When does surplus-eating turn to fat?
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besee_2000 wrote: »OP I give you mad props for pursuing a healthier lifestyle. A woman's body needs "flab" to keep us thriving. Best of luck to your goals. Don't be discouraged by the mirror or how your clothes fit.
Thanks
I'm hoping to lose the 'scrawny' look of my upper chest, back and arms soon, right now all the extra flab seems to have gone to my belly and boobs, lol :b As for clothes, I still have all the clothes from my weight loss, so I'll actually be able to fit more of it when I gain a bit! 0 -
No, that was taught for a long time as a hypothesis, but it has been confirmed, your fat cells do die off and get replaced, so that every ten years there are probably no originals left.
Ok, that is true but the point is that we don't build fat cells from eating in surplus. Replenishing cells sure but if our bodies were trying to conserve energy it wouldn't expend energy on building if it didn't have to.0 -
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.0 -
besee_2000 wrote: »
No, that was taught for a long time as a hypothesis, but it has been confirmed, your fat cells do die off and get replaced, so that every ten years there are probably no originals left.
Ok, that is true but the point is that we don't build fat cells from eating in surplus. Replenishing cells sure but if our bodies were trying to conserve energy it wouldn't expend energy on building if it didn't have to.
Your body will build new fat cells, so it is probable that the absolute number of them do change.
But yes, most fat increases just lead to existing fat cells holding more fat molecules.0 -
I calculate a BMI of 17.1 from that, which is still in the underweight category. You'd need to be about 125 to clear into normal according to the NIH. I know it isn't the answer you'd like, but you might just have to keep gaining some weight, and unfortunately, you can't have all of it go to the spots you want, it is going to go where it wants.
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.0 -
I calculate a BMI of 17.1 from that, which is still in the underweight category. You'd need to be about 125 to clear into normal according to the NIH. I know it isn't the answer you'd like, but you might just have to keep gaining some weight, and unfortunately, you can't have all of it go to the spots you want, it is going to go where it wants.
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.
I'm fine with continuing to gain, continuing to eat at surplus, and I'm not concerned about where it'll go, I liked the fat-distrubution I had when I was heavier, so I'm sure it'll go towards that. I was just wondering if I might be so lucky that the 'flabbyness' I felt now, could already be my period, or already be fat-storing (both options would be good, as both would indicate improvement of my health). Or if it's just bloating from salt/carbs/etc.0 -
I calculate a BMI of 17.1 from that, which is still in the underweight category. You'd need to be about 125 to clear into normal according to the NIH. I know it isn't the answer you'd like, but you might just have to keep gaining some weight, and unfortunately, you can't have all of it go to the spots you want, it is going to go where it wants.
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.
I'm fine with continuing to gain, continuing to eat at surplus, and I'm not concerned about where it'll go, I liked the fat-distrubution I had when I was heavier, so I'm sure it'll go towards that. I was just wondering if I might be so lucky that the 'flabbyness' I felt now, could already be my period, or already be fat-storing (both options would be good, as both would indicate improvement of my health). Or if it's just bloating from salt/carbs/etc.
How much scale weight have you gained in the last week and a half?0 -
I calculate a BMI of 17.1 from that, which is still in the underweight category. You'd need to be about 125 to clear into normal according to the NIH. I know it isn't the answer you'd like, but you might just have to keep gaining some weight, and unfortunately, you can't have all of it go to the spots you want, it is going to go where it wants.
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.
I'm fine with continuing to gain, continuing to eat at surplus, and I'm not concerned about where it'll go, I liked the fat-distrubution I had when I was heavier, so I'm sure it'll go towards that. I was just wondering if I might be so lucky that the 'flabbyness' I felt now, could already be my period, or already be fat-storing (both options would be good, as both would indicate improvement of my health). Or if it's just bloating from salt/carbs/etc.
Well keep at it and hopefully it will come back sooner rather than later. My other thought is loo into how you can reduce stress (including not being too over eager about it coming back quickly). Stress is always sending a body signal that turns off all long term planning, which periods / ovulation / having kids are all you're bodies most long term planning.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »
I calculate a BMI of 17.1 from that, which is still in the underweight category. You'd need to be about 125 to clear into normal according to the NIH. I know it isn't the answer you'd like, but you might just have to keep gaining some weight, and unfortunately, you can't have all of it go to the spots you want, it is going to go where it wants.
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.
I'm fine with continuing to gain, continuing to eat at surplus, and I'm not concerned about where it'll go, I liked the fat-distrubution I had when I was heavier, so I'm sure it'll go towards that. I was just wondering if I might be so lucky that the 'flabbyness' I felt now, could already be my period, or already be fat-storing (both options would be good, as both would indicate improvement of my health). Or if it's just bloating from salt/carbs/etc.
How much scale weight have you gained in the last week and a half?
I haven't weighed myself "accurately" - I weighed myself yesterday afternoon, not undressed and hadn't recently been to bathroom, and it was 11lbs higher than before the 1½ weeks (with early morning, post-bathroom, naked weigh-in)
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So you've been eating at a surplus for 2 1/2 weeks, is that right? You're probably seeing a lot of water retention/bloating and just the extra weight/mass of food in your system. The one other thing that you really want to be aware of is your perception. Eating at a surplus, especially when you went to a lot of trouble to lose weight, can really screw with your head. Even if you know that gaining some weight back is a good thing, even if you agree 100% with your doctor's recommendation -- it's a tough mental place to be. If you're aware that you're eating at a surplus, and if there's even a small part of your brain that is scared about that, it's very easy to perceive your body getting bigger than it actually is in reality. We recommend that people track progress using a tape measure when they're losing, but I think it's also incredibly important when you're gaining. As long as you're measuring accurately (as in, measuring at the same place every time), the tape measure doesn't lie. Even when you're having a fat day, and everyone who's ever gained weight on purpose has fat days, the tape measure is going to tell you the truth.
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.
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So you've been eating at a surplus for 2 1/2 weeks, is that right? You're probably seeing a lot of water retention/bloating and just the extra weight/mass of food in your system. The one other thing that you really want to be aware of is your perception. Eating at a surplus, especially when you went to a lot of trouble to lose weight, can really screw with your head. Even if you know that gaining some weight back is a good thing, even if you agree 100% with your doctor's recommendation -- it's a tough mental place to be. If you're aware that you're eating at a surplus, and if there's even a small part of your brain that is scared about that, it's very easy to perceive your body getting bigger than it actually is in reality. We recommend that people track progress using a tape measure when they're losing, but I think it's also incredibly important when you're gaining. As long as you're measuring accurately (as in, measuring at the same place every time), the tape measure doesn't lie. Even when you're having a fat day, and everyone who's ever gained weight on purpose has fat days, the tape measure is going to tell you the truth.
Not to push the subject as it is your own private business, but it might help to know your height and weights at various points (particularly the lowest point you got to, and what you're at now). Like if you're 5'10" and still sitting at just over a 100, I wouldn't expect your hormones to be in fixed today or tomorrow.OP - do you have an eating disorder...? If yes, then you really need to discuss this stuff with your dr and/or treatment team....
No - I just got too skinny. I had been losing weight (since I was morbidly obese), and I kind of 'forgot' how to eat at maintance rather than a deficit because I had been at it for so long. So I'm working on gaining, until I get better, and then work on 'learning' to maintain.
I'm 5'9", and my lowest was just 2½ weeks ago at 116lbs. Not an extremely low BMI, but the speed of which I lost weight might have affected it too - 2 years ago I was at 265lbs.
No, I've only been surplus-eating for 1½ weeks. The week before that, I had been told to log a week of eating for my doctor, so I started with a weigh-in, where I got the 116lbs. So even though I weighed in even lower than I thought, I continued to eating sort of my normal amounts and foods for the next week until my next appointment, so I could hand in an accurate record of how varied etc. I had been eating to get to that point. Then the appointment 1½ weeks ago is when he told me to eat at a surplus. Which I've happily done
Yes, it does feel sort of 'weird' that it's suddenly 'ok' to take extra-helpings etc. after being focused for so long on 'portion control' etc. So I'm happy to keep tabs on it with my doctor, even when I get better, also so I don't start to get heavier than what is ideal - I'd rather not have to put my body through weightloss again if that is what caused my problems!0 -
From what I understand the body is usually quite efficient at converting unneeded calories to fat but we don't get the choice where it's distributed, that's mainly down to genetics. I'd take what you are seeing as a good sign though, the plan is working and you're gaining in the right way for fat to be laid down for oestrogen production. I dare say it'll take a while for your hormone levels to build to a sufficient level to restore your cycles but don't be discouraged, it'll come round quicker if you don't worry too much about it and it's probably better to gain steadily so you get used to your new portion sizes. Are you getting enough iron for when your cycle does kick in?0
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Thanks for clarifying! You may have gained a very small amount of fat in 1 1/2 weeks, but it's probably not significant. That may have triggered your period -- I hope it did, for your sake! -- but I don't think anyone here would be able to answer that. I'd think it's unlikely that your body would respond so quickly, but I just don't know.
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I was going to suggest using scales that measure your body fat percentage but I'm not sure they're that accurate.0
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I agree that you're likely seeing a lot of water retention as you're eating more. While I know you need to gain fat, if you want to fill out in the places you want and not just your stomach, you may want to think about building some muscle.
And yes, I know you want fat right away to improve your health, and that's understandable. And that's fine. But, most of the fat is going to go where it easily accumulates. Once option would be to put on 10lbs or so (it seems like that is what will get you to your healthy weight) and then look into working on your body composition. It will be a long term goal, but it might give you something to strive for.
You've definitely shown your dedication as you've had a huge loss, and dipping under might be because you still need some goal to work towards (pure guess there). Having long term and more strength/athletic based goals might be a good option for you.0 -
If you are eating more than you burn, you will store fat. If you lift or do some kind of body resistance training, you might use some of those extra calories to build muscle, but this is hard work.
I'm not particulary interested in building muscle, I need to gain fat. My question was whether my feeling of 'flabbyness' and larger breasts could be attributed to having stored fat already or if I have to wait a little longer to see results, or, if it's because the surplus-eating has triggered my period to return, before I've even started storing fat.
lul wut?
So you are complaining about feeling flabby, but then clearly state you are looking to gain fat. I can't even.
Why not gain useful weight instead (i.e. muscle)?0 -
asflatasapancake wrote: »Eating at a surplus will gain fat. No way around that. Like rbiss said, weight lifting can help build muscle, but at no point will you ever just gain muscle and zero fat while eating in a surplus. I'm certainly no expert, but I haven't read that there's an exact percentage of fat vs muscle gained while bulking. Someone who is smarter than me might want to chime in about that.
Why does everyone think I want to gain muscle, lol, I have no interest in that. I just want to feel better and get my period back, and my doc thinks gaining fat and eating at a surplus might help that.
because most people don't want to add 100% fat...
but if that is your goal then keeping eating in a surplus with zero exercise and you should have no issues.
For her though it is only fat that she needs. Gaining muscle will not help her bring back her period. She needs higher body fat, and lifting weights will actually slow that percentage gain down (since her LBM would also increase when all that needs to increase is BF).
I agree with besee_2000 who suggested eating fattier foods. Fat in foods is great for regulating hormones, which can not be a bad thing if you've been without your period for a while.0 -
besee_2000 wrote: »Also to remember is that we have the same amount of fat cells at 100lb as we do 200lb. They just enlarge. (I'm 85% confident about that remembering from school years.) So its not like the body needs to BUILD fat it just contributes to it.
No, that was taught for a long time as a hypothesis, but it has been confirmed, your fat cells do die off and get replaced, so that every ten years there are probably no originals left.
Interesting! So if I can maintain a lower BF for 10ish years, the cells that regrow should possibly be smaller and less prone to quick gains? Unless I'm now merging two concepts hahaha.0 -
asflatasapancake wrote: »Eating at a surplus will gain fat. No way around that. Like rbiss said, weight lifting can help build muscle, but at no point will you ever just gain muscle and zero fat while eating in a surplus. I'm certainly no expert, but I haven't read that there's an exact percentage of fat vs muscle gained while bulking. Someone who is smarter than me might want to chime in about that.
Why does everyone think I want to gain muscle, lol, I have no interest in that. I just want to feel better and get my period back, and my doc thinks gaining fat and eating at a surplus might help that.
Because it's VERY VERY rare for someone to JUST want to gain fat. Don't take it personally.0 -
Hard to say. It has been confirmed the cells do die and get replaced. It hasn't been figured out (to my knowledge) if the cells remain roughly equal in numbers over time, or if having fewer in number is actually associated with carrying less fat.besee_2000 wrote: »Also to remember is that we have the same amount of fat cells at 100lb as we do 200lb. They just enlarge. (I'm 85% confident about that remembering from school years.) So its not like the body needs to BUILD fat it just contributes to it.
No, that was taught for a long time as a hypothesis, but it has been confirmed, your fat cells do die off and get replaced, so that every ten years there are probably no originals left.
Interesting! So if I can maintain a lower BF for 10ish years, the cells that regrow should possibly be smaller and less prone to quick gains? Unless I'm now merging two concepts hahaha.
If in 10 years you had the same number of cells and the same mass of fat, the cells would basically have to be the same size. In the end fat mass in the body is various fatty acids and lipids, so two people with equal masses of fat have to have pretty similar masses worth of those molecules, so more cells means each cell would hold less individually, or less cells would mean each cell holds more.
Like I said, I'm not sure of the actual tested research on it, but my intuition would be that having fewer fat cells that have more fat molecules in them would be preferential and less likely to send hunger signals associated with gaining weight.0 -
If you are eating more than you burn, you will store fat. If you lift or do some kind of body resistance training, you might use some of those extra calories to build muscle, but this is hard work.
I'm not particulary interested in building muscle, I need to gain fat. My question was whether my feeling of 'flabbyness' and larger breasts could be attributed to having stored fat already or if I have to wait a little longer to see results, or, if it's because the surplus-eating has triggered my period to return, before I've even started storing fat.
lul wut?
So you are complaining about feeling flabby, but then clearly state you are looking to gain fat. I can't even.
Why not gain useful weight instead (i.e. muscle)?
I wasn't complaining - I just wasn't sure if my feeling of flabby-ness is due to having already build up fat, or if it's a 'symptom' of PMS.
To me, gaining fat will (likely) be useful, and gaining muscle will be counter productive. I need a higher bodyfat%0 -
WaterBunnie wrote: »I was going to suggest using scales that measure your body fat percentage but I'm not sure they're that accurate.
They're good at tracking trend in an individual but not accurate at getting an actual number. I.e. If it says you were 17 % one week and 18% another week it's likely your body fat has gone up, but it's unlikely it would be measured as 18% through the "gold standard" methods of air/water displacement or x-ray absorption. What is measured as 18% in one person may be measured as 20% in another.
It's also dependant on how much water you have in your system, so testing before and after peeing can make a difference (or indeed premenstrual bloating).
It does have an advantage over caliper measurements in that it detects fat around the organs and under the skin, where calipers only measure fat under the skin.0 -
mumblemagic wrote: »WaterBunnie wrote: »I was going to suggest using scales that measure your body fat percentage but I'm not sure they're that accurate.
They're good at tracking trend in an individual but not accurate at getting an actual number. I.e. If it says you were 17 % one week and 18% another week it's likely your body fat has gone up, but it's unlikely it would be measured as 18% through the "gold standard" methods of air/water displacement or x-ray absorption. What is measured as 18% in one person may be measured as 20% in another.
It's also dependant on how much water you have in your system, so testing before and after peeing can make a difference (or indeed premenstrual bloating).
It does have an advantage over caliper measurements in that it detects fat around the organs and under the skin, where calipers only measure fat under the skin.
I recently had a DEXA scan - it said 33.7%, my bia scale says 25%.0 -
lul wut?
So you are complaining about feeling flabby, but then clearly state you are looking to gain fat. I can't even.
Why not gain useful weight instead (i.e. muscle)?
Fat IS "useful" weight. There is such thing as having too low a body fat%. It messes with your hormones, makes you infertile, risks osteoporosis and much more. So just gaining muscle wont do her any good at all, and that's a very orthorexic way of looking at things. We need to scrap this idea that fat is "bad" or "useless".0 -
Not sure I'd bother with the DEXA scan until I was at what I consider to be goal - just to double check I wasn't still 'at risk' from visceral fat - but I'd be really interested to know what my true BMR is - but even then that's useless information because it's the TDEE I'd really need to then be able to properly calculate deficit required and of course that varies day to day. I guess we're best working with the best estimates we already have if it's working and tackle less of the scientific stuff.0
This discussion has been closed.
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