Is this enough protein?
CoconuttyMummy
Posts: 685 Member
I'm currently 132 pounds; 5ft1" tall; female. I dont know my body-fat percentage (but i have a slightly chubby build with fat thighs and a flat belly, if that helps any!). I've lost 18 pounds so far and i have around 20 pounds more to lose.
My question is am i eating enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass whilst im in a calorie deficit? I dont want to be losing muscle instead of fat whilst im dieting.
At the moment my calories are set to 1200 a day (deficit of only 360 cals but MFP wont let me drop my cals any lower).
These are my macros (Keto):-
Carbs: 5% , 15g
Fat: 70% , 93g
Protein: 25% , 75g.
Is this enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass?
I thought you were meant to eat 0.8g protein per pound of your bodyweight, but a couple of people have told me im wrong, that you should only eat 0.8g protein per pound of LEAN muscle mass, not bodyweight. Then someone else told me i should be shooting for 1g per kg of bodyweight. And someone else said 0.6g per pound of bodyweight. Im soo confused! What the correct range to avoid catabolism?
My question is am i eating enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass whilst im in a calorie deficit? I dont want to be losing muscle instead of fat whilst im dieting.
At the moment my calories are set to 1200 a day (deficit of only 360 cals but MFP wont let me drop my cals any lower).
These are my macros (Keto):-
Carbs: 5% , 15g
Fat: 70% , 93g
Protein: 25% , 75g.
Is this enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass?
I thought you were meant to eat 0.8g protein per pound of your bodyweight, but a couple of people have told me im wrong, that you should only eat 0.8g protein per pound of LEAN muscle mass, not bodyweight. Then someone else told me i should be shooting for 1g per kg of bodyweight. And someone else said 0.6g per pound of bodyweight. Im soo confused! What the correct range to avoid catabolism?
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Replies
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It's probably a little low. The suggested range is usually 0.6-0.8 g per pound of body weight, which would put you somewhere between 79 and 105 g per day.
But more importantly, are you lifting weights? All the protein in the world won't help you maintain muscle mass while losing weight if you're not appropriately exercising/using those muscles.0 -
^Agreed with @ceoverturfCoconuttyMummy wrote: »My question is am i eating enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass whilst im in a calorie deficit? I dont want to be losing muscle instead of fat whilst im dieting. At the moment my calories are set to 1200 a day (deficit of only 360 cals but MFP wont let me drop my cals any lower).
Your maintenance calories are currently between 1550 and 1600 cals/day. Subtract 10-20% from this figure and you will gradually and safely lose weight, if consistent. Cutting too drastically (1200 cals/day) is counterproductive and may result in muscle loss.
You can adjust your calorie and macro goals with your own custom settings. However, current lags in the system do not make the update automatic; it make take an hour to update.
Remember, as your weight changes (say every 5 lbs) your calorie goal and macros will slightly alter. Calories and macros are based on bodyweight and body fat %.CoconuttyMummy wrote: »These are my macros (Keto):-
Carbs: 5% , 15g
Fat: 70% , 93g
Protein: 25% , 75g.
Strive for a bit more protein, a little less dietary fat, and try not to be so restrictive with your carbs. Whole food carbs (not processed/refined) are vitamin, mineral, and fiber rich. All good things.CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Is this enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass?
I thought you were meant to eat 0.8g protein per pound of your bodyweight, but a couple of people have told me im wrong, that you should only eat 0.8g protein per pound of LEAN muscle mass, not bodyweight. Then someone else told me i should be shooting for 1g per kg of bodyweight. And someone else said 0.6g per pound of bodyweight. Im soo confused! What the correct range to avoid catabolism?
The correct range to support muscle synthesis, backed by substantial scientific research, is 0.60-0.80 grams protein per 1 lb. bodyweight. I can post 20+ studies to support this claim if anyone wishes to say otherwise.0 -
Thankyou both so much for your input. So i WAS right! I had it set to 0.8g per pound and everyone was like woah, thats too high, its meant to be 0.8g per pound of LEAN muscle mass. *slaps head*. Argghhh! I wish people would get their facts straight before they advise people wrongly.
Oh well, thanks again for verifying this.0 -
Many of the studies are on bodybuilders who are of course much closer to lean body mass than someone like me who is still working to shed excess fat. While not all studies specify LBM, some do. Those that don't, infer it from the type of subject being observed
.6 - .8 grams protein per pound of LBM is what I draw from those same studies.0 -
0.60 - 0.80 grams protein per pound of bodyweight typically equals (if not comes extremely closely to) 1.0 - 1.2 grams protein per pound of LBM. Yes, some studies use LBM, but they yield the same results as the studies that use bodyweight.
The peer-reviewed studies are mostly done on a varied mix of endurance and strength athletes who are focused on new muscle synthesis. Good luck testing couch potatoes when it comes to new muscle synthesis.CoconuttyMummy wrote: »So i WAS right! I had it set to 0.8g per pound and everyone was like woah, thats too high
0.80 grams protein per pound of bodyweight is the very high end of intake that might optimize muscle development/retention, with most research showing much lower intake is sufficient to optimize such outcomes, even in professional bodybuilders.
One of the more thorough studies showed that after 0.80 g/lb of bodyweight, there is no evidence of increased muscle protein synthesis rate for endurance or strength athletes. Simply put, consuming more protein will not promote further muscle synthesis. However, if your goal is to gain mass, then consuming more calories (regardless of what macro those calories are coming from) is a wise choice.0 -
Many of the studies are on bodybuilders who are of course much closer to lean body mass than someone like me who is still working to shed excess fat. While not all studies specify LBM, some do. Those that don't, infer it from the type of subject being observed
.6 - .8 grams protein per pound of LBM is what I draw from those same studies.
Correct
132 lbs. X .6 = 79g
You're close. You could shoot for a couple more grams of protein. In fact, I think @sixxpoint has great dietary advice for you in the post above. I'd follow it if I were you.
And as the other poster above said, if you're not lifting, it's not doing you any good anyway. You need to lift heavy in order to maintain the muscle tissue.
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Put aside the weight vs LBM discussion, the studies make it clear that most fitness buffs and weight loss program followers here (and elsewhere) are over consuming protein.
This won't hurt them, and can be tasty, but does tend to make ones daily diet more expensive, or force people to turn to protein supplements unnecessarily.
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »I'm currently 132 pounds; 5ft1" tall; female. I dont know my body-fat percentage (but i have a slightly chubby build with fat thighs and a flat belly, if that helps any!). I've lost 18 pounds so far and i have around 20 pounds more to lose.
My question is am i eating enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass whilst im in a calorie deficit? I dont want to be losing muscle instead of fat whilst im dieting.
At the moment my calories are set to 1200 a day (deficit of only 360 cals but MFP wont let me drop my cals any lower).
These are my macros (Keto):-
Carbs: 5% , 15g
Fat: 70% , 93g
Protein: 25% , 75g.
Is this enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass?
I thought you were meant to eat 0.8g protein per pound of your bodyweight, but a couple of people have told me im wrong, that you should only eat 0.8g protein per pound of LEAN muscle mass, not bodyweight. Then someone else told me i should be shooting for 1g per kg of bodyweight. And someone else said 0.6g per pound of bodyweight. Im soo confused! What the correct range to avoid catabolism?
The minimum recommendation is about 50 grams for the average woman:
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
Above this, you are in general fine. This does not mean that you cannot go much higher.
0.4 - 0.6 grams per lb is the recommendation for an active adult.
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/caryn/protein.html
So it sounds like you are doing fine. More will not hurt, assuming their are no dietary restrictions for health issues.0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »I'm currently 132 pounds; 5ft1" tall; female. I dont know my body-fat percentage (but i have a slightly chubby build with fat thighs and a flat belly, if that helps any!). I've lost 18 pounds so far and i have around 20 pounds more to lose.
My question is am i eating enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass whilst im in a calorie deficit? I dont want to be losing muscle instead of fat whilst im dieting.
At the moment my calories are set to 1200 a day (deficit of only 360 cals but MFP wont let me drop my cals any lower).
These are my macros (Keto):-
Carbs: 5% , 15g
Fat: 70% , 93g
Protein: 25% , 75g.
Is this enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass?
I thought you were meant to eat 0.8g protein per pound of your bodyweight, but a couple of people have told me im wrong, that you should only eat 0.8g protein per pound of LEAN muscle mass, not bodyweight. Then someone else told me i should be shooting for 1g per kg of bodyweight. And someone else said 0.6g per pound of bodyweight. Im soo confused! What the correct range to avoid catabolism?
The minimum recommendation is about 50 grams for the average woman:
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
Above this, you are in general fine. This does not mean that you cannot go much higher.
0.4 - 0.6 grams per lb is the recommendation for an active adult.
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/caryn/protein.html
So it sounds like you are doing fine. More will not hurt, assuming their are no dietary restrictions for health issues.
Lower minimums like this are for sedentary individuals. And some of the recommendations in those sources are based on outdated information, much like how the government still tells us that 400 IU of Vitamin D3 is 100% of the recommended daily value.0 -
For a keto diet one recommendation (Phinney) is 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per kg ideal body weight, so 83 - 110 g/day in your case.
Protein 2.0 said " The RDA for protein, which is based primarily on
nitrogen balance studies, is 0.8 g/kg body weight per day for
adults aged 19 y and is established from the EAR for protein
(0.66 g/kg body weight per day) plus a safety variance of .20%"
the units always go to the wall in these discussions ;-)
Other random numbers - EFSA says 75 g is sufficient protein for obese people on VLCDs.
"Emerging science" says about 30 grams a meal gives a positive effect on muscle building.
If the keto is important in itself you may find more protein impairs it, hence the "ketogenic ratio" approaches used like grams fat > (grams protein + grams carbs).0 -
Put aside the weight vs LBM discussion, the studies make it clear that most fitness buffs and weight loss program followers here (and elsewhere) are over consuming protein.
This won't hurt them, and can be tasty, but does tend to make ones daily diet more expensive, or force people to turn to protein supplements unnecessarily.
What studies would those be?
@sixxpoint has posted his list of 20+ studies claiming the above recommendations are accurate multiple times. Vague references to "the studies" that say otherwise so far isn't standing up to his claims.0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »I'm currently 132 pounds; 5ft1" tall; female. I dont know my body-fat percentage (but i have a slightly chubby build with fat thighs and a flat belly, if that helps any!). I've lost 18 pounds so far and i have around 20 pounds more to lose.
My question is am i eating enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass whilst im in a calorie deficit? I dont want to be losing muscle instead of fat whilst im dieting.
At the moment my calories are set to 1200 a day (deficit of only 360 cals but MFP wont let me drop my cals any lower).
These are my macros (Keto):-
Carbs: 5% , 15g
Fat: 70% , 93g
Protein: 25% , 75g.
Is this enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass?
I thought you were meant to eat 0.8g protein per pound of your bodyweight, but a couple of people have told me im wrong, that you should only eat 0.8g protein per pound of LEAN muscle mass, not bodyweight. Then someone else told me i should be shooting for 1g per kg of bodyweight. And someone else said 0.6g per pound of bodyweight. Im soo confused! What the correct range to avoid catabolism?
This is fine, may actually be a little high considering your going Keto. Keto diets should be within the 20-25% range.0 -
Just check this out when you have the time. Skip to about half way when they discus Keto dieting as he discusses macro ratios.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u40zJA3RqM8 0 -
Deleted comment, don't know why it posted twice
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I'm a low-carber, less than 10% carbs, so keto range, but I'm the odd one out and eat more protein. I did keto for about 9 mo at the recommended 20-25% protein. Now, I aim for 120-130g per day. Because weights. And I just plain feel better. That puts me between 30 and 35% protein depending.
Keto isn't a magic formula. I had to tweak mine as I approached my weight goal and became more active.0 -
baconslave wrote: »I'm a low-carber, less than 10% carbs, so keto range, but I'm the odd one out and eat more protein. I did keto for about 9 mo at the recommended 20-25% protein. Now, I aim for 120-130g per day. Because weights. And I just plain feel better. That puts me between 30 and 35% protein depending.
Keto isn't a magic formula. I had to tweak mine as I approached my weight goal and became more active.
Curious question; I've often seen it said that you can't do high protein with keto because protein is insulinogenic. Have you confirmed your keto status (I think people use strips), and have you had any issues with the higher protein level?0 -
baconslave wrote: »I'm a low-carber, less than 10% carbs, so keto range, but I'm the odd one out and eat more protein. I did keto for about 9 mo at the recommended 20-25% protein. Now, I aim for 120-130g per day. Because weights. And I just plain feel better. That puts me between 30 and 35% protein depending.
Keto isn't a magic formula. I had to tweak mine as I approached my weight goal and became more active.
Too much protein will take you out of ketosis... the range is 20-25%... proteins can be converted to glucose.. go to about the 28th minute in the the video..0 -
BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Just check this out when you have the time. Skip to about half way when they discus Keto dieting as he discusses macro ratios.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u40zJA3RqM8
This was really interesting. Thanks.
And thanks to everyone for your input.
I'll keep my protein 20-25% max and my carbs 5% or below, fats 70-75% and see where i go. Hopefully i will detect some stronger ketones soon as ive only been measuring trace up til now (maybe its b/c my protein was too high as mentioned).0 -
baconslave wrote: »I'm a low-carber, less than 10% carbs, so keto range, but I'm the odd one out and eat more protein. I did keto for about 9 mo at the recommended 20-25% protein. Now, I aim for 120-130g per day. Because weights. And I just plain feel better. That puts me between 30 and 35% protein depending.
Keto isn't a magic formula. I had to tweak mine as I approached my weight goal and became more active.
Curious question; I've often seen it said that you can't do high protein with keto because protein is insulinogenic. Have you confirmed your keto status (I think people use strips), and have you had any issues with the higher protein level?
No. I don't bother with strips. Some people do, but I'm just not interested. Well, that isn't true. I just don't want to spend the money. I've eaten sub-40g of carbs for over a year. I gauge my health and performance. And I'm happy with them now. Not at all scientific. Sorry. I have read, that really gluconeogenesis is really more demand-driven. I'll have to pin that source down. I can't remember off the top of my head. I tried all the "more fat" suggestions from the keto community, and when that failed me, I started reading up on protein, then made the switch.
The only change I've noticed with increasing the protein is having more energy. Everything else had stayed the same. Fat is still high, I would consider my protein more "adequate protein" than "high." I could eat more protein, and I have eaten less, which unfortunately over-time decreased my overall satiety and available energy...) I think this small jump in protein consumption has helped as I was feeling a little more fatigued than I should.
Which really only goes to show that there isn't only one way to eat. I thought normal keto was it for me, but over time found slightly higher protein serves my aims better. And that makes me a bit of the weirdo in the keto-community. But I don't care so much about that.
Sorry I can't give you more specifics.
Maybe someone else around has actual data.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »Put aside the weight vs LBM discussion, the studies make it clear that most fitness buffs and weight loss program followers here (and elsewhere) are over consuming protein.
This won't hurt them, and can be tasty, but does tend to make ones daily diet more expensive, or force people to turn to protein supplements unnecessarily.
What studies would those be?
@sixxpoint has posted his list of 20+ studies claiming the above recommendations are accurate multiple times. Vague references to "the studies" that say otherwise so far isn't standing up to his claims.
Those would be the very same studies showing elite bodybuilders and endurance athletes doing well on .6 to .8 grams. @sixxpoint isn't the only one to have read up.
You seem to be missing my point. Popular advice here typically recommends a lot more protein, backed by folklore and nothing else.
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ceoverturf wrote: »Put aside the weight vs LBM discussion, the studies make it clear that most fitness buffs and weight loss program followers here (and elsewhere) are over consuming protein.
This won't hurt them, and can be tasty, but does tend to make ones daily diet more expensive, or force people to turn to protein supplements unnecessarily.
What studies would those be?
@sixxpoint has posted his list of 20+ studies claiming the above recommendations are accurate multiple times. Vague references to "the studies" that say otherwise so far isn't standing up to his claims.
Those would be the very same studies showing elite bodybuilders and endurance athletes doing well on .6 to .8 grams. @sixpoint isn't the only one to have read up.
Popular advice here typically recommends a lot more protein, backed by folklore and nothing else.
My apologies, I thought you were claiming the 0.6 to 0.8 recommendation was too high. I misinterpreted your post.
I agree those who advocate significantly more than that are most likely overconsuming.0 -
baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »I'm a low-carber, less than 10% carbs, so keto range, but I'm the odd one out and eat more protein. I did keto for about 9 mo at the recommended 20-25% protein. Now, I aim for 120-130g per day. Because weights. And I just plain feel better. That puts me between 30 and 35% protein depending.
Keto isn't a magic formula. I had to tweak mine as I approached my weight goal and became more active.
Curious question; I've often seen it said that you can't do high protein with keto because protein is insulinogenic. Have you confirmed your keto status (I think people use strips), and have you had any issues with the higher protein level?
No. I don't bother with strips. Some people do, but I'm just not interested. Well, that isn't true. I just don't want to spend the money. I've eaten sub-40g of carbs for over a year. I gauge my health and performance. And I'm happy with them now. Not at all scientific. Sorry. I have read, that really gluconeogenesis is really more demand-driven. I'll have to pin that source down. I can't remember off the top of my head. I tried all the "more fat" suggestions from the keto community, and when that failed me, I started reading up on protein, then made the switch.
The only change I've noticed with increasing the protein is having more energy. Everything else had stayed the same. Fat is still high, I would consider my protein more "adequate protein" than "high." I could eat more protein, and I have eaten less, which unfortunately over-time decreased my overall satiety and available energy...) I think this small jump in protein consumption has helped as I was feeling a little more fatigued than I should.
Which really only goes to show that there isn't only one way to eat. I thought normal keto was it for me, but over time found slightly higher protein serves my aims better. And that makes me a bit of the weirdo in the keto-community. But I don't care so much about that.
Sorry I can't give you more specifics.
Maybe someone else around has actual data.
Eh, that basically answers the question really. Nice to see you kept your options open to what works for you as opposed to following "the rules". Everyone seems so militant and not open to things that may work better. Never really understood the "one true way" mentality.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »I agree those who advocate significantly more than that are most likely overconsuming.
No worries!
Maybe the big protein promoters are BBQ sales people or butchers?
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Protein is more important in calorie deficit to preserve muscle. I look at protein like insurance. If you don't mind eating more, do it.
I swear I've seen other studies but here's one on young male athletes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027
CONCLUSIONS:
These results indicate that approximately 2.3 g x kg(-1) or approximately 35% protein was significantly superior to approximately 1.0 g x kg(-1) or approximately 15% energy protein for maintenance of lean body mass in young healthy athletes during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss.
^That's about 1 gram per pound total body weight.
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »I'm currently 132 pounds; 5ft1" tall; female. I dont know my body-fat percentage (but i have a slightly chubby build with fat thighs and a flat belly, if that helps any!). I've lost 18 pounds so far and i have around 20 pounds more to lose.
My question is am i eating enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass whilst im in a calorie deficit? I dont want to be losing muscle instead of fat whilst im dieting.
At the moment my calories are set to 1200 a day (deficit of only 360 cals but MFP wont let me drop my cals any lower).
These are my macros (Keto):-
Carbs: 5% , 15g
Fat: 70% , 93g
Protein: 25% , 75g.
Is this enough protein to maintain lean muscle mass?
I thought you were meant to eat 0.8g protein per pound of your bodyweight, but a couple of people have told me im wrong, that you should only eat 0.8g protein per pound of LEAN muscle mass, not bodyweight. Then someone else told me i should be shooting for 1g per kg of bodyweight. And someone else said 0.6g per pound of bodyweight. Im soo confused! What the correct range to avoid catabolism?
I asked a friend once and he said "Nope!" immediately lol Then I said another and he was like "Nope!" I asked why and he was like "You can never have too much" lol I never checked into it but I just get what I can when I can, if your gut feeling is to have some more, have some more!.0 -
_benjammin wrote: »Protein is more important in calorie deficit to preserve muscle. I look at protein like insurance. If you don't mind eating more, do it.
I swear I've seen other studies but here's one on young male athletes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027
Question: How many of us are young male athletes?
Your protein needs change as you age. What might be useful for a 16, 18 or 20 year old is not going to be the same for a 30, 40, or 50 year old.
The devil is in the details.0 -
BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Just check this out when you have the time. Skip to about half way when they discus Keto dieting as he discusses macro ratios.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u40zJA3RqM8
This was really interesting. Thanks.
And thanks to everyone for your input.
I'll keep my protein 20-25% max and my carbs 5% or below, fats 70-75% and see where i go. Hopefully i will detect some stronger ketones soon as ive only been measuring trace up til now (maybe its b/c my protein was too high as mentioned).0 -
Personally I'd swap some fat cal's for some proteins.. Then again, personally I wouldn't waste my time with something that doesn't let me eat carbs0
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_benjammin wrote: »Protein is more important in calorie deficit to preserve muscle. I look at protein like insurance. If you don't mind eating more, do it.
I swear I've seen other studies but here's one on young male athletes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027
CONCLUSIONS:
These results indicate that approximately 2.3 g x kg(-1) or approximately 35% protein was significantly superior to approximately 1.0 g x kg(-1) or approximately 15% energy protein for maintenance of lean body mass in young healthy athletes during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss.
^That's about 1 gram per pound total body weight.
This doesn't apply to the keto diet.
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