Pesticides in produce - are nonorganic fruits and vegetables worthwhile?

2

Replies

  • mantium999
    mantium999 Posts: 1,490 Member
    midpath wrote: »
    my question is do you think the nutrients of fruits and vegetables are worthwhile despite the pesticides?

    I'd say do what you can do. Cleaning up your diet a bit is never a bad thing but don't do it at the expense of livelihood.

    So how did I not answer the question?

    You really don't see how your ambiguous response is not an answer?

    OP asks if people think the benefits of fruits and veggies (nutrients) outweigh the potential negatives (pesticide residue). You respond with "do what you can do", and mention the kind of meat you choose. And didn't address pesticides at all, which is the primary concern contained within the OP.

    So no. You did not answer the question.
  • evileen99
    evileen99 Posts: 1,564 Member
    _John_ wrote: »
    professionalHobbyist wrote: »
    People have wildly varied opinions based on limited information

    DDT was supposed to be safe. The same govt tells us all these pesticides are safe.

    Thalidomide was supposed to be safe. The govt told us so. There was a generation of babies born with birth defects.

    Smoking was actually touted as healthy at one time!!

    I try to avoid poisons when I can.

    I don't know for sure how safe they are or are not. But if I consume as little as possible I feel better about my chances!

    It is a personal choice.

    as far as pesticides go, DDT is not that toxic to us. It just has that nasty little problem of degrading to DDE then sticking around to play with your grandkids.

    Its invention and use has saved millions around the world though...


    Except that exposure to DDT is now thought to be responsible for some of the breast cancer cases in women without any risk factors (70% of women who develop breast cancer have none of the known risk factors).
  • Kalikel
    Kalikel Posts: 9,603 Member
    They say that if you wash your fruits and veggies, there is no more risk with non-organic than there is with organic.

    Some of the veggies in my grocery store - I see no difference. I wonder if they don't put the same stuff in both sections. The same bunches of scallions, in the same shape, with the same rubber bands...makes me wonder.
  • tanowicki
    tanowicki Posts: 60 Member
    Washing your fruits and vegetables gets rid of most of what remains.

    The reason apples are on the 'dirty dozen' list and not oranges is that you peel oranges which means you get rid of the outer layer of the fruit where most of the pesticides would remain. You could peel your apples and grapes to lessen your risk if you want.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    GroovyLord wrote: »
    Also, organic produce is often not pesticide free either. It seems the more you learn about food the more it seems like nothing is completely good for you. Anyways, what do you think folks?

    I think life expectancy increased dramatically in the era of increased pesticide use.

    Draw from that whatever conclusion fits your biases (we all have them!)
  • shadowfax_c11
    shadowfax_c11 Posts: 1,942 Member
    Organic foods have pesticides on them. Just different ones than the regular farmers use. And because they are "natural" the certified organic farmers have to use a lot more of it than the farmers who just grow the food.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/apipkin/10-things-farmers-are-tired-of-hearing-131ey

    Wash your produce and enjoy.
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
    MexicanOsmosis wrote: »
    I'll just put this here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_IoNQHMFLk

    Lovely. :)

    I'll add this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlqk8oV1FVI
    shadowfax_c11 wrote: »
    Organic foods have pesticides on them. Just different ones than the regular farmers use. And because they are "natural" the certified organic farmers have to use a lot more of it than the farmers who just grow the food.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/apipkin/10-things-farmers-are-tired-of-hearing-131ey

    Wash your produce and enjoy.

    That was a beautiful thing.

    I'm loving this thread and its majority of rational responses.
  • Jacqui_Runs
    Jacqui_Runs Posts: 68 Member
    My boyfriend follows a rule when it comes to organic. He only buys organic if it's food that he eats a lot. Eggs and milk he buys organic, that's about it.
  • markdvsmo
    markdvsmo Posts: 16 Member
    I won't get into organic pros/cons; that's a battle that's been going on for years and will continue for years yet to come. What I will say is that if you want to add known-pure, unadulterated vegetables to your diet... grow you own. Even a tiny yard can host a small vegetable garden, and if you can spare even that, container gardening on decks and patios can produce a surprising amount of food. Lettuce, kale, spinach, chard, carrots, radishes... many veggies are dead easy to grow, and you have complete control over what goes on 'em.

    I grow (non-certified) organic produce for my family and a handful of friends. We control weeds and disease with heavy mulch and hand-picking, and fertilize with compost and aged manure (mostly chicken and rabbit). Bugs are controlled by rotating crops around each year and hand-picking or washing them off if they do appear... and a certain amount of "over-production" because we know we'll lose some to the critters. There are no industrially-produced chemical fertilizers or herbicides on anything, contrary to what some here are saying. (I know this is not necessarily the case for commercial organic-labeled products).

    Are we healthier for it? I don't know. I don't think anybody else does, either - including the scientists arguing both sides of the debate. "Proven facts" about health and nutrition are debunked or recanted every day, it seems, and I don't believe anyone can say with 100% certainty that ag chemicals are safe... or not. We eat naturally-raised food because ultimately, common sense tells me it's the least risky choice.
  • ariamythe
    ariamythe Posts: 130 Member
    edited July 2015
    professionalHobbyist wrote: »
    People have wildly varied opinions based on limited information

    DDT was supposed to be safe. The same govt tells us all these pesticides are safe.

    DDT's issue was overuse. Like with any chemical (including water and oxygen) dose counts, and DDT got dumped a LOT, especially in areas where malaria was a problem. Also: It was also the government who did the investigation that led to the U.S. ban. Do you trust that government decision?

    Thalidomide was supposed to be safe. The govt told us so. There was a generation of babies born with birth defects.

    Assuming by "the govt" you mean the U.S. government: Incorrect. In the U.S., thalidomide was never approved for use during the era of Thalidomide babies. That phenomenon was largely in Germany.

    Also: thalidomide has since been approved by the FDA and is still in use in the U.S. today as a component of chemotherapy. Many people benefit from using thalidomide.

    I would also point out that the government also approves the safety of the cars you drive and the buildings you live/work in. Do you wake up every morning paranoid that the ceiling is going to collapse on you or that your car will explode when you start it?

    Governments are imperfect, but don't try to argue that just because the government has made mistakes in the past it cannot ever be trusted again.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,301 Member
    organic or not, many fruits and veg contain salicylate (a toxin) which they produce by themselves as a protection from molds and mildews. This does not matter to the majority but for some of us a build up of salicylate, in our systems cause some people many seemingly unrelated health problems. A food diary will only show these problems if you know what you are looking for.
  • stephchadz
    stephchadz Posts: 143 Member
    I usually soak my veggies in vinegar and water to remove pesticides.
  • Kalikel
    Kalikel Posts: 9,603 Member
    There was not a generation of thalidomide babies. As soon as so many babies were deformed, they thought about why, quickly linked it to the thalidomide and stopped giving it to pregnant women.

    I knew a woman who had hands coming out of her shoulders. She'd been a thalidomide baby. I'm not downplaying how much it sucked for those people...and their poor mothers, who felt guilt even though there was no good reason for it. The whole thing was horrible.

    But it didn't go on for a long time.
  • Drewlssix
    Drewlssix Posts: 272 Member
    bubaluboo wrote: »
    Wash your fruit and veg. It removes both the pesticides and infectious contamination solving two potential hazards in one go.

    This, and I would certainly be more concerned with bacteria and other "natural" things that can be very bad for you.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    markdvsmo wrote: »
    I won't get into organic pros/cons; that's a battle that's been going on for years and will continue for years yet to come. What I will say is that if you want to add known-pure, unadulterated vegetables to your diet... grow you own. Even a tiny yard can host a small vegetable garden, and if you can spare even that, container gardening on decks and patios can produce a surprising amount of food. Lettuce, kale, spinach, chard, carrots, radishes... many veggies are dead easy to grow, and you have complete control over what goes on 'em.

    I grow (non-certified) organic produce for my family and a handful of friends. We control weeds and disease with heavy mulch and hand-picking, and fertilize with compost and aged manure (mostly chicken and rabbit). Bugs are controlled by rotating crops around each year and hand-picking or washing them off if they do appear... and a certain amount of "over-production" because we know we'll lose some to the critters. There are no industrially-produced chemical fertilizers or herbicides on anything, contrary to what some here are saying. (I know this is not necessarily the case for commercial organic-labeled products).

    Are we healthier for it? I don't know. I don't think anybody else does, either - including the scientists arguing both sides of the debate. "Proven facts" about health and nutrition are debunked or recanted every day, it seems, and I don't believe anyone can say with 100% certainty that ag chemicals are safe... or not. We eat naturally-raised food because ultimately, common sense tells me it's the least risky choice.

    <3

    I really love being able to run down to the garden for fresh greens and herbs. This year's bumper strawberry crop is finally waning, just in time for the raspberries. Right now I am also harvesting green peas, swiss chard, bok choy, oregano, chives, sage, basil, cilantro, dill. Looks like I'm a week away from tomatoes.

    Had I known there would be baby woodchucks able to fit through my garden fence, I would have massively over produced the kale, of which they can't get enough. I thought they were finally to big to get through the main fence and the reinforcement I put up a few weeks ago, but was just out there and one of the kale plants looks freshly nibbled >.<

  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    I have used BT for cabbage worms, and as it kills pests it is a pesticide, but:

    Less Toxic Insecticides

    ...Microbial insecticides contain microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, or nematodes) or their by-products. Microbial insecticides are especially valuable because their toxicity to nontarget animals and humans is extremely low.

    Insecticidal products comprised of a single species of microorganism may be active against a wide variety of insects or group of related insects (such as caterpillars) or they may be effective against only one or a few species. Most are very specific. Since there is such a narrow range of insects killed, they spare the beneficial insects almost entirely.

    Bacillus thuringiensis products are the most widely used microbial insecticides in the United States. They are commonly known as Bt. Different subspecies of Bt are effective against different groups of insects or their larvae.

    Read more: http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/pests/pesticide/hgic2770.html

    BT is acceptable in organic gardening.
  • Drewlssix
    Drewlssix Posts: 272 Member
    .
    [/quote]

    as far as pesticides go, DDT is not that toxic to us. It just has that nasty little problem of degrading to DDE then sticking around to play with your grandkids.

    Its invention and use has saved millions around the world though...[/quote]

    This, how many people that bemoan things like pesticides gene mod and other advances would rather have the epic mortality rate we used to suffer not so long ago.
  • kellydavis970
    kellydavis970 Posts: 18 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    well, you wash your fruit and veg right?

    also, organic produce also uses pesticides... :o

    FYI everyone, you can't wash off pesticides! Pesticides are now applied systemically, which means that they are absorbed through the seed/soil/or leaf.
    I am not wealthy by any means (and I mean not even close!) but I chose to splurge on buying as much quality organic and non-gmo food as I can. I really believe that you are what you eat and pesticides and herbicides are poisons. Period.
  • kellydavis970
    kellydavis970 Posts: 18 Member
    As far as nutrients, it is true that our soil is being depleted of nutrients and our food is less nutrient dense than it was 100 years ago, but that is due to bad farming practices, organic or not. Although those damaging practices are harder to use when you aren't using pesticides and herbicides, most organic farms also have better farming practices than conventional ones-which is easier on our soils and our pollinators. One more reason to buy organic :)
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    kellydavis970 wrote: »
    ...our food is less nutrient dense than it was 100 years ago...

    Prove it.

  • kellydavis970
    kellydavis970 Posts: 18 Member
    Time Magazine, Scientific American, NY times, and The Journal of Hortsience says so. They don't blame it completely on soil depletion, they also blame us 'breeding out' nutrient dense species for tastier species, but they do outline how big a problem soil depletion is. Both are good reads! @Mr_Knight

    http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1880145,00.html

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/
  • cwilso37
    cwilso37 Posts: 79 Member
    kellydavis970 wrote: »
    Time Magazine, Scientific American, NY times, and The Journal of Hortsience says so. They don't blame it completely on soil depletion, they also blame us 'breeding out' nutrient dense species for tastier species, but they do outline how big a problem soil depletion is. Both are good reads! @Mr_Knight

    http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1880145,00.html

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

    Few things. Time and scientific american aren't actual science. I am assuming you haven't actually read the article they cite. It looks at all the research which has been done on the topic up till then. Their findings?

    The literature contains some evidence to
    support the hypothesis that increasing tuber
    yields, either by elevating CO2 concentrations
    or by growing higher-yielding varieties,
    can lead to decreased concentrations of some
    mineral elements in tubers, but this is not
    universally observed.

    As well as:

    Recently, a more extensive investigation
    of genetic variation in concentrations of
    mineral elements in potato tubers was initiated
    at the Scottish Crop Research Institute.
    During this investigation, field trials incorporating
    26 commercial potato varieties provided
    no support for the hypothesis that
    higher-yielding varieties have lower concentrations
    of mineral elements in their tubers
    than lower-yielding varieties (Fig. 1; Table
    3).

    I can promise you it isn't as good of a read you think.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    edited July 2015
    kellydavis970 wrote: »
    Time Magazine, Scientific American, NY times, and The Journal of Hortsience says so.

    You really should read the articles you link to before offering them as support for your claims, because those do NOT say what you are saying.

    Massive Google Ninja fail...
  • defatify
    defatify Posts: 41 Member
    The "dirty dozen" list is provided by the environmental working group. They are not an objective source for info on organic vs GM food. One look at their website shows some anti-vax leanings too. They rely on the emotional response to terms like "natural, pure, toxin, clean, dirty" etc to pick up where lack of science to support their ideologies leaves off. I avoid organic foods strictly on principal. Eat plenty of (conventional) fruits and veggies, give em a good rinse, and don't give it another thought. There's no difference in the nutritional value, either.
  • defatify
    defatify Posts: 41 Member
    I'm also pleased to see so many responses that favor facts and science over "toxins" and "chemikillz" it really gives me hope!
  • kellydavis970
    kellydavis970 Posts: 18 Member
    edited July 2015
    Uumm... That's exactly what those articles are saying. They both report on a study at that found that "the average vegetable found in today's supermarket is anywhere from 5% to 40% lower in minerals (including magnesium, iron, calcium and zinc) than those harvested just 50 years ago." if you don't believe that study, that's your problem. But I think it's pretty clear that they found that modern farming practices (including the use of pesticides and herbicides) are producing less healthy food. I'm not saying that conventionally grown vegetables are unhealthy, I'm not even saying that organiclly grown produce is more nutritious. But what I can say is that I don't want to support farming practices that are slowly stripping nutrients from our foods- not to mention the impact it has on our water and our pollinators.

    I'm sure that we can go back and forth about this forever, but only time will tell for sure and in the meantime I want to do everything I can to keep our land fertile and my family healthy.
  • defatify
    defatify Posts: 41 Member
    kellydavis970 wrote: »
    ... stripping nutrients from our foods- not to mention the impact it has on our water and ...in the meantime I want to do everything I can to keep our land fertile and my family healthy.

    The good news is that GM farming practices can help keep soil healthy, can help conserve water, can and produce safe, nutritious food, too! As far as suspected causes of ccd, a definite cause has yet to be sussed out, as there are several factors in play. As others have said, there's no cause for concern in serving your family conventional produce, and makes the most sense from a global perspective too.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    I only buy organic carrots
  • ariamythe
    ariamythe Posts: 130 Member
    I only buy organic tofu, because apparently it doesn't come any other way.
  • AsISmile
    AsISmile Posts: 1,004 Member
    There is pesticide on fruit and veg, there is plastic in fish and in honey. And who knows what else is in our food.
    I'm not worrying about it too much, it is almost impossible to avoid it so worrying gets you nowhere. I much rather enjoy food.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories