How do you know if you have plateaued?
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What is it, exactly, that you think people mean when they say muscle weighs more than fat? Or that iron weighs more than styrofoam? You don't think they're necessarily implying equal volumes? It's quite common English usage to say "weighs more than" in place of "is more dense than."Muscle doesn't weigh more than fat, it takes up less space, but it does not weigh more.
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I was with you that adaptive thermogenesis probably occurs with prolonged periods of eating at a deficit (and with larger deficits). I was certainly not with you when you contemplated short periods of eating at maintenance to counteract that.
But, I just cannot even comprehend why you would pick the words "tablespoon", and "peanut butter" and put them together in a sentence that is supposed to convey that you log your food accurately.
+1
I USED to measure inaccurately(but of course, like OP, I thought I was doing it right), until I got a scale and actually realized how much more I was eating!
But my $.02- 2 weeks is not a stall
- CICO is the way to go. You need to burn more than you eat.
- Log everything, weigh solid/measure liquid. Even if your diary isn't open, you can compare sodium intake to weight fluctuations or maybe just a bad week to a "slight" gain!
If you're not willing to "wait around" to see if you hit a plateau down the road, and would rather give up(as you said in previous posts) then you're not as dedicated to this as you say you are. You need to be 100% willing to make this a lifestyle change, and it WILL NOT happen over night! I started at 248.8, and am down 45lb as of this morning. I still have a MINIMUM of 50 pounds to go, but I am patient with this process, and loving the results that I have so far! It will come, just remain patient and accurate!!!
What other users are telling you on here is true! Listen to them, because they have "been there/done that" and they are only trying to help! They are truthful and honest because THAT is how they got to be where they are now!!! Would you rather listen to somebody that has zig-zagged but never made it all the way to maintenance, or would you want to hear if from somebody that has made it to maintenance and has been in maintenance for a few months-years? I choose the one that did it right!
ETA: I only mention these things because I once sought out help from the forum members before, and they truly are helpful if you are willing to get their advice! I am no expert on weight loss but these are things that work, and they're proven to work. Just stay committed, tighten up on logging, and be patient! I have to tell myself that every morning because I do NOT want to go back to where I was before! Open your mind to their advice and consider their experiences-look at where they are! Do you want to be there too!?0 -
I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
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I think we can agree that it is very, very, very rarely the case that someone's scale isn't moving because they are gaining muscle at the same rate they're gaining fat.DeguelloTex wrote: »
What is it, exactly, that you think people mean when they say muscle weighs more than fat? Or that iron weighs more than styrofoam? You don't think they're necessarily implying equal volumes? It's quite common English usage to say "weighs more than" in place of "is more dense than."Muscle doesn't weigh more than fat, it takes up less space, but it does not weigh more.
What they mean is wrong on a variety of levels. Just the basic definition first and foremost. Secondly, it us wrong because it is usually coupled with the sentiment that you are losing weight, but gaining muscle and that is why the scale has not gone down or why it went up. However, we know that unless it is under very specific circumstances people are not losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. One happens in a deficit and one happens in a surplus.
However, again, it's common usage to say something is heavier than another thing even if "denser" would be more suitable. I submit that very few people are arguing that a pound of muscle weighs more than a pound of fat. Consideration of volume is inherent in the statement. "This brick weighs more than that brick" makes the speaker's thoughts pretty clear, even if "This brick is denser than that brick" is more scientifically accurate. Yes, a pound of the first brick weighs the same as a pound of the second brick.
It seems like it would be much more productive to focus on the "no, you're not gaining muscle to offset your fat loss" part of the discussion than trying to herd everyone toward saying "denser" rather than "heavier" since, even if they used "denser" it still wouldn't change the flawed pseudo-recomp argument, which is really the main mistake.
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I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
@jazzine1 thank you so much for that. I was getting to the point of giving up if I'm honest ...it's been like an endless tide of bro-science, half-truths and ridiculously entrenched factless myths (not here, but the board in general)
..but if what I, and others, keep repeating is getting through to people, even if not the OP, maybe it's not so pointless trying to keep saying it
I owe my success to reading the people who came before me ..hopefully people like you will start to take our places..because I can see an end to me posting here ...although not quite yet0 -
I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
@jazzine1 thank you so much for that. I was getting to the point of giving up if I'm honest ...it's been like an endless tide of bro-science, half-truths and ridiculously entrenched factless myths (not here, but the board in general)
..but if what I, and others, keep repeating is getting through to people, even if not the OP, maybe it's not so pointless trying to keep saying it
I owe my success to reading the people who came before me ..hopefully people like you will start to take our places..because I can see an end to me posting here ...although not quite yet
Never posted to you before, but you , and the others that post are really helpful and inspiring:) Your honesty in saying what works definitely helps others like me that sometimes don't know if there's a light, even when there are some out there that expects it to be like magic!0 -
Rabbitjb I appreciated your counters/expansions. I guess some of my English may be poor in terms of choice. Trick for instance perhaps should be replaced with encouraging the body to return to a positive hormone environment. Long term caloric deficit can cause Hormonal changes that could result in slight ebbs and flows in the positivity of how you respond to food and training.
Although I do agree with you that two weeks is not a true plateau of any sort I was trying to establish a baseline while offering some possible insight as to why things may have slowed if not stalled. Be interesting to know numbers of the OP as these (I feel) would affect how we look at the situation described. I agree that weight loss in my experience is not always Linear but this assumes in all situations all calories are perfectly logged and controlled and yet still weight loss does not follow the mathematics and as you put it, the basic Calorie deficit rule is truly King but do you not think advocating a balanced strategy will affect composition thus affecting future ability to burn calories freely.
I agree with you on most points but with caution as you kind of present a Juxtaposition or contradiction. If calories deficit remains Linear then by logic so should weight loss or fat loss. If the losses are not linear then perhaps things are changing without realisation. Workout intensity etc. Weight loss is never linear due to factor complexity. In out maintenance is not as simple as it may seem.
I think your dismissal of the strength of any kind of physiological advantage is remiss. Placebo affect alone is hugely powerful, even with the knowledge of it being a placebo. Plus the stress of a stall can contribute in changes to hormones and focus but if addressed it could give renewed balance to an approach?
Again tricking is a word that perhaps simplifies too much but my aim is to convey the value of ensuring your body has fats, proteins it needs to respond correctly to training and maximise fat loss.1200 kcal is low and therefore if those macros are out could mean Fats are short enough to hinder hormone regulation. Calorie deficit is king as you have intimated but there is a little more under that surface than sometimes we like to accept. Insulin sensitivity for example could this mean poor carbohydrate response in a high carbohydrate (relative to other macros) diet is causing some adverse reactions? More data is needed before your assertions become facts.
All of which are valid and probably correct but a little complexity could breed a simple solution.0 -
I started here in Jan and have since read a lot of threads and posts and you guys along with other few seasoned members are my weight loss idols @rabbitjb @missiontofitness @DeguelloTex @SezxyStef lol.
I have learned so much about how weight loss works and the myths from the correct and accurate advise you guys continually give, whether ppl want to believe it or not. Thank you!!
Aw! So glad we've been able to help.
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ChristopherWhite1 wrote: »For instance What are your macro %'s be really useful to know. What is your weekly activity routine. These can be offered without disclosing your diary which I can understand reluctance to do. Judgement can sometimes be harsh and swift from neggers! on the net) .
Embarrassed to say, but what do you mean by Macro's? Like my fat, carbs, sugar per day? I generally stick to the MFP guidelines rarely going over their daily recommended amount for me. What other numbers and details did you need?
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@jezahb, is your stall one where you are bouncing up and down, or one where you are only going up?
Is it continuing?
Once you exclude the usual culprits (sodium, TOM, exercise routine, logging errors, stress, not enough time, and your weight continues to consistently go up even though your logging leeds you to expect otherwise), then it would be appropriate--I am not being facetious here--to go see a Dr. There do exist medical conditions where your body can retain water and/or your weight can increase: some are not so serious, some may be more serious.0 -
It is going up and down but still hasn't gone below where it was June 6th. I was down to 232 June 6th, and now my weight has been bouncing around a bit but staying around 235-238 depending on the day/time of day.0
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Sorry did you say up thread you have a thyroid condition? When did you last have your bloods run?0
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Standard advice for Macros is
Protein (0.64-0.82g per lb bodyweight) - as a minimum
Fat (0.35g per lb of bodyweight) - as a minimum
Carbs - can fall where they may
If you want to translate that to percentages then fat=9 cals per g, protein and carbs =4 cals per gramme0 -
Interesting, MFP has my goals for those are set below what I calculated out. They have my "goal" for fat 66g and calculations you gave me says my minimum would be 82g. Protein is even worse, MFP has it set at 100g and my calculations show it at 150g-192g. Fat I usually hit the 66g goal mark (this week my average was 72g) or a little over, protein I don't get anywhere near even 100g, I average out at about 45g of protein each day.0
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Sorry did you say up thread you have a thyroid condition? When did you last have your bloods run?
Yes, I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis (essentially autoimmune where your body attacks your thyroid) and had my last tests in April. At the point they were ok, but the issue with Hashi's is it does tend to fluctuate greatly since it depends on how badly it is being attacked at the moment.
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Sorry did you say up thread you have a thyroid condition? When did you last have your bloods run?
Yes, I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis (essentially autoimmune where your body attacks your thyroid) and had my last tests in April. At the point they were ok, but the issue with Hashi's is it does tend to fluctuate greatly since it depends on how badly it is being attacked at the moment.
It definitely does make life more difficult ...you can be continuing to do everything right but your condition can change the calories out part of the equation
Unfortunately it makes the generic stall advice and water weight fluctuation knowledge somewhat, though not entirely, irrelevant in your specific circumstances
It's still only 2 weeks though, I think I'd give it another 2 and head back for blood tests if it doesn't stabilise0 -
Interesting, MFP has my goals for those are set below what I calculated out. They have my "goal" for fat 66g and calculations you gave me says my minimum would be 82g. Protein is even worse, MFP has it set at 100g and my calculations show it at 150g-192g. Fat I usually hit the 66g goal mark (this week my average was 72g) or a little over, protein I don't get anywhere near even 100g, I average out at about 45g of protein each day.
The macro splits I gave you are based on research for those who do bodybuilding eg for a dedicated professional athlete the research showed that over 0.82g protein per lb was not really needed ...although there's, as always, some debate there and many say 1g per lb.
I do resistance training ...but I'm an older woman just enjoying it and the results so I focus on trying to hit the minimum 0.64g as a protein minimum to support muscle repair etc
As for fats, I seem to fall short but fat is an important macro for nutrient absorption and supporting systems
I also tend to eat a fair amount of carbs cos yum
I try not to get obsessive and use it as a general guide ...my macro splits are not even set to that on here because of how much exercise impacts on the actual grammes... I just keep an eye on it
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So your thyroid's current condition could be affecting your actual TDEE making it lower than your calculated one.
At 200+ lbs you have a good amount of lean mass on you. Preserving the most of it that you can while losing fat seems (to me) to be a good idea.
High protein intake (absent kidney problems) helps preserve your lean body mass. 45g a day is certainly NOT very high...0
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