Organic...
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Sure.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »FYI, buying local might taste better / be fresher, but it is probably WORSE for the environment.
Far more energy goes into the actual growing of crops than does transportation, so if crops are grown where it is ideal - like if Idaho for potatoes, or Midwest for corn - they will use so much less inputs in growing, it probably outweighs the environmental cost of transporting it across the country.
Can you explain further?
Estimates are that to produce food, 85% of the energy used is growing it, and 15% is shipping it.
So now if you buy a local grown potato that takes 15% more energy to grow in your climate (like you don't live in the ideal Idaho), and you save 50% on transportation energy, what you've ended up with is 85%*1.15+15%*.5 = 105.25% energy used (5.25% more) in comparison to growing it in the ideal environment.
That sounds like a lot of if's and generalizations. What are your sources? Is the amount of energy the same for small local farms as it is for large commerical farms. Is it the same in all areas? For all food?
I mean, I don't live in an area known for pototoes (commercially) but they grow well here. I can grow potatoes by doing nothing other than burying a few potatoes from last years harvest.
There's a huge difference between you can pop in a good and get it to grow and it is the most economically efficient crop to grow in your area.
One of the biggest proofs is just in the price difference. If a crop can cost less when shipped from far away than grown locally, how much chance is there that it required more input to grow on top of the transit costs?
http://freakonomics.com/2011/11/14/the-inefficiency-of-local-food/
I'm not sure why in a local versus shipped discussion the idea of a small farm versus a large farm is terribly germane, it seems more like trying to just muddy the discussion.
In my area all local produce is from small farms, so while it might not seem germane to the point you are trying to make, it is germane to the subject. There are many areas where buying locally means supporting small farms, not large. Whether it's germane to this thread is arguable, since local doesn't mean organic.0 -
I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.0 -
DogRiverDude wrote: »This past weekend my brother-in-law raised an excellent point regarding the production of organic food... something I had never considered. In summary he stated...
"We live in a world that has people starving to death; generally speaking there's not enough land to produce the volume of food needed to feed the population. The production of Organic Food requires more land area to yield the same volume of NON-organic food therefore, one of two things (or combination thereof) must occur each time a consumer chooses 'Organic':
1) another person in our world goes hungry, and/or
2) additional land must be cleared to produce more organic food."
His logic is sound but sadly it's not something that "us" North Americans (or Europeans) consider when we're filling our carts at the grocery store.
And this is why it's good that we have mass produced food. Doesn't mean I'm going buy it as my chief source though. I'm lucky enough not to need to, so I'll leave more for the folks that need it.0 -
I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.0 -
My garden is all grown from organic seeds and I buy organic milk and eggs but it gets pricey to buy everything organic.
organic milk is the biggest rip off ever. it's almost identical nutritionally, and it's actually boiled at a higher temperature to help in last longer in your fridge. you know who should buy organic milk? bachelors that live alone and don't drink a whole lot of milk.0 -
Capt_Apollo wrote: »My garden is all grown from organic seeds and I buy organic milk and eggs but it gets pricey to buy everything organic.
organic milk is the biggest rip off ever. it's almost identical nutritionally, and it's actually boiled at a higher temperature to help in last longer in your fridge. you know who should buy organic milk? bachelors that live alone and don't drink a whole lot of milk.
lol.
ZOMG but the hormones! And the antibiotics! /sarcasm0 -
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hollydubs85 wrote: »I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.0 -
Capt_Apollo wrote: »My garden is all grown from organic seeds and I buy organic milk and eggs but it gets pricey to buy everything organic.
organic milk is the biggest rip off ever. it's almost identical nutritionally, and it's actually boiled at a higher temperature to help in last longer in your fridge. you know who should buy organic milk? bachelors that live alone and don't drink a whole lot of milk.
<-- this guy lol. keep that *kitten* in the fridge for a month no worries0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.
i wonder how long non-organic food would last getting from a place like say, georgia peaches to northern michigan? because i swear the organic food i've bought doesn't seem to make it from the walk to my house.0 -
DogRiverDude wrote: »This past weekend my brother-in-law raised an excellent point regarding the production of organic food... something I had never considered. In summary he stated...
"We live in a world that has people starving to death; generally speaking there's not enough land to produce the volume of food needed to feed the population. The production of Organic Food requires more land area to yield the same volume of NON-organic food therefore, one of two things (or combination thereof) must occur each time a consumer chooses 'Organic':
1) another person in our world goes hungry, and/or
2) additional land must be cleared to produce more organic food."
His logic is sound but sadly it's not something that "us" North Americans (or Europeans) consider when we're filling our carts at the grocery store.
"The researchers pointed out that the available studies comparing farming methods were often biased in favor of conventional agriculture, so this estimate of the yield gap is likely overestimated."
newscenter.berkeley.edu/2014/12/09/organic-conventional-farming-yield-gap/
"the world already produces 22 trillion calories annually via agriculture, enough to provide more than 3,000 calories to every person on the planet. The food problem is one of distribution and waste—whether the latter is food spoilage during harvest, in storage or even after purchase. According to the Grocery Manufacturers Association, in the U.S. alone, 215 meals per person go to waste annually."
scientificamerican.com/article/organic-farming-yields-and-feeding-the-world-under-climate-change/
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.
Well, from a regulatory perspective, it can't exactly be certified USDA organic unless it was grown in the United States.
Even a lot of produce coming to Texas (where I live) from other states cannot be grown organic simply because a lot of the regulatory quarantines for pests and diseases. A lot of the commercially-produced organics we get from Florida are treated with radiation, and that brings up a whole other debate.0 -
It's insignificant nutritionally and costs a LOT more. And when you see the MASSIVE farms either are grown on, does it REALLY matter that much?
In America it mostly comes from the same water lacking, smog filled valley in California anyway.
Hey. No hating on Fresno unless you're from here.
That being said, most of my produce is local because I do live in the Central Valley. We started growing our own stuff for the heck of it and it's been fun!
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Fact: You still have pesticides with organic food.
https://ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html
Fact: There is very little investigation by the government for compliance when it comes to the rules for using the USDA Organic label...and enforcement from the government for violations is minimal.
Report Finds Lax USDA Organic Oversight
I refuse to pay a ridiculous amount of money for food that bears the USDA Organic Certified Seal when we have no idea if it really is 100% organic or not.
That said, it is a good thing to buy locally produced produce in season and support your local farmers, organic or not.
We seem to be on the same page. I definitely support my local farmers, I even pick my own produce at a farm only 25 miles away. However a friend of mine is the deputy agricultural inspector for the county I live in, in California, and he said that organic produce, depending on the crop, uses more pesticides and herbicides than not. Very frustrating to me. He also said that only true way to know your foods are free of such things is to grow your own. So I did, I plant whatever is in season, enough for my family and a little extra to host dinners. It's unfair to charge so much more for foods to carry a label with little meaning.
I intend to build a green house someday, I actually love gardening, who knew.0 -
Capt_Apollo wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.
i wonder how long non-organic food would last getting from a place like say, georgia peaches to northern michigan? because i swear the organic food i've bought doesn't seem to make it from the walk to my house.
Interesting, and odd. I keep organic produce in my root cellar for months. Not everything, naturally, but winter squash and root vegetables. I haven't noticed other things going bad faster than non-organic store bought. Except maybe for leafy greens if not stored properly and quickly.0 -
hollydubs85 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.
Well, from a regulatory perspective, it can't exactly be certified USDA organic unless it was grown in the United States.
Even a lot of produce coming to Texas (where I live) from other states cannot be grown organic simply because a lot of the regulatory quarantines for pests and diseases. A lot of the commercially-produced organics we get from Florida are treated with radiation, and that brings up a whole other debate.
Oh, I don't think most people mean "in the US" when they say buy local. I think they mean from farms in their local area. Like from a Farmer's Market or roadside stand, or direct from the farm or co-op, or perhaps a local grocer that carries local produce. Or a local meat processor for meat.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.
Well, from a regulatory perspective, it can't exactly be certified USDA organic unless it was grown in the United States.
Even a lot of produce coming to Texas (where I live) from other states cannot be grown organic simply because a lot of the regulatory quarantines for pests and diseases. A lot of the commercially-produced organics we get from Florida are treated with radiation, and that brings up a whole other debate.
Oh, I don't think most people mean "in the US" when they say buy local. I think they mean from farms in their local area. Like from a Farmer's Market or roadside stand, or direct from the farm or co-op, or perhaps a local grocer that carries local produce. Or a local meat processor for meat.
Understood, but like I said, unless you live in California or Florida, that can be pretty limiting if an individual is wanting to ONLY eat organic produce.0 -
Except now it is a straw man of what I originally said (hence germane - to the discussion not necessarily the thread). I said worse of the environment, but now it simply about post hoc justify local. If you buy local for ethical / economic reasons, go for it. Just don't kid yourself that it is saving the planet.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Sure.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »FYI, buying local might taste better / be fresher, but it is probably WORSE for the environment.
Far more energy goes into the actual growing of crops than does transportation, so if crops are grown where it is ideal - like if Idaho for potatoes, or Midwest for corn - they will use so much less inputs in growing, it probably outweighs the environmental cost of transporting it across the country.
Can you explain further?
Estimates are that to produce food, 85% of the energy used is growing it, and 15% is shipping it.
So now if you buy a local grown potato that takes 15% more energy to grow in your climate (like you don't live in the ideal Idaho), and you save 50% on transportation energy, what you've ended up with is 85%*1.15+15%*.5 = 105.25% energy used (5.25% more) in comparison to growing it in the ideal environment.
That sounds like a lot of if's and generalizations. What are your sources? Is the amount of energy the same for small local farms as it is for large commerical farms. Is it the same in all areas? For all food?
I mean, I don't live in an area known for pototoes (commercially) but they grow well here. I can grow potatoes by doing nothing other than burying a few potatoes from last years harvest.
There's a huge difference between you can pop in a good and get it to grow and it is the most economically efficient crop to grow in your area.
One of the biggest proofs is just in the price difference. If a crop can cost less when shipped from far away than grown locally, how much chance is there that it required more input to grow on top of the transit costs?
http://freakonomics.com/2011/11/14/the-inefficiency-of-local-food/
I'm not sure why in a local versus shipped discussion the idea of a small farm versus a large farm is terribly germane, it seems more like trying to just muddy the discussion.
In my area all local produce is from small farms, so while it might not seem germane to the point you are trying to make, it is germane to the subject. There are many areas where buying locally means supporting small farms, not large. Whether it's germane to this thread is arguable, since local doesn't mean organic.0 -
hollydubs85 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »hollydubs85 wrote: »I once debated a hemp enthusiast on a Ted discussion, who wanted to replace all crops with hemp. Replace cattle ranches with hemp. Replace tree farms with hemp. Because superior foodstuff apparently. And makes great twine too. And paper. And fuel oil. But I think I won that one.
I live in the middle of an agricultural district, and I understand that different lands demand different crops. At least that's the most efficient way to go about it. I'm also in a very, very northern city. So if I were to eat year-round from what grows naturally on the land here, I'd be chewing on a lot of pemmican. And no peaches.
All-natural and home-grown sounds wonderful, but please don't dismiss the knowledge of the modern farmer, who may be growing the best crop in the best place in the world. I also cheer on our modern transportation network, that brings me lemons, limes, and peaches for a varied and interesting diet.
This brings up a good point. I like to eat a lot of exotic fruits and vegetables. Stuff that can't or isn't even grown in the contiguous United States. Do people that swear by organic foods ONLY eat local produce? Unless you live in California or Florida, that can be very limiting.
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.
Well, from a regulatory perspective, it can't exactly be certified USDA organic unless it was grown in the United States.
Even a lot of produce coming to Texas (where I live) from other states cannot be grown organic simply because a lot of the regulatory quarantines for pests and diseases. A lot of the commercially-produced organics we get from Florida are treated with radiation, and that brings up a whole other debate.
Oh, I don't think most people mean "in the US" when they say buy local. I think they mean from farms in their local area. Like from a Farmer's Market or roadside stand, or direct from the farm or co-op, or perhaps a local grocer that carries local produce. Or a local meat processor for meat.
Understood, but like I said, unless you live in California or Florida, that can be pretty limiting if an individual is wanting to ONLY eat organic produce.
Yeah, I guess from some perspectives it could seem limiting to eat local. I mean, tropical fruits would be problematic, for example.
But again, food does not have to be local, or even grown in the US, to be organic. If you have the money it's easy to ONLY organic.0 -
1. Usually I see organic studies having the huge bias, and really obvious. Most organic studies that try to claim they're near or at parity with conventional measure their best acre in their best year against the average acre for conventional farming.TheDevastator wrote: »DogRiverDude wrote: »This past weekend my brother-in-law raised an excellent point regarding the production of organic food... something I had never considered. In summary he stated...
"We live in a world that has people starving to death; generally speaking there's not enough land to produce the volume of food needed to feed the population. The production of Organic Food requires more land area to yield the same volume of NON-organic food therefore, one of two things (or combination thereof) must occur each time a consumer chooses 'Organic':
1) another person in our world goes hungry, and/or
2) additional land must be cleared to produce more organic food."
His logic is sound but sadly it's not something that "us" North Americans (or Europeans) consider when we're filling our carts at the grocery store.
"The researchers pointed out that the available studies comparing farming methods were often biased in favor of conventional agriculture, so this estimate of the yield gap is likely overestimated."
newscenter.berkeley.edu/2014/12/09/organic-conventional-farming-yield-gap/
"the world already produces 22 trillion calories annually via agriculture, enough to provide more than 3,000 calories to every person on the planet. The food problem is one of distribution and waste—whether the latter is food spoilage during harvest, in storage or even after purchase. According to the Grocery Manufacturers Association, in the U.S. alone, 215 meals per person go to waste annually."
scientificamerican.com/article/organic-farming-yields-and-feeding-the-world-under-climate-change/
2. Saying we already produce enough is sidestepping the issue. It ignores
A. Farming needs not not just feed calories now, it needs to feed 9 billion people in 2050.
B. Productivity is still matters because most crops people eat are grown in the same or a neighboring country. Raising people out of starvation will happen best by having the best conventional practices done everywhere to share that knowledge with areas that are still trying to expand to feed their population adequately.
C. While we can grow 3,000 calories per person now (and I'm guessing this assumes a near vegan diet), that doesn't mean organic can provide that same number of calories without also increasing the inputs - in particular, hand labor which means more people have to be farmers, eating even more calories doing more manual labor.
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I used to be one of those organic, non-GMO people
then I learned a lot of things, like about the unsustainability of organic farming, in that it is much more harmful to farmland than modern agricultural practices
or that it feeds far less people for the same acreage
or that it often uses a higher quantity of pesticides, which are not proven to be safer than "chemical" pesticides
or that organic foods have not been proven safer or healthier, only more expensive
or that the organic foods industry is in the range of tens of billions of dollars annually, and is far from some sort of environmentally-conscious grassroots movement0 -
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asflatasapancake wrote: »I used to be one of those organic, non-GMO people
then I learned a lot of things, like about the unsustainability of organic farming, in that it is much more harmful to farmland than modern agricultural practices
or that it feeds far less people for the same acreage
or that it often uses a higher quantity of pesticides, which are not proven to be safer than "chemical" pesticides
or that organic foods have not been proven safer or healthier, only more expensive
or that the organic foods industry is in the range of tens of billions of dollars annually, and is far from some sort of environmentally-conscious grassroots movement
The bolded one is where I get stuck. One of my friends insists organic fruit tastes infinitely better than other fruit and will only buy organic fruit from now on. I've tasted it. Meh. I'll pay less and be fine I think.
Veblen goods always taste better than normal.0 -
asflatasapancake wrote: »I used to be one of those organic, non-GMO people
then I learned a lot of things, like about the unsustainability of organic farming, in that it is much more harmful to farmland than modern agricultural practices
or that it feeds far less people for the same acreage
or that it often uses a higher quantity of pesticides, which are not proven to be safer than "chemical" pesticides
or that organic foods have not been proven safer or healthier, only more expensive
or that the organic foods industry is in the range of tens of billions of dollars annually, and is far from some sort of environmentally-conscious grassroots movement
The bolded one is where I get stuck. One of my friends insists organic fruit tastes infinitely better than other fruit and will only buy organic fruit from now on. I've tasted it. Meh. I'll pay less and be fine I think.
Are they buying local organic fruit? Organic or not, the fresher the fruit the better it usually tastes. There is quite a difference in taste between the apples I pull from my trees to eat immediately and apples trucked to my local grocer.0 -
The local organic farm ships in quite a bit of the produce it sells at its farm stand, which I find weird.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »asflatasapancake wrote: »I used to be one of those organic, non-GMO people
then I learned a lot of things, like about the unsustainability of organic farming, in that it is much more harmful to farmland than modern agricultural practices
or that it feeds far less people for the same acreage
or that it often uses a higher quantity of pesticides, which are not proven to be safer than "chemical" pesticides
or that organic foods have not been proven safer or healthier, only more expensive
or that the organic foods industry is in the range of tens of billions of dollars annually, and is far from some sort of environmentally-conscious grassroots movement
The bolded one is where I get stuck. One of my friends insists organic fruit tastes infinitely better than other fruit and will only buy organic fruit from now on. I've tasted it. Meh. I'll pay less and be fine I think.
Are they buying local organic fruit? Organic or not, the fresher the fruit the better it usually tastes. There is quite a difference in taste between the apples I pull from my trees to eat immediately and apples trucked to my local grocer.
This. Fresher definitely tastes better when it comes to produce, especially fruit. That has nothing to do with if it's organic or not though.
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The local organic farm ships in quite a bit of the produce it sells at its farm stand, which I find weird.
It will just depend on the area I guess. The farmers market I go to only sells locally produced goods (it's one of their policies). The bigger one in our area has a mix, but the ones who are local growers get a special sign that they get to display on their booth.0 -
Sarasmaintaining wrote: »The local organic farm ships in quite a bit of the produce it sells at its farm stand, which I find weird.
It will just depend on the area I guess. The farmers market I go to only sells locally produced goods (it's one of their policies). The bigger one in our area has a mix, but the ones who are local growers get a special sign that they get to display on their booth.
This is similar to one and only farmer's market in my area. There is no special sign, but the local farms put the name and county of their farm to distinguish from those sellers who ship stuff in.
Road side stands in front of small farms (or big gardens) are common though. In those cases, I think the produce has to come from that specific place or else they need a permit.0 -
I don't think eating all organic is that important but I do try to buy organic if the organic produce is just a little bit more than the conventional.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Food doesn't need to be local to be organic. In fact, I doubt local food is more likely to be organically grown than commerical.
Totally agreed. I made the mistake of asking a dude running his produce stand if his food was organic/non GMO. Boy did that ever set off a tirade! LOL. (Short answer, no, and he had very strong opinions about the subject.)
I did buy come cantaloupes.
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