What is heavy?
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@Sam_I_Am77:
People progress just fine lifting 2x15. I would rather do that than a single one rep max.
I believe you misunderstood the question. OP is basically asking what strength training is.
And I can do probably 50 reps of half of my one rep max in most exercises. I don't call that "lifting heavy".0 -
kozykondition1 wrote: »@Sam_I_Am77:
People progress just fine lifting 2x15. I would rather do that than a single one rep max.
I believe you misunderstood the question. OP is basically asking what strength training is.
And I can do probably 50 reps of half of my one rep max in most exercises. I don't call that "lifting heavy".
The question to this thread is "What is heavy?" and I provided an answer to that specific question or really just supported Jo's. I did not say lifting 20 reps is ineffective, Part of your response was,"Lifting Heavy" is being unable to do the same motion with a weight more than 20 times in a row.
That is not heavy lifting, that is more along the lines of what would be prescribed for stability or endurance training. I did not criticize the use of such a training variable because it has it's place in training, I just countered that it is not heavy lifting. If somebody thinks it is, then they have never truly lifted heavy.And I can do probably 50 reps of half of my one rep max in most exercises. I don't call that "lifting heavy".
I did not say 50% of 1RM was heavy, I said it was sub-maximal and provided further detail indicating that it is more of an intensity that would be used for stability type of work which often will use a rep range of 12-20 reps for bilateral movements and 6-10 for unilateral movements.
Re-read the comments, nothing was negative towards you or indicating what you do is ineffective. thanks...0 -
kozykondition1 wrote: »@Sam_I_Am77:
People progress just fine lifting 2x15. I would rather do that than a single one rep max.
I believe you misunderstood the question. OP is basically asking what strength training is.
And I can do probably 50 reps of half of my one rep max in most exercises. I don't call that "lifting heavy".
sigh.
The "heavy" is not indiciative of the level of exertion.
let me just copy and paste myself- again
if it's to heavy you can't lift it- or you can barely lift it.
If you can do it 10 or more times- it's not really heavy. plain and simple. that has nothing to do with level of exertion and we aren't saying doing 30 reps of something IS or ISN'T difficult.
But it's not heavy. Period.
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Think of heavy as a rep range rather than a set number. Because to every person "heavy" is relative
0 reps = TO heavy
1 rep = one rep max- this is VERY heavy- borederline impossibly heavy
2-5 reps= heavy
5-10 moderately heavy
10-15 = not really heavy
15-20 = not heavy at all.
I've been lifting "not really heavy" and pretty successfully for the past few months.
I've recently progressed to "moderately heavy" and am flirting with "heavy"
Due to the fact that I work out at home, I think I'll flirt with "heavy".
I made my own gym and got most of my weights dirt cheap off kijiji.
The thing I've found is that as you approach "heavy" and "very heavy" FORM becomes painfully critical. You can get away with halfassed form when you're lifting "not really heavy", but you need to have that form down well if you are going to go full out "heavy".
Now that I'm flirting with Heavy... I'm seeing way better gains. I saw progress before, but I see more progress now.
You'll see progress with what you're doing... but the heavier you go, the more you'll see. IMHO.0 -
indeed. indeed.
There is nothing WRONG with doing the other things- you will still see results- but it'll be different. And again- not everyone's goals are the same. A marathoner probably won't care so much for that 1-3 range of reps. At all- but also probably doesn't need 15-20- he doesn't need so much muscular endurance- gets that enough while running.
But none of it's wrong or a judgement passing- just the reality- if you cant' pick it up- it's to heavy- and then all the way up to- if you can do 20 reps- it's not heavy at all.0 -
indeed. indeed.
There is nothing WRONG with doing the other things- you will still see results- but it'll be different. And again- not everyone's goals are the same. A marathoner probably won't care so much for that 1-3 range of reps. At all- but also probably doesn't need 15-20- he doesn't need so much muscular endurance- gets that enough while running.
But none of it's wrong or a judgement passing- just the reality- if you cant' pick it up- it's to heavy- and then all the way up to- if you can do 20 reps- it's not heavy at all.
for the record... I love your description of heavy. LOVE it.
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Think of heavy as a rep range rather than a set number. Because to every person "heavy" is relative
0 reps = TO heavy
1 rep = one rep max- this is VERY heavy- borederline impossibly heavy
2-5 reps= heavy
5-10 moderately heavy
10-15 = not really heavy
15-20 = not heavy at all.
Pretty nice listing. I would add that the movement needs to be done with correct form.0 -
yes- mostly....to an extent.Packerjohn wrote: »Think of heavy as a rep range rather than a set number. Because to every person "heavy" is relative
0 reps = TO heavy
1 rep = one rep max- this is VERY heavy- borederline impossibly heavy
2-5 reps= heavy
5-10 moderately heavy
10-15 = not really heavy
15-20 = not heavy at all.
Pretty nice listing. I would add that the movement needs to be done with correct form.
The trade off being at some point you gotta put a little English on it and do the damn thing. When you are testing a 1 rep max- then I don't expect to see perfect form- I expect to see frothing- spittal- straining and possible pee. it's not going to be pretty. Do you want it to be done in good form? without a doubt. But bailing on a lift because it's not in perfect form- eh. not so much.
Being said- that is not advice I would give for beginner lifters- but I don't expect to see beginner lifters legitimately testing their one rep maxes either. One of the reasons you train so much is so when you get to that stage- the form and technique isn't under question- what happens is what happens and you know what you're AIMING for on the lift- past that- the only thing that matters is the lift.0 -
All I know is if you wanna run cool, you've got to run on heavy heavy fuel.0
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PrizePopple wrote: »Uhm, negative. My belly is walking (and jiggling) proof that being in a deficit is not going to do diddly to help you "tone". That is actually how people end up as what is referred to as "skinny fat". Caloric deficit helps you lose weight, but you can also lose muscle in the process. As ndj said above people lift to help retain muscle mass, and that is what will help make you look toned - not losing muscle along with fat while in deficit.
You can't see definition in your abs because your BF% is not low enough. The only way to reduce your BF% is through caloric restriction. You don't need to "lift heavy" to retain muscle mass. You just need to use your muscles. Either way, on a caloric deficit you will loose both, but you will loose less muscle if you give your body a reason to keep them. Full body exercises will help to retain them. If you want bigger muscles then you need to eat more and progressively lift heavier things. That is why people go through periods of cutting and bulking. You cut weight to reduce BF% and keep up the exercise to retain as much muscle as possible. Then you eat more on a bulk and add more weight to your lifts to gain muscle. You will also put on a little fat as well during the bulk cycle.
Great advice! I don't have access to lots of weights, so knowing that body weight exercises are still good enough for retaining muscle is awesome.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Think of heavy as a rep range rather than a set number. Because to every person "heavy" is relative
0 reps = TO heavy
1 rep = one rep max- this is VERY heavy- borederline impossibly heavy
2-5 reps= heavy
5-10 moderately heavy
10-15 = not really heavy
15-20 = not heavy at all.
Pretty nice listing. I would add that the movement needs to be done with correct form.
is anyone advocating incorrect form?0 -
PrizePopple wrote: »
We're not even talking about bulking here, and I understand how that whole process works just from reading posts around here from reputable lifters.
I seriously doubt that doing something like 30 Day Shred is going to have the same impact on muscle retention as lifting would. Sure it helps, but it's not going to be nearly as effective. I'm by no means an expert on this, so I'm sure the others already on this thread could explain it much better and give personal experiences.
At the "skinny fat" phase, just eating at maintenance and doing some weighted burpies (10 - 20 lb dumbbells) will do a lot of good for muscle tone.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Think of heavy as a rep range rather than a set number. Because to every person "heavy" is relative
0 reps = TO heavy
1 rep = one rep max- this is VERY heavy- borederline impossibly heavy
2-5 reps= heavy
5-10 moderately heavy
10-15 = not really heavy
15-20 = not heavy at all.
Pretty nice listing. I would add that the movement needs to be done with correct form.
is anyone advocating incorrect form?
No. The op said they know nothing about lifting. My post was meant to add to the good description of weights/rep ranges that one should not be sacrificing form to be in a particular range. Now as pointed out above sometimes especially in a competitive situation good form is sacrificed. Probably not the best thing for most people. Would hope someone competing would be aware of the risk and rewards.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Think of heavy as a rep range rather than a set number. Because to every person "heavy" is relative
0 reps = TO heavy
1 rep = one rep max- this is VERY heavy- borederline impossibly heavy
2-5 reps= heavy
5-10 moderately heavy
10-15 = not really heavy
15-20 = not heavy at all.
Pretty nice listing. I would add that the movement needs to be done with correct form.
is anyone advocating incorrect form?
That one dude in the other thread... My head still hurts from that.0
This discussion has been closed.
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