Article - IIFYM: A New Vehicle for Eating Disorders
Replies
-
Good ol Jason Blaha.
Here's my opinion of this article:
I don't like how he words some of his statements. I'd have probably softened things up quite a bit more and to just make a point, as I'm working on writing (been blogging a bit on MFP) I've also been advised to soften things up a bit from a few fitness pros who I trust, and I already word things softer than Jason does.
I don't particularly like how he's attempting to explain or justify his position on things in the body of the article.
But having said that, I totally agree with his conclusion, and I think the last section of the article is excellent.0 -
This content has been removed.
-
Good ol Jason Blaha.
Here's my opinion of this article:
I don't like how he words some of his statements. I'd have probably softened things up quite a bit more and to just make a point, as I'm working on writing (been blogging a bit on MFP) I've also been advised to soften things up a bit from a few fitness pros who I trust, and I already word things softer than Jason does.
I don't particularly like how he's attempting to explain or justify his position on things in the body of the article.
But having said that, I totally agree with his conclusion, and I think the last section of the article is excellent.
Yeah, but Tiger Fitness isn't going to pay out the 10 lb protein powders to Jason if his writing is soft and doesn't get people talking. Jason's all too aware, trying to rustle jimmies gets clicks.0 -
Good ol Jason Blaha.
Here's my opinion of this article:
I don't like how he words some of his statements. I'd have probably softened things up quite a bit more and to just make a point, as I'm working on writing (been blogging a bit on MFP) I've also been advised to soften things up a bit from a few fitness pros who I trust, and I already word things softer than Jason does.
I don't particularly like how he's attempting to explain or justify his position on things in the body of the article.
But having said that, I totally agree with his conclusion, and I think the last section of the article is excellent.
Yeah, but Tiger Fitness isn't going to pay out the 10 lb protein powders to Jason if his writing is soft and doesn't get people talking. Jason's all too aware, trying to rustle jimmies gets clicks.
Oh absolutely, I agree. He's totally aware and doing it for a reason.0 -
MamaBirdBoss wrote: »MamaBirdBoss wrote: »And, sorry, but if you can't have a social life because of your fetishistic attitude toward food--THAT is disordered eating.
We see this all the time with (a minority of) calorie counters on MFP.
You may have just made the author's point...
How can you NOT do it, though? I've been to 4 restaurants in 4 weeks and ordered a full meal at all 4 and was no more than 1300 calories on any of those days.
If you're a silly person who can't figure out things or look up a chain restaurant ahead of time, this might be an issue, but if you have two brain cells to rub together to keep warm, it's not that hard.
And those who freak out get it explained to them.
A challenge for you: step back, look at your posting style and see if you can make your point without flinging insults. No, you're not necessarily insulting any one specific person, but if it's rude nonetheless. (And frankly has me thinking: "the lady doth protest too much".) Just a thought.0 -
For the sake of argument: how is it "messed up"?MamaBirdBoss wrote: »Just think for a moment what the opposite of "clean" eating would be..."dirty" eating. How is that NOT messed up?
0 -
The author is making it worse than it is. I don't know many IIFYM proponents who use their food scale in public... it's pretty ridiculous. Of course it's going to make it look like they have an eating disorder...
Otherwise, yeah, I agree with the last part. Everyone got to do what works for them.0 -
Article reads as though author has no idea what IIFYM means, other than the "if it fits your macros". He comes off as IIFYM = Eating All "Junk" Food Even If Allergic/Intolerant To It and you can't be satisfied/satiated on an IIFYM diet. He's as militant in his stance as the people he's complaining about.
I would also like to lol at the abuse flag(s) ITT.0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."0 -
Good ol Jason Blaha.
Here's my opinion of this article:
I don't like how he words some of his statements. I'd have probably softened things up quite a bit more and to just make a point, as I'm working on writing (been blogging a bit on MFP) I've also been advised to soften things up a bit from a few fitness pros who I trust, and I already word things softer than Jason does.
I don't particularly like how he's attempting to explain or justify his position on things in the body of the article.
But having said that, I totally agree with his conclusion, and I think the last section of the article is excellent.
+1
That's exactly how I read the piece too. The body ... needed some polishing.
The wrap up was excellent.
0 -
At the end of the day, some people will do best with a meal plan, others with a flexible dieting approach like IIFYM, and others a list of foods they can and cannot eat.
I agree with this.0 -
Oh yes, I have certainly seen this:...Before long, the fitness community was awash with people spamming forums and social media with pictures of Pop-tarts with Nutella slathered between them, or crispy bacon fresh from the skillet dipped into bowls of rocky road ice cream with the caption:
“I made this fit my macros” and “I’m eating this on a calorie deficit.”...In fact, before long anyone that didn’t consume Pop-tarts, despite the fact that his pastry generally tastes like a mixture of vomit, cardboard and table sugar with a hint of cinnamon or strawberry, was labeled as having an eating disorder. On every bodybuilding forum across the web anyone that didn’t eat junk food clearly needed psychiatric help because they had disordered eating and a poor relationship with food.
Eating “healthy” was out and Pop-tarts were in!0 -
-
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
0 -
Yup. That should be the goal!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yup. That should be the goal!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
You know this is going to get really boring if we keep agreeing like this right?0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."
I saw this as well.
I think he's making a bit of a false dilemma here only in that I could see people on IIFYM still entering "f it" mode so I don't think the system in itself is preventative of that. That's more down to the individual and not the method they choose.
I totally agree that people should also learn to eat mindfully. I think a method where you track intake could help that but I think mindful eating extends beyond estimation of calories. Plenty of people employ a mindful eating strategy that involves behaviors rather than estimating calorie and macronutrient counts.
0 -
roselemonade wrote: »Sure. You see all kinds of obsessiveness on the forums all the time - and it's an awfully thin line between obsessive and disordered. When people go feces-flinging ape nuts because someone called a food "clean" - yeah, there's quite possibly a problem there.
...There's a funny... duality? to the beliefs of some people here where they think that humans in general have both no self control and infinite self control. For example, if someone says "I stopped buying and eating Oreo cookies because I know that I can't stop at just one or two," you get a lot of people telling them that 1. they should just eat them in moderation and not deny themselves Oreos because 2) if they deny themselves entirely, that will cause them to overeat. So, a person with a self-described control problem is told they should exercise more control, or else they won't be able to control themselves (if this is not quite coherent, sorry, it's hard to put the problem into words.)
Also, different diets/programs/lifestyles work for different people at different times, and trying to apply one system to every person is futile...
Very astute points. My motto about a safe method of weight loss is, "If it's working for you, hallelujah."
When I had a drinking problem in the 90s, AA didn't work for me. But it did work for friends and family, and I went with them to meetings and didn't bash their process. I can drink in moderation now, but would never dream of suggesting it to someone who is managing their drinking problem via abstinence.
Similarly, if someone is managing their weight loss by not having Oreos in the house, I would never suggest moderation for them at this point in time.
However, if someone is managing their weight loss by having Oreos in moderation, hallelujah.
I feel strongly about eating meat that was humanely raised. While I think the world would be a better place if animals everywhere where humanely raised, people can't appreciate that me having this sentiment is not the same as saying, "You, too, should eat humanely raised meat."
Some people project what I advocate for myself as saying they should do it for themselves as well, which baffles me.
When I use an "I" statement, I am being genuine, not passive-aggressive.
I recognize that we are all individuals with different paths.0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."
I saw this as well.
I think he's making a bit of a false dilemma here only in that I could see people on IIFYM still entering "f it" mode so I don't think the system in itself is preventative of that. That's more down to the individual and not the method they choose.
I totally agree that people should also learn to eat mindfully. I think a method where you track intake could help that but I think mindful eating extends beyond estimation of calories. Plenty of people employ a mindful eating strategy that involves behaviors rather than estimating calorie and macronutrient counts.
Ha, I have gone in to "F-it" mode a few times and had some epic blowouts, so I get where you are coming from.
I am sure that I am to a point now where I could do mindful eating and hit most of my calorie/macro/micro targets; however, I continue to log everything in, because I like having access to the numbers...
I really do not find using a food scale to be too obsessive; however, when I am out and about I do not fret about having to log in every meal with 100% accuracy, which to me is the middle ground = log accurately when you can, and don't worry about it when you can't.0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."
I saw this as well.
I think he's making a bit of a false dilemma here only in that I could see people on IIFYM still entering "f it" mode so I don't think the system in itself is preventative of that. That's more down to the individual and not the method they choose.
I totally agree that people should also learn to eat mindfully. I think a method where you track intake could help that but I think mindful eating extends beyond estimation of calories. Plenty of people employ a mindful eating strategy that involves behaviors rather than estimating calorie and macronutrient counts.
Ha, I have gone in to "F-it" mode a few times and had some epic blowouts, so I get where you are coming from.
I am sure that I am to a point now where I could do mindful eating and hit most of my calorie/macro/micro targets; however, I continue to log everything in, because I like having access to the numbers...
I really do not find using a food scale to be too obsessive; however, when I am out and about I do not fret about having to log in every meal with 100% accuracy, which to me is the middle ground = log accurately when you can, and don't worry about it when you can't.
If whatever you are doing works for you, doesn't cause you stress or other negative features, and it's sustainable then rock on.
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yup. That should be the goal!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
You know this is going to get really boring if we keep agreeing like this right?
Have I ever told you how much I like your profile.
Bike porn.
0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."
I saw this as well.
I think he's making a bit of a false dilemma here only in that I could see people on IIFYM still entering "f it" mode so I don't think the system in itself is preventative of that. That's more down to the individual and not the method they choose.
I totally agree that people should also learn to eat mindfully. I think a method where you track intake could help that but I think mindful eating extends beyond estimation of calories. Plenty of people employ a mindful eating strategy that involves behaviors rather than estimating calorie and macronutrient counts.
Ha, I have gone in to "F-it" mode a few times and had some epic blowouts, so I get where you are coming from.
I am sure that I am to a point now where I could do mindful eating and hit most of my calorie/macro/micro targets; however, I continue to log everything in, because I like having access to the numbers...
I really do not find using a food scale to be too obsessive; however, when I am out and about I do not fret about having to log in every meal with 100% accuracy, which to me is the middle ground = log accurately when you can, and don't worry about it when you can't.
If whatever you are doing works for you, doesn't cause you stress or other negative features, and it's sustainable then rock on.
I have seen people go both ways with it..
Some go overboard and obsess about logging when they are at a wedding, birthday, etc..and others never use a food scale and then wonder why they are not losing any weight.
IMO finding the right balance between being accurate when you can, and not worrying about when out and about seems to be the correct path.
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."
I saw this as well.
I think he's making a bit of a false dilemma here only in that I could see people on IIFYM still entering "f it" mode so I don't think the system in itself is preventative of that. That's more down to the individual and not the method they choose.
I totally agree that people should also learn to eat mindfully. I think a method where you track intake could help that but I think mindful eating extends beyond estimation of calories. Plenty of people employ a mindful eating strategy that involves behaviors rather than estimating calorie and macronutrient counts.
Ha, I have gone in to "F-it" mode a few times and had some epic blowouts, so I get where you are coming from.
I am sure that I am to a point now where I could do mindful eating and hit most of my calorie/macro/micro targets; however, I continue to log everything in, because I like having access to the numbers...
I really do not find using a food scale to be too obsessive; however, when I am out and about I do not fret about having to log in every meal with 100% accuracy, which to me is the middle ground = log accurately when you can, and don't worry about it when you can't.
If whatever you are doing works for you, doesn't cause you stress or other negative features, and it's sustainable then rock on.
I have seen people go both ways with it..
Some go overboard and obsess about logging when they are at a wedding, birthday, etc..and others never use a food scale and then wonder why they are not losing any weight.
IMO finding the right balance between being accurate when you can, and not worrying about when out and about seems to be the correct path.
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.
I'd go beyond that and say that tracking is a method. It has pros and cons to it. Some people do really well on it and enjoy it. Some people hate it and obsess over it and it becomes a negative thing in their life.
It's not the only way to do things and it's not the definition of mindfulness.
Best bet is to match the method to the person. As a coach, finding that stuff out and helping the client choose the correct path is the tricky part -- something I'm still working on.
But I'm totally against the idea that an ultimate method exists that everyone must use.
Dogma is still dogma even when it's the trendy thing
I'm ranting a bit.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yup. That should be the goal!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
You know this is going to get really boring if we keep agreeing like this right?
Have I ever told you how much I like your profile.
Bike porn.
Ain't nothing like a bit of bike porn ma'am!
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.
Yes, I think that is right as well (I left a similar comment on Sidesteel's blog recently.)
Focusing on the numbers / macros can drive real behavioural change as a person gets a better handle on diet composition, balanced choices, portion size and so on and then through constant repetition this behaviour gets ingrained. Do it enough times and it morphs into unconscious, automatic behaviour. That can be hit and miss though as a strategy.
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yup. That should be the goal!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
You know this is going to get really boring if we keep agreeing like this right?
Have I ever told you how much I like your profile.
Bike porn.
Ain't nothing like a bit of bike porn ma'am!
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.
Yes, I think that is right as well (I left a similar comment on Sidesteel's blog recently.)
Focusing on the numbers / macros can drive real behavioural change as a person gets a better handle on diet composition, balanced choices, portion size and so on and then through constant repetition this behaviour gets ingrained. Do it enough times and it morphs into unconscious, automatic behaviour. That can be hit and miss though as a strategy.
I question this as an automatic process at least in some people. Quite possibly depends on how observant/objective people are when tracking and whether or not they are establishing behaviors while they are tracking intake.
0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."
I saw this as well.
I think he's making a bit of a false dilemma here only in that I could see people on IIFYM still entering "f it" mode so I don't think the system in itself is preventative of that. That's more down to the individual and not the method they choose.
I totally agree that people should also learn to eat mindfully. I think a method where you track intake could help that but I think mindful eating extends beyond estimation of calories. Plenty of people employ a mindful eating strategy that involves behaviors rather than estimating calorie and macronutrient counts.
Ha, I have gone in to "F-it" mode a few times and had some epic blowouts, so I get where you are coming from.
I am sure that I am to a point now where I could do mindful eating and hit most of my calorie/macro/micro targets; however, I continue to log everything in, because I like having access to the numbers...
I really do not find using a food scale to be too obsessive; however, when I am out and about I do not fret about having to log in every meal with 100% accuracy, which to me is the middle ground = log accurately when you can, and don't worry about it when you can't.
If whatever you are doing works for you, doesn't cause you stress or other negative features, and it's sustainable then rock on.
I have seen people go both ways with it..
Some go overboard and obsess about logging when they are at a wedding, birthday, etc..and others never use a food scale and then wonder why they are not losing any weight.
IMO finding the right balance between being accurate when you can, and not worrying about when out and about seems to be the correct path.
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.
I'd go beyond that and say that tracking is a method. It has pros and cons to it. Some people do really well on it and enjoy it. Some people hate it and obsess over it and it becomes a negative thing in their life.
It's not the only way to do things and it's not the definition of mindfulness.
Best bet is to match the method to the person. As a coach, finding that stuff out and helping the client choose the correct path is the tricky part -- something I'm still working on.
But I'm totally against the idea that an ultimate method exists that everyone must use.
Dogma is still dogma even when it's the trendy thing
I'm ranting a bit.
I agree, find what works best for the person and then provide them with the right tools.
I know for me, in the beginning, I needed a food scale because I had no clue about portion sizes or could not come close to correctly guestimating them.
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yup. That should be the goal!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
You know this is going to get really boring if we keep agreeing like this right?
Have I ever told you how much I like your profile.
Bike porn.
Ain't nothing like a bit of bike porn ma'am!
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.
Yes, I think that is right as well (I left a similar comment on Sidesteel's blog recently.)
Focusing on the numbers / macros can drive real behavioural change as a person gets a better handle on diet composition, balanced choices, portion size and so on and then through constant repetition this behaviour gets ingrained. Do it enough times and it morphs into unconscious, automatic behaviour. That can be hit and miss though as a strategy.
I question this as an automatic process at least in some people. Quite possibly depends on how observant/objective people are when tracking and whether or not they are establishing behaviors while they are tracking intake.
Sure, that is a valid observation I think. It can become automatic but that is not necessarily a given. However, I am sure that many people who have tracked for some time could regulate their weight just fine with a few strategies to keep in mind (although of course they may prefer not to - there is a real security in being able to see some concrete numbers which rather than cause psychological distress alleviates it. If it ain't broke...)
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Yup. That should be the goal!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Agreed and what does tracking calories or macros help a person to do?
Eat mindfully
You know this is going to get really boring if we keep agreeing like this right?
Have I ever told you how much I like your profile.
Bike porn.
Ain't nothing like a bit of bike porn ma'am!
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.
Yes, I think that is right as well (I left a similar comment on Sidesteel's blog recently.)
Focusing on the numbers / macros can drive real behavioural change as a person gets a better handle on diet composition, balanced choices, portion size and so on and then through constant repetition this behaviour gets ingrained. Do it enough times and it morphs into unconscious, automatic behaviour. That can be hit and miss though as a strategy.
I question this as an automatic process at least in some people. Quite possibly depends on how observant/objective people are when tracking and whether or not they are establishing behaviors while they are tracking intake.
Sure, that is a valid observation I think. It can become automatic but that is not necessarily a given. However, I am sure that many people who have tracked for some time could regulate their weight just fine with a few strategies to keep in mind (although of course they may prefer not to - there is a real security in being able to see some concrete numbers which rather than cause psychological distress alleviates it. If it ain't broke...)
Yep, definitely agree. There's typically fewer things to establish in people who habitually track intake.
I've had clients go cold turkey from logging to not logging and they are able to maintain weight just fine without any major adjustments. But these were people with established habits outside of tracking intake. I've also had people who really didn't establish those habits, but it wasn't all that difficult to focus on those behaviors and since they were already tracking, the implementation of those behaviors was done while they continued tracking, then the tracking was gradually pulled away.
0 -
I am skimming it now …a few things I noticed..
using a food scale is not unique to IIFYM.
no one is claiming to get ripped off a diet of pop tarts and ice cream. So it appears the author does not even really know what IIFYM is.
he also claims that IIFYM would restrict you in a social setting, which I have never found to be the case.
as a counter, layne norton posted this on FB the other day, which I found an interesting read:
"One of the not so obvious benefits to flexible dieting: the ability to eat mindfully. Once you understand what is actually in food and get good at tracking it's a skill you can apply permanently. I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico the last week. For those who have visited you know that the food choices there are not exactly what you would consider 'clean.' Everything is fried... Everything. And being in the wedding party I needed to participate in wedding activities and since I'm not prepping for a show I was not going to be rude and decline and I was not going to bring a food scale. So since I couldn't be perfect did I say 'screw it' and eat what I want with reckless abandon? No, I ate mindfully and estimated my intake based on portion sizes. Stepped on the scale today and did not gain a single pound. And this was eating fried food minimum 2x/day everyday. Life is going to happen. Eating 'clean' assumes perfect circumstances. Life is never perfect. LIFE happens. Much better to use a system that teaches you to eat mindfully rather than sending you into '*kitten* it' mode every time you can't control things perfectly."
I saw this as well.
I think he's making a bit of a false dilemma here only in that I could see people on IIFYM still entering "f it" mode so I don't think the system in itself is preventative of that. That's more down to the individual and not the method they choose.
I totally agree that people should also learn to eat mindfully. I think a method where you track intake could help that but I think mindful eating extends beyond estimation of calories. Plenty of people employ a mindful eating strategy that involves behaviors rather than estimating calorie and macronutrient counts.
Ha, I have gone in to "F-it" mode a few times and had some epic blowouts, so I get where you are coming from.
I am sure that I am to a point now where I could do mindful eating and hit most of my calorie/macro/micro targets; however, I continue to log everything in, because I like having access to the numbers...
I really do not find using a food scale to be too obsessive; however, when I am out and about I do not fret about having to log in every meal with 100% accuracy, which to me is the middle ground = log accurately when you can, and don't worry about it when you can't.
If whatever you are doing works for you, doesn't cause you stress or other negative features, and it's sustainable then rock on.
I have seen people go both ways with it..
Some go overboard and obsess about logging when they are at a wedding, birthday, etc..and others never use a food scale and then wonder why they are not losing any weight.
IMO finding the right balance between being accurate when you can, and not worrying about when out and about seems to be the correct path.
On the flip side of that, I think the more one logs food in the more you learn about portion sizes so it makes going out easier, in that you kind of know what is gong to be calorie laden and what is not.
I'd go beyond that and say that tracking is a method. It has pros and cons to it. Some people do really well on it and enjoy it. Some people hate it and obsess over it and it becomes a negative thing in their life.
It's not the only way to do things and it's not the definition of mindfulness.
Best bet is to match the method to the person. As a coach, finding that stuff out and helping the client choose the correct path is the tricky part -- something I'm still working on.
But I'm totally against the idea that an ultimate method exists that everyone must use.
Dogma is still dogma even when it's the trendy thing
I'm ranting a bit.
Folks who have YOU as a coach are lucky.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions