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keto low carb refeed question
AlexEtheridge1996
Posts: 65 Member
Are high carb refeeds stricly necessary, or are other methods more productive towards fat loss?
Sure the refeed of glycogen will help you perform higher intensity exercises for the week, but wouldn't this limit fat loss because body will have to get back into ketosis.
Theres no doubt people will be able to perform high intensity training better, but wont it take a few days to get back into ketosis and during this time the body will use the stored glycogen as energy, therefore this increased performance ability is just being used to deplete the glycogen.
So, has anyone exeprienced "refeeding" on low carb, but higher calories than usual?
Sure the refeed of glycogen will help you perform higher intensity exercises for the week, but wouldn't this limit fat loss because body will have to get back into ketosis.
Theres no doubt people will be able to perform high intensity training better, but wont it take a few days to get back into ketosis and during this time the body will use the stored glycogen as energy, therefore this increased performance ability is just being used to deplete the glycogen.
So, has anyone exeprienced "refeeding" on low carb, but higher calories than usual?
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Replies
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Ketosis is a by-product of not having enough carbs in the body. The weightloss that is occurring is from reduced calories (period). Keto style diets are just protocols of eating to get you into that calorie deficit as you negate certain food groups, eat more fat (which is highly satiating)...so you will typically be in a deficit without realizing it for a while, thus losing weight. The refeed, like you mentioned, would only replenish already low glycogen stores, give you a boost in gym performance for a bit, and offer you a small psychological break to eat something you might have been craving. One day; however, would not make a difference in my opinion in regards to aided fat loss. Lyle McDonald has some great content about Leptin and refeed durations to get fatloss moving again, etc.... if you want to research more.0
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Thank you for your reply, and i have researched about leptin and benefits of high carb refeeds already
I currently track my low carb eating, and was purely interested in ways to make refeeds more effective(done 1 refeed with high carbs and it took me quite a few days to get back into ketosis). If a huge carb up was done, glycogen stores would become full. However wouldnt this then reduce the benefits of the low carb keto diet until stores are once again depleted. Thus why i was wondering whether a low carb refeed has been done that exceeds maintence but ensures one stays in ketosis for the benefit of fast loss and using fat primarily as a source of fuel. Because if high carb isnt necessary, one could be much more productive always staying in ketosis, rather than waiting to get back into it after a hugh carb refeed.0 -
I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)0
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Talk us through what you expect the "refeed" (= overeating spell) to achieve ? and how ? I agree about adding fat / protein not carbs.0
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Talk us through what you expect the "refeed" (= overeating spell) to achieve ? and how ? I agree about adding fat / protein not carbs.
The "refeed" would be more of a refeed of calories, rather than carbs. We all know that maintaing a deficit for a long time is not great for the metabolism and hormones etc0 -
AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.
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i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
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There is a keto group on mfp may have more info0
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?0 -
AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?0 -
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
If one has low carbs for a sustained period, the body begins to learn to run on fat not dietary carbs. One study has actually showed that a high fat low carb surplus/bulk diet, gained significantly less fat than a low fat high carb equalivant calorie intake.this may be due to carbs not being necessary, and fats are better utilised by the body
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
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IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles0 -
it wasnt meant to be, but yeah apparently low carb can be muscle sparing..AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
Wow. That seems like a pretty aggressive response when someone asked you for the research the stuff you were just spouting. And that's from a low carber.
I have heard things that being low carb can help reduce the amount of lean muscle lost since the body is in the fat burning state, but I haven't done a search to see if that is a legit claim. And I also heard that confusing your body is important to not go into starvation mode and now I know that's a bunch of bunk. There are a lot of theories out there that turn into being nothing more than wishes, not facts.
iifym is meant to be clean eating, with exceptions for snacks/foods that do fit your macros. Some people take it to seriously and believe its optimally helping them towards a goal by making up their calories from anything.
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AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
if one is in a deficit, they will (or should) lose weight as they're not eating enough to maintain their weight. However i think the difference is on a ketogenic diet is that because there are no carbs/glycogen, and the body adaps to burning fat efficiency (not glycogen), therefore the deficit on a keto diet goes solely towards burning fat.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
So with the keto diet, does your body use your fat intake (because you ramp it up), or does it use bodyfat? I've never truly understood that concept.
the body becomes fat adapted; it starts to burn fat as a fuel at rest and during exercise. Where as one on a high carb diet would mainly burn glycogen, and rarely tap into fat storage
And how does a caloric deficit play into that then, if carbs are burned instead of fat?
a lot of people stall on high carb low fat diets. What do they then do? Lower and lower their intake..
But you're meant to consume <60g carbs on a ketogenic diet, right? So if I didn't bother counting calories on a ketogenic diet and I ate abundantly, I would lose weight because the body is fat adapted?
No, you still need a deficit. Thats where the fat/muscle or weight loss occurs.
Then wouldn't that mean with a ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit wouldn't yield any larger fat loss than a non ketogenic diet and a caloric deficit?
You know it all boils down to calories, not low carbing or high carbing.
I just explained how one who is fat adapted will burn more fat in a deficit than someone who has a high card diet. Once the body uses energy from food, it looks for other sources. Fat adapted individuals use fat, where as other would not. Also weight loss is not always fat loss
Any studies to back that up? I'm intrigued.
can you please do your own research and decide whether you agree? Continue to drink your coke and have sugary and carby krave for breakfast, but if you think iifym is as good as a clean/balanced diet youre wrong. Also, research about carb blood sugar spike and the effect of insulin (promotes fat storage)
No need to get hostile.
Sorry but you have claimed to of tried a keto diet, yet you think its 60g and under carbs(under 30 optimal) and you dont understand it's principles
Then you'd know the carbohydrate range varies from 20-100g of carbs as slipping into a state of ketosis is different for everybody. And yes, I do understand it's principles.
You lower your carbohydrate intake to a level where you are in ketosis, i.e 60g carbohydrates.
You have a moderate protein intake to prevent yourself from slipping into a state of gluconeogenesis (I'm still reading up on this, but I reckon it takes a lot of protein for this to happen).
You increase your fat intake, as this is supposedly what is used for fuel instead of carbohydrates as well as to keep yourself satiated. But then, you weren't clear on whether body fat or dietary fat was used for fuel when you become 'fat adapted'. A0 -
AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
I have body fat scales, i think i know what has worked better. It depends what you call a balanced diet, but eating 'clean' yet having high carbs was not as successful as doing keto, for body fat specifically.IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »
i did specify i was not referring to weight loss. Have you tried low carb/ketogenic diet?IsaackGMOON wrote: »AlexEtheridge1996 wrote: »I have personally experienced greater fat loss(not referring to weight loss) during ketosis on a low carb diet, than on a high carb diet with a larger deficit. Hence why im wondering whether it would be optimal to stay in ketosis, and refeed low carbs (increase calories and fat, rather than calories and carbs)
If you're just looking at the scale, that will most definitely water weight coming off. Low carb diets do that.
Going low carb doesn't make you lose any more weight than eating a balanced diet whilst counting calories...
Yes, I have tried a ketogenic diet in the past. I didn't particularly like it because it restricted foods that I liked to eat.
If you're eating at the same caloric deficit on a balanced diet and a low carb diet, there isn't any reason for any extra fat loss on the low carb. Correct?
it depends how long you did it for, how low you had carbs and whether you actually became fat adapted.
Balanced diet is very vague, but i, and many others have experienced greater fat loss on a low carb (under 30g) ketogenic diet.
i would personally say incorrect. You cant argue with a body basically running on fat as a constant energy source (fully adapted). If someone consumes say 200g of carbs a day, one would first use the carbs consumed as energy, and then look for others sources (glycogen, fat, muscle etc)
I would argue that there is no such thing as adapting to using fat as an energy source. Your body uses whatever energy you provide it for fuel, and then goes into catabolism only if there is a caloric deficit, unless you don't agree with CICO theory. Bodyfat scales are notoriously inaccurate, especially if you are manipulating water retention by going into keto. I have been in keto (<25 g C/day) for extended periods of time, as well as tried several flavors of cyclical ketogenic diets. Coming in and out of keto produces a large change of glycogen levels, and therefore large changes in water retention. After adjusting for water weight loss, my rate of body fat loss on a moderate diet was the same as my rate of body fat loss on keto, because I used the same CICO level on both diets.
There are 3 benefits to a refeed or overfeed: psychological break from sustained deficit, leptin increase, and glycogen refill. The psychological break can come from enjoying any food you want, so overfeeding on any macro is ok. The leptin increase and glycogen refill can only come from overfeeding carbs. Fats and Protein don't have the same effect. There are some studies out there showing this, but I don't have the time to search for them now. Furthermore, your leptin levels won't be very low until you get down to about 12% bodyfat, and only stay elevated for a short time after a refeed. If you are looking to fix metabolic adaptation, it is going to take more than that to raise your BMR, and you would need to reverse diet into maintenance for a week or 2.0 -
I've been eating keto for coming up on three years and have lost about 115lbs. Over this time I've found two ways of making the scale drop when it's been slow moving. One is after having a very large, high calorie meal (1800) even after consuming about 600 calories during the day which puts me over my normal calories by about 1000. It usually involves a large rib-eye steak with gorgonzola butter and some red wine. Another way has been eating very high fat (fat fasts work too) for most of the day and then consuming my daily protein with dinner.
On a side note though fat cells suck in water when they lose the fat because they want to remain the same size. It can take awhile before they let go of the water and whoosh, you're a couple pounds lighter. So maybe eating mostly fat during the day makes my body let go of the water.0 -
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