on an iphone, or Scooby's excel spreadsheet: http://d16kc6rd0714uz.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AccurateWeightCharting.xls to record your weight and figure out how much weight you're really losing.
Scooby's article about weighting yourself and digital scale issues is passably interesting http://scoobysworkshop.com/how-to-weigh-yourself-accurately/
OF course, none of this will tell you whether you are burning fat or muscle, but at least you'll have a better idea of how much you're burning away
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Well I'm an astronaut green beret cowboy president doctor and I says it's water weight.
Balance is restored.0 -
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I shouldn't even respond anymore, because it's obvious everyone commenting thinks I'm rude and a dumb nurse with no cridentials.
However the last comment about daily weights was made and I have to completely agree because that's what I mentioned in one of my first comments. However I was shot down because "real life doesn't function like a hosptial." I only have one reality, and if it works for sickies, it must work for everyone. Everything I understand about fluid volume excess and deficit states we are in constant fluctuation...for all the reasons mentioned. So many factors right? Glycogen like you've stated, pth, aldosterone, cortisol, the presence and absence of certain disease process...etc. etc.etc.
With that said, I guess the only true way to measure fat loss, water loss onward, is to pay for a hydrostatic fat composition test right? I believe it is the gold standard for every other style of measuring body fat, and the most accurate indication of fat and muscle gains or losses. Too bad we couldn't do that everyday. I hope we're done attacking each other. I honestly have the best intension when posting anything and not that I care if you like me or not, it just more productive when it's positive. Maybe just a theory.0 -
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To correct myself, MrM27, what probably happened to make it type that was I found myself thinking from a nursing diagnosis standpoint and only meaning to say you may not understand where I was coming from because it's a nurse thing, not that you were incapable. I do rememeber feeling defensive because you were attacking a harmless post and wanted me to explain myself scientifically to address a question that it wasn't necessary for. Medical theory, nursing theory, pathophysiology is complex and when you teach the general public you must take into account that the average American reading level is somewhere on junior high level. Not to say this poster was average either, just part of standard practice. Best to keep things simple and address the signs and symptoms. Of course people in the know are thinking a thousand things when someone asks a question such as this. You're obviously very passionate, hopefully you see that in me as well. Maybe we can change opinions of each other now that we've devoted so much energy into this blog today and possibly have a better understanding of each other...would that be nice.0
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Leslierussell4134 wrote: »To correct myself, MrM27, what probably happened to make it type that was I found myself thinking from a nursing diagnosis standpoint and only meaning to say you may not understand where I was coming from because it's a nurse thing, not that you were incapable. I do rememeber feeling defensive because you were attacking a harmless post and wanted me to explain myself scientifically to address a question that it wasn't necessary for. Medical theory, nursing theory, pathophysiology is complex and when you teach the general public you must take into account that the average American reading level is somewhere on junior high level. Not to say this poster was average either, just part of standard practice. Best to keep things simple and address the signs and symptoms. Of course people in the know are thinking a thousand things when someone asks a question such as this. You're obviously very passionate, hopefully you see that in me as well. Maybe we can change opinions of each other now that we've devoted so much energy into this blog today and possibly have a better understanding of each other...would that be nice.
Yeah, we can't all achieve "prefection"
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arditarose wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »To correct myself, MrM27, what probably happened to make it type that was I found myself thinking from a nursing diagnosis standpoint and only meaning to say you may not understand where I was coming from because it's a nurse thing, not that you were incapable. I do rememeber feeling defensive because you were attacking a harmless post and wanted me to explain myself scientifically to address a question that it wasn't necessary for. Medical theory, nursing theory, pathophysiology is complex and when you teach the general public you must take into account that the average American reading level is somewhere on junior high level. Not to say this poster was average either, just part of standard practice. Best to keep things simple and address the signs and symptoms. Of course people in the know are thinking a thousand things when someone asks a question such as this. You're obviously very passionate, hopefully you see that in me as well. Maybe we can change opinions of each other now that we've devoted so much energy into this blog today and possibly have a better understanding of each other...would that be nice.
Yeah, we can't all achieve "prefection"
Isn't that the truth, and how boring that would be if it were so.0 -
lol0
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@Leslierussell4134
Save this thread and come back to it in a couple of years. It'll be amazing to you how much you've grown.
About half of the new grads I've worked with think they know it all too. They think nursing diagnosis are the s***. They think they know more than the CNAs and paramedics because they have some shiny new letters after their name.
I obviously don't know you from Adam. But the things you've written are very typical of those new nurses. Try and listen more than you talk, or here to read more than you write, and you may learn a thing or two.
In nursing school, they teach you how to pass boards. On orientation, they teach you how to avoid killing your patients. The first several years after that is when the real learning starts. Try and be humble for the time being. You don't know what you don't know.
A lot of the statements you've made have been factually incorrect. Your hubris and attitude have not endeared you to many people in this thread. Don't make the same mistake professionally.
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Does MFP have moderators?
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Leslierussell4134 wrote: »To correct myself, MrM27, what probably happened to make it type that was I found myself thinking from a nursing diagnosis standpoint and only meaning to say you may not understand where I was coming from because it's a nurse thing, not that you were incapable. I do rememeber feeling defensive because you were attacking a harmless post and wanted me to explain myself scientifically to address a question that it wasn't necessary for. Medical theory, nursing theory, pathophysiology is complex and when you teach the general public you must take into account that the average American reading level is somewhere on junior high level. Not to say this poster was average either, just part of standard practice. Best to keep things simple and address the signs and symptoms. Of course people in the know are thinking a thousand things when someone asks a question such as this. You're obviously very passionate, hopefully you see that in me as well. Maybe we can change opinions of each other now that we've devoted so much energy into this blog today and possibly have a better understanding of each other...would that be nice.
You might want to get more familiar with this community before you start making broad generalizations about the possible knowledge other posters may or may not understand. You might find that you are not even the only educated medical professional here. There are quite a few of them, possibly even right here in this thread.
To the OP, welcome to MFP and best of luck! There is a lot of info here on the forums and it can take a while to get it all straight. I try to read on the forums at least a couple of times a week, learn something new all the time 0 -
pollypocket1021 wrote: »@Leslierussell4134
Save this thread and come back to it in a couple of years. It'll be amazing to you how much you've grown.
About half of the new grads I've worked with think they know it all too. They think nursing diagnosis are the s***. They think they know more than the CNAs and paramedics because they have some shiny new letters after their name.
I obviously don't know you from Adam. But the things you've written are very typical of those new nurses. Try and listen more than you talk, or here to read more than you write, and you may learn a thing or two.
In nursing school, they teach you how to pass boards. On orientation, they teach you how to avoid killing your patients. The first several years after that is when the real learning starts. Try and be humble for the time being. You don't know what you don't know.
A lot of the statements you've made have been factually incorrect. Your hubris and attitude have not endeared you to many people in this thread. Don't make the same mistake professionally.
We take knowledge from each part of our lives, and a person can learn much more than any formal education can provide. I don't doubt there are medical people, scientist and engineers on this post, I'm surrounded by passionate intelligent people. We all crave the knowledge, otherwise we wouldn't waste time here in the first place.
There's nothing wrong with being a new nurse, new doctor, new to myfitnesspal, I thought everyone had the common goal of health. I'm not preaching, I told the op to seek info and, oh here's a few tips I have tried it know to be helpful.
I'm smart enough to know, I know only a small fraction of what I can and that I'll never know enough. That's the fun of it. I'll contine to ask, thank and smile at the things I read on here.0 -
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Leslierussell4134 wrote: »To correct myself, MrM27, what probably happened to make it type that was I found myself thinking from a nursing diagnosis standpoint and only meaning to say you may not understand where I was coming from because it's a nurse thing, not that you were incapable. I do rememeber feeling defensive because you were attacking a harmless post and wanted me to explain myself scientifically to address a question that it wasn't necessary for. Medical theory, nursing theory, pathophysiology is complex and when you teach the general public you must take into account that the average American reading level is somewhere on junior high level. Not to say this poster was average either, just part of standard practice. Best to keep things simple and address the signs and symptoms. Of course people in the know are thinking a thousand things when someone asks a question such as this. You're obviously very passionate, hopefully you see that in me as well. Maybe we can change opinions of each other now that we've devoted so much energy into this blog today and possibly have a better understanding of each other...would that be nice.
What makes you think I won't understand nursing stuff?
I guess nothing, but from your comments I could tell you weren't a nurse because you said hosptial and real life anecdotes were different. And if you are a nurse than this is a prime example of you attacking your young. Nurses tend it lift each other up and understand where we each are coming from. Most people who are as educated as yourself do that as well, you just seem to like to pick until someone says something you can dive for. I not into the back and forth kind of thing, but somehow you managed to suck me in today, good job, you won.
I'm sure you're an awesome person from behind the key board, even if we'd never interact in outside cyberspace.
So many things to do, no more energy for this post. Take care.0 -
You can try one of those smart scales. They give you an idea on your fat percentage.
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That was cute wasn't it.UltimateRBF wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »The simple way is to only weigh yourself once per week or once each 2 weeks. As long as you don't have a fluid retention issue and you're not dehydrating your body to see loses, this interval should work well to determine the difference.
1 liter of water weighs 2.2 lbs. It is unsafe to lose and gain more than 2 pounds of water per day regularly, it messes up the electrolytes in your blood stream; potassium, sodium etc. Focus on consuming the recommended water each day and on days that you weigh, make it the first thing in the morning at the same time, with the same cloths on or naked, after your morning bathroom visit. I'm a nurse and this is how we weigh people in the hosptial when we are monitoring their fluids.
Sorry but none of that has anything to do with distinguishing fat loss from water loss. Weighing once a week or every other week tells you nothing. Also, your patients aren't running on treadmills or lifts weights. Real life works different than an in hospital setting.
I won't argue because you won't understand it likely.
However, for this poster, if you consume enough water...continue to pee...and are not dehydrated...and continue to lose weight...you're either losing fat or muscle...there is nothing else it could be.
And the great thing is "healthy bodies" tend to work mostly the same. No one will ever be able to lose a pound a day consistently...that's water and you will die...period. You're probably letting go of some excess water, don't worry, it will level out. Again, if you have no medical problems and aren't doing any of the other things I mentioned.
Good luck!!!
LOLOL
Arguing medical with you.. riiiight.
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Leslierussell4134 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »The simple way is to only weigh yourself once per week or once each 2 weeks. As long as you don't have a fluid retention issue and you're not dehydrating your body to see loses, this interval should work well to determine the difference.
1 liter of water weighs 2.2 lbs. It is unsafe to lose and gain more than 2 pounds of water per day regularly, it messes up the electrolytes in your blood stream; potassium, sodium etc. Focus on consuming the recommended water each day and on days that you weigh, make it the first thing in the morning at the same time, with the same cloths on or naked, after your morning bathroom visit. I'm a nurse and this is how we weigh people in the hosptial when we are monitoring their fluids.
Sorry but none of that has anything to do with distinguishing fat loss from water loss. Weighing once a week or every other week tells you nothing. Also, your patients aren't running on treadmills or lifts weights. Real life works different than an in hospital setting.
I won't argue because you won't understand it likely.
However, for this poster, if you consume enough water...continue to pee...and are not dehydrated...and continue to lose weight...you're either losing fat or muscle...there is nothing else it could be.
And the great thing is "healthy bodies" tend to work mostly the same. No one will ever be able to lose a pound a day consistently...that's water and you will die...period. You're probably letting go of some excess water, don't worry, it will level out. Again, if you have no medical problems and aren't doing any of the other things I mentioned.
Good luck!!!
I lost 9 lbs. in my first 10 days of working out. Same scale at the gym. My boyfriend always weighs 150-151 and his weight was dead on so I think the scale was functioning just fine.
It can happen. It probably is water. But I'm not dead.0 -
Agree 100%. I'm a psych RN, always have been. If you threw me in labor and delivery, I'd be lost to say the least and it would be a very bad day for me and the poor patients. Nobody can retain everything they learn in school, even doctors use google and advise from other doctors.Leslierussell4134 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »The simple way is to only weigh yourself once per week or once each 2 weeks. As long as you don't have a fluid retention issue and you're not dehydrating your body to see loses, this interval should work well to determine the difference.
1 liter of water weighs 2.2 lbs. It is unsafe to lose and gain more than 2 pounds of water per day regularly, it messes up the electrolytes in your blood stream; potassium, sodium etc. Focus on consuming the recommended water each day and on days that you weigh, make it the first thing in the morning at the same time, with the same cloths on or naked, after your morning bathroom visit. I'm a nurse and this is how we weigh people in the hosptial when we are monitoring their fluids.
Sorry but none of that has anything to do with distinguishing fat loss from water loss. Weighing once a week or every other week tells you nothing. Also, your patients aren't running on treadmills or lifts weights. Real life works different than an in hospital setting.
I won't argue because you won't understand it likely.
However, for this poster, if you consume enough water...continue to pee...and are not dehydrated...and continue to lose weight...you're either losing fat or muscle...there is nothing else it could be.
And the great thing is "healthy bodies" tend to work mostly the same. No one will ever be able to lose a pound a day consistently...that's water and you will die...period. You're probably letting go of some excess water, don't worry, it will level out. Again, if you have no medical problems and aren't doing any of the other things I mentioned.
Good luck!!!
Go ahead and try to explain it to me I'm pretty sure I'm going to have no problems understanding whatever points you attempt to make. Try your best.
And as far just one of the last things you just said, "you're either losing fat or muscle...there is nothing else it could be", I understand you might be trying to over simplify the process for the OP but you shouldn't present inaccurate information like that. You should know that a person losing weight can lose fat, lbm, glycogen, water. We won't be retaining the same exact amount of glycogen day in and day out and it will vary based on activity, intake and how much muscle you actually have. Then you have undigested food and not to mention cortisol which will also affect water retention.
So like I said, feel free to explain what you think I won't understand, you might be surprised.
Critical thinking cannot be explained in a blog post. If you want to know what I meant you can ask your doctor. Last I checked we don't pee out glycogen...we pee out glucose...and not by itself...Ouch that would hurt right!! Pee and every thing that can come out with it comes out in the typical yellow stuff we see on the toilet...called urine. You are throwing our things you'd see in unhealthy people...my comment clearly said healthy. If you have issues or concerns and are not healthy please go see a doctor quickly. I'm just a nurse...what do I know.
Well you can take the approach that somehow I don't understand what you might try to explain and attempt to mask it with humor. The fact that you think I said anything about peeing out glycogen is a clear demonstration that you're not ready to get into a back and forth of how things work. At any point you're more than willing to attempt to demonstrate how dumb I am by explaining what it is I don't know. Feel free.
And just so you know, being a nurse validates your statements by no factor. Don't overstate how much you think you might know. You know and I know that we work with many nurses that are clueless when it comes to things like this.
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Take measurements rather than relying solely on scales. Choose one time of day, once a week. Don't rely on your BMI, but use it and other fitness measurements, such as your waist to hip, and waist to height ratios to see where your body fat composition is likely to lie. Together with your BMI they'll give you a better idea of where you fall-it won't be specific, but it should be close enough to maintain a healthy and safe loss.
Scales will only take you so far, as sooner or later you will hopefully be gaining muscle mass which will affect your weight. You can add these measurements to your check in, and you'll be able to get the reports for them. For example, I gained 1lbs in the last 3 weeks, but I've lost an inch from my waist and hips in the last 3 weeks. Water weight will fluctuate a lot, I gain up to 2 lbs throughout the day and at the beginning could lose as many as 3-4 overnight. But the inches continue to decrease even when I stick in a weight area for a week or so here and there. I can see that in the reports, which helps maintain motivation even when the scale is "stuck."
Hope that's helpful.0 -
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I have to interject here. With respect to all nurses and/or affiliated medical fields.. and a fun kitty-fight.You can try one of those smart scales. They give you an idea on your fat percentage.
But fat percentages off of scales?
No. Just... no.
Buy a digital scale for the convenience, or the wi-fi, or the whatever; but, don't buy it with the expectation that the fat % means something.
About the only thing "accurate" about the fat % as measured by my scale during the three months I've owned it is that it recognizes (MOST of the time) that I am losing fat!
Of course, according to the readings, I am also losing muscle at a full 1 to 2 ratio to fat.
Luckily when this alarming trend materialized over a period of two months and 12lbs, I was able to throw money at it, and based on (yet another) DXA scan I was reassured that muscle to fat loss was actually 1 to 9.7 as opposed to 1:2
Data in question:
March 3 vs May 7 (65 days)
Weight: 203.3lb vs 191.3lb (12lbs)
DXA fat %: 32.90% vs 29.40% (-10.64%)
Bioimpedance Scale fat %: 25.40% vs 23.70% (-6.69%; a difference of > 37%)
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Measure with a tape measure as well as weighing weekly or monthly at the same time of day in the same clothes or without clothes. My scales give body fat % too.0
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