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I think you could be overweigh & healthy, but it's definitely not going to last forever that way. Being overweight definitely puts you at risk for a myriad of health problems and the longer you are overweight, the more likely you are to develop said problems. I was overweight & healthy as hell for a long time & then suddenly I wasn't. I developed high blood pressure and sleep apnea & now I'm trying to undo the damage caused by being overweight for so long. I don't know if I ever can. That being said, I know several people who are at an ideal BMI who are incredibly unhealthy. They have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, etc. Being thin doesn't necessarily mean that you're healthy either.0
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A few months ago I hurt my back unrelated to being overweight. When I saw the back specialist he talked about proper lifting and the importance of daily stretching and he also talked about losing weight. Did he need to bring it up? Yes I think he did. Even though I hurt my back in an accident carrying around an extra 125 pounds is not going to help during my recovery. Doctors shouldn't be afraid to point out the obvious.0
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A few months ago I hurt my back unrelated to being overweight. When I saw the back specialist he talked about proper lifting and the importance of daily stretching and he also talked about losing weight. Did he need to bring it up? Yes I think he did. Even though I hurt my back in an accident carrying around an extra 125 pounds is not going to help during my recovery. Doctors shouldn't be afraid to point out the obvious.
Exactly. As long as they don't stop at the obvious.
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That card is terrible. When I was 21, I got the contraceptive pill. At the time, I was obese with an BMI of about 40. My doctor (who had never seen me before that) I guess acted commendable by HAES standards as she didn't mention my weight at all, and failed to inform me that not only did it increase the risk of several side effects of hormonal contraceptives but it also reduced their safety.
To get back on topic: No, I don't think you can be as healthy as you can be if you're obese (or severely underweight—as someone else pointed out that gets left out at lot by HAES advocates).0 -
barbecuesauce wrote: »barbecuesauce wrote: »Nearly every HAES proponent I've seen has been in their 20s. If you're in your 20s and have lousy blood test results, that's probably more the work of your lousy genes than your weight. Where are the 57-year-old HAES advocates?
But the doctor card thing HAES bloggers advocate kills me:
because there are times when the patient NEEDS to lose weight and when medical intervention would be completely inappropriate without weight loss. A person in their twenties can blow out their knees with excess weight. Should they be given new knees, which can last for up to 20 years (but might fail in 3-5, a major risk factor for early failure being excess weight)? What kind of doctor would operate on such a person?
I understand the reason for HAES concept, but the movement can cause a person put on blinders to what's around them. No matter how body confident/comfortable I am at my size, I can't lie to myself and think I am perfectly healthy.
At the same time there are many reasons to look at weight for reasons to diagnose health problems but there are some doctors that get fixated that a person's weight is the cause for all their problems. Sometimes other medical conditions get missed because the whole picture not all possibilities were looked at.
Well, that's definitely wrong, and I don't support that at all. But if a patient has a health issue that would be alleviated by losing weight and the doctor did not mention it, they would not be doing their job. When I hurt my sciatic nerve, my doctor told me to lose weight--and she was right, it almost never troubles me and doesn't put me out of commission for days on end anymore.
and my sciatica had nothing to do with my weight. I had displaced my left iliac but the doctor was fixated on my weight. When she finally figured out what the real issue was, it was almost too late to correct with PT.
That is @Dariasen 's point. Some doctors overlook other possibilities because they only look at weight. They need to look at the whole picture. I agree that the Doctor needs to mention losing weight if it might alleviate a condition, but some of them use it as a scapegoat for everything that is wrong with the patient and they are not doing their job to fixate on that when there are other possibilities.
Unfortunately for you, sciatic nerve pain is correlated to obesity in a dose-dependent fashion. Losing weight is a treatment for sciatica.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24569641
I'm aware of that. You missed my point. When you tell a doctor that you have a pain in the left side of your lower back that radiated down the leg and started when you fell on a rock while hiking the Himalayas, and she diagnoses sciatica and tells you to lose weight instead of looking at possible musculoskeletal injuries, that is fixating on weight as a cause of all problems.
ETA: correlation is not causation. Doctors need to look at causes, not just possible correlations.
I agree that your doctor was wrong to focus on your weight so narrowly (in the post you originally quoted, I acknowledged as much, but also said that doctors should bring up weight if it alleviates medical conditions). You should have sought a referral to physical therapy--although I did the same and the physical therapist brought up my weight as well.
I'm not in the medical field, but it seems sensible that if there is something that a patient can do to alleviate symptoms on their own, a good medical professional needs to suggest that.
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I think people sometimes equate "healthy" with "optimally healthy." I've lost 50+lbs. Currently, for my height and weight I'm just shy of being obese, with a BF% of around ~24%. But I doubt most people on the street would single me out as being obese. Maybe they would. *shrug*
I'm reasonably healthy. My blood work is fine, apart from my A1C being slightly low (I didn't know that was a thing). My doctor doesn't really have any complaints on my behalf. I could be healthier, but I'm not that concerned with it.
That said, my family history of diabetes along with staggering joint and circulation problems, means that as I age my weight will matter more and more.
So I'm more or less healthy now even though I'm basically obese.0 -
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Ohhhh 1) i dont try to act , i actually went to med school , did my 5 years and graduate so yes that actually qualifys me to write that sort of opinion cause i have the same degree than the "smarts people"
I'm not buying it.barbecuesauce wrote: »
Physicians serve the role of health advocates. In Canada the accreditation body for specialty medical training is the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons and their model of residency training is summarized in the CanMEDS roles, one of which is "Health Advocate." As an advocate for health you are responsible for advising your patients to quit doing harmful things - wear their seatbelt when driving, wear a helmet while cycling, stop smoking or drinking to excess and, yes, lose some weight if obese.
It is actually my JOB as a physician to encourage obese people to lose weight. Studies on smoking cessation prove beyond a doubt that a physician advising someone to quit smoking increases their likelihood of actually doing it. I've no reason to think that obesity is any different.
what is it that your are not buying it? That i went to med school, and that my daily job is well work as a physician? Ok im cool with that
About the other thing, Again i never said a physician should not advise, be concerned abouth their patients weight, encourage them to achieve their very best health, oh no you're wrong i fully agree with that, where i was going is how unfairly i've seing SOME overweight patients being take care of, and physicians gets so fixated in their weight issue that they miss other health issues, yes is my job to tell you to loose weight but yes is actually my.job to respect your decision and treat your illness if u decide to loose the weight or not.
I don't buy it either...being from Canada and having family who are doctors...
[Edited by MFP Staff]0 -
So am I wrong in thinking that you can't be healthy while very over weight? It just seems logical to me that more fat equal less healthy.
Depends on what you mean by healthy.
Are some very fat people (many, even) healthy as in they have no adverse health effects from the fat? Sure. I never had any bad test results from being very fat, and could run up and down the 4 flights to my condo without trouble and do everything I needed to do physically (although increasingly as I gained I had started feeling some physical effects, like if I stood a lot or walked a lot my feet would be sore, I probably would have easily injured myself if I'd started running hard again), and I had the hated chafing when I walked unless wearing pants or tights.
However, IMO the absence of specific health effects in an individual are not sufficient to say it can be healthy, as the question should include risks also. Was I at much higher risk of developing health issues of all sorts as I got older? Certainly, yes.
As others have said, people can be lucky and smoke and drink heavily for years and live to 98. We probably all know someone like that. It doesn't make that a healthy way to live your life or a smart thing to do--if you have no ability to predict if you will be lucky or not, why not minimize risks you can control?0 -
On the other hand, I strongly favor encouraging people who are frustrated or think they can't lose weight or who have been stuck in a yoyo or binging type of cycle to focus on the things they can do to improve health even without losing weight, like eating a better diet overall and exercising.
But I also suspect strongly that if they do they'll end up losing weight. For some people, though, the lack of focus on the scale may help them do that and not feel crazy about it.
A book I like that ultimately takes this perspective (not HAES) is Losing It, by Laura Fraser.0 -
In the US doctors use International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems codes for justification to insurance for tests, medical procedures and medications. There are codes for obesity and overweight. They are classified as Endocrine, nutritional and Metabolic disorders (E00-E90). Anything that is classified by the international medical community as a disorder, seems intuitively the opposite of healthy.0
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No, you cannot be Healthy At Every Size. Too little weight, your body cannot function as it was designed just as if you weigh too much. The too little and too much might seem like arbitrary numbers, but using charts like BMI give you a general guideline that will help determine where you fit in the best overall range for your body.
Example, when I was 19 and 110 pounds I had none of the health issues that I currently have, because they have all been caused by weight gain. I am currently 114 lbs over my ideal weight range. It is no accident that those who stick closely to their ideal weight have less health issues in everything from cancer to heart problems.
Being accepting and loving of each other is something that should be done. But going around saying that you can be Healthy At Every Size is just a big ol lie.0 -
Nay. It isn't just for those who are severely overweight. My Mom was 40 + pounds underweight at the age of 72. She was in the early stages of dementia and refused to eat. Her own doctor kept saying as long as she drank and Ensure a day she'd be fine, she was healthy enough. Because of being extremely underweight and medication she was taking she developed a perforated bowel. She survived surgery but because she was so underweight her body was unable to heal and recover. She subsequently died.
She died as a result of being underweight ultimately. She was not healthy at her weight and was not healthy enough to heal. From an identical surgery an 86 year old had the same day and left the hospital 3 days later.0 -
I was technically healthy being obese (5'3" and 250 lbs put me just over the line into morbidly obese), but I don't think it was going to last forever, especially given my family history. Plus, there were some quality of life issues.0
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One of the most exhaustive research papers on the subject, from the Ciccarone Center for the Prevention of Heart Disease, showed that obese people had elevated levels of troponin(cTnT).
Increases in levels troponin T corresponded to increases in people's BMI in a 9,500 patient study. A direct relationship was found between obesity and subclinical heart damage. Obese people with elevated troponin levels were nine times more likely to develop heart failure than people with normal weight and undetectable troponin levels.
People who were severely obese—those with a BMI above 35—had more than twice the risk of developing heart failure compared with people of normal weight. That risk rose incrementally with BMI, growing by 32 percent for every five-unit increase in BMI. For example, a 6-foot, 225-pound man with a BMI of 30 was 32 percent more likely to develop heart failure than a 6-foot, 188-pound man with a BMI of 25.
Most importantly for this thread, the elevated risk persisted even when investigators accounted for other possible causes of heart damage, including diabetes, hypertension, and high cholesterol.
So no, medical professionals are not wrong to weigh us, or focus on weight as a primary factor.0 -
sapphire1166 wrote: »sapphire1166 wrote: »Depends. I think if you're 150 lbs over your "normal" weight, there really isn't any way on earth you're healthy. But if you're a little over and exercise regularly, sure you can be healthy. When I was in high school, I was considered overweight by about 25/30 lbs. BUT I was on the track team (shot put and discus), was a 2nd degree black belt teaching 4 martial arts classes a week, and ran regularly. I was toned and athletic, but still felt insanely fat in my size 14 jeans. Looking back as an adult there's no doubt in my mind I was healthy despite being overweight, and this has helped me set realistic expectations for my weight loss this time around.
I think the matters is ask our self is what is the definition of healthy. I see by your definition that i wasn't healthy in your book, but not so long ago i was 300 lbs/150 lbs over weight and i didn't have any medical health issues, likeeee nothing, blood test, hormones, metabolic panel perfect, joints working perfectly.etc
So being healthy to you is define by the actual health condition of a person or by the potentially risk a person have to develop some medical health weight issue in the future?
I agree that there are very different definitions of "healthy". When I was 100 lbs overweight I didn't have any heart, blood pressure, joint, etc issues at all. On paper, other than my weight, I was "healthy". But I couldn't walk up 3 flights of stairs without being winded. I couldn't get up off the floor without using every limb of my body and holding on to something. I didn't have the energy to throw my kid up in the air and play for more than a minute at a time. So I considered myself unhealthy despite what blood tests showed.
I think of the bolded as quality of life issues and think they are important to factor in as well as labs test results.
Now that I'm under the weight at which I have knee "pain with activity" I'm pretty healthy, but my quality of life and overall health will continue to improve as I continue to lose weight and increase activity.
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My doctor told me about one of is other patients. This person was obese and had a poor diet. Yet when he sent them for a heart scan and looked at their cholesterol, the arteries were 100% clear of calcium and their cholesterol numbers were perfect.
It happens. Some do everything wrong and get away with it. Some do everything right and drop dead at 45. It's uncommon, but it happens.
Most people who dance will have to pay the piper. The smoking, salt and obesity...it catches up with most people in the end. You get decades of no penalties, but it doesn't last forever.0 -
Ohhhh 1) i dont try to act , i actually went to med school , did my 5 years and graduate so yes that actually qualifys me to write that sort of opinion cause i have the same degree than the "smarts people"
I'm not buying it.barbecuesauce wrote: »
Physicians serve the role of health advocates. In Canada the accreditation body for specialty medical training is the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons and their model of residency training is summarized in the CanMEDS roles, one of which is "Health Advocate." As an advocate for health you are responsible for advising your patients to quit doing harmful things - wear their seatbelt when driving, wear a helmet while cycling, stop smoking or drinking to excess and, yes, lose some weight if obese.
It is actually my JOB as a physician to encourage obese people to lose weight. Studies on smoking cessation prove beyond a doubt that a physician advising someone to quit smoking increases their likelihood of actually doing it. I've no reason to think that obesity is any different.
what is it that your are not buying it? That i went to med school, and that my daily job is well work as a physician? Ok im cool with that
About the other thing, Again i never said a physician should not advise, be concerned abouth their patients weight, encourage them to achieve their very best health, oh no you're wrong i fully agree with that, where i was going is how unfairly i've seing SOME overweight patients being take care of, and physicians gets so fixated in their weight issue that they miss other health issues, yes is my job to tell you to loose weight but yes is actually my.job to respect your decision and treat your illness if u decide to loose the weight or not.
I don't buy it either...being from Canada and having family who are doctors...
as for the bolded...I am just gonna say this...lose vs loose..i vs I, i've seen vs i've seeing...u vs you.
Hey steff lets make something clear i've being here for years and never had the necesity to prove anything to anybody, i quite the opposite act very quietly and have learn a lot from many people here, i dont go with "oh i went to med school i know it all, never once have donne that, the only reason i talked about is because someone post something about how i dare to talk about this subect when the real smart people are the physicians or something like that and was trying to make him understand where my opinion came from.
2) sorry if my ortography bothers you, you see i actually learn english by watching friends and everybody loves raymond, haven't got propper education,neither i consider my self bilingual but someone not so long ago, told me that it was agains the rules of mfp to make corrections in other people post about language mistakes, so thats why i take the adventure to post from time to time, but hey thanks! lesson learn on lose/ loose thing
3) what is it that you need to give me a little credit and actually stop making me appear like a liar, pictures of me, working in the hospital or my medical degree, will that do? and also how do you want it, by private message or you need it to be here public, i've never posted a single gif or picture but just for you stef i would learn.. please tell me since you show so much interest0 -
Ohhhh 1) i dont try to act , i actually went to med school , did my 5 years and graduate so yes that actually qualifys me to write that sort of opinion cause i have the same degree than the "smarts people"
I'm not buying it.barbecuesauce wrote: »
Physicians serve the role of health advocates. In Canada the accreditation body for specialty medical training is the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons and their model of residency training is summarized in the CanMEDS roles, one of which is "Health Advocate." As an advocate for health you are responsible for advising your patients to quit doing harmful things - wear their seatbelt when driving, wear a helmet while cycling, stop smoking or drinking to excess and, yes, lose some weight if obese.
It is actually my JOB as a physician to encourage obese people to lose weight. Studies on smoking cessation prove beyond a doubt that a physician advising someone to quit smoking increases their likelihood of actually doing it. I've no reason to think that obesity is any different.
what is it that your are not buying it? That i went to med school, and that my daily job is well work as a physician? Ok im cool with that
About the other thing, Again i never said a physician should not advise, be concerned abouth their patients weight, encourage them to achieve their very best health, oh no you're wrong i fully agree with that, where i was going is how unfairly i've seing SOME overweight patients being take care of, and physicians gets so fixated in their weight issue that they miss other health issues, yes is my job to tell you to loose weight but yes is actually my.job to respect your decision and treat your illness if u decide to loose the weight or not.
I don't buy it either...being from Canada and having family who are doctors...
as for the bolded...I am just gonna say this...lose vs loose..i vs I, i've seen vs i've seeing...u vs you.
Hey steff lets make something clear i've being here for years and never had the necesity to prove anything to anybody, i quite the opposite act very quietly and have learn a lot from many people here, i dont go with "oh i went to med school i know it all, never once have donne that, the only reason i talked about is because someone post something about how i dare to talk about this subect when the real smart people are the physicians or something like that and was trying to make him understand where my opinion came from.
2) sorry if my ortography bothers you, you see i actually learn english by watching friends and everybody loves raymond, haven't got propper education,neither i consider my self bilingual but someone not so long ago, told me that it was agains the rules of mfp to make corrections in other people post about language mistakes, so thats why i take the adventure to post from time to time, but hey thanks! lesson learn on lose/ loose thing
3) what is it that you need to give me a little credit and actually stop making me appear like a liar, pictures of me, working in the hospital or my medical degree, will that do? and also how do you want it, by private message or you need it to be here public, i've never posted a single gif or picture but just for you stef i would learn.. please tell me since you show so much interest
You can't prove it really so no reason even bring it up to be frank and no reason to be upset just pointing out a few things that make your claim a bit more dubious.
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Ohhhh 1) i dont try to act , i actually went to med school , did my 5 years and graduate so yes that actually qualifys me to write that sort of opinion cause i have the same degree than the "smarts people"
I'm not buying it.barbecuesauce wrote: »
Physicians serve the role of health advocates. In Canada the accreditation body for specialty medical training is the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons and their model of residency training is summarized in the CanMEDS roles, one of which is "Health Advocate." As an advocate for health you are responsible for advising your patients to quit doing harmful things - wear their seatbelt when driving, wear a helmet while cycling, stop smoking or drinking to excess and, yes, lose some weight if obese.
It is actually my JOB as a physician to encourage obese people to lose weight. Studies on smoking cessation prove beyond a doubt that a physician advising someone to quit smoking increases their likelihood of actually doing it. I've no reason to think that obesity is any different.
what is it that your are not buying it? That i went to med school, and that my daily job is well work as a physician? Ok im cool with that
About the other thing, Again i never said a physician should not advise, be concerned abouth their patients weight, encourage them to achieve their very best health, oh no you're wrong i fully agree with that, where i was going is how unfairly i've seing SOME overweight patients being take care of, and physicians gets so fixated in their weight issue that they miss other health issues, yes is my job to tell you to loose weight but yes is actually my.job to respect your decision and treat your illness if u decide to loose the weight or not.
I don't buy it either...being from Canada and having family who are doctors...
as for the bolded...I am just gonna say this...lose vs loose..i vs I, i've seen vs i've seeing...u vs you.
Hey steff lets make something clear i've being here for years and never had the necesity to prove anything to anybody, i quite the opposite act very quietly and have learn a lot from many people here, i dont go with "oh i went to med school i know it all, never once have donne that, the only reason i talked about is because someone post something about how i dare to talk about this subect when the real smart people are the physicians or something like that and was trying to make him understand where my opinion came from.
2) sorry if my ortography bothers you, you see i actually learn english by watching friends and everybody loves raymond, haven't got propper education,neither i consider my self bilingual but someone not so long ago, told me that it was agains the rules of mfp to make corrections in other people post about language mistakes, so thats why i take the adventure to post from time to time, but hey thanks! lesson learn on lose/ loose thing
3) what is it that you need to give me a little credit and actually stop making me appear like a liar, pictures of me, working in the hospital or my medical degree, will that do? and also how do you want it, by private message or you need it to be here public, i've never posted a single gif or picture but just for you stef i would learn.. please tell me since you show so much interest
You can't prove it really so no reason even bring it up to be frank and no reason to be upset just pointing out a few things that make your claim a bit more dubious.
I was not upset at all stef, have a nice rest of the day .0
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